PDA

View Full Version : can instances DO anything?



sadkkf
10-20-2014, 09:10 AM
I'm getting really frustrated with instances. A while back I posted a question about scattering rocks on a landscape and I can get it to work with physical geometry, but the RAM requirements are a bit steep for my PC.

Instances solve the memory problem, but they don't seem to work with anything else in LightWave. They don't respond well to bullet and I can't them to move at all with Sticky Surface.

Is there perhaps a way to create an array of instances, then displace them with a texture that mimics my landscape? I suppose I could also try particles, but I don't think they'll give me the shapes I'm looking for.

RebelHill
10-20-2014, 09:56 AM
Instances arent actual objects, which is why you cant use them with things like bullet or sticky... think of them more as "holograms/projections".

You can however use a texture to place them as you say, switch to the nodal control for instance distribution. Alternatively, you can use the raycast node to push them onto your geo itself, which is probably the preferred option.

sadkkf
10-20-2014, 10:11 AM
Instances arent actual objects, which is why you cant use them with things like bullet or sticky... think of them more as "holograms/projections".

You can however use a texture to place them as you say, switch to the nodal control for instance distribution. Alternatively, you can use the raycast node to push them onto your geo itself, which is probably the preferred option.

Holograms. That clears up a lot of things. Thanks!

I'll have a look at the raycast node. Also, I noted in this thread about carbon scatter (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?144042-Carbon-Scatter-2015) there's a python script that creates data from Vue's ecosystem. Although the script I found is incompatible with my version of Vue (11 Complete) I now know it's possible and can create some interesting opportunities.

jboudreau
10-20-2014, 10:49 AM
I'm getting really frustrated with instances. A while back I posted a question about scattering rocks on a landscape and I can get it to work with physical geometry, but the RAM requirements are a bit steep for my PC.

Instances solve the memory problem, but they don't seem to work with anything else in LightWave. They don't respond well to bullet and I can't them to move at all with Sticky Surface.

Is there perhaps a way to create an array of instances, then displace them with a texture that mimics my landscape? I suppose I could also try particles, but I don't think they'll give me the shapes I'm looking for.

Hi

Another way you can do it is by painting weight maps

1: Depending on how you created you terrain (Land) save your land as a transformed object.
2: Open up your transformed object in Modeler
3: Create a new weight Map for the land
4: Use the Airbrush and press the n on the keyboard to bring up the numerical panel
5: Set your radius by using the right mouse button and dragging
6: Set your Strength to 100% and your Weight Value to -100%
7: Set your top viewport to Weight Shade and paint the whole land scape which now should be blue in color
8: Set your Weight value now to 100% and paint on your land scape where you want your rocks to be. You should see an orange color when you paint
9: Save your object and bring your land back into Layout
10: Add instances to your land
11: add your rock model to the objects list
12: set your type to surface
13: make a gradiant from 0 to 100% in the weight texture channel

Your rocks should now be distributed around your land following where you painted your weight map

I've attached a scene file below to help you out

125137125139125138

Thanks,
Jason

CaptainMarlowe
10-20-2014, 11:54 AM
You can also use your ground object as a particle emitter itself (select object-surface in the nozzle option), set the same number of particles in the birth rate and the particles limit, and in the instance tab, use the particles to populate your rocks with variations. You can also modulate your particles distribution with a procedural textures.

sadkkf
10-20-2014, 02:28 PM
I really like these ideas! Thank you! Way better than mine.

Also, if anyone else is reading this, the Python support for any Vue versions below infinite are crap. Like most things, there are crazy restrictions. More and more I'm finding I don't like Vue because of the things it WON'T let me do.

Anyway, thank you!

prometheus
10-21-2014, 12:05 PM
check this page for placing of instances...last post on that page some screenshots....
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?139775-fast-placement-of-multiple-objects-%28-in-this-case-rocks-and-pebbles-%29&highlight=instances

instance based on different gradients or image maps or procedurals...

