PDA

View Full Version : Messiah Studio Pro to be Sold ( . . . to Autodesk )



Pages : [1] 2

jburford
09-27-2014, 02:41 AM
well, maybe not Autodesk, but it seems after all the years of indecision, that Fori's Baby will be sold off to another company.

Probably many of you received the Email Notification already.


*********

Dear messiahStudio User:

Big changes are about to happen for messiahStudio and you. We have been working on a deal with a company
that could change the industry, and give you an advantage as a messiahStudio user. We will be able
to add more resources, improve the software, and give you a greater user experience; as well as support
your projects in interesting ways. This will also mean the future cost of the product and upgrades, may not
be solely under our control. You are being offered one chance to save on both current and future versions, before
this happens.
If you want to lock in your ability to take advantage of the current price savings, these are your last
opportunities to do so. Don't say we didn't warn you :)

MESSIAHSTUDIO 5 USERS:
Upgrade to version 6, so you are not priced out of the future:
$20 http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shop_upgradeBF6.html
Anyone who is not on version 6 by the time this takes places, will not be able to upgrade, and will have
to pay the new prices, as if you were a new user. There will be nothing we can do to help you after that point.


MESSIAHSTUDIO 6 USERS:
If you want to lock in your future version price, avoid the price increase, and gain the advantages that
new users will have, without paying the new user price, convert to a subscription license: You can cancel it at any time, and still
run the version you have from that time forward. Your ability to run the software will not expire, only your access to new things
from that point on. If you re-subscribe after that, it will be at the new price, so it's to your advantage to maintain it.
This is the best deal we can give you as a current user; and soon you'll see why:
$40 a year: http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shopSUB6.html


We're sorry we can't disclose any more information at this time; our plans involve other companies,
so we are not at liberty to put out new information, before the appropriate time.
Thanks for your understanding. We look forward to sharing with you what's in store for the future.

Fori Owurowa
President, pmG Worldwide LLC
www.projectmessiah.com


pmG Worldwide LLC

The new messiahStudio6: used to create the world's first 360 degree 3D dome
CG movie experience: TurtleTrek (SeaWorld, Orlando Florida) and for the
short: 850 Meters, by Joeri Christiaen www.850meters.com



**********************


Or maybe he means his other 3D Technology for Monitors/TVs will be built in?? Or Steam Power???? Who knows..

What do you think?

Cheers,

Jeff

Dodgy
09-27-2014, 06:53 AM
Seems a bit desperate to me. Subscribe now to something we won't tell you what it is except that the price will go up, and you won't be able to upgrade from 5. I bought into 6 because it was a bargain price at he time, but I still haven't done much except play with it, so I think I'll pass for now till I see something more concrete.

probiner
09-27-2014, 07:04 AM
That's indeed strange. To subscribe to something that is undisclosed. To me it seems alike the campaign of Messiah for 40$ is x people bought into it, remember? At the time also people talked about that it would be sold and it would be something like a userbase transfer to someone else. Let's see...

bazsa73
09-27-2014, 09:17 AM
At last there is a chance that something good happens to this software. This would be the perfect CA toolset for LW imho.

Surrealist.
09-27-2014, 10:03 AM
Yeah great set of tools for CA no doubt. If you are on a budget then there are some good things there.

cresshead
09-27-2014, 12:26 PM
probably being bought by smith micro or daz 3d

mav3rick
09-27-2014, 01:33 PM
or foundry :) yay!

CaptainMarlowe
09-27-2014, 01:38 PM
probably being bought by smith micro or daz 3d

Based on the experience of further development of softwares bought by DAZ3D (Bryce, Hexagon, Carrara), if it's the case they're as good as dead...

Megalodon2.0
09-27-2014, 02:03 PM
Interesting that the pmG email says "COMPANIES" in one area and company in another. I wonder which is it?

I will bet that it WON'T be Newtek since NT seems to consistently drop the ball. OTOH... they haven't said ANYTHING about LW12 so maybe.... ?

Well... it's just wishful thinking.

Of course if it is Modo, I'll be okay with that too - just will be disappointed that NT didn't see the light. My opinion of course.

- - - Updated - - -


Based on the experience of further development of softwares bought by DAZ3D (Bryce, Hexagon, Carrara), if it's the case they're as good as dead...

Pretty much no different than pmG is right now. :)

Surrealist.
09-27-2014, 07:26 PM
I don't know seeing that Messiah is also already a plugin for LW, and the fact that lately LW3DG has been kown to take certain shortcuts to the various issues LightWave has inherently, Genoma, Gizmo for example, it is not that far fetched of an idea to entertain a merger or buyout in order to invest in it as a way to enhance LW functionality. Especially in the area of CA where LW is very weak.

It has been suggested here before on a couple occasions.

I initially assumed there would be little advantage to such a partnership. And I can imagine it would spark some dissent with those wanting a more unification-focused development, but when you think about it, really not that unreasonable to speculate.

One thing they both have in common. They don't like talking about development. And silence issue.... he he he. All smells NT.

hrgiger
09-27-2014, 07:45 PM
Perhaps its with the makers of Fabric Engine. In any case, I already own Messiah 6 and will probably pay the $40 for the annual subscription so we'll just have to see what happens with it.

jasonwestmas
09-27-2014, 09:06 PM
I think messiah can still be an awesome CA addon for lightwave users if things get handled correctly. Too bad the way the marketing is handled is super sloppy and inconsiderate.

M:S6 is still one of the best CA packages I've ever used, the mechanics of the software is still smooth as ever. It's up there with maya but without all the breakages and cleanup. Kinda wish it had more modeling/sculpting tools though.

souzou
09-28-2014, 07:37 AM
Perhaps its with the makers of Fabric Engine.

This makes the most sense. From the wording of the email it's bringing tech into Messiah rather than selling out to someone like the foundry to use the Messiah tech in their software. But who knows, I can't see many users shelling out for a subscription with so little info.

hrgiger
09-28-2014, 09:40 AM
This makes the most sense. From the wording of the email it's bringing tech into Messiah rather than selling out to someone like the foundry to use the Messiah tech in their software. But who knows, I can't see many users shelling out for a subscription with so little info.

Im hoping for Fabric Engine.

I think $40 is reasonable to ask for even with no info because they seem to be hinting at the fact that it might become quite a bit more expensive. If it was just PMG asking for $40, that would be one thing but theyre alluding that another company is about to step in so I think its worth the chance. They seem to suggest they could change the industry. If this were going to be an event in a theatre, Id pay $40 for a ticket to see such a show.

By the way, from the wording of the email, this sounds like a joint venture, not the selling off of Messiah to another company. You know, like Lux sold out to the foundry.

jasonwestmas
09-28-2014, 10:10 AM
I think pmG would have to keep "their" name in tact to not "sell out". ;)

The last time pmG made a big announcement without Wegg's videos, was uhhhh, never. So I guess you have a point HR in that this will be somewhat interesting news whenever it will be released.

jwiede
09-28-2014, 10:19 PM
If it was just PMG asking for $40, that would be one thing but theyre alluding that another company is about to step in so I think its worth the chance.

How is that any different from "just pmG asking for $40"? It's not like they named any third parties, nor stated what, if any, relationship would occur.

IMO, when a deal talks only about theoretical reasons it'll offer value, and doesn't commit that you'll actually receive anything in return, that's a huge, waving red flag.

visualbug
09-28-2014, 10:38 PM
what a shame...........messiah studio is a very robust animation software, faster realtime playback than maya,
I own messiah 5 I think, but lack of tutorials and a company like this with no clear communication and future is a bad sign............give 40$ bucks for nothing!

now that I own lightwave I want it to use as a plugin, but no idea how to do it, rig or animate, no so many tutorials around...........so, let me learn genoma or stick with blender for animation jejeje

I am not planning to upgrade to 6 even 7 or 8 jaja

Surrealist.
09-29-2014, 01:07 AM
I think if you hang out at Setup Tab you can figure it out. It is pretty much up to you I think. I mean I have my issues with their communication strategy too. I listed a bug and never heard anything for a year. Finally for whatever reason Wegg got a hold of it and played about with it. After some persistence I got him to see that it was indeed a bug and he and Flori worked on the issue for a while and eventually cracked it. The result is new improved rendering options for GI. They are a small company, they are working on very limited funds and well, I say you get what you pay for.

As for learning Messiah, there are three sources you have to jocky. 1) The incomplete manual 2) available tutorials that fill in the blanks and 3) the support community at setup tab, to help you with confusions about 1) and direct you to links on 2) and filling in the other blanks.

That is basically how I did it. It was not pretty nor fun a lot of times. But it is possible.

And sure you can say well you should not have to do that and so on... OK, but if you want to use the software, that is what is there. The only other option is to move on.

But it can be learned; there is information available; and for the price, the paid tutorials you can get (aside from ones I mentioned that are free) are worth the extra cash.

visualbug
09-29-2014, 02:32 AM
"The only other option is to move on".........sad......but......yeap................mov ing on.....................no choice............. :(

I am a setuptab forum member, I own messiah studio 4,4.5,5 bought a few trainings from the page, and I stopped there.

They can learn a little bit on how Andrew from 3d-coat IS doing business, working with users, and communicating a lot, finding bugs,
helping your community of users to speed up with your software, answering questions and hey! they are small too!

oh wait, one man show is Moi3d! version 3 now, small community, beta testing and very nice forum that michael himself (the only creator/programer/everything) is answering questions for the users of moi3d, even making scripts for free to the pro users that need extra push in their projects...........mmmm........talking about what is coming for new versions....................what is the difference with messiah studio? you can do the math :) loyal people left messiah long time ago.... no problem to support you as a developer but sending an email about "a mysterious company" or a "increase price" update for a "future" upgrades" jajaja funny.....

maybe is true and Autodesk owns messiah by now jaja

jburford
09-29-2014, 02:53 AM
Yes, PMG is/was it's biggest enemy. If it were run as 3D Coat were run, it would be still tops in the world and gaining users everywhere. But..... we know the real deal.

Call me a sucker, but am taking a chance on 2 of my licenses. Just to see where the ride goes, but probably should know better.

hrgiger
09-29-2014, 02:57 AM
How is that any different from "just pmG asking for $40"? It's not like they named any third parties, nor stated what, if any, relationship would occur.

IMO, when a deal talks only about theoretical reasons it'll offer value, and doesn't commit that you'll actually receive anything in return, that's a huge, waving red flag.

Because I've always liked Messiah, I've just felt like its been stagnant for sometime now. If they're involving another company, then maybe something worthwhile will actually happen. And when I think of all the trivial **** I've spent $40 or more on... this isn't exactly a huge investment.

mav3rick
09-29-2014, 05:45 AM
what a shame...........messiah studio is a very robust animation software, faster realtime playback than maya,
I own messiah 5 I think, but lack of tutorials and a company like this with no clear communication and future is a bad sign............give 40$ bucks for nothing!

now that I own lightwave I want it to use as a plugin, but no idea how to do it, rig or animate, no so many tutorials around...........so, let me learn genoma or stick with blender for animation jejeje

I am not planning to upgrade to 6 even 7 or 8 jaja

while you are on CA in lightwave.. go for REBELL HILL CA VIDEO TUTORIALS and if you have extra budget ... take RHIGGIT PRO 2 ... it really is really robust and great piece of tools for serious CA animation.

visualbug
09-29-2014, 09:58 AM
mmm, I will take a look at RHR rigging tutorials and the nodes tutorials, interesting, if not, I will stick with blender for
my rigging needs and then back to lightwave for render............

