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Megalodon2.0
10-14-2014, 12:23 AM
I don't know if this has been covered here before - and this IS from this past September 29th - but I thought this might be interesting. Looks like the REAL "cloud" may be here sooner than expected?

http://www.thestreet.com/story/12895634/1/one-reason-adobe-systems-adbe-stock-is-up-today.html

"NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Shares of Adobe Systems Inc (ADBE) are up 1.53% to $69.40 in late afternoon trading after the company partnered with Google (GOOGL) to provide Creative Cloud for Chromebooks. A streaming version of Adobe's photo editing software, Photoshop will be available with a paid Creative Cloud membership, and is designed to run straight from the cloud to the Chromebook. A streaming version allows Google to reach users without high-end hardware."

(Adobe stock price has dropped considerably since that announcement - down to under $62.)

-------------------

Highlights from the analysis by TheStreet Ratings Team goes as follows:

- ADBE's revenue growth trails the industry average of 11.5%. Since the same quarter one year prior, revenues slightly increased by 1.0%. This growth in revenue does not appear to have trickled down to the company's bottom line, displayed by a decline in earnings per share.

- ADBE's debt-to-equity ratio is very low at 0.22 and is currently below that of the industry average, implying that there has been very successful management of debt levels. To add to this, ADBE has a quick ratio of 1.80, which demonstrates the ability of the company to cover short-term liquidity needs.

- Compared to its closing price of one year ago, ADBE's share price has jumped by 30.53%, exceeding the performance of the broader market during that same time frame. Setting our sights on the months ahead, however, we feel that the stock's sharp appreciation over the last year has driven it to a price level which is now relatively expensive compared to the rest of its industry. The implication is that its reduced upside potential is not good enough to warrant further investment at this time.

- The company, on the basis of change in net income from the same quarter one year ago, has significantly underperformed when compared to that of the S&P 500 and the Software industry. The net income has significantly decreased by 46.2% when compared to the same quarter one year ago, falling from $83.00 million to $44.69 million.

- The company's current return on equity has slightly decreased from the same quarter one year prior. This implies a minor weakness in the organization. Compared to other companies in the Software industry and the overall market, ADOBE SYSTEMS INC's return on equity significantly trails that of both the industry average and the S&P 500.

spherical
10-14-2014, 02:59 AM
A streaming version of Adobe's photo editing software, Photoshop will be available with a paid Creative Cloud membership, and is designed to run straight from the cloud to the Chromebook. A streaming version allows Google to reach users without high-end hardware."

Heh, if you've been in this Universe for any appreciable amount of computing time, you'll recognize this iteration of the Emperor's New Clothes as a single point of failure. Of course, if you don't understand statistics, physics and general common sense, you deserve what you eventually get. (Not YOU, Megalodon2.0, I mean the collective "you".)

Rayek
10-18-2014, 12:31 AM
Well, there goes the neighbourhood.

GandB
10-24-2014, 01:51 PM
Don't know if this is related; but apparently people are being charged differently, depending on what browser they're using:

http://www.creativebloq.com/adobe/designers-speak-out-adobe-pricing-101413297

JamesCurtis
10-24-2014, 02:23 PM
All I have to say is "Lotta nerve Adobe!!"

I'm not a subscriber, and this is one of the reasons!!

Megalodon2.0
10-24-2014, 04:21 PM
As much as I hate to say it, this is what users get for grabbing their ankles and saying "thank you, may I have another" without fighting against Adobe. Accepting this VERY BAD move of only being able to rent your software will hurt everyone - and here is yet another example of how the corporation Adobe screws over people. They will of course most likely do something about this in order to quell the anger and many people will just accept it and move on AGAIN. But I hope that there will be people who will now stop subscribing and look into other software. Rental-only saoftware needs to be stopped ASAP. It can happen, but only if people stop acquiescing and show some backbone AND foresight.

lightscape
10-29-2014, 08:31 PM
As I see it, there are four types of people.

1. Those who have no choice to use Adobe CC since they work with others who use CC.
2. Those who won't rent their software.
3. Those who have no idea what the ramifications of supporting Adobe will do.
4. Those who don't care at all.

