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shrox
10-08-2014, 07:44 PM
Tomorrow at 1:00PM PST the movie "Mars Underground" is on, and it features some of my work. It's on Pivot TV, 260 on our local Suddenlink cable. I did some of the near future stuff. I was all proud then, but now I could do better...

It's also on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7_UujsP9PA

jeric_synergy
10-08-2014, 10:37 PM
B5 meets M.E. --Not that there's anything wrong with that.

shrox
10-08-2014, 10:43 PM
B5 meets M.E. --Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I didn't do those scenes, I did some of the "early settlement" stuff.

dickbill
10-09-2014, 03:44 PM
can you indicate the time in the video?

dickbill
10-09-2014, 03:53 PM
Ah ah, the smirk on McCain's face, watching Zubrin, 'this guy is completely cucoo'.
Too bad Zubrin's voice is too high pitch. That doesn't help. First time I heard him I noticed that. I wonder if Zubrin had been Russian, his project might have been selected by Putin, 'to show the decadent west what Mother Russia is capable of doing'.

prometheus
10-09-2014, 07:36 PM
Dragons where fantasy freaks of the unknown in past adventures travels, and this guy is putting the very real dangers and what we in fact know will be a hazard of the travels as synonyms to that? that is a little cuckoo I think.
Comparing that with the fears we have today regarding the dangers are a little off.

Even though I very much would like to see men start to work on mars and get back in my lifetime, I am not sure that is the best route or this is the time to start it, when robots are so sofisticated that they can do much stuff for themself...then send a rocket there, let it build some complex modules, then take a rocket back and land safely back on earth, all without any hazard of putting men there the first time, if itīs a success, fine...letīs go there.

when Arnold Schwarzenegger is running out of work here on earth, just put him on a rocket with a cigarr and it will all be fine, I think I saw somewhere that he wanted to go to mars. :)

Exactly where in the clip is your work shrox?

What will be the most hazardly moment here?
1.The start
2.The journey there
3.The landing on mars
4.The stay
5.The return home, launch from mars
6.The journey back home
7.The landing on earth

shrox
10-09-2014, 07:48 PM
Looks like models only, a rover, a lander and a base. I guess they moved the camera perhaps, as three scenes look like mine, but from a different angle.

124878

prometheus
10-09-2014, 08:01 PM
2020..is the aproximation from this lead presenter, I would be shocked if someone manage to get out there at that point in time.
2026 is my guess as earliest..maybe, but not around 5 years from now.

shrox
10-09-2014, 08:25 PM
I don't think anyone will be going to Mars in the next 50 years. Trouble here will take precedent.

dickbill
10-09-2014, 10:31 PM
"Trouble here will take precedent."
what's that mean, you doin philosophy now?
or everybody drunk?

shrox
10-09-2014, 11:05 PM
"Trouble here will take precedent."
what's that mean, you doin philosophy now?
or everybody drunk?

Now? I have always been an artist/philosopher/mad scientist...

bazsa73
10-10-2014, 05:35 AM
Would be nice to see it on this side of our globe too.

prometheus
10-10-2014, 09:43 AM
shrox is no drunk...his the rocket man( Elton john,or kate bush singing in the backround)

Personally I donīt think the resources and technology will be at hand until earliest 10 years from know...if even then.
another 5 years to count in before different governments or private companies improves of the plans and can afford it.
and maybe another 5 years to build.

20 years ...thatīs what I suspect, 50 years..well thatīs a half century, I donīt think it will take that long...but shrox needs to get his rockets in earth orbit as soon as possible:)
the point of when? might be more relative to the truth, in terms of when the dice actually gets rolling, that is if the plans will be approved by the us congress or a huge company or some other country...or
perhaps the european space agency.
Once that decision is made, the I think it will be easier to determine or aproximate when we might get there.

Iīm no expert so this will only serve as fun trivia to look back to when and if we get there, so I can go back and say, see ...I told you so.

now...what computer system will run on board the journey vessel, and will it be windows 12 or lightwave 2000, linux?

zapper1998
10-10-2014, 11:16 AM
so cool Shrox

Cool

:)

zapper1998
10-10-2014, 11:20 AM
Humans on mars, cool idea..
Long trip...
expensive trip...
they need a big ship with lots and lots of food.
lots and lots of oxygen...

very very very big ship...

they better start building it up in orbit now... or it will cost way way to much..

jeric_synergy
10-10-2014, 12:02 PM
Certainly getting a bunch of stuff on the surface of Mars FIRST is a good idea.