Surrealist.
09-29-2014, 11:08 AM
From my experience, Messiah leaves Blender in the dust for rigging and animation tools by far. The only reason I'd not use Messiah at this point is because I have Maya at my disposal. Another story.

The advantage of Blender is of course that you have the animation and rigging tools nested in an application that gives you the other needed features for a pipeline.

Where Messiah comes in is a very cool and very powerful animation tool. It also comes with some very nice rendering.

In general I think it has some very nice features that are worth having in your pipeline assuming you don't use Maya. Maybe even if you do.

For example a Blender LightWave combo I still think the effort to learn Messiah is worth it. I think if anyone did that, they'd be happy they did.

I still think about getting back into it from time to time. Curious what they are up to now.

bobakabob
09-29-2014, 01:16 PM
mmm, I will take a look at RHR rigging tutorials and the nodes tutorials, interesting, if not, I will stick with blender for
my rigging needs and then back to lightwave for render............

Lightwave has evolved into a very animator friendly tool. The RHiggit Lite plugin is brilliant if you want a top notch unbreakable biped rig. It will save a ton of time animating directly in LW. There is a Rigging toolkit for creative purposes and the Animation toolkit speeds up workflow significantly. After using this I'm intending to invest in the pro version.
Genoma, integrated into LW is highly flexible and has made animating in Layout far more intuitive and accessible. The rig fundamentals set directly in Modeler are embedded in your object and easily edited.
Also check out the IKBoost tutorials out there. Though this tool isn't for everyone, many users swear by it for fast productions especially with multiple characters.

spherical
09-29-2014, 10:17 PM
Call me a sucker, but am taking a chance on 2 of my licenses. Just to see where the ride goes, but probably should know better.

Heh, we did the same; upgrading three v5 seats to v6.

Pignoo
09-30-2014, 05:04 AM
Heh, we did the same; upgrading three v5 seats to v6.

Hi, me too ! I try the subscribe for $40/year/license.
I hope good news soon, Messiah is so awesome for rigging and animation.

visualbug
09-30-2014, 05:00 PM
I hope that messiah and the team can change finally, is a great software, I have it, I hope that they invest in making tutorials for the new version....if there any version coming.............

Surrealist.
09-30-2014, 09:46 PM
Perhaps, but I would not hold your breath. At this point the information is there. It is a great software. I was able to get it all sorted, and had I not stopped using it I may have gotten around to consolidating everything I found. But the folks over at Set Up tab are all too willing to help you if you are serious about putting it to use.

Bottom line is for me, I have learned that to take advantage of software you have to be willing to do the work. Zbrush taught me that very clearly. Even with all of the resources it took me over a month full time to get through most everything, I think it was like 2 Months on Messiah... whew!

And each software, Blender and LW included, was like this for me. Messiah was an additional nightmare because the information is scattered, but it is all there for free. At least to get you up and running with the basics.

Then some of the paid stuff takes it to another level entirely. And it is not that expensive.

visualbug
10-04-2014, 09:16 PM
another email from pmG Worldwide LLC: :)

Dear messiahStudio User:

There's only 5 days left to take advantage of our offer, before we close it out.

Big changes are about to happen for messiahStudio and you. We have been working on a deal with a company
that could change the industry, and give you an advantage as a messiahStudio user. We will be able
to add more resources, improve the software, and give you a greater user experience; as well as support
your projects in interesting ways. This will also mean the future cost of the product and upgrades, may not
be solely under our control. You are being offered one chance to save on both current and future versions, before
this happens.
If you want to lock in your ability to take advantage of the current price savings, these are your last
opportunities to do so. Don't say we didn't warn you

spherical
10-04-2014, 09:58 PM
Heh. The last line attitude/threat really isn't the best impression to make. We updated ours a while ago but reading this belligerent crap makes us wonder.... Unprofessional, at the very least.

jasonwestmas
10-05-2014, 09:45 AM
well Fori apparently doesn't want a whole bunch of hate emails when these changes get made. . . I do wonder how much mail that would really be. ;) I really don't know what to think of all this since pmg is so ambiguous but I know one thing, and that is there are a lot of angry/frustrated messiah users but that happened some time ago before this subscription stuff.

jeric_synergy
10-05-2014, 10:30 AM
Customer service: it's harrrrrrrrd.

hrgiger
10-05-2014, 10:32 AM
Heh. The last line attitude/threat really isn't the best impression to make. We updated ours a while ago but reading this belligerent crap makes us wonder.... Unprofessional, at the very least.

I dont know, i dont see any belligerance or attitude in the comments. If the price is about to go up or the software does improve, its nice that they gave people an opportunity to save some money.

jeric_synergy
10-05-2014, 11:52 AM
Plausible deniability. I think I'll pass this time: the couple times I bought M I never remember to use it, and the workflow is foreign in the extreme. YMMV.

jasonwestmas
10-05-2014, 12:15 PM
and the workflow is foreign in the extreme. YMMV.

To an extreme? Not in my experience, I've used maya, max, lightwave quite a lot now and they all have powerful workflows and they all look different on the surface. The tools in messiah have obviously been modeled after a lot of what I've seen in all three of these applications, especially lightwave layout.

It's also quite interesting what modo turned into and how much similarity there is to messiah's tabs and timeline.

jeric_synergy
10-05-2014, 12:17 PM
y m m v

jasonwestmas
10-05-2014, 12:29 PM
mrducks

mrnotducks

osar

cdedbdwings?

mrducks

probiner
10-05-2014, 02:20 PM
If I had a perpetual license already I would update, but signing to a subscription of something I don't know if I'll get to use... meh... :/

spherical
10-05-2014, 03:19 PM
I dont see any belligerance or attitude in the comments.

That's good. Just rubs the wrong way when a company wanting $$$ tells me the equivalent of: "You've been warned!" Idanno, seems that those last six words could just as easily been left off or be replaced with a more cordial: "and we wanted to make sure that you didn't miss out on a great deal." Way different, yet conveys the same message. It's the recurring PR thing. The feeling lately is that customers are just a necessary evil and sincere respect for them is no longer the norm.

cresshead
10-05-2014, 03:40 PM
any actual factual news updates on this?

spherical
10-05-2014, 04:15 PM
Oh heck no. I expect the 5 day deadline to come and go.

Oedo 808
10-05-2014, 05:49 PM
So if you upgrade a v5 to v6, are the new licences perpetual for v6 even if you do no further upgrade?

spherical
10-05-2014, 06:03 PM
A lot of ambiguity in the emails and the web pages. They could try anything, I suppose. That said, this is what is in the first post:


MESSIAHSTUDIO 6 USERS:
If you want to lock in your future version price, avoid the price increase, and gain the advantages that
new users will have, without paying the new user price, convert to a subscription license: You can cancel it at any time, and still
run the version you have from that time forward. Your ability to run the software will not expire, only your access to new things
from that point on. If you re-subscribe after that, it will be at the new price, so it's to your advantage to maintain it.
This is the best deal we can give you as a current user; and soon you'll see why:

Oedo 808
10-05-2014, 06:39 PM
Thanks, I know people are wary of a money grab but even though I'm not all that au fait with Messiah, for the price I could handle the vagueness of what was coming if I was just more clear about what I would be getting. Might look into it some more.

ernpchan
10-05-2014, 08:18 PM
I don't get why I have to commit without knowing what's going on. To me the better route for all this would be to announce what's going on and then give people a finite window to jump on. Then people can't complain about missing out and those that show loyalty get rewarded with a great deal. Right now if you're jumping in, what if you're not thrilled with the announcement?

Oedo 808
10-05-2014, 08:39 PM
Yeah, I think my last comment was as clear as mud, with all the options I just wanted to be sure that when upgrading to V6 that this would be available indefinitely even if not subscribing any further. With regards to subscribing further, I agree it's very vague, I mean if there is a partnership and supposing the partners didn't want anything to be disclosed, is it likely that someone who misses out is going to be happy about something they would have signed up to so that they come right back in at a higher price, even if it was not an otherwise unreasonable amount? I doubt it.

ernpchan
10-05-2014, 08:52 PM
I would be a little OK if after announcing the big news they extended the buy in period at slightly higher cost. The blind buy in I'm not a fan of.

spherical
10-06-2014, 01:03 AM
I don't get why I have to commit without knowing what's going on.

Over the years, this has been the Standard Operating Procedure with these guys. Smoke and Mirrors. "Look over here!" Takes all kinds.... That said, when the risk factor to upgrade got as low as it SEEMS to be, we did knuckle under. We'll see if that was a good move or Fool Me Once... you know the rest.

bazsa73
10-06-2014, 03:49 AM
I wait till v7. Plenty of water flows down the river Danube when it happens imho. And I would also like to know who is the buyer - if any.
So I move calmly and slowly. No need to hurry.

jeric_synergy
10-06-2014, 11:40 AM
There's other, SHIPPING plugins that deserve my money. True, more than $40, but a known quantity.

For that matter, sending forty bucks to Denis makes a lot more sense IMO.

http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/nodes/Additionnal_Nodes_2.html

probiner
10-06-2014, 11:49 AM
Fool Me Once... you know the rest.

Sorry, but reminded me too much of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rovQj9vNq8I :D

Davewriter
10-06-2014, 08:40 PM
So they are in their last hours before their "big announcement" and then there is "Don't miss NewTek's Philip Nelson on GeekBeat TV"
Now I'm not saying... but I'm saying... and ducking quickly.

Surrealist.
10-06-2014, 11:10 PM
lol... hard to say. From a lot of angles it does make a lot of sense.

I do have a love hate relationship with PMG, but Messiah is still a great little app.

ernpchan
10-07-2014, 12:31 AM
Messiah is going subscription so unlikely LW is involved.

Surrealist.
10-07-2014, 02:56 AM
Unless of course... :devil:

HarverdGrad
10-07-2014, 03:39 AM
I thought about it and did the $40 Subscription. After I read this "you can cancel it at any time, and still
run the version you have from that time forward." - I felt better about it. Yeah, it could be money out the window, but whatever. It's very capable & I like the back and forth interaction between Layout & Messiah.
~Regards

hrgiger
10-07-2014, 08:20 AM
well I find it interesting that they are giving a specific time limit as to how long you have to take advantage, only 4 days left I believe. If this were soley a cash grab, you'd think they'd give it a month or more. Even if they go back to their original price for studio before this perpetual sale they've been running ,I'll be glad to have spent the $40.

meatycheesyboy
10-07-2014, 04:55 PM
Yesterday I upgraded from v5 to v6 for $20. So far, all I've received is a receipt from PayPal. How long did it take for those of you that upgraded all to receive your license info? I'm planning on doing a yearly subscription but want to make sure I have v6 licensed before I pull the trigger but want to get it done before the time limit expires. Anyone have any insight they can offer?