You forgot the people who want to rent so they don't have to pay a hefty upgrade price every one or two years or pay the full price when the window for upgrades has lapsed.

People aren't rolling over as you said. In some cases its just better to rent.
Someone who's wants to work in other facilities around the world and experience the lifestyle, its better for them to rent.
You wouldn't buy an apartment in london if you plan to stay there only for 5 years. I know most artists(midwest people) don't travel away from their home town and stay a secluded lifestyle but others really want to experience what the world has to offer while they can.
Would I rent a ferrari if I can? Hell yeah and get the new model after two years after that to drive it crazy for the next two years.
Some people might think software is forever but I personally wouldn't go back to using windows xp and old versions of adobe and lightwave and old hardware. What I paid for them I already got back. I don't need to own it forever.
Those who want to have their choice to do so. Let them keep those boxes of cds and dvd software gathering dust. I will use the cloud version.

Megalodon2.0
10-29-2014, 09:23 PM
You forgot the people who want to rent so they don't have to pay a hefty upgrade price every one or two years or pay the full price when the window for upgrades has lapsed.

People aren't rolling over as you said. In some cases its just better to rent.
Someone who's wants to work in other facilities around the world and experience the lifestyle, its better for them to rent.
You wouldn't buy an apartment in london if you plan to stay there only for 5 years. I know most artists(midwest people) don't travel away from their home town and stay a secluded lifestyle but others really want to experience what the world has to offer while they can.
Would I rent a ferrari if I can? Hell yeah and get the new model after two years after that to drive it crazy for the next two years.
Some people might think software is forever but I personally wouldn't go back to using windows xp and old versions of adobe and lightwave and old hardware. What I paid for them I already got back. I don't need to own it forever.
Those who want to have their choice to do so. Let them keep those boxes of cds and dvd software gathering dust. I will use the cloud version.

Oh Jesus H.....


Would you TRY to get this through your head... please?

We don't care that you CAN rent the software. We care that you can't OWN. Got it? It's about CHOICE. Check out the AD thread and see what AD people are saying about the same thing. They don't like having choice REMOVED. GOT IT?

And please don't try to make the analogy between renting an apartment and renting software. When you stop renting your apartment, you aren't locked out of using your furniture. When you stop renting your software, you can't open or edit the files YOU created. We're not talking about JUST PS here. There is After Effects, Premiere, InDesign, etc. Check out the Adobe forums and see how "easy" it is to change them into formats that can be easily opened in other programs. People who have used these programs for a LONG time know that it is not easy - and sometimes impossible.

Please, please, PLEASE try to understand. Rental is GOOD. Rental ONLY is BADDDD. Have you finally got it?


Some people might think software is forever but I personally wouldn't go back to using windows xp and old versions of adobe and lightwave and old hardware.

So? That's YOU. It's not EVERYONE. Jesus. I still run a few WinXP machines AND LW5.5 - primarily for the proprietary plugins we use for modeling using Lscript. And guess what? It works GREAT. And it works that way because I OWN the licenses of my software. If Adobe gave everyone the CHOICE to own or rent - as they did for an entire year alongside of BUYING CS6 - there would be no problems. The point is - just because YOU are okay with it does not mean the rest of humanity is.

3D Kiwi
10-29-2014, 11:08 PM
Well i for one am glad Adobe did what they did. It was going to cost me over 6k to get into there master collection or what ever it was called compared to $600 for a year of CC. Its going to take me over 10 years to spend the same on CC that I would have done if I owned a licence. That dosnt include upgrades either.

One thing I think is good about going rental only is most people will now be on the same version. So when working with other studios or freelancers etc you can interchange files well.

Adobe has done a pretty good job of going rental I think. Tho i belive Autodesk will screw it up.

Ernest
10-29-2014, 11:52 PM
Well i for one am glad Adobe did what they did. It was going to cost me over 6k to get into there master collection or what ever it was called compared to $600 for a year of CC.

