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tcoursey
10-08-2014, 07:30 AM
Did anyone see this article by BOXX? I know there are some that say GPU rendering is not the future, but I say it def. has it's place. I wish we could get some of that nativly inside LW. Not bolted on as an add-on partner like Octane. Just give me a way to use my cuda cores in my Titan via the VPR with native surfacing!....pretty please.... :)

http://blog.boxxtech.com/2014/10/02/gpu-rendering-vs-cpu-rendering-a-method-to-compare-render-times-with-empirical-benchmarks/

Ryan Roye
10-08-2014, 07:41 AM
I wish we could get some of that nativly inside LW. Not bolted on as an add-on partner like Octane. Just give me a way to use my cuda cores in my Titan via the VPR with native surfacing!....pretty please.... :)

I wouldn't call Octane "bolted on", it's pretty tightly integrated into Lightwave and I think even the LW devs would have a hard time matching the level of usability and ergonomics Juan has worked to provide. Context-sensitive node menus, light display properties right in the 3d viewport, render passes, interactive post-processing effects, and very frequent updates with new features that often speed up the workflow.

This isn't to say Octane is perfect... I just feel the integration is more than adequate and is improving noticeably with every build release.

tcoursey
10-08-2014, 07:51 AM
I wouldn't call Octane "bolted on", it's pretty tightly integrated into Lightwave and I think even the LW devs would have a hard time matching the level of usability and ergonomics Juan has worked to provide. Context-sensitive node menus, light display properties right in the 3d viewport, render passes, interactive post-processing effects, and very frequent updates with new features that often speed up the workflow.

This isn't to say Octane is perfect... I just feel the integration is more than adequate and is improving noticeably with every build release.

Fair enough, I may be a bit too harsh, but to not be able to render with GPU via Octane ANY of Lightwaves native surfacing is to me not a solution. I might as well go over to a stand alone rendering app...Maxwell or similar.

I guess it's a two fold solution. Octane is a great render, I have played with it but not truly used it, certainly not in production. I'm sure there are quite a few hurdles if not complete road blocks to making a physically accurate renderer that would "work" with surfacing that is not aka, LW's native setups.

But it would be great to implement some sort of hybrid, that allows the GPU to do the calculations on the VPR rendering using LW's native surfacing.

Giving us the ability to use LW surfacing on our scenes if we choose but move into a complete physically accurate environment and use Octane surfacing.

BTW, there was no slam on Octane in my post. Think it's great. If somehow they chose to allow LW native surfacing render, they would be my hero! lol. Probably wont come from NewTek/LW3DG I bet...

ianr
10-08-2014, 10:29 AM
Yep like LightWave Turbo ,, !

lightscape
10-09-2014, 09:28 PM
Remember that gpu unbiased rendering isn't fast.
Its fast because you can easily stack gpus to render a single frame.

A single Titan(expensive) is not fast enough and not as useful as a typical single cpu where its useful for other stuff other than using for rendering.
You need atleast two Titan class gpus to have good speed in rendering in octane for example.
Getting rid of noise and hot pixels takes the most time for gpu rendering. It almost becomes as long as rendering in lightwave.
Animations suffer greatly from hotpixels going all over the place from frame to frame even when hotpixel settings is turned down a lot. Noise is easier to clean in post but 1000 samples is minimum for octane to get a clean enough image. 1000 samples is not quick without multiple gpus.

Albertdup
10-11-2014, 09:52 AM
Not available for Lightwave yet they are working on SDK to make it easier to integrate into other 3D apps but look at Redshift 3D, the fastest production ready GPU renderer period. I did a couple of projects with this and there is no way I can sit and wait for a CPU render anymore. Using modest hardware GTX 750 Ti I did a speed comparison rendering the same frame on the project I worked on using Arnold took 1 hour 15 minutes on a 6 core 12 threat CPU clocked at 4.2Ghz. Using Redshift on the 750Ti 5 minutes 20 seconds, and the noise levels were the same.

Below samples from their forum of a tank rendered with Arnold and Redshift.
124930124931

Ryan Roye
10-11-2014, 10:08 AM
Nothing stopping people from using GPU and CPU rendering at the same time. I see a lot of potential there. I mean, most people have CPU and GPU in their systems, so why not use ALL of it while rendering whenever possible?

erikals
10-11-2014, 10:27 AM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngAlbertup
Not available for Lightwave yet they are working on SDK to make it easier to integrate into other 3D apps but look at Redshift 3D, the fastest production ready GPU renderer period. I did a couple of projects with this and there is no way I can sit and wait for a CPU render anymore. Using modest hardware GTX 750 Ti I did a speed comparison rendering the same frame on the project I worked on using Arnold took 1 hour 15 minutes on a 6 core 12 threat CPU clocked at 4.2Ghz. Using Redshift on the 750Ti 5 minutes 20 seconds, and the noise levels were the same.