I really hate these blind buy shenanigans but I'm pretty much a sucker so... yeah.

ernpchan
10-07-2014, 05:01 PM
If you email customer support you get a response pretty quickly. Last time I upgraded was the Dare to Share which I think was pretty chaotic.

Oedo 808
10-07-2014, 05:40 PM
I really hate these blind buy shenanigans but I'm pretty much a sucker so... yeah.

Haha, yeah that's me.

pablogrca1
10-07-2014, 09:37 PM
Bought the $20 upgrade, since I already own 5. :)

visualbug
10-09-2014, 09:02 PM
48 hours!!! another one:

Dear messiahStudio User:

There's only 48 hrs left to take advantage of our offer, before we close it out.

Big changes are about to happen for messiahStudio and you. We have been working on a deal with a company
that could change the industry, and give you an advantage as a messiahStudio user. We will be able
to add more resources, improve the software, and give you a greater user experience; as well as support
your projects in interesting ways. This will also mean the future cost of the product and upgrades, may not
be solely under our control. You are being offered one chance to save on both current and future versions, before
this happens.
If you want to lock in your ability to take advantage of the current price savings, these are your last
opportunities to do so. Don't say we didn't warn you

MESSIAHSTUDIO 5 USERS:
Upgrade to version 6, so you are not priced out of the future:
$20 http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shop_upgradeBF6.html
Anyone who is not on version 6 by the time this takes places, will not be able to upgrade, and will have
to pay the new prices, as if you were a new user. There will be nothing we can do to help you after that point.


MESSIAHSTUDIO 6 USERS:
If you want to lock in your future version price, avoid the price increase, and gain the advantages that
new users will have, without paying the new user price, convert to a subscription license: You can cancel it at any time, and still
run the version you have from that time forward. Your ability to run the software will not expire, only your access to new things
from that point on. If you re-subscribe after that, it will be at the new price, so it's to your advantage to maintain it.
This is the best deal we can give you as a current user; and soon you'll see why:
$40 a year: http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shopSUB6.html


We're sorry we can't disclose any more information at this time; our plans involve other companies,
so we are not at liberty to put out new information, before the appropriate time.
Thanks for your understanding. We look forward to sharing with you what's in store for the future.

Fori Owurowa
President, pmG Worldwide LLC
www.projectmessiah.com


pmG Worldwide LLC

The new messiahStudio6: used to create the world's first 360 degree 3D dome
CG movie experience: TurtleTrek (SeaWorld, Orlando Florida) and for the
short: 850 Meters, by Joeri Christiaen www.850meters.com

meatycheesyboy
10-10-2014, 08:46 AM
I wish they would put a date on this announcement and on the end of the sale. People seem to be getting the emails at different times so I'm not sure if the sale ends today, tomorrow, or possibly Sunday? Guess we'll just wait and see.

GandB
10-10-2014, 09:42 AM
Just like political ads, it'll be nice when the emails stop. ;) I'm as curious as everyone else, as to the naming of said company.

MrWyatt
10-10-2014, 10:27 AM
So they want people to buy in without info on what's coming and what company they are partnering with? Must be Newtek then. I know nobody else that would pull a stunt like that.

GandB
10-10-2014, 12:42 PM
So they want people to buy in without info on what's coming and what company they are partnering with? Must be Newtek then. I know nobody else that would pull a stunt like that.

+1 and what I was figuring as well. They're into the whole "secret squirrel" stuff too.

hazmat777
10-10-2014, 12:53 PM
But if NT did join with PMG might it just be another 3rd module problem we are trying to avoid?

visualbug
10-10-2014, 03:12 PM
can I dream: Adobe ? ok back to reality............. :)

Megalodon2.0
10-10-2014, 04:52 PM
can I dream: Adobe ? ok back to reality............. :)

Heaven forbid! Another RENTAL ONLY software. No thanks!

meatycheesyboy
10-10-2014, 06:32 PM
Maybe it's someone like Nevercenter. They stopped developing Silo a while ago but maybe they want to get back in the 3D game.

Surrealist.
10-10-2014, 11:22 PM
For a lot of reasons, NT makes sense. One of the most compelling I suppose - according to a friend after chatting on this for a while - is the fact that NT has been silent, continues to be silent. And they email says that PMG can not say anything.

True that most companies would stay silent until a deal has been reached. But then once reached and firm, it is usually announced. And these emails sound like the deal has been reached as a foregone conclusion. So why then the silence?

So, my take on it is because it could very well be LW 3D Group which would also explain the "Company" and then "Companies" at the last part of the email (LW 3D Group and NT?)

And one thing is absolutely certain. If it was LW 3D group, they would do all of this behind the scenes and have it more or less working and ready to be released and announced as coming. So Flori would have to stay silent until LW 3D group was ready to start the announcements for LW 12.

And if they did so before, the forums would be on fire for all of the obvious reasons. People wanting unification seeing this as another side road... on and on.

But I think they have shown they are willing to take short cuts along the way to that goal. And Messiah would be a very large enhancement to the LW toolset. Having it developed and funded my LW 3D group would then give it the love it has need these last years.

There are certainly other possibilities. But another plus side is that Messiah already plays well with LW. And LW of all the apps out there is the one that seems to need the most character animation love. Modo is moving along quite fine...

Just thoughts....

m.d.
10-11-2014, 12:13 AM
It's weird that he suggest you can protect from future price increases by shifting to a subscription, but earlier stating that he may not have control over future price increases....And that whatever the structure the subscription would carry over....

Seems odd to suggest you will have the price locked in for future versions, if the pricing may not be under your control

All the subscription talk suggests that the company in talks with either runs a subscription service or is at least comfortable with the idea.....I doubt Adobe or autodesks lawyers would allow him to even suggest the subscription price would remain the same....they probably would not even allow publicly discussing the possibility of a sale until it is already done.

This leads me to believe it may be a smaller web based service....ex ikinema, or mixamo etc....

I guess we'll see.....

There is also the possibility that nothing will happen at all...

Chris S. (Fez)
10-11-2014, 12:19 AM
Interesting. It would certainly be exciting to see Rob and the rest of the team incorporate selective Messiah tech and workflow philosophies into LW but that announcement smacks of scam/spam. Ah well, probably worth the 20 bucks just for the blank anticipation. Like scratching a lotto ticket: I'm not expecting to win but winning would certainly be a nice surprise...

jeric_synergy
10-11-2014, 12:43 AM
I feel like a chump, but I upgraded to 6.

*ruefully shaking head* That's like ten cups of coffee.

lightscape
10-11-2014, 01:16 AM
Buy with paypal. If it turns out to be a scam and its not revolutionary reverse the purchase.

Oedo 808
10-11-2014, 01:29 AM
I feel like a chump, but I upgraded to 6.

*ruefully shaking head* That's like ten cups of coffee.

Ha, you'll have to put up with caffeine withdrawal for a while 8/

Having been lax in learning Messiah so far, I'll have fun enough just playing around with what it can do, certainly twenty bucks worth of entertainment and obviously more than that if I stay using any part of it. As for the spiel, yeah it's a bit 'meh', yet I think it would be a shame if Messiah sank beneath the waves, I think I will take a punt on it and hope something more comes of it.


Buy with paypal. If it turns out to be a scam and its not revolutionary reverse the purchase.

Well for the upgrade to v6 people know what they will be getting, but it's a good point about Paypal if anyone is concerned that nothing will come of it with subscribing. I doubt PayPal are going to be interested in people being unimpressed with a forty dollar revolution so not liking whatever comes is unlikely to be enough, but at least there's protection from anything grossly untoward.

saranine
10-11-2014, 04:31 AM
Heaven forbid! Another RENTAL ONLY software. No thanks!

Surely it is Microsoft. A ribbon will be added to the top of Messiah Studio. Then lots of tiles. The new product will be called...

Messiah 11 [ well what's skipping a few of those pesky numbers between friends.]

Crush
10-11-2014, 04:35 AM
@Megalodon2.0:
I also thought it´s rental only, but they answered on my request, I will not lose the license after stopping the update purchase. I´d stay on the last actual version I have and can use it without any restrictions as long as I want to - I only won´t get any upgrades any more.

Therefore I jumped in the offer. V6 pro is good enough that I can do most things I want to and the software can only get better if you´re not afraid in exploring the software on your own without overwhelming documentation.

saranine
10-11-2014, 04:38 AM
It's weird that he suggest you can protect from future price increases by shifting to a subscription, but earlier stating that he may not have control over future price increases....And that whatever the structure the subscription would carry over....

Seems odd to suggest you will have the price locked in for future versions, if the pricing may not be under your control

All the subscription talk suggests that the company in talks with either runs a subscription service or is at least comfortable with the idea.....I doubt Adobe or autodesks lawyers would allow him to even suggest the subscription price would remain the same....they probably would not even allow publicly discussing the possibility of a sale until it is already done.

This leads me to believe it may be a smaller web based service....ex ikinema, or mixamo etc....

I guess we'll see.....

There is also the possibility that nothing will happen at all...

I doubt whether any law school undergraduate would allow such a presumptuous and ambiguous email to leave the office watercooler room. The email is unprofessional, suspicious and downright weird.

A cynical thought occurs to me - maybe Fori is trying to get money off people before Messiah goes open source. Now THAT would be cold, calculating evil that would make Dr Evil in Austin Powers look angelic.

Surrealist.
10-11-2014, 06:54 AM
Flori might be a recluse but I seriously doubt he is a crook. He makes great software, this offer is strange... but I have my ideas about why it does sound strange.... but...

What is stranger is that people think it is OK to come online and defame people publicly - that they don't even know.

That is evil.

HarverdGrad
10-11-2014, 08:31 AM
Flori might be a recluse but I seriously doubt he is a crook. He makes great software, this offer is strange... but I have my ideas about why it does sound strange.... but...

What is stranger is that people think it is OK to come online and defame people publicly - that they don't even know.

That is evil.


What are your thoughts on why the offer might be sounding strange? (if you don't mind me asking)

jasonwestmas
10-11-2014, 08:35 AM
In the three years I've been scoping things from pmg and Fori, I have no reason to believe that he is trying to take advantage of people. Just the opposite, he is really not interested in money and fame, which is a shame for the software lol.

Surrealist.
10-11-2014, 09:22 AM
What are your thoughts on why the offer might be sounding strange? (if you don't mind me asking)

I think what I was referring to in this case was the fact that there is this silence, yet apparently a deal has been struck. If such was so, then there would be an announcement publicly. Usually there is. Unless the company with which the deal had been struck (that no doubt included giving flori the right to make a last minute call for upgrades) had a reason to keep any announcements silent up to a given time.

And one company that comes to mind as one that fists such a description would be LW 3D group.

They have lots of reasons why this would be a good thing. And lots of reasons why they would not want it to leak as to this as a plan. Man talk about the forums on fire. And they have been very very very silent lately...

I don't know. Just pure speculation.

All they'd have to do is come here and say, nope, not us. Simple enough.