No. It would have cost you $600 a year for CC, because CC rental was the same price before they removed our option to purchase.
And it does make more sense in the case of you guys who need the entire master collection; but there are very few of you.


One thing I think is good about going rental only is most people will now be on the same version.

Not us. Most definitely not us. None of the studios we collaborate with regularly have moved from cs6 either. It's intentional. We do hope to get our options back by not paying until they do.


You forgot the people who want to rent so they don't have to pay a hefty upgrade price every one or two years

But you paid for those upgrades because they had new features you wanted. This forced Adobe to create exciting new features every year. Exciting and useful enough to entice people to pay those hefty upgrade prices. Now you pay them every year for the same thing. If it makes more financial sense to take a year or two off from researching and developing new features, you're still paying. It's not really about how much you pay. It's more about the progress of our exciting field and of the human civilization. And how Adobe and now possibly AD, having become enough of a monopoly not to have to worry about external competition, are turning off the last torch under their feet that kept forcing them to invest and invest ever more in new features.

Megalodon2.0
10-29-2014, 11:53 PM
Well i for one am glad Adobe did what they did. It was going to cost me over 6k to get into there master collection or what ever it was called compared to $600 for a year of CC. Its going to take me over 10 years to spend the same on CC that I would have done if I owned a licence. That dosnt include upgrades either.

One thing I think is good about going rental only is most people will now be on the same version. So when working with other studios or freelancers etc you can interchange files well.

Adobe has done a pretty good job of going rental I think. Tho i belive Autodesk will screw it up.

Glad you can make the assessment for ALL of us.

And once again, people have no idea what they are talking about. Everyone is NOT on the same version because they can decide if they want to update or NOT. This is just like so many people saying the CC will stop piracy when it does no such thing. You can see on the Adobe forums that oftentimes there are problems with newer versions - and even JUST the ability to update - and MANY ask how they can move back to the previous version that worked.

ANYONE who thinks that removing choice is a "good thing" is not FOR the consumer, but rather FOR the corporation. Quite sad actually.

Megalodon2.0
10-29-2014, 11:56 PM
Not us. Most definitely not us. None of the studios we collaborate with regularly have moved from cs6 either. It's intentional. We do hope to get our options back by not paying until they do.

But you paid for those upgrades because they had new features you wanted. This forced Adobe to create exciting new features every year. Exciting and useful enough to entice people to pay those hefty upgrade prices. Now you pay them every year for the same thing. If it makes more financial sense to take a year or two off from researching and developing new features, you're still paying. It's not really about how much you pay. It's more about the progress of our exciting field and of the human civilization. And how Adobe and now possibly AD, having become enough of a monopoly not to have to worry about external competition, are turning off the last torch under their feet that kept forcing them to invest and invest ever more in new features.

I salute you sir - well said, AND well informed. :bowdown:

lightscape
10-30-2014, 01:38 AM
Oh Jesus H.....


Would you TRY to get this through your head... please?

We don't care that you CAN rent the software. We care that you can't OWN. Got it? It's about CHOICE. Check out the AD thread and see what AD people are saying about the same thing. They don't like having choice REMOVED. GOT IT?

And please don't try to make the analogy between renting an apartment and renting software. When you stop renting your apartment, you aren't locked out of using your furniture. When you stop renting your software, you can't open or edit the files YOU created. We're not talking about JUST PS here. There is After Effects, Premiere, InDesign, etc. Check out the Adobe forums and see how "easy" it is to change them into formats that can be easily opened in other programs. People who have used these programs for a LONG time know that it is not easy - and sometimes impossible.

Please, please, PLEASE try to understand. Rental is GOOD. Rental ONLY is BADDDD. Have you finally got it?



So? That's YOU. It's not EVERYONE. Jesus. I still run a few WinXP machines AND LW5.5 - primarily for the proprietary plugins we use for modeling using Lscript. And guess what? It works GREAT. And it works that way because I OWN the licenses of my software. If Adobe gave everyone the CHOICE to own or rent - as they did for an entire year alongside of BUYING CS6 - there would be no problems. The point is - just because YOU are okay with it does not mean the rest of humanity is.