C'monnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, robots!

shrox
10-10-2014, 12:23 PM
It's all robots on Mars now! I just think that the world will go Mad Max first, then Star Trek.

bazsa73
10-10-2014, 12:40 PM
Humans on mars, cool idea..
Long trip...
expensive trip...
they need a big ship with lots and lots of food.
lots and lots of oxygen...

very very very big ship...

they better start building it up in orbit now... or it will cost way way to much..

Big is not enough, there is constant cosmic radiation which destroys your cells so when you get out of the ship you
are a cancerous monstrosity. Cool comics idea btw.

shrox
10-10-2014, 12:54 PM
Big is not enough, there is constant cosmic radiation which destroys your cells so when you get out of the ship you
are a cancerous monstrosity. Cool comics idea btw.

Go underground for shielding from the elements. I just think an attempt like Mars One will end in disaster for the crew. A rescue or medical evacuation from the Moon is feasible, but not from Mars.

prometheus
10-10-2014, 12:59 PM
Humans on mars, cool idea..
Long trip...
expensive trip...
they need a big ship with lots and lots of food.
lots and lots of oxygen...


very very very big ship...

they better start building it up in orbit now... or it will cost way way to much..


I have a solution for this...but it will take some time, it will require for our scienctist and our politics and foremost ourself...to accept the project of "shrinking humans"
With some genetic changes...it will evenually lead to humans being the size of a few centimeters, and we can survive on less food and less oxygen, the danger though will be to face all other animals on this planet meanwhile, those bug will turn in to huge monsters, we might need fight against.
But all in all it will allow us to save on the earth resources overall and not only for this project, a question will arise though...will we shrink our Iq by doing so :) or other important things. :)

prometheus
10-10-2014, 01:04 PM
Go underground for shielding from the elements. I just think an attempt like Mars One will end in disaster for the crew. A rescue or medical evacuation from the Moon is feasible, but not from Mars.

I agree with you on that..It probably will be casualties.

dickbill
10-10-2014, 02:01 PM
Radiations are high it's true, but astronauts can freeze some of their own blood cells and bone marrow BEFORE the trip to space, and bring it with them under good radiation protection. A complete blood transfusion and reseeding with their own backup cells should be doable in a small medical facility on Mars.

dickbill
10-10-2014, 02:26 PM
Go underground for shielding from the elements. I just think an attempt like Mars One will end in disaster for the crew. A rescue or medical evacuation from the Moon is feasible, but not from Mars.

Hmmm, why? Zubrin's idea is to have a hab on Mars Before the arrival of the human crew. It is likely that this hab will be tested for months for oxygen and propellant production, in situ. So if the HAB can produce oxygen for several months automatically with no problems, and the crew arrives later with a backup HAB, it would be very bad luck that it fails to do so with humans on board.
In fact the crew can arrive with several different systems for oxygen production, chemical, water electrolysis if the landing site is near underground ice, which is almost a prerequisite anyways and in fact, if I recall the Viking lander experiments, Oxygen was released by some martian soil when it was watered.
Certainly the presence of water/ice easily accessible is a key requirement for a long duration stay.
I doubt very much all these systems would fail at once.
Now the propellant for the return, this issue is somehow more tricky. Zubrin wants to bring some Hydrogen to start a Sabatier reactor to synthetize methane, which then will be used with oxygen. Z has shown such a reactor can work on Earth and perhaps soon in Martian conditions, so isn't the problem resolved?

Assuming the crew will be screened for any health problem before launch, that should work. A major disaster is still possible, as on Earth anyways , but you can't ask that the crew should be safer on Mars than they would be on Earth.