Speculation over. :D

But they have laid down such a great silence policy lately that if they did not do this, then, it would be nothing unusual and would not mean anything....

Ah,... the plot thickens...

HarverdGrad
10-11-2014, 10:55 AM
..And one company that comes to mind as one that fists such a description would be LW 3D group.

That's what I'm thinking, and it makes a lot more sense than many of the other Companies out there.
..and thanks for your thoughts Richard.

Surrealist.
10-11-2014, 11:09 AM
It does make a lot of sense.

We'll know soon enough I suppose.

hrgiger
10-11-2014, 11:53 AM
I cant see LW3DG being involved in this deal. Just from the comment about a company that could change the industry... I think its either a new player or a company that is currently being innovative. Just a few companies spring to mind. Pixologic, Fabric Engine, SideFX....

ernpchan
10-11-2014, 12:09 PM
Just from the comment about a company that could change the industry...
I took this line with a grain. messiah is such a niche program I'm not seeing how their acquisition by another company would dramatically change the landscape of the industry. To me it sounded like marketing boasting.

I admit I am interested in seeing who the other company is.

m.d.
10-11-2014, 12:15 PM
Lightwave definitely makes sense....messiah is strong where it is lacking....

Just the whole line about converting to subscriptions to keep the price is puzzling, as newtek has no subscriptions currently and would be odd to have one single product that did.....

Who knows...I'd would be cool if newtek purchased it and integrated some of it into lightwave

ernpchan
10-11-2014, 12:20 PM
Yeah that's why I don't think LW is a player. Plus people have issues with the split environment. Now you add a third? Haha, we're going in the wrong direction.

meatycheesyboy
10-11-2014, 12:23 PM
I would be interested in Newtek acquiring it if the announcement was that they've already integrated it into Layout and are discontinuing Project: Messiah. I'm not interested if it means that Newtek is adding another product to their portfolio. We'd then have an Autodesk situation where they have a huge portfolio of products that have tons of overlap like Max, Maya, and formerly Softimage.

jeric_synergy
10-11-2014, 12:29 PM
1) Caffeine - Dude, I'm a Seattleite: caffeine withdrawel would KILL me.

2) Yeah, I kinda felt it's a bit like giving a dollar to a homeless person, a little something might help pMg survive a bit longer.

3) $20 for several hours entertainment IS a good bargain! :)

4) Personally, I would prefer 'overwhelming documentation' once or twice in my LIFE. I've yet to see it, it's all been underwhelming for sure. (Actually, the MAYA dox are very impressive, but they have all the money in the world.)

5) I'm reasonably sure many of the speculations in this thread are causing high levels of hilarity in the LW3dG offices....

Surrealist.
10-11-2014, 12:31 PM
I cant see LW3DG being involved in this deal. Just from the comment about a company that could change the industry... I think its either a new player or a company that is currently being innovative. Just a few companies spring to mind. Pixologic, Fabric Engine, SideFX....


True but there is a difference between being innovative and needing to invest in something like Messiah as an offering. All of the companies you mention already have innovative approaches to animation tools. Houdni is node based. Zbrush, keeps adding more and more animation tools within Zbrush. Fabric engine guys are trying to redefine development and I can not see Messiah fitting in to that at all.

Reading further into the comment. Well, if LW actually could be better equipped to offer these animation tools (better integration further development), actually people have considered Messiah to be the nest best thing to Maya in terms of animation tools. At LW price point and with the other tools in LW, this could be considered by some people as a game changer. So it is not that far fetched as an idea.

Further Messiah not only as plugin, but with things like native support for mdd.

So basically if another company snatches it up, they'd have to be one that was not in direct competition with LW. I would think. Or you would see the LW development side diminish.

Further thoughts....

You know someone brought this up months ago... hey why not buy Messiah? I was like. Are you kidding? Why would they do that? What would be the benifit.

And well now here it is Messiah is being bought. Hmmm... I have changed my tune a little bit thinking it over more.

Also if Messiah remains a separate program then this would also fit in to the current LW 3D Group style. Chronosculp, Nevron Motion... Messiah Studio Pro..

ha ha ha

so fund to speculate

jeric_synergy
10-11-2014, 12:45 PM
This thread is 'inside baseball' to the max.

Genoma AND Messiah? Does that make sense? (I don't really know.)

Surrealist.
10-11-2014, 01:26 PM
Well,.... if we are continuing to speculate....

Actually it makes perfect sense...

Megalodon2.0
10-11-2014, 02:16 PM
@Megalodon2.0:
I also thought it´s rental only, but they answered on my request, I will not lose the license after stopping the update purchase. I´d stay on the last actual version I have and can use it without any restrictions as long as I want to - I only won´t get any upgrades any more.

Therefore I jumped in the offer. V6 pro is good enough that I can do most things I want to and the software can only get better if you´re not afraid in exploring the software on your own without overwhelming documentation.

Yes I know. I was referring to the post that suggested ADOBE would buy it up - and they ARE rental-only. While Fori is a pretty lousy business person (but incredible coder), at least he realizes that we shouldn't be left with nothing after investing our cash.

I have four licenses of v6.

Shiny_Mike
10-11-2014, 02:45 PM
The messiah tools into ->Lightwave idea is interesting speculation. Wonder if Clarisse might be a possibility as well? (no CA tools)

spherical
10-11-2014, 05:23 PM
Just the whole line about converting to subscriptions to keep the price is puzzling, as newtek has no subscriptions currently and would be odd to have one single product that did.....

And this is what concerns me if it is LW3DG. Like any pathogen, once internalized, it'll spread to and consume everything.

hrgiger
10-11-2014, 06:06 PM
Well and Newtek has mentioned no subscriptions will be made so again, a good indication that they are not the ones involved with whatever Messiah is involved in.

Surrealist.
10-11-2014, 09:21 PM
Yeah I thought about that too. But then we are talking about the difference between what people say and promise and what they actually do. So far there has been a wide gap in those two things. He also said 3 years road map to bring core technology to LightWave. Now, where do they get the time to do that, make Nevorn, chronosulpt, a widget, genomoa... all things that do nothing to bring core into LW. And all things that prove that this is a longer range goal than 3 years, so they have to spend efforts in improvements that they can implement now.

And also they could counter that they meant LW and roll out Messiah as an experiment in the rental option. Or simply roll out an option. As long as it is an option they would not get flack.

But in general, I think it was just sales speak. Noting more. They are free to "redefine" what he meant and add subscription as an option.

meatycheesyboy
10-11-2014, 10:01 PM
Based on the times stated in the emails they sent out, the sale should be over but the sale prices are still up. They could be going until midnight on the west coast but I'll be interested to see if the 'limited time' sale is still going tomorrow. And if it does end on time, I wonder when we'll get an announcement. Monday?

hrgiger
10-11-2014, 10:41 PM
He also said 3 years road map to bring core technology to LightWave. Now, where do they get the time to do that, make Nevorn, chronosulpt, a widget, genomoa... all things that do nothing to bring core into LW. And all things that prove that this is a longer range goal than 3 years, so they have to spend efforts in improvements that they can implement now.



Rob clarified that statement later when someone else brought it up. When he said that, he just said they had a 3 year roadmap, meaning they had simply planned the next 3 years of development out, not that they would reach a certain goal such as integration or bringing CORE tech into LightWave.... And when subscriptions were brought up before, the sentiment that has generally been stated by more then a few at NT is "never". I'm afraid its not Newtek.

OnlineRender
10-12-2014, 03:50 AM
so has anything actually happened yet? , I got a few emails last week but not really been following

visualbug
10-12-2014, 05:08 AM
jeje nothing yet,

sukardi
10-12-2014, 05:17 AM
My bet would be on mixamo ...

Surrealist.
10-12-2014, 06:26 AM
Rob clarified that statement later when someone else brought it up. When he said that, he just said they had a 3 year roadmap, meaning they had simply planned the next 3 years of development out, not that they would reach a certain goal such as integration or bringing CORE tech into LightWave.... And when subscriptions were brought up before, the sentiment that has generally been stated by more then a few at NT is "never". I'm afraid its not Newtek.

Well yeah sure you could be right. But I just don't find that these arguments hold much water.

Unless you have insider info. Unless Rob or Matt or someone actually told you today, no. It isn't. I think it is still up for debate, and, the reasons to look at NT... just for fun mind you not trying to take this too serious... are very strong in my opinion and the reasons not, are very weak if all we have is, "they said never". Common man... you know better. How many times has that one bit them? And the silence? Again, it is clear what they want is to do whatever they feel is right and never to be held to anything they ever say... ever.

And that is perfectly fine with me. It should be that way. We should bot be holding them to these things. And that is why I feel they could have just looked at a number of factors and changed their minds.

It is just as simple as that. And the last 6 years have been just exactly that. Going up a certain road and just saying, well, time to change.

And I think rental is more than just an Adobe anomaly. It is coming. And if NewTek wants to compete, they are going to at least have to offer it as an option. That is one thing I'll bet you can count on in the next 2 years if not sooner. regardless of what anyone has said.

hrgiger
10-12-2014, 06:56 AM
im all in favor of them offering subscriptions as an option, especially if they do it like the corona renderer where you can pay per month and theres no minimum contract length.

As far as the messiah thing goes, I just dont see it being NT because they seem to be indicating there will be more development resources for Messiah and thats certainly not LW3DG. Theyre stretched thin as they are now between LW, Nevron, CS and Im sure they also work on the graphic components of their video products like the tricaster.

jasonwestmas
10-12-2014, 09:06 AM
im all in favor of them offering subscriptions as an option, especially if they do it like the corona renderer where you can pay per month and theres no minimum contract length.

As far as the messiah thing goes, I just dont see it being NT because they seem to be indicating there will be more development resources for Messiah and thats certainly not LW3DG. Theyre stretched thin as they are now between LW, Nevron, CS and Im sure they also work on the graphic components of their video products like the tricaster.

That would be my thought as well. LW3dG is too small with too many products to support as it is. I some how doubt that messiah integration is one of the options. Not that anyone was thinking that except me.

m.d.
10-12-2014, 11:05 AM
Development resources is another thing I can't see Newtek helping with as well....

Betting Mixamo, ikinema, or unity.....

jeric_synergy
10-12-2014, 11:10 AM
I'm with the "LW3dG's plate is full" crowd. Don't see it.

Can't we figure out a way to wager on these que$tion$?

hazmat777
10-12-2014, 12:43 PM
Long shots that may not have been mentioned, what about MOI or Silo? Just throwing it out there...

m.d.
10-12-2014, 12:48 PM
Silo pretty much ceased development 5 years ago.....

I'll give you 25-1 odds on that :)

m.d.
10-12-2014, 12:55 PM
In reality the buyer could completely come out if left field....we are all thinking in a horizontal integration mindset....the buyer could come from a completely separate side of the industry.

The last people who I expected to buy octane would have been OTOY...who previously had just licensed Paul debevecs light stage technology...

hazmat777
10-12-2014, 01:03 PM
Silo pretty much ceased development 5 years ago.....