Oh Jesus H.....
Its not your choice to make for them since you don't own Adobe. Lol.
Its not for you to dictate that they can't make it rental. Got it?
People who had their choice removed as you say can use another software. That's why its called CHOICE.
And yes its ME because we're talking about my needs and people who have the same needs as ME.
YOU are voicing out YOUR own needs. Its not EVERYONES either. I'm laughing so hard now.
Do you get that there's always another side that doesn't agree with you? You don't speak for the rest of HUMANITY either. Lol

lightscape
10-30-2014, 01:52 AM
But you paid for those upgrades because they had new features you wanted. This forced Adobe to create exciting new features every year. Exciting and useful enough to entice people to pay those hefty upgrade prices. Now you pay them every year for the same thing. If it makes more financial sense to take a year or two off from researching and developing new features, you're still paying. It's not really about how much you pay. It's more about the progress of our exciting field and of the human civilization. And how Adobe and now possibly AD, having become enough of a monopoly not to have to worry about external competition, are turning off the last torch under their feet that kept forcing them to invest and invest ever more in new features.

I paid for lightwave 10, 11 because it had features that would pay for itself in 2 projects. I don't really see myself using lw 9 so what is it to me? Nothing, its a dongle and bunch of cds. Do I want to go back to windowsxp? Nope. You can't even install it on new hardware nowadays its obsolete kernel. There are people who exist that don't want to use windows xp and lw 9. :D
If anyone thinks that adobe or autodesk is not improving their releases then stick to the perpetual licenses. Nobody is stopping anybody there.
To complain, like a broken record, about the rental scheme for software that is apparently not worth it because of lack of improvement is kind of ironic.
But not all rental will work for all companies ofcourse, I wouldn't rent software that's not proven, not a market leader, or badly managed, or not worth it. Newtek doing this kind of scheme would be a deathblow to lightwave.

Ernest
10-30-2014, 02:15 AM
If anyone thinks that adobe or autodesk is not improving their releases then stick to the perpetual licenses. Nobody is stopping anybody there.

Well, that's what we're doing, of course. But that's not the point.
The point is that we -want- exciting, surprising, useful (and expensive to develop) new features to be added.
If the company gets the same amount of money every year by releasing the same software as last year or by investing heavily in developing new features, the progress of the best tools in our industry is going to slow to a crawl (as it has).
We want to pay for a constant stream of new features that allow us to achieve artistic results that used to be impossible or insanely labor-intensive; we don't want to save our money because there is nothing worth paying for.

Of course, this doesn't mean anything for Adobe. They're not in the business to fulfill our passions, but to make money. So all we can do as individual users is to not give them money until they start fulfilling our passions again.

erikals
10-30-2014, 02:56 AM
Please, please, PLEASE try to understand. Rental is GOOD. Rental ONLY is BAD.

agree,
wonder how many of us that are in this group... 20% ? 15% ?

Megalodon2.0
10-30-2014, 10:44 AM
Oh Jesus H.....
Its not your choice to make for them since you don't own Adobe. Lol.
Its not for you to dictate that they can't make it rental. Got it?
People who had their choice removed as you say can use another software. That's why its called CHOICE.
And yes its ME because we're talking about my needs and people who have the same needs as ME.
YOU are voicing out YOUR own needs. Its not EVERYONES either. I'm laughing so hard now.
Do you get that there's always another side that doesn't agree with you? You don't speak for the rest of HUMANITY either. Lol

Yeah, there is another side that disagrees. Adobe has stated in their year end reports - during the CS era - that there were 15 million CS6 users. And there are currently what... just over 3 million CC users. I'd say that MOST are not jumping on that bandwagon. And if you were to get out of your little world, you would see that over at the Adobe forums (and other places) that there is still a LARGE band of professionals that don't like CC and will not subscribe. The FACT that they've had to have sale after sale after sale JUST to get their subscription numbers up is VERY telling. But I don't suppose you look at that because you'd rather bend over and say thank you to Adobe.