Greenlaw
10-21-2014, 01:02 PM
If you're using points as the emitter for your instances, you can animate the points using displacement, bones, flocking, 3rd Powers Lattice Deformer...almost anything. It might not be the most accurate result for collision and dynamics because, as noted above, you're not working with actual geometry, but in many cases the approximation with points may be good enough, especially if you're talking about animating a huge number of instances and fairly quick motions. (I've used it on a few movies this past year to animate tons of wiggly critters and space ships.)

For Dynamics, you can't use Bullet for instances/points because Bullet won't recognize points as individual parts. However, if you're clever about it, you can trick Bullet into doing it. For example, take a copy of your landscape and unweld the points--this will give you a parts object that can be affected by Bullet. Now, use this object to emit your instances, perhaps setting it to emit one instance per polygon (or you can randomize distribution a number of ways.) To speed things up, you might want to set the parts Shape for each polygon to Spheres or Boxes, depending on the effect you're going for. (Sorry if some of this sounds a little vague--I'm just throwing out a few suggestions to experiment with. The possibilities are actually endless.) As an alternative, you might also look into HardFX which can treat points as parts. Add some roughness to your collision objects for best results. (IMO, though Bullet is a bit more controllable and certainly more interactive.) Naturally, you'll want to set Lightwave to render just the instances and not the polygons that emit them.

Hope this helps. FWIW, I've had to use Lightwave Instances in almost every job this past year, sometimes animated with PFX, Flocking, or deformers, and they've usually worked out brilliantly for me.

G.

sadkkf
10-21-2014, 01:02 PM
check this page for placing of instances...last post on that page some screenshots....
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?139775-fast-placement-of-multiple-objects-%28-in-this-case-rocks-and-pebbles-%29&highlight=instances

instance based on different gradients or image maps or procedurals...

Love this! Thank you!

I'm also digging the video about Newton. Still no release date, but that video answers a lot of my questions about interactivity. It looks like a must-have.

sadkkf
10-21-2014, 01:43 PM
If you're using points as the emitter for your instances, you can animate the points using displacement, bones, flocking, 3rd Powers Lattice Deformer...almost anything. It might not be the most accurate result for collision and dynamics because, as noted above, you're not working with actual geometry, but in many cases the approximation with points may be good enough, especially if you're talking about animating a huge number of instances and fairly quick motions. (I've used it on a few movies this past year to animate tons of wiggly critters and space ships.)

For Dynamics, you can't use Bullet for instances/points because Bullet won't recognize points as individual parts. However, if you're clever about it, you can trick Bullet into doing it. For example, take a copy of your landscape and unweld the points--this will give you a parts objects that can be affected by Bullet. Now, use this object to emit your instances, perhaps setting it to emit one instance per polygon (or you can randomize distribution a number of ways.) To speed things up, you might want to set the parts Shape for each polygon to Spheres or Boxes, depending on the effect you're going for. (Sorry if some of this sounds a little vague--I'm just throwing out a few suggestions to experiment with. The possibilities are actually endless.) As an alternative, you might also look into HardFX which can treat points as parts. Add some roughness to your collision objects for best results. (IMO, though Bullet is a bit more controllable and certainly more interactive.) Naturally, you'll want to set Lightwave to render just the instances and not the polygons that emit them.

Hope this helps. FWIW, I've had to use Lightwave Instances in almost every job this past year, sometimes animated with PFX, Flocking, or deformers, and they've usually worked out brilliantly for me.

G.

Just saw this. Great info here. Thanks! I will need some time to experiment. This is a for-fun project so no deadline other than my own, which usually means dropping it altogether when a client asks for something.

BTW.. I grow my own peas and share them with my dog! :)

Greenlaw
10-21-2014, 02:00 PM
BTW.. I grow my own peas and share them with my dog! :)

One of my cats loves peas but they make him throw up. Unfortunately, my daughter keeps dropping them on the floor. :)