I'll give you 25-1 odds on that :)

My mistake, I meant to say Rhino. Whoops.

ernpchan
10-12-2014, 01:07 PM
What are the odds on C4D?

OnlineRender
10-12-2014, 01:08 PM
What are the odds on C4D?

I'll give you 4-1

ernpchan
10-12-2014, 01:24 PM
Sounds about right. Seeing as how C4D already reads lwo and lws files it'd be an easy jump to messiah. They already dominate mograph. It would give them an inroad to character stuff. Their easy integration into AfterEffects makes doing vfx work a player.

Photoshop recently added this but I think the odds on Adobe are longer.
http://www.cgchannel.com/2014/10/adobe-releases-photoshop-cc-2014-2/

hazmat777
10-12-2014, 01:31 PM
Sounds about right. Seeing as how C4D already reads lwo and lws files it'd be an easy jump to messiah. They already dominate mograph. It would give them an inroad to character stuff. Their easy integration into AfterEffects makes doing vfx work a player.

Photoshop recently added this but I think the odds on Adobe are longer.
http://www.cgchannel.com/2014/10/adobe-releases-photoshop-cc-2014-2/

Just to add a little levity to the speculation, this reminds me of that Seinfeld with Kramer betting on departures and arrivals with that guy at the airport. We will know soon enough I suspect. :D

ernpchan
10-12-2014, 01:40 PM
Ha yes. Considering the energy in this thread, the announcement better be a "Oh no they didn't!" moment.

probiner
10-12-2014, 01:57 PM
So is there a scoreboard and a bid? :D I don't get all the hype. It's like there's a transfer of the enjoyment and speculation of LW related info cast onto Messiah, ehehe :p
By the way, generous people gave me a Share and Dare license and I upgraded it. I'm curious about what will happen, just not sure if the hype is justified.

Cheers

jasonwestmas
10-12-2014, 03:00 PM
:D I don't get all the hype.


Messiah studio is cool and in the right hands it could wipe the floor with a lot of other animation software. At least that's how I feel about it.

Wickedpup
10-12-2014, 03:33 PM
Silo pretty much ceased development 5 years ago.....

I'll give you 25-1 odds on that :)
They released Silo 2.3 in July with 64-bit versions for OSX and Linux, the Win version is probably out soon. So there is some sign of life. (Never believed I would say that ;D)

probiner
10-12-2014, 04:22 PM
Messiah studio is cool and the right hands it could wipe the floor with a lot of other animation software. At least that's how I feel about it.

For sure I hope some rational and powerful rigging pipeline outside Autodesk can emerge. Voodoo might show up anytime but that's not going to be for everybody, right?

I can relate to the feeling just don't feel the hype.

Cheers

Megalodon2.0
10-12-2014, 04:25 PM
im all in favor of them offering subscriptions as an option, especially if they do it like the corona renderer where you can pay per month and theres no minimum contract length.

As far as the messiah thing goes, I just dont see it being NT because they seem to be indicating there will be more development resources for Messiah and thats certainly not LW3DG. Theyre stretched thin as they are now between LW, Nevron, CS and Im sure they also work on the graphic components of their video products like the tricaster.


That would be my thought as well. LW3dG is too small with too many products to support as it is. I some how doubt that messiah integration is one of the options. Not that anyone was thinking that except me.

But since when has this stopped NT from spreading itself thinner? Instead of concentrating on LW, they CHOSE to spread themselves thinner by adding Nevron and Chronosculpt development. If you're trying to improve your primary application AND your resources are severely limited, you don't go off on a tangent and develop other "complimenting" applications. But they did. I see no reason why they wouldn't acquire Messiah as well. They'd bring on Fori as primary developer and add a couple more to work under him.

The only reason I'd say it's NOT NT/LW3DG is the subscription angle. But then again, I do agree with Surrealist in that they can change plans any time they want. Offering subscription as an option - perhaps just for Messiah - would help the income AND test the waters. Then again, considering how MANY people view NT and LW outside, it wouldn't (IMO) bode well for people signing on to buy or subscribe to Messiah.

In any event, I've got MS6 so it won't matter to me either way. ;)

hrgiger
10-12-2014, 05:11 PM
People keep saying "buyer" but ive not seen any indication that Messiah was sold, sounds more like an agreement between pmg and another entity.

jasonwestmas
10-12-2014, 06:42 PM
But since when has this stopped NT from spreading itself thinner? Instead of concentrating on LW, they CHOSE to spread themselves thinner by adding Nevron and Chronosculpt development. If you're trying to improve your primary application AND your resources are severely limited, you don't go off on a tangent and develop other "complimenting" applications. But they did. I see no reason why they wouldn't acquire Messiah as well. They'd bring on Fori as primary developer and add a couple more to work under him.

The only reason I'd say it's NOT NT/LW3DG is the subscription angle. But then again, I do agree with Surrealist in that they can change plans any time they want. Offering subscription as an option - perhaps just for Messiah - would help the income AND test the waters. Then again, considering how MANY people view NT and LW outside, it wouldn't (IMO) bode well for people signing on to buy or subscribe to Messiah.

In any event, I've got MS6 so it won't matter to me either way. ;)

I was assuming that LW3DG had some common sense and would not take on another specialty app., plugin or whatever. :)

Based on the emails I got from pmg it sounds like a partnership of some kind but I don't see why it couldn't also mean that a company is absorbing the rights to the software. But I would be surprised unless Fori has had personality change. Fori a LW3DG emloyee lol, that would totally blow my mind. That guy is a big mystery and not much of a team player from what I gather.

Ernest
10-12-2014, 08:09 PM
A company that has a strong enough product lineup to absorb pmg, but has no character animation pipeline, but it would fit as their next step. Also a company that accepts the pricing deals of the products they absorb, even if it's something like Sculptris continuing to be free. And no, I'm not really optimistic enough to actually believe its Pixologic, but I'll dream about it until the final revelation.

Megalodon2.0
10-12-2014, 08:23 PM
I was assuming that LW3DG had some common sense and would not take on another specialty app., plugin or whatever. :)
Why wold you say that when (IMO) common sense would have dictated that they concentrate on Lightwave and not develop Nevron or Chrono?

Based on the emails I got from pmg it sounds like a partnership of some kind but I don't see why it couldn't also mean that a company is absorbing the rights to the software. But I would be surprised unless Fori has had personality change. Fori a LW3DG emloyee lol, that would totally blow my mind. That guy is a big mystery and not much of a team player from what I gather.
You mean like David Ikeda? ;)

From what I've gathered, Fori (don't know if I saw that on SetupTab or CGTalk or...) is working on another project in addition to Messiah so I wouldn't be surprised if he decided that NOW is the time to do something different and help Messiah mature using someone elses resources.

Surrealist.
10-12-2014, 08:50 PM
But I would be surprised unless Fori has had personality change. Fori a LW3DG emloyee lol, that would totally blow my mind. That guy is a big mystery and not much of a team player from what I gather.

That's funny, the one thing I think pmg and LW 3DG group have in common, horrible public relations with the user base community. And even funnier is even more so in the last few months. Lw 3D Group has taken on even more and more of Flori's personality, which in a nutshell, is to stay secluded and develop, silently. No interaction whatever with the users. Then when they are finished, they announce what they a have already done. Other companies I have dealt with are constantly interacting with the user base - even if not revealing secrets. At least they are present - pretty much all the time.

Now LW 3DG over the last few months goes even more silent, even more "reclusive".

Talk about a perfect match.

As I am reading these posts, I say, the question ought to be, where is the honeymoon going to take place, not if anymore. :D

And about being a team player. It was David Ikea who actually recently quit - as I recall him saying - not fired. Another co-incidence. And again, leaving open a salary potentially.... so again... spreading themselves thin? Sounds more like they had a slot open and this could lead anywhere. And where is LW weakest in?

lol this is fun.

m.d.
10-12-2014, 10:14 PM
They released Silo 2.3 in July with 64-bit versions for OSX and Linux, the Win version is probably out soon. So there is some sign of life. (Never believed I would say that ;D)

Wow.....that is news to me...
I hope silo continues....great software, cool developers

visualbug
10-12-2014, 11:11 PM
Silo still alive? wow! this is a nice news jajaja the problem with nevercenter, is revenue, they left silo development to create a few iphone apps, to find some money I guess. Now they are back in track......
ohh sorry we are talking about messiah.............the offer time finish, no news at all................like always fori marketing style....

Surrealist.
10-13-2014, 01:45 AM
well in the past these deals stayed in the site for quite some time after the deadline. And I don't think he every said the deadline was in sync with any announcements.

That will come when LE 3dG is good and ready... he he he

kopperdrake
10-13-2014, 01:46 AM
Should we also read something into the email from pmG concerning Mac development possibly being continued, and offering Mac users the chance to jump on board? This could imply that the as-yet-unknown-mysterious-third-party also develops a Mac version which will need to work nicely with Messiah?

meatycheesyboy
10-13-2014, 08:29 AM
well in the past these deals stayed in the site for quite some time after the deadline. And I don't think he every said the deadline was in sync with any announcements.

The last email said "There's only 48 hrs left to take advantage of our offer, before we close it out." So, you're right, he never tied the announcement to a date but did tie the deal to a date.

jeric_synergy
10-13-2014, 08:32 AM
Should we also read something into the email ......
As if anybody here could resist?

scratch33
10-13-2014, 08:54 AM
honestly this sounds like doing a buzz to take some money like last time they have made this kind of offer. Then? nothing...

No thanks. Better to send 20 bucks to a charitable organization. Then, if something interresting happens, I am willing to pay the new price.

jburford
10-13-2014, 09:17 AM
That's funny, the one thing I think pmg and LW 3DG group have in common, horrible public relations with the user base community. And even funnier is even more so in the last few months. Lw 3D Group has taken on even more and more of Flori's personality, which in a nutshell, is to stay secluded and develop, silently. No interaction whatever with the users. Then when they are finished, they announce what they a have already done. Other companies I have dealt with are constantly interacting with the user base - even if not revealing secrets. At least they are present - pretty much all the time.

Now LW 3DG over the last few months goes even more silent, even more "reclusive".




Sorry, but I feel this is a little over the Top and heavy handed here. Comparing Newtek to PMG/Fori is like comparing hmmmnn, not certain what to offer up. Newtek has always had a functioning Forum with at least 1-3 Admins/employees answering Messages, from time to time. Had time to time showcased their Product and Workflow with others. Been at least accepting problems to work on fixing and worked on fixing some of them.

PMG/Fori avoids all until it needs money then asks/begs/offer $10-$20 Deals for "A limited time" to then disappear again for the next 2-3 years. Does not respond to users or feedback, does not showcase much anything and does not have much a a functioning Forum. Those running the Forum (not a part of PMG), disappear often for 1-2 years leaving most all in disarray. On the Messiah Forum only 2-3 Bigger Users actually keep it alive what they can.

Messiah has probably lost 98% of all users the last 2-3 years, probably lucky if more than 20-50 users world-wide still going strong with it.

There are only a couple of companies in the business that really offer an insight to what they are developing and to what actual direction they are taking. The main ones that come to my mind are 3D Coat and Blender...

or what other ones do the same?

