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seghier
10-14-2014, 06:29 AM
Hello
i find this tutorial how to create bubbles / soap foam ; with 3dsmax
http://www.3dtotal.com/index_tutorial_detailed.php?id=1878

124975

can lightwave create that ?

Pensart
10-14-2014, 08:24 AM
Another approach?...
http://iaian7.com/lightwave/SoapFoamSurfacing

seghier
10-14-2014, 11:14 AM
thanks Pensart ; i find this tutorial but whrn i try to open the scene but a plugin was missing
with particles is better and more realistic

ernpchan
10-14-2014, 11:42 AM
What plugin does it say it's missing? The scene is probably using a 3rd party plugin.

seghier
10-14-2014, 12:17 PM
the plugin : DP_Bump2Normal
in the tutorial the designer
1- created particles from texture
2- used plugin for 3dsmax called : frost
FROST is a compound geometry object for 3ds Max that can be used to generate a single mesh from particles ....
can lightwave generate particles from texture ? and compound the result to single mesh ?

ernpchan
10-14-2014, 09:47 PM
Sounds like you're missing one of the dp plugins. http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/main_en.htm

seghier
10-15-2014, 04:40 AM
thanks ; i will try the plugins in the link
i tried create bubbles with spray points and : primitives --->more ---> Bubbles
i see under Numeric : spray points tool , Map and color but i can't add map !
any suggestion how to join this points or replace them with metaballs ? to create more realistic foam

seghier
10-16-2014, 09:23 PM
i try that
- create points with spray points
- construct : convert to metaballs than freeze
but the problem that all metaballs have the same size and we can't use gradient texture to controle the sizes

prometheus
10-17-2014, 09:53 AM
hey...

you donīt have to use convert to metaballs..simply send the points over to layout and add hypervoxels surface on them, they will be recognized without you turning them to particles..hvīs can be applied on particles or
any objects vertices or created point clusters, you can have random partice size in the hv panel, or use a fractal texture to control the hv blob size.

if you want you can use particles formed by a fractal texture, if you create a particle field you set that up with the particles birth rate, and choose an image or a fractal texture..so yes you can add a skull texture in the particles birth rate..and have the particles formed by that.

But you can also use a subdivided subpatch grid and add hypervoxels directly on to that, then in the hv tab ..in density or dissolve tab, add a fractal texture or image map and that way shape the hypervoxel density shape.

in a similar way you can use particle or points as the main distributor of instances, and when instance clones of bubbles you can use the points or particles to distribute the geometry, scaling is done in the instance tab..randomly or with textures or with advanced nodes.

prometheus
10-17-2014, 09:56 AM
There is a nice soab bubble sample in a thread somewhere...donīt know where though.

prometheus
10-17-2014, 10:00 AM
hereīs something with bubbles, not exactly what you want..but some things can be adapted, theres also a scenefile to download....
http://iaian7.com/lightwave/SoapFoamSurfacing

seghier
10-17-2014, 10:02 AM
thank you for the tips
i used metabals to join all particles on one shape ; can they joined if i follow your tips ?
i don't want use texture or displacement to create bubbles

prometheus
10-17-2014, 10:29 AM
I wasnīt refering to metaballs in modeler, and I think you can skip that, check this image..only particles and hvīs...
just a quick mockup so the surface of the bubbles arenīt properly done, for more advanced bubble look..you might want to use instancer instead and use a sphere for each instance.

texture you have to use to distribute the particles, displacement you do not have to use.

125086

seghier
10-17-2014, 10:43 AM
look good ; can we use instancer and use metaball for each instance ?

prometheus
10-17-2014, 11:23 AM
look good ; can we use instancer and use metaball for each instance ?

I havenīt tried instancing with metaballs, but to be clear...metaballs are often refere to as the metaball creation in modeler, you can use and create metaballs also in layout directly without using modeler on points without freezing them...and these are not to confuse with what I used in the image..which is hypervoxels..and that has nothing to do with metaballs...hvīs got a blending mode which can be said to be similar as metablending..butīs it is a different thing.

donīt think using instances and metaballs will work properly..and is of no real good use actually...but I have to check more about it.

hereīs a little more tweaking..the bubbles I added the fresnel shader in the hypervoxels shading tab...changed coffe surface to more black..also a fresnel shader in the surface tab.
I also added the fractal texture called flow noise in the color channel to get a little milky look in there too...I do prefer milk or whipped cream in my coffe in the mornings:)

added radiosity..a white color background is needed for the radiosity to pick up that as light emission, one area light with inversed 2 falloff...thatīs it.
I would still have to tweak the bubble shading a bit better and maybe flatten them out..if I got the passion for it that is.