Below samples from their forum of a tank rendered with Arnold and Redshift.
124930124931

i like it... !! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif

edit: which is which here ?

tcoursey
10-11-2014, 02:25 PM
My personal use would be for preview type renders...using VPR style UI engagment. Playing with lights, textures etc. Octane trial is extremly fast for my use with my Titan, but can't use native LW textures and lights. Do not want final render quality through GPU (yet) will push the scene to the farm and wait. But waiting on test renders or VPR to catch up with me is not working anymore in 2014 with all this power under my hood...lol. Just want more power captain! :)

- - - Updated - - -

oh and those saying titans are expensive...we'll when you compare to the top of the line Xeons and think of being able to add 6 or more Titans in one system, the price/value is way on the GPU side I think.

spherical
10-11-2014, 05:32 PM
Nothing stopping people from using GPU and CPU rendering at the same time. I see a lot of potential there. I mean, most people have CPU and GPU in their systems, so why not use ALL of it while rendering whenever possible?

Thea Render Presto (http://www.thearender.com/cms/index.php/features/engines/presto-gpu.html) does this. Works great. They're adding new capability constantly. Only thing missing for us is an integrated plugin. Time for another vote!

Paul_Boland
10-11-2014, 06:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XISqvBVyASo
This is very impressive!!

lightscape
10-11-2014, 09:06 PM
Redshift 3D, the fastest production ready GPU renderer period.

Is anyone developing a lightwave plugin?



oh and those saying titans are expensive...we'll when you compare to the top of the line Xeons and think of being able to add 6 or more Titans in one system, the price/value is way on the GPU side I think.

That depends, a titan is only useful for rendering. A mid range desktop can be used by a number of artists as a workstation for a lot more different applications and as a render node at night. The render speed of a single titan and a mid range I7 is not far off depending on the scene.
But the value you get from mid range desktops is always a plus when studios are budgetting for hardware.

vonpietro
10-12-2014, 10:14 PM
that tank is unbelievably awesome looking, very high quality model.
any info on the tank?

oh and ya gpu rendering in lw native.. whoo hoo (for when they finally do this)
=)

paul, i watched that titan video - wow.. why isn't that stuff in lw yet in real time =)

it was basically turbulance in real time.. simply amazing.
and the epic unreal engine 4 thing at the end was said to be playing in real time - that... is.... unreal!!

bazsa73
10-13-2014, 02:04 AM
i like it... !! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif

edit: which is which here ?

yeah but practically it's indifferent because both looks insanely cool, imho the right one is the gpu render

Wickedpup
10-13-2014, 02:24 AM
edit: which is which here ?
Redshift on the left, SItoA on the right. (Look at the name of the image)

bazsa73
10-13-2014, 04:09 AM
Redshift on the left, SItoA on the right. (Look at the name of the image)

bummer!

Dexter2999
10-13-2014, 07:40 AM
In addition to the times listed in the article, I find it interesting that the "high end" graphics card (which closely coincides with the spec's of the Titan Black card) gives comparable quality to an eight core CPU, which costs four times as much money, and still does so in a fraction of the time.

I know this can shift as the scene demands change. But still, the idea of 6x the performance at 1/4 the price is exciting.

probiner
10-13-2014, 09:11 AM
Nothing stopping people from using GPU and CPU rendering at the same time(..)

It's called RedShift :D


Will stick with CPU for now, covers my needs.

allabulle
10-13-2014, 09:14 AM
It's called Thea :)

spherical
10-13-2014, 10:27 PM
It's called Thea :)

Exactly right. (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?143918-GPU-vs-CPU-Rendering-Benchamrks-and-Compare-Great-Article&p=1403953&viewfull=1#post1403953)

Ernest
10-14-2014, 01:09 AM
yeah but practically it's indifferent because both looks insanely cool, imho the right one is the gpu render
It's indifferent for the tank, but they handle the transparent material on the window panels very differently.

Albertdup
10-14-2014, 01:55 AM
The guy who did the tank renders had only used Redshift for less than a week when he did the renders. The transparency is just settings not the render engine.

Here is some more videos all rendered with Redshift to give you guys a better understanding of its quality. Its different from other GPU renderers, it uses "out of core" technology so you are not as limited by the RAM of your graphics card, the more you have the faster it renders. It is at least 10x the speed of a 4.2 Ghz 6 core 12 thread CPU when using a 4 year old GTX 570.