Cheers

jeric_synergy
10-13-2014, 09:32 AM
No thanks. Better to send 20 bucks to a charitable organization.
If you want to send some money anywhere, I suggest you send it to Denis Pontonnier-- we get fantastic tools from him constantly. How much is DP Verdure worth?

http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/main_en.htm

scratch33
10-13-2014, 09:35 AM
If you want to send some money anywhere, I suggest you send it to Denis Pontonnier-- we get fantastic tools from him constantly. How much is DP Verdure worth?

http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/main_en.htm

:thumbsup:

Totally agree on this.

Does he continuing to develop for lw?

jburford
10-13-2014, 09:39 AM
From what I've gathered, Fori (don't know if I saw that on SetupTab or CGTalk or...) is working on another project in addition to Messiah so I wouldn't be surprised if he decided that NOW is the time to do something different and help Messiah mature using someone elses resources.


LOL, "Mature"?

In it's current state (more like dead, in the grave) it would need more the likes of Jesus Christ to awaken the Dead and bring it back to functioning Life again. Could almost more believe in the Easter Bunny bringing Gifts of Joy to all in the Middle East making Peace on Earth!


But hey, I must be a Fool, cause I am curious where it is heading or at all what might be possible with it in the right hands.

Only Time will Tell. (question is how much time, as the last 24 hours has come and went already) So, when will such announcement take place if at all?

Cheers

Surrealist.
10-13-2014, 10:03 AM
There was no promise on when the announcement would occur. Only as to when the offer was over.

As to an announcement, I still say when LW 3D group is good and ready. :D

Sorry but I can't take this too seriously.

Surrealist.
10-13-2014, 10:08 AM
Sorry, but I feel this is a little over the Top and heavy handed here. Comparing Newtek to PMG/Fori is like comparing hmmmnn, not certain what to offer up. Newtek has always had a functioning Forum with at least 1-3 Admins/employees answering Messages, from time to time. Had time to time showcased their Product and Workflow with others. Been at least accepting problems to work on fixing and worked on fixing some of them.

PMG/Fori avoids all until it needs money then asks/begs/offer $10-$20 Deals for "A limited time" to then disappear again for the next 2-3 years. Does not respond to users or feedback, does not showcase much anything and does not have much a a functioning Forum. Those running the Forum (not a part of PMG), disappear often for 1-2 years leaving most all in disarray. On the Messiah Forum only 2-3 Bigger Users actually keep it alive what they can.

Messiah has probably lost 98% of all users the last 2-3 years, probably lucky if more than 20-50 users world-wide still going strong with it.

There are only a couple of companies in the business that really offer an insight to what they are developing and to what actual direction they are taking. The main ones that come to my mind are 3D Coat and Blender...

or what other ones do the same?

Cheers

Not even going to take the time to point out each one. But every one of your comparisons could easily go the other way. Lost 98 percent of its users... hmmmm.... that sounds familiar....

Not going to lock horns with you on this, I understand your points, well made and understood.

Just, wow, seems like the more this is discussed, the more this goes from something I was just kinda poking fun at to something that might well be real.

- - - Updated - - -


LOL, "Mature"?

In it's current state (more like dead, in the grave)

But this one, sorry. Will have to just flatly disagree. Messiah is a great piece of software.

bazsa73
10-13-2014, 12:19 PM
Stating that "Messiah is dead" is untrue. Messiah is a neglected kid on the street. Only a few understand him
but those who do are amazed by his talents.

meatycheesyboy
10-13-2014, 01:14 PM
This was a terrible week for them to decide to end the sale. People are going to expect an announcement when the sale is over yet they had the sale end on a weekend leading into an American holiday today.

jeric_synergy
10-13-2014, 01:42 PM
What was rather lame about that is, give a g.d. date and time. GMT time, preferably, and STATE that in the announcement. (That bit me once, but Kat was gracious enough to extend it past my confusion.)

jburford
10-13-2014, 03:51 PM
Messiah is an awesome piece of Software, meant dead in the eyes of the professional community and majority of it's user base. Not from its abilities, but run into the ground and destroyed down.

Can imagine Fori showing anyone who is interested in working with it, the Massive list of Users from the Dare to Share Campaign, not telling that it was all given out for $10-20 or that all have left except perhaps a dozen of those from that period.

Megalodon2.0
10-13-2014, 04:03 PM
Messiah is an awesome piece of Software, meant dead in the eyes of the professional community and majority of it's user base. Not from its abilities, but run into the ground and destroyed down.

Can imagine Fori showing anyone who is interested in working with it, the Massive list of Users from the Dare to Share Campaign, not telling that it was all given out for $10-20 or that all have left except perhaps a dozen of those from that period.

I don't think you give any potential buyer enough credit. I'm sure that ANY company would have done due diligence regarding the shape and userbase of the software - as well as know the circumstances as to WHY it is available to these potential buyers. Perhaps this is a company that actually understands what the software can and does do AND knows that it will complement their own application? Regardless, it's not like the history of PMG is hidden.

jburford
10-13-2014, 04:15 PM
We'll have to wait and see what, if anything, comes of it all.

I hear you, and common sense dictates that what you say Megaladon, but again, from what I have seen the last 30 years or so going down, really makes one shake their head.

Surrealist.
10-13-2014, 10:39 PM
Well I was making just that point in fact jburford. When this idea first came up months ago on the forum here on yet another "why LightWave is dead or doomed or sucks or whatever" thread. Regarding "hey why not just acquire Messiah" with the idea this would boost the perception of LW as a character tool to new users and open up a new market - more or less as people would then see LW as a viable animation alternative.

I was thinking, are you serious? What actual advantage? Messiah is already a plugin, the forums over there are "dead", most of us already have it.... flori is this or that...etc etc etc. I thought. Nah! Bad idea.

So this was not my first thought - by a long shot - come this announcement. But I got to thinking about it objectively as people were talking and some interesting points were made that got me thinking more. Then I started in... ha ha ha.... well now I am almost convinced it can be no other.

Here are the strongest points I see as to why this would be an advantage to LW:

1) Yes they are spread thin. Obviously. Turing LightWave around is a huge project. And for this reason they have had to focus on projects with lesser expectations and faster release times as well as fixes using the existing tool set technology and workflow. That in a nutshell has been the development cycle after core. Even Bullet and Instancing was a process of taking development already done and porting it over. It was not from scratch and thus it happened fairly quickly. What followed was more immediate development cycles and releases so they could generate income.

So now where do they get the time and resources to completely fix the character animation issues in LW. Genoma? Simply uses Skellegons in a creative way. Nothing really new there. Nevron. New. But simple alternative mocap solution reach a niche market.

And this is where Messiah comes in from a development standpoint. Years of development already done. Works with the current workflow of LW without having to change everything. Yet the pay off us huge.

2) Perception and Access

So you ask, but wait, this already exists? Why does it make a difference? Well because when new people come to LW, over and over and over again it has to be mentioned... oh and don't forget, along with Blender and Modo (even Maya) as companions to LW, don't forget good old Messiah.... who? Its cheap its fast, it rocks actually... What? There is about 0 awareness of Messiah.

Alternatively a new person comes to LW, they are hit with Messiah right off the bat with this as the companion of choice to LightWave. It already works as a plugin, it has years of development behind it. And you can purchase this as well along with LW. Package deals can be made.

3) Helps corner the market. Now rather than LW 3D having a user base be forced to recommend other solutions for CA, now they own and can sell an option that is probably one of the best available as an option. This makes a big difference. Rather than buying into another workflow, the user buys into LW, buys into this workflow and can keep it all here if they want. This is brilliant marketing IMHO.

4) Is a perfect marriage. There are both similarities and dissimilarities between PMG and NewTek. Some of the weaknesses in both sides can be enhanced by the other when you add them up.

5) This buys more time. Unification is a huge project. They get the immediate benefit and can continue to unify LW. And when they do - whenever that is - they will already have their hands on Messiah which is an awesome CA tool. It is quite possible they have plans to later integrate these tools into LW. Highly speculative.

I am now of the opinion that if NT did not buy Messiah they missed the boat.

That is 180 degrees from my first reaction to the idea.

OF course... ha ha ha , I could be completely wrong... but... well time will tell.

Megalodon2.0
10-13-2014, 11:57 PM
I am now of the opinion that if NT did not buy Messiah they missed the boat.

That is 180 degrees from my first reaction to the idea.

OF course... ha ha ha , I could be completely wrong... but... well time will tell.

Well... then I'll be right there along with you. I've been thinking the same thing for some time - pretty much since the start of this last PMG announcement.

In fact NOW I'll be very disappointed if NT isn't the one to "acquire" Messiah. But then... I've been disappointed before. :D

visualbug
10-14-2014, 11:39 PM
investments, investments everywhere in the 3d industry, now with akeytsu animation software that is not in the market.....
but the difference is at nukeygara company (creators of akeytsu ), 2 persons only, they COMMUNICATE to the users
and HEY! they don't have any users yet........... :)
Fori and messiah studio team, if there is any team, they need to learn a little bit :)

Hi everybody !

As mentioned previously we remained quite silent until now as we are deeply focused on development… but it was not the only reason .
Since SIGGRAPH we have been discussing an investment opportunity with a potential partner, and we are making great progress there. That is excellent news for nukeygara as it will allow us to complete the development and offer you an improved first version of akeytsu. However it means we will shift the launch of akeytsu nanno version by a few months… but not too much so that we can deliver a great experience.

Stay tuned !
Follow us on twitter @akeytsu and like us at Facebook.com/akeytsu

Aurélien Charrier
CEO at nukeygara

Surrealist.
10-15-2014, 12:29 AM
Yeah you communicate with your - yet to have user base - by hijacking threads? :D

Anyways, heard good things about you guys here:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?142991-akeytsu-Company-NY-SHOULD-consider-doing-a-partnership

Maybe you should bump that one as well. :)

visualbug
10-15-2014, 06:09 AM
jaja well, the idea is "comparing" how different companies big or small talk to the users IN the SAME situation
"investment opportunity with a potential partner" or "mystery Super awesome Company that is going to change the industry, pay me more money now!!!" in this case..... the offer is over and nothing happens, even they can say "HI users" thank you for your support, bla bla bla.....

Always Fori and his awesome marketing "milking the cow" style...............that I don't like, so yes, I am a little angry to see an awesome software like messiah surviving like this......
"hijacking" not really, I am not planning to buy/use akeytsu any time soon.......

I am a blender user learning lightwave ;)

Surrealist.
10-15-2014, 06:41 AM
oh.... lol

No, Sorry. I am a little slow at times.

