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Columbo24
10-18-2014, 05:20 PM
I need some help with hypervoxels. I'm doing a music video where I have to composite orbs into footage ala Phantasm. One will be discharging flames(See Pic-it's just a prototype).Problems
1.How can I create realistic fire coming out of flamethrower? I'm using a fireball preset but not realistic enough. Do I need a plug-in? Anyway to do this with hypervoxels?
2.When I have the orb move while the hypervoxel fireballs are emitting the fire starts bending unrealistically(it looks like a u-turn). How do I correct this?
3.I'm rendering it w/green background to use as a key. Can someone give me the specific steps to render this as an alpha channel instead of doing it like a green screen.
Thanks in advance

ernpchan
10-18-2014, 05:35 PM
The answer to 1 could be two fold. You could either get TurbulenceFD or continue to futz with the hypervoxel settings. I think it ends up being a combination of the hypertexture settings and particle count.

Hard to diagnose 2 without seeing what's happening.

The answer to 3 is to use an image format like png32 or tga32.

prometheus
10-18-2014, 06:03 PM
semi realistic perhaps...it will take you a long time before you can master hypervoxels to get something that resemble realistic flamethrower..
Your best best is to get TurbulenceFD , but if that is to costly? then you have to deal with the results and the time it takes to get there.

Perhaps check MrRids fire stuff, it also requires some post processing ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnzfeyc-bH4&index=64&list=UUhpxylkLlHmxBCbSqxoSNfA

wire of the particles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HHxy78Zx20&list=UUhpxylkLlHmxBCbSqxoSNfA

shrox
10-18-2014, 06:10 PM
Here is an old HV file that looks OK

125117

125118

spherical
10-19-2014, 02:00 AM
There's even a flamethrower scene in TFD demo content.

bazsa73
10-19-2014, 02:34 AM
Here is my version:
125121

cheers

tyrot
10-19-2014, 03:30 AM
bazsa73 - THIS is really AWESOME!

prometheus
10-19-2014, 09:51 AM
thanks for sharing baza73

Not sure though...the sample is made upon a black backround, maybe works fine if you should use that as a seperate render pass for comping? turning on a background and the colors are all white.

I think one could lower the hypertexture small power, lower thickness and make the contrast with minus values ..maybe -70%

I might work on that and add as a second version of it?

generally for more advanced realistic physics, as shown with Mr rids clip samples, you might want to have a child emitter for upgoing flames..and those particles will be spawned from the first emitter..
and for those not knowing, create a second emitter called up flames or something, parent it to the first emitter, and set nozzle to parent emitter.

Additional turbulence with a wind can be made..and group that wind in the same group as the up flames, so those are the only particles affected and not the main throwing emitter.

I would also consider using sprites instead.

Michael

prometheus
10-19-2014, 10:35 AM
Regarding alpha..

as I mentioned, if you import baza clip in after effects to be comped on live photage, it will not behave properly I think..it will turn out all white or you have to use screen as blending mode..and that will include what is rendered black in lightwave as transparent..and thus the fire itself will be a little transparent..so I donīt think thatīs a good idea.

I would correct the color in baza scene file ..maybe change the opacity settings so the color comes through against a gradient backdrop or image..and then you render it out as LWtga.32 ..not 24, the 32 format will save out the alpha baked in the tga file.

Once in after effects import it ..and choose ignore matte, and you will have your hypervoxels almost perfectly blended on top of you photage without the need to extract with any keying.

chikega
10-19-2014, 01:42 PM
I just rendered Bazsa73's sample scene which is very nice by the way. I changed the background color to another color, other than black, in this case, red in Effects>Compositing>Use Background Color. I saved the render as tga32. The alpha image looks good.


125127

chikega
10-19-2014, 02:00 PM
And then there is always Blender's Smoke and Fire.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeNPNOzIgTU

bazsa73
10-19-2014, 02:20 PM
I struggled a lot with HVs but I also tested Maya's fluids once for a dragon flame effect, just like this flame thrower thingy and Blender. Now I vote for Blender.
Nice video Chikega btw. Should spend more time on Blender again.
@Prometheus: I used flare2alpha plugin. Not that elegant maybe but could work. But I gave up on HVs, they are so old fashioned.
They need a big refurbish as it was told on these forums several times.

prometheus
10-19-2014, 02:50 PM
I was just about to mention blender too, so if one do not wish to do it completly in blender, it might be worth checking a camera matching from lw to blender and then just do the flames in blender....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUsDlnKiJTI



I agree with you bazsa....you wouldnīt really continue to mess with hypervoxels for fire stuff like this..one have to remember what you are compiting with..and that is fluids and you will fall short in most cases...exceptions could be hypervoxels for other
volumetric stuff..smoke trails..and maybe..just maybe explosive stuff in some areas, it has endured many space battle episodes with combination of stock video, but that is due to the nature of space explosive shots wich are quite different looking(or has been that is) than earth based explosions.

So fluid sim the fire definitly..in blende or turbulenceFD depending on what you can afford.
Houdini indie might be an option too perhaps and use the pyro tools in there.

jwiede
10-19-2014, 02:51 PM
Save yourself endless hassle, buy and learn TurbulenceFD, it's easily worth the price if you expect to do any number of smoke/flame-type FX in future. While semi-realistic flames are possible with hypervoxels given time and effort, it is much more efficient to use a fluids plugin like TurbulenceFD (iow, use the right tool for the task).

prometheus
10-19-2014, 02:57 PM
Funny to se Davidīs images as a sample on what you can do with hypervoxels in the product showcase...yes you can do that in a couple of years and late nightīs tweakings.

Check hypervoxels
https://www.lightwave3d.com/overview/

- - - Updated - - -


Save yourself endless hassle, buy and learn TurbulenceFD, it's easily worth the price if you expect to do any number of smoke/flame-type FX in future. While semi-realistic flames are possible with hypervoxels given time and effort, it is much more efficient to use a fluids plugin like TurbulenceFD (iow, use the right tool for the task).

Yes...and there is already a flame thrower sample in the content for turbulenceFD

tyrot
10-19-2014, 05:36 PM
blender's fire looks pretty hot! imho. ...

Hey John... just a question TurbulenceFD - for LW is at the same level with C4D plugin...?

ok one more question lately im trying to dive in VFX work (so much archviz melted my brain) i do not know where to invest my time...Blender? C4D? Houdini ..

prometheus
10-19-2014, 06:15 PM
blender's fire looks pretty hot! imho. ...

Hey John... just a question TurbulenceFD - for LW is at the same level with C4D plugin...?

ok one more question lately im trying to dive in VFX work (so much archviz melted my brain) i do not know where to invest my time...Blender? C4D? Houdini ..

Personally...It was some time I used the turbulenceFD demos, and I canīt compare against cinema4d first hand since I donīt have it, but last time I checked..the particle advection option wasnīt there for lightwave...and cinema4d has a dedicated
preview system for turbulenceFD...lightwave do not, and I believe VPR are not handling it as well as the cinema4d previewer.