Davewriter
10-10-2014, 07:54 PM
Shrox - I'm afraid I have to agree with you. We just lost the Magic somewhere. For being a society so in love with anything Star Wars or Star Trek, surprisingly few give a rip about us doing anything in space. Hey, I'd volunteer in a minute to go to Mars. Even if I knew it would only be a one-way ticket. Just for the thrill of being there.

dickbill
10-10-2014, 08:12 PM
...beside, if I recall some not-too-publicized reports, the Apollo missions on the Moon were not given much better chances of survival than 50% initially. It's only when they got more involved in the project than the chances improved. The moral of the story is that you have to start somewhere.

prometheus
10-10-2014, 08:31 PM
Shrox - I'm afraid I have to agree with you. We just lost the Magic somewhere. For being a society so in love with anything Star Wars or Star Trek, surprisingly few give a rip about us doing anything in space. Hey, I'd volunteer in a minute to go to Mars. Even if I knew it would only be a one-way ticket. Just for the thrill of being there.

Huhh..I wouldnīt volunteer for the life of me, even though I have been a space fan since I was a kid, and I actually wanted to be an astronaut at one point, changed my mind, life is to precious and I canīt be away from the beauty of earth, and go for a thrill inside a capsule for many many months, and just enjoy knowing it is space around you and when and if you get there, you will know that the sight will not be as beautieful as here on earth.

I think our planet earth is a quite decent place to be on ...considering.

jeric_synergy
10-11-2014, 12:40 AM
I think Mars will appeal to the same people who love deserts here. In fact, that's a major plot point in The Mars Trilogy.

shrox
10-11-2014, 01:13 AM
I think Mars will appeal to the same people who love deserts here. In fact, that's a major plot point in The Mars Trilogy.

I grew up in the Sonoran desert in Arizona. I like Mars and Mad Max!

prometheus
10-11-2014, 10:15 AM
I grew up in the Sonoran desert in Arizona. I like Mars and Mad Max!
were you throwing boomerangs too? or was it straight on to rockets:)

I really should enjoy deserts, since I am so allergic to grass, birch....unfortunatly also catīs, I got birch trees hanging outside of my sleeping room, I managed to get our rental host to cut almost all of them down, but they didnīt take them all down so I am still suffering from those during april-june.

No deserts here over in swede, mostly a lot of pine,fir,birch,oaks and grassy and crop fields and a lot of lakes, at the north some higher peaks similar to norway and also bordering to norway...so one would really like to see something like those in the monument valley, I really love those shapes, same goes with the devils tower.
I also got a little hooked on the wadi rum landscape in jordan after seeing the prometheus movie, what a majestic and weird landscape.

If I wouldnīt be so chicken, I think I would have been a decent candidate for the mission, I enjoy being alone..most of the time, and can stand isolation a lot...I think, just as long as I can work with lightwave or some
other creative tools during the voyage:)

If theres 80% risc of it going really bad...no, if it is 50% of going bad...no
20% and I might show some interest.

And if they do indeed manage to go there and back again one or two times, I might even look forward to such travel..during such calculated low risc conditions.

to bald go where no one has ever gone before...:)

Michael

jeric_synergy
10-11-2014, 12:19 PM
Bruce Sterling quipped that he'd believe in colonizing Mars once peopled colonized the Gobi Desert, which is a million times more salubrious than Mars.

AFAIK, the lack of magnetosphere is the greatest challenge to Martian habitation. Besides all the other ones. ;)

I think a bunch of self-replicating sun-shades over Venus needs to start NOW. It'll take centuries to cool that sucker off.

prometheus
10-11-2014, 01:46 PM
Bruce Sterling quipped that he'd believe in colonizing Mars once peopled colonized the Gobi Desert, which is a million times more salubrious than Mars.

AFAIK, the lack of magnetosphere is the greatest challenge to Martian habitation. Besides all the other ones. ;)

I think a bunch of self-replicating sun-shades over Venus needs to start NOW. It'll take centuries to cool that sucker off.


yeah..magnetosphere, that is kind of secondary, first of is to learn to get there and get back..several times in highest safety mode possible, then they can start working on terraforming, even without the magnetosphere Ivé heard that
it should be able to sustain an artificial atmosphere for some thousand years( not sure), so it would require to constantly creating the atmosphere or keeping it alive artificially some milleniums.
what would make the journey a little useless though, that would be if there isnīt any significant freezed water in the marsian soil, in such case I think it would be useless to try and terraform.

jeric_synergy
10-11-2014, 01:56 PM
It's not secondary if you're born there.

Assuming there's ever anyone living on Mars, I think some of the very deep features there, roofed over, may be the first outdoor-ish living spaces.