The bubbles however are to spherical, and one might actually consider use instanced geometry instead that arenīt as sphericals..more slightly oval I thing.
the hardest part might be to get the intersection of bubbles to look realistic..which jwiede mentioned is a bit tricky to say at least.

Also each bubble in the original sample you showed is looking much better than mine..and I would have to add the coffe light brown color at the edge of each bubble to have it better looking.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125089&d=1413566437

seghier
10-17-2014, 11:41 AM
good result ; the problem is with intersection between spheres
for this reason the designer in the tutorial used frost
" he hardest part might be to get the intersection of bubbles to look realistic. " metablls or plugin like frost or boolean can solve the problem of intersection

- - - Updated - - -

good result ; the problem is with intersection between spheres
for this reason the designer in the tutorial used frost
" he hardest part might be to get the intersection of bubbles to look realistic. " metablls or plugin like frost or boolean can solve the problem of intersection

prometheus
10-17-2014, 11:58 AM
metaballs blending with modeler metaballs ...or using hypervoxels only blends particles or the shape with a smooth surface tension...intersection between real bubbles are somewhat different and do not have that smooth blending shape..so in my case
it wasnīt worth having blending on..since it simply just makes the shapes blend together in a way you do not want.
bubbles intersect and when they do they adapt hexagon shape in the intersection..while keeping the overall round spherical bubble shape..and the intersection is not a smooth blending such as metaball or hypervoxels do when blending.

so how frost handles that..I donīt know...not sure...but maybe the boolean shader from dponīt might help..not sure , would have to try...
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/nodes/Additionnal_Nodes_2.html

prometheus
10-17-2014, 12:15 PM
a method would be to actually create each bubble individually or array them, creating the bubble with platonic dodecahedron, and bridge the shapes together, that bridge can be set to have a sharpness..if you use catmull clark subpatches..
and if you turn those to subpatches..they will get spherical..while the intersection and bridge will be sharp and thus maintaining the dodecahedron shape while the rest is more spherical.

seghier
10-17-2014, 07:38 PM
i will try ; but first i will learn more to understand lightwave :)
i like this work : http://www.digitalartserved.com/gallery/Bubble-Earth/9353093

prometheus
10-17-2014, 07:48 PM
i will try ; but first i will learn more to understand lightwave :)
i like this work : http://www.digitalartserved.com/gallery/Bubble-Earth/9353093

Ok..that image donīt show any advanced intersections between bubbles, so you can probably quite easy do that image with lightwave too, but donīt use hypervoxels surfaces, I say that because of hypervoxels not having acess to all materials in the
node editor such as dielectric or other special materials.

You can acheive similar by adding a sphere, properly subpatched, and add another sphere to instance it on to the surface of the first sphere(it could be enough with one sphere if you want them with the same surface.
with instances you can control the size offset and weight distribution as you want..with images or weight maps.
the rest is lighting and setting a good material for it.

seghier
10-17-2014, 08:14 PM
thank you ; nice tips :) ; i will try all that to get the best result

jwiede
10-17-2014, 08:24 PM
As long as you don't have to deal with bubbles in their "attached" state, that'll work fine. The second you have to deal with attached bubbles you're back to the geometry issue we discussed in the other thread. Even metaballs aren't going to solve the "attached bubbles" issue, unfortunately. It would be best for you to ensure there's some minor spacing between the "visible bubbles" (which can be filled with the more foamy/subvisible bubbles).

seghier
10-18-2014, 03:31 AM
thanks; can ligtwave create particles with collision between them
i tried something like that with script "molecular" in blender

prometheus
10-18-2014, 09:07 AM
thanks; can ligtwave create particles with collision between them
i tried something like that with script "molecular" in blender

yes..in the fx emitters interaction tab..self interaction where you can choose some different types in the drop down list..it is however slow to use if you use a huge amount of particles a la fluid style, for minor set of particles it should be fine.
you might wanīt to consider trying bullet dynamics for more realistic interactions between bodies.

you would probably need to go to particle size in the fx emitters particle tab...turn up particle size and also check show size to see how the effect radius will be.

And important...you canīt just hit the play key, you have to calculate them..

prometheus
10-18-2014, 02:17 PM
hereīs an interesting blob and particle tutorial from kevman, not exactly on topic..but could be useful for you at some point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynmkSnJmvM0&list=UUzELl2ilPaYQRcxrht9sqvw&index=11

seghier
10-18-2014, 06:29 PM
many thanks prometheus ; i will try that