I did not get at all that this was an email you were pasting... lol

visualbug
10-15-2014, 07:12 AM
jajaja No problem, I wish I can work in a company like that jajaja,
but is true, I forgot to specify "that" part of the text is a message from Aurélien Charrier
CEO at nukeygara in the facebook page ;)

probiner
10-16-2014, 04:51 PM
Installed it today.
Started crying when I saw TCB :D
But unlike LW if you animate object from A to B, hold B, B to A, the object does not stay still in B for a moment, in messiah it does: http://prntscr.com/4wv0ki

Though if I move one of the keys and put it back, same thing like LW happens. http://prntscr.com/4wv14n

Anyways, I don't know how practical it will be do try to do something in it just for now.
Guess like more I'm here for the futureware :D

bazsa73
10-17-2014, 11:19 AM
Installed it today.
Started crying when I saw TCB :D
But unlike LW if you animate object from A to B, hold B, B to A, the object does not stay still in B for a moment, in messiah it does: http://prntscr.com/4wv0ki

Though if I move one of the keys and put it back, same thing like LW happens. http://prntscr.com/4wv14n

Anyways, I don't know how practical it will be do try to do something in it just for now.
Guess like more I'm here for the futureware :D
Tip: right click on "Customize" menu (upper row) , lowest submenu Graph view -> Draw Smooth Curves

meatycheesyboy
10-18-2014, 03:21 PM
Well, I'm ready to say I was suckered. We're a full week past the end of the sale and two things are jumping out at me:

a.) still no announcement
b.) the sale pages are still up

Unless part of the announcement is that the management of Messiah is moving to a more competent company in which Fori isn't involved except possibly as a programmer, I'm done regardless of what else is in the pending (?) announcement.

Surrealist.
10-18-2014, 11:22 PM
Each time there has been one of these sales the prices stayed up for some time after the date.

He never promised an announcement any time around the time of the end of the promotion. And as far as I understand, that announcement is not in his hands. It is up to the company doing the acquisition.

So just to satisfy curiosity, what company would have an interest in delaying such an announcement?

meatycheesyboy
10-19-2014, 01:44 AM
Each time there has been one of these sales the prices stayed up for some time after the date.
This may be true but why then use the scare tactic of sending out daily emails exclaiming that it's the "LAST CHANCE!!!" to be included in this great deal.


He never promised an announcement any time around the time of the end of the promotion.
True, he never made an explicit promise of when an announcement is coming but when one talks of a pending announcement in the same breath that you talk about a limited time last chance deal it is not unreasonable or unexpected to think that people are going to assume they are linked. If he didn't want their to be any doubt about one leading to another, he shouldn't have mentioned them in the same e-mail.


And as far as I understand, that announcement is not in his hands. It is up to the company doing the acquisition.
Then he should have worked closely with that company to end the promotion at the same time they were ready to make the announcement because, in my opinion, it makes both of them look really amateurish.


So just to satisfy curiosity, what company would have an interest in delaying such an announcement?
My curiosity has run out. I'll just wait for the announcement to come, assuming it ever does and at that time I'll decide whether I'm going to cancel my subscription or not. In the meantime though, I did get Messiah at a good price and it is a quality piece of software so I'll just be happy about that.

spherical
10-19-2014, 01:50 AM
Not to mention the fact of the "4 Days Left", then "48 Hours Left", then "24 Hours Left" emails that came in succession; the last arriving on the 10th.

Surrealist.
10-19-2014, 03:30 AM
In the meantime though, I did get Messiah at a good price and it is a quality piece of software so I'll just be happy about that.

Yeah, exactly.

But points taken. I understand. Just giving you my take on what I think is going down and why. It has always been this way with PMG so I fully expected the deal to remain after the date. And since I have a good idea who I think has purchased Messiah, there is not too much mystery for me as to what is going on and why.

But I have already said enough in other posts about that.

All Newtek LW3DG has to do is come here and post "absolutely not" and then I am back into a complete mystery as I can not fathom who else would want and make use of Messiah or why.

Oedo 808
10-19-2014, 07:10 AM
I can understand meatycheesyboy's frustration, much like Surrealist I wasn't expecting an immediate announcement or hard and fast deadline, but that doesn't change that it's not the best idea. The reaction of someone I know to the cryptic email put out was "**** you very much" and they were completely put off by these antics even though they wouldn't have had to pay to use it. It's a shame.

I'm not particularly bothered though, A) Because rightly or wrongly it's not much of a surprise. B) Because I do feel a bit sorry for Messiah, I know many people could benefit greatly from using it, but the connection is just not being made, even though they could do more to help themselves. And C) For the price, I don't feel I'm getting a bad deal even with the shenanigans.

jburford
10-22-2014, 02:37 PM
So, what's the odds on hearing any news in this matter before the New Year? Or before the first years subscription runs out?

Surrealist.
10-22-2014, 03:52 PM
LW 3D Group and NT won't allow Flori to say anything until they announce it. I'd say it would be as good as asking when is LW 12 going to be announced.:D

Megalodon2.0
10-22-2014, 03:56 PM
LW 3D Group and NT won't allow Flori to say anything until they announce it. I'd say it would be as good as asking when is LW 12 going to be announced.:D

Good one. :)

Actually I hope you're right.

Chris S. (Fez)
10-22-2014, 04:18 PM
I bet $1 it is not Newtek.

hrgiger
10-22-2014, 07:24 PM
Of course its not Newtek.

Surrealist.
10-23-2014, 06:20 AM
You are 100 percent sure of that? I mean if you are, then I'd say a slam dunk on a bet for you. Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and wager for an upgrade to LW 12? :D

If you are, then that is indication to me you are sitting on some inside information. I'd like to know. (By this I mean someone at NT told you absolutely no)

Otherwise, I think it is interesting that in the face of all things said here you can be so certain. I am not one way or the other really. But I might be willing to wager on my inclination. :)

motivalex
10-23-2014, 07:52 AM
I doubt that either Autodesk, The foundry, Sidefx or Newtek have bought Messiah. :)

50one
10-23-2014, 07:55 AM
To anyone thinking that Newtek bought Messiah...You guys need reality check;)

jasonwestmas
10-23-2014, 07:58 AM
Richard, I bet you $50 it's not LW3DGroup/Newtek. :) That would be far too interesting for reality to take.

cresshead
10-23-2014, 08:46 AM
still no news?

Hmmm "i have a bad feeling about this"

hrgiger
10-23-2014, 09:09 AM
You are 100 percent sure of that? I mean if you are, then I'd say a slam dunk on a bet for you. Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and wager for an upgrade to LW 12? :D



No inside information. But then you don't need inside information to know that the sun is hot. It just is and everyone knows it.

I have already listed the reasons why I believe this to be the case. In what Universe would it make sense for NT to buy (or partner, I don't know why everyone is so sure they were bought by someone, that was never explicitly stated) Messiah. So, they catch flak daily for the long road that it will take for them to create a unified architecture between modeler and Layout but now they're going to add yet another application into the mix and once again, change the direction of development by making Messiah the answer to character animation in LightWave?

I hope you don't gamble like this in Vegas...

Surrealist.
10-23-2014, 10:13 AM
Well I don't gamble. Never have.

But sure absolutely I hear what you are saying man. Really I totally get it. Remember that thread a while ago someone said "hey buy Messiah..." and I was like, "are you nuts?"

For those reasons and many more.

But my main challenge to those views you have now are (rhetorically) if a bet was on the table you are going to lay your money down on what LW3D said they were going to do or not do, and what the pressure of the community is, or expects they will do?

Seriously come on.

If those are the odds, I would not put anything down on NT. Just if we are speculating. They have done nothing over the last 3 years to suggest those are good odds at all.

That is all I am saying.

Surrealist.
10-23-2014, 10:20 AM
Richard, I bet you $50 it's not LW3DGroup/Newtek. :) That would be far too interesting for reality to take.

nah... those stakes are not high enough to show a conviction to your opinion. I think it should be for a full upgrade to LW 12. :D

I am not really serious of course.... but I don't know... kicking it around.

hrgiger
10-23-2014, 10:51 AM
Honestly, I'd be put off if Newtek bought Messiah. Since they don't like talking about what they're doing and giving the whole silent treatment, its time for them to say something or do something about LightWave. Buying another application at this point would feel like a slap in the face. That's like saying they can't fix or address LightWave properly so they'll just buy or partner with messiah... I don't think they would be that foolish.

Surrealist.
10-23-2014, 11:24 AM
Now we are getting down to cases. Great honest answer. And I think this kind of sentiment is exactly why - if they did buy Messiah - they would be absolutely silent about it now.

And why there would be an absolute a gag order on Flori. And it is this one factor that actually got me thinking it might be NewTek in the first place.

I can not think of any other company with this much reason not to make it public now.

Come on. You have a guy making an announcement. Done deal. And the investor or company is not saying anything?

Waste an opportunity to PR the purchase?

And who has an interest in allowing flori to mouth off about it after the fact, deal would have to be in the bag already, yet not allow him to say who?

You are going to put out some cash for something and you are not going to take the opportunity to self-promote while an email promotion is going around?

OK enough... I could go on. No more edits, promise.

Megalodon2.0
10-23-2014, 01:06 PM
Honestly, I'd be put off if Newtek bought Messiah. Since they don't like talking about what they're doing and giving the whole silent treatment, its time for them to say something or do something about LightWave. Buying another application at this point would feel like a slap in the face. That's like saying they can't fix or address LightWave properly so they'll just buy or partner with messiah... I don't think they would be that foolish.
And how many times have we been slapped in the face already?

Everyone has their limit of "face slaps" and mine was with the LW10.1 and "that's it for updates." You apparently need more to feel seriously slapped.

Adding Nevron and Chronos as separate apps and taking away development time/money from LW wasn't a slap in the face? What's one more? I can EASILY see the LW3DG going this route and slapping yet another module on to LW or just making it another module to pay for like the two just mentioned. Why not? Slap in the face? I don't think that they'd have a problem with that.

Surrealist.
10-23-2014, 01:34 PM
Yeah I agree. I think they have done exactly everything to prove that they will change course, go the path of less resistance to a solution.

Having used Messiah, I think it really would be a great thing if more development got behind it to integrate it further.

Another view - devils advocate - is that they have completely taken a dive toward integration and Messiah is out of the picture from here forward as a plugin. And this would make PMG agreement with competition make sense. A new home for Messiah? But who?

To me though somehow that seems rather far fetched.

I would also be further surprised if they integrated Layout and also managed to add anything useful as far as CA is concerned.

But hey, surprise me LW 3D group. :)

jasonwestmas
10-23-2014, 01:56 PM
I would only regard plugins and applications that are not Lightwave specific as a slap in the face if there was no plan to use that technology to improve Lightwave later. I understand the need to develop other methods of revenue and to build something powerful without old tech getting in the way. . . And that's only if I was a die hard Lightwave fan. I'm a fan but I'm certainly not in the die hard category for any kind of software. I guess the only application feature I would really miss would be zbrush brushes. heh.

Edit:

Hence the silence is more of a slap than any new developments that have been made.

probiner
10-23-2014, 03:48 PM
Yeah I agree. I think they have done exactly everything to prove that they will change course, go the path of less resistance to a solution.

Having used Messiah, I think it really would be a great thing if more development got behind it to integrate it further.

Another view - devils advocate - is that they have completely taken a dive toward integration and Messiah is out of the picture from here forward as a plugin. And this would make PMG agreement with competition make sense. A new home for Messiah? But who?

To me though somehow that seems rather far fetched.