Crashing water-comets into the poles should commence NOW, along with the Venus sunshade project. ALso, genetic modification of humans to better survive in those environments.

Speeding up Venus' rotation, now, there's a decent engineering problem.

prometheus
10-11-2014, 02:49 PM
Itīs always secondary before the first trials are made :) currently no one is born there and will not be until we go through the first trials. :)


bombarding with water comets, yes...that is what pops up in my mind to, but have no clue to on how far they have researched that?
Find them, Catch them, and redirect them...those are the issues? and what about the impact results after that, it will surely kick up some serious dust and cover the mars planet in clouds for many months and years perhaps, if that is a good thing or not I donīt know?

shrox
10-11-2014, 03:49 PM
Mars can have a shirt sleeve environment, but it would be carbon dioxide atmosphere as Mars does not have a strong enough gravity field to keep oxygen down at the surface. Oxygen acts like helium does in our atmosphere and rises.

jeric_synergy
10-11-2014, 03:54 PM
It's mind-boggling complex, AND I'm pretty sure NOBODY knows fer sure. pshhh, Weather, amirite?

(Didn't a Swedish meteorologist pretty much invent chaos theory?)

Not only that, but there's simple tradeoffs: surrrrrrre, dust clouds will go up (most likely), reducing insolation, but you want several million megatons of water, donchya? Better to get all that bombardment stuff out of the way before the planet gets too crowded. Place is gonna need a soletta anyway. Or two.

On the finding, retrieving aspect: I always figured robotic sunsails. Sure, it'd be hella slow (hella, get it?) but the fuel is 'free'. And ground-based laser stations can speed up the propulsion a bit, although each station is also a hell of a weapon.

prometheus
10-11-2014, 04:58 PM
It's mind-boggling complex, AND I'm pretty sure NOBODY knows fer sure. pshhh, Weather, amirite?

(Didn't a Swedish meteorologist pretty much invent chaos theory?)
.

I donīt know about such meteorologist from sweden doing that, I thought it was Edward Norton Lorenz that is considered the pioneer of it.

dickbill
10-12-2014, 11:27 AM
An adaptation of KSR trilogy was suggested in the early 2000. Now forgotten. 9-11 and all of that....there may have been a market though, after all, not everybody who went to see the LOTR had read the book before and LOTR has been a huge success.

jeric_synergy
10-12-2014, 11:52 AM
Mini-series. How else? Shouldn't be a movie-- too geeky.

Aughhh, the central crime was agonizing-- well done, KSR!

In a later book, the fall of the space elevator would be AWESOME (literally) to animate. Takeaway: do NOT tether the bottom of your space elevator.

I looked into the terrorism aspect of space elevators (skyhook is less typing) and actually they're pretty safe, especially if situated on the East coast of any given equatorial chunk of land. You can blow it up in chunks, and only the first hundred miles or so needs to hit the 'ground'. Everything else can go into orbit.

A mini-series about the CONSTRUCTION and early management of skyhooks could be EPIC. Heroism, struggle, sacrifice, terrorism-- there's like 5 episodes that write themselves.

/geekout

dickbill
10-12-2014, 01:43 PM
minie series are never good, except when there are made in England (i.e British Sherlock >>> US 'Sherlock') then at least you have a script and a scenario that makes sense.
It seems that the only US purpose is to convey an ideological and political agenda, no matter what is the serie or movie, and unfortunately, since the agenda is always the same, so is the story.

shrox
10-12-2014, 02:44 PM
The Martian Chronicles on NBC in the late 70's was OK for it's time, except the effects were lame in a post Star Wars world.

dickbill
10-12-2014, 06:25 PM
Well, in the past they had excuses since it was extremely hard to have good special effects without a big budget. But now, 'just' LightWave seems to be good enough for most special effects. So now we can have 'smart' stories with good effects . Iron sky, Halo, Gallactica Chrome too if I am not mistaken, proved it.

jeric_synergy
10-12-2014, 09:07 PM
minie series are never good, except when there are made in England (i.e British Sherlock >>> US 'Sherlock')
Fine by me. Although Mars doesn't really lend itself to English countryside: AZ is more like it.

But Italy didn't look like Arrakis, did it?

The only thing I don't like about British/UK production is how incredibly slow it is. They don't PUMP crap out like we do. Apparently it actually takes time to write good scripts! Who knew?