Here is some insanely detailed fur rendering.
https://www.behance.net/gallery/17918971/Baggit-Synthetic-Fur-Bags

Some commercials rendered with Redshift.
http://www.stopp.se/sas-travelers/
http://www.stopp.se/nordicbet-fotboll/
– Outside arena on the left, full CG incl. walking crowds
–Yellow buliding on the right side behind the bus if full CG
–Inside big soccer stadium with cheering crowds, confetti etc, full CG
–Cointoss, the coin itself and the backgrounds when it’s in the air is full CG
–The whole sportsbar with the flatscreen TV etc is full CG
http://www.stopp.se/nordicbet-hockey/
–Winter landscape on the right is CG/matte painting. House and ice is CG, plus snow flakes.
– Red house with guy walking is full CG (greenscreen) incl. icicles etc.
– A lot of Ice, airborne snow and backgrounds is CG in all the outdoor shots
– The indoor crowds are plated so no RS there wink
– Sportsbar is full CG here as well

Glassworks
http://www.glassworks.co.uk/video/lycra-moves-you&search-type=all&term=all
http://www.glassworks.co.uk/video/womb&search-type=all&term=all

here are some finished short commercials entirely renderd with RS.

http://www.soulcage-department.de/work/dab-wir-fahren-anders/
http://www.soulcage-department.de/work/dab-eishockey/
http://www.soulcage-department.de/work/dab-golf/
http://www.soulcage-department.de/work/dab-paraglider/

FILM
Fury the upcoming Brad Pitt WW2 film
Planes are CG rendered with Redshift.
https://vimeo.com/107941112

Expendables 3
http://www.artofvfx.com/?p=9058#prettyPhoto

Some Animation Tests

https://vimeo.com/95825115
https://vimeo.com/95825116
https://vimeo.com/101052056

Character tests for “Goin’ Legit”.
Characters created with Morpheus rig.
Animation and Rendering: Giuliano Draguleanu.

Ernest
10-14-2014, 02:59 AM
The guy who did the tank renders had only used Redshift for less than a week when he did the renders. The transparency is just settings not the render engine.

I actually preferred the way the Redshift transparency looked in that image. I don't know if it's less physically accurate with those setting, since we can't see the geometry, but it looks much more like what an average customer would expect to see.

spherical
10-14-2014, 03:06 AM
Well, if people would take the time to get the damn camera angles to be the same, it would be easier to compare apples and apples. Especially with reflectives, incident angle changes everything. How hard can that be?

Albertdup
10-14-2014, 04:49 AM
I can show he's first try with the demo but it has watermark all over it its the same angle, and he still had to figure out a couple of things. Forget to mention it took 9 minutes to render on a GTX 780 compared to 253 minutes with Arnold on a 4770k i7.

here is a small animation rendered with redshift of the tank

http://wurp.net/temp/tankAnim_v02.mp4

I’d recommend downloading the movie instead of playing it directly in the browser, it tends to lag a lot..

124974

erikals
10-14-2014, 09:37 AM
very nice, i feel Octane for example does AA slightly better though...

zapper1998
10-14-2014, 10:32 AM
Redshift???

hmmmm

no lightwave support???

cresshead
10-14-2014, 10:46 AM
both please..a renderer that gives you options to use either cpu or gpu...depending on the task and features you need in your project.

lightscape
10-14-2014, 11:17 PM
Redshift is more production ready than octane. The lego commercial look awesome.
But with no lightwave support its useless to lw users.

erikals
10-15-2014, 12:01 AM
Redshift is more production ready than octane
i guess, as it handles huge data, other than that, is it that much better ?



OpenCL support is planned for a future release
read this on the FAQ pages, good stuff... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

Dexter2999
10-15-2014, 12:05 AM
Wasn't sure if you guys had seen this yet or not.
Disney animation is making their own renderer.

http://www.fxguide.com/featured/disneys-new-production-renderer-hyperion-yes-disney/

lightscape
10-15-2014, 12:55 AM
i guess, as it handles huge data, other than that, is it that much better ?



read this on the FAQ pages, good stuff... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

Consider that octane has been in development for almost 5 years now, it still doesn't have out of core, wip renderpasses, Volumetric lighting and fog, wip per-object visibility flags (camera visible, shadow visible, GI visible, etc), limited material and uv features.
Some of those features were supposed to be in octane 1.

erikals
10-15-2014, 01:35 AM
Render passes
Volumetric lighting and fog

those are there, not sure about the others...


OctaneRender 1.5 will allow you to define three types of primary visibility for an object: general, camera and shadow visibility.

so, many of these features you claim missing, not missing.

lightscape
10-15-2014, 03:17 AM
Render passes
Volumetric lighting and fog

those are there, not sure about the others...



so, many of these features you claim missing, not missing.

I'm assuming you don't have octane?
Those features in octane are not fully working or buggy.
Its like ffx in lightwave :devil:

But anyway its useless to compare redshift to octane since there's no way to use redshift in lightwave. :D