You can't even install it on new hardware nowadays its obsolete kernel. There are people who exist that don't want to use windows xp and lw 9.

And yet.... there are people who DO. And I don't know what you're talking about, but I've got WinXP 32 bit on a relatively new i5 machine. Works fine. I don't know where you get your information, but you're obviously WRONG.




agree,
wonder how many of us that are in this group... 20% ? 15% ?

As I said just above concerning the CS and CC numbers, I'd say it's quite a bit more than 20%. If the majority of users HAD jumped on CC then Adobe would not still be having so many sales AND their revenue would be much higher than it is. Their revenue is DOWN from last year AND the year before - which is WHY they are having these sales. They need their subscriber numbers UP to show Wallstreet that everything is going "as planned," even when it's not. This is not over, not by a longshot. But there are those who can't seem to comprehend that having the CHOICE to own or rent is paramount. And those who say "but you do have a choice, to buy or not to buy" is a false choice and everyone knows that.

erikals
10-30-2014, 11:39 AM
yeah, just bought PhotoShop CS3 btw, made more sense...

considering After Effects CS3 or so, we'll see... but no CC

no fan of monopoly and ultimatums...

Megalodon2.0
10-30-2014, 03:13 PM
yeah, just bought PhotoShop CS3 btw, made more sense...

considering After Effects CS3 or so, we'll see... but no CC

no fan of monopoly and ultimatums...

I've got Production Premium CS4 and InDesignCS5.5 - both work just fine.

I was going to upgrade in 2012 to Production Premium CS6 since Adobe had said that you MUST be only one version behind in order to upgrade to CS7 when it arrives. And LOTS of people did - I couldn't because I just didn't have the money. And then come May of 2013 they said no CS7 and only CC. LOTS of people were VERY upset that they'd essentially been lied to about CS7. But then these companies really don't care about their customers, only their shareholders. That's why they have forever lost me as a customer - even IF they bring back perpetual licenses.

Anyway... I've have Win7 running for MANY years to come so my CS4 will be working just fine. :)

erikals
10-30-2014, 03:37 PM
hah, i'd be quite furious if that happened...http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

i think you can upgrade from CS4 to CS6 on ebay though (?)

Megalodon2.0
10-30-2014, 04:02 PM
hah, i'd be quite furious if that happened...http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

i think you can upgrade from CS4 to CS6 on ebay though (?)

I don't think that there would be a problem upgrading to CS6 from CS4 or even earlier. But with Adobe now... who knows. I only fight this because a win for Adobe will affect the industry. If they lose, we'll ALL be better off. :thumbsup:

spherical
10-30-2014, 06:26 PM
We upgraded from CS2 to CS5.5 on two boxes and up to CS6 on one but, the CS6 needed at least CS3 to read, so the 5.5 satisfied that.

Megalodon2.0
10-30-2014, 07:19 PM
I've been against this Adobe rental-only software delivery since the beginning. I've said MANY times that if Adobe wins, how would you like to rent ALL of your software? Imagine renting everything from your OS to small apps.

Someone on this forum (can't remember what thread it was) had stated that they didn't believe the operating system would go subscription. Well... guess again, looks like Windows is heading directly in that direction:

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-10-may-be-the-last-piece-of-microsofts-cloud-puzzle-7000034349/

If you don't care or don't mind renting all of your software so that when you stop paying you can't open and edit your files properly... keep renting Adobe. ONLY if Adobe crashes and burns (along with AD) will any company rethink this SAAS. Just like the person who thought that OS's wouldn't end up going subscription... it WILL happen unless consumers stand up and say NO.

Riff_Masteroff
10-30-2014, 10:24 PM
Agreed. And also I operate my workstation computer with the CAT6 cable unplugged. I use a lesser computer for internet. Have stand alone versions of LW, Fusion and PhotoLine.

A rental OS would mean that I would have to open my workflow to all manner of predators. And from what I hear, they can be very nasty indeed. My trust, to be honest, is just not there. At this moment, being retired, using computers is an option. Therefore, a rental OS might be reason in itself to give up LightWave.