I would also be further surprised if they integrated Layout and also managed to add anything useful as far as CA is concerned.

But hey, surprise me LW 3D group. :)

I don't get when XSI death was announced you went all "Woohoo more to Maya!" but do you think LW + Messiah add up to XSI or a Maya alternative?
Mixed messages... Doesn't Maya cover all your Animation needs?

So much to be done in LW foundations to make it step up from scene management to Rigging, to Animation that I don't get how acquiring Messiah would do anything at this point...

JohnMarchant
10-23-2014, 04:08 PM
Agreed, probiner, i hope NT has not got Messiah as much as i hope NT dont get LWCad or any of the other excellent plugins out there. If they get any of these then development
will grind to a crawl.

LW and Messiah never equaled Maya even when Messiah was able to plugin to LW so if NT did buy it dont see it would make any difference to LW. We have Genoma and the wonderful RHiggit2, so we are covered in the animation department. With some improvement in Genoma i don't see what Messiah would bring to the mix that it does not already.

Surrealist.
10-23-2014, 04:19 PM
I don't get when XSI death was announced you went all "Woohoo more to Maya!" but do you think LW + Messiah add up to XSI or a Maya alternative?
Mixed messages... Doesn't Maya cover all your Animation needs?

So much to be done in LW foundations to make it step up from scene management to Rigging, to Animation that I don't get how acquiring Messiah would do anything at this point...


Animation sure, but special effects are weak and this is why I welcome the devs to Maya. They also brought some much better functionality to the modeling tools from XSI that I actually liked as well as working on new nodal stuff. Maya is going to get a lot of love it has been missing in other areas. I still have and occasionally use XSI. I like it. And am looking forward to get more time to play with ICE.

But for VFX I think I am going to start looking seriously at Houdini.

I don't think LightWave plus anything would add up to Maya/XSI. Why would I make that leap? Why would you assume that I would? I just have opinions about LightWave completely separately as to what I think is happening, now here with this app. This is not a comment about my personal preferences.

But that said, having used Messiah it is a great animation program. So acquiring Messiah has several advantages. Development can get a more LightWave/centric focus. And now LW users can have another option to use for animation - again presumably - much more integrated as a plugin for LW.

Many of the issues that LW has in Layout are not an issue in Messiah. And some of the Messiah issues can be worked on. With better integration it could be a powerful combo.

The fundamental changes you are referring to are years away (in my opinion) before anything meaningful can happen to CA in LightWave as an integrated or otherwise.

In the mean time there could be this Lightave/Messiah duo to help fill that void.

It is very much in step with how they have been handling things lately. Not sure why the idea of this comes so far from left feild.

It is just an idea.

Megalodon2.0
10-23-2014, 04:21 PM
Agreed, probiner, i hope NT has not got Messiah as much as i hope NT dont get LWCad or any of the other excellent plugins out there. If they get any of these then development
will grind to a crawl.

LW and Messiah never equaled Maya even when Messiah was able to plugin to LW so if NT did buy it dont see it would make any difference to LW. We have Genoma and the wonderful RHiggit2, so we are covered in the animation department. With some improvement in Genoma i don't see what Messiah would bring to the mix that it does not already.

You're joking right? Have you seen the playback speed of Messiah? It puts LW to shame. To think that LW w/Rhiggit is on par with Messiah is very misguided. I've only played with Messiah a little and been working with LW since '96 - Messiah is FAR better in CA than LW is or probably will be in the foreseeable future.

And regarding acquisition and development grinding to a crawl... I would say that Messiah development is already AT that point.

Surrealist.
10-23-2014, 04:29 PM
A With some improvement in Genoma i don't see what Messiah would bring to the mix that it does not already.

I in my opinion there is a world of difference between animating in Messiah over LW. And it still works as a Plugin as far as I know. Development has been kept current in that regard.

And that is just the animation side. Messiah brings a lot of cool tools to the table as well.

Messiah already is a boon to LW. The difference here is, they would control it and the perception and awareness goes way up.

Anyways I think we have gone on way too long.

NT has to end this misery. :)

Surrealist.
10-23-2014, 04:32 PM
You're joking right? Have you seen the playback speed of Messiah?

Yeah it is stupid fast. And armatures (controllers) actually my favorite of any app I have used. There are a ton of goodies in that app.

Megalodon2.0
10-23-2014, 04:52 PM
IAnyways I think we have gone on way too long.

NT has to end this misery. :)
Agreed. If they bought it/acquired it... just come out and say yes OR no. One way or the other. Please.


Yeah it is stupid fast. And armatures (controllers) actually my favorite of any app I have used. There are a ton of goodies in that app.
Definitely. The little I played with it, it was extremely fast. (I REALLY need time to learn it and get used to it.) I really would like LW3DG to acquire it and work with Fori to incorporate it into LW. But then... how easy would this be with the current LW architecture?

jasonwestmas
10-23-2014, 04:57 PM
In rigging and deformations and animation workflow Messiah is soooo much more advanced than layout is currently even with 3rd party plugins. . .

BTW the Messiah plugin still works in Layout which is great for testing out your shots as you work and setup your final lws render scene.

JohnMarchant
10-23-2014, 04:58 PM
Exactly gentlemen which is why i hope NT does not get hold of Messiah. Im not saying that Messiah is not good its great and ive been using it for years. Not done much CA in last few years so not sure if the plugin stills works well. Genoma and RHiggit are not replacements, well not at the moment. We can still use Messiah and within LW and i hope it continues.

My problem with NT getting hold of it would be that we may end up with another half arsed plugin, not fully implemented. I would rather NT got the Devs of Messiah to work on LW Rigging and animation, but why would they if they go to the logical conclusion with Genoma. We have had some good stuff in the 10/11 LW Cycle but there are many partially implemented things, bullet being a prime example.

I would be happy for Messiah to continue and to use it within LW but not part of LW. Like LWCad, it shows the way ahead in many area's for LW Modeler but i would not like to see it incorporated into LW Modeler. These great plugins are better as stand alone plugins.

jburford
10-23-2014, 05:21 PM
I bet $1 it is not Newtek.


Lol, $1? I heard the next version of Messiah would only be $1.99. :-)

jburford
10-23-2014, 05:31 PM
Back on topic, for some reason, I do not believe we will have the answers we seek before the end of the year. And then the question if the "planned" venture actually
goes through or not. And in my eyes, there had actually be something behind all of this to back it up, not just some ploy.

calilifestyle
10-23-2014, 06:18 PM
Back on topic, for some reason, I do not believe we will have the answers we seek before the end of the year. And then the question if the "planned" venture actually
goes through or not. And in my eyes, there had actually be something behind all of this to back it up, not just some ploy.

Yeah if anything maybe they got an offer for that 3d tv with out the 3d glasses and with it messiah was part of the deal. I mean its hard to say since it has been 2 years right..

probiner
10-23-2014, 06:35 PM
Animation sure, but special effects are weak and this is why I welcome the devs to Maya. They also brought some much better functionality to the modeling tools from XSI that I actually liked as well as working on new nodal stuff. Maya is going to get a lot of love it has been missing in other areas. I still have and occasionally use XSI. I like it. And am looking forward to get more time to play with ICE.

But for VFX I think I am going to start looking seriously at Houdini.

I don't think LightWave plus anything would add up to Maya/XSI. Why would I make that leap? Why would you assume that I would? I just have opinions about LightWave completely separately as to what I think is happening, now here with this app. This is not a comment about my personal preferences.

But that said, having used Messiah it is a great animation program. So acquiring Messiah has several advantages. Development can get a more LightWave/centric focus. And now LW users can have another option to use for animation - again presumably - much more integrated as a plugin for LW.

Many of the issues that LW has in Layout are not an issue in Messiah. And some of the Messiah issues can be worked on. With better integration it could be a powerful combo.

The fundamental changes you are referring to are years away (in my opinion) before anything meaningful can happen to CA in LightWave as an integrated or otherwise.

In the mean time there could be this Lightave/Messiah duo to help fill that void.

It is very much in step with how they have been handling things lately. Not sure why the idea of this comes so far from left feild.

It is just an idea.

Yeah but Messiah has nothing to do with VFX. ICE is not VFX. It's a visual programming environment, unlike most other nodal environments, except for Splice. Indeed Houdini is the candidate.

So I still don't get the hype about Messiah going one here, like it's "Pancakes: Now with messiah flavour". You aren't crucially depending on it and you got Animation covered in Maya...

So Messiah doesn't share some issues of Layout. How does that improve the user experience in Layout when you bundle them together?

If the changes to LW are years away, then you'll get the same Messiah + LW combo you have today and nothing more... for years... (The displacement modifier doesn't work anymore?). I don't get your idea of what more would they do together that they don't do already.

How have they been "handling things" lately, and how does that relate to Messiah in the picture?

Right now, a sideline modeling app with a timeline, with solid development, foundations and resources shared across the application would do much more for everything in LightWave; Scene management, Rigging and Animation included, than bolting in Messiah.

And yes, you're happy for Maya, but all this talk tells me you're also looking for something new to show up. Because, more over in light of the recent events, Maya's now even more alone as the go-to Animation software. Competition is a fine thing.

Cheers

jasonwestmas
10-23-2014, 07:04 PM
If the changes to LW are years away, then you'll get the same Messiah + LW combo you have today and nothing more... for years... (The displacement modifier doesn't work anymore?)

How have they been "handling things" lately, and how does that relate to Messiah in the picture?

Right now, a sideline modeling app with a timeline, solid foundations and resources shared across the application would do much more for everything in LightWave; Scene management, Rigging and Animation included, than bolting in Messiah.

You have to accurately weigh the pros and cons of adding messiah as a 3rd party extension to Layout. For many types of projects, especially more complex ones. (characters for one which can become more tedious than it has to be if you don't have the right tools), I can see many time-saving uses for adding messiah and it does things you simply can't do with Layout because Layout does not offer the finesse or it flat out is just missing key features that animators take for granted in other apps. Messiah is for people that do a lot of animation all the time and for detailed deformations, which is intensive on the software/hardware and on workflow management.

In a way, a good analogy would be like saying why do I need zbrush if I have modo. What does zbrush have that I can't do in modo. Well, I think anyone who has used both apps. equally would be able to form an opinion on that one. You might need zbrush or you may not, it totally depends on how much control or finesse you need, it's totally subjective guys.

The messiah displacement modifier still works which is great for previewing through layout cameras. But for final animation bakes people use mdd.

probiner
10-23-2014, 07:38 PM
I'm glad you didn't suggested Zbrush to be incorporated in Modo to solve its issues with sculpting or painting :D

So Messiah already works with LW, how much more integration you need or you think you would get with it being acquired?

Anyways, looking forward to hear from Fori.

Cheers

jwiede
10-23-2014, 08:49 PM
But my main challenge to those views you have now are (rhetorically) if a bet was on the table you are going to lay your money down on what LW3D said they were going to do or not do, and what the pressure of the community is, or expects they will do?

You incur NONE of the bet's risk, while they incur ALL the risk -- if you lose they get nothing, so there's no upside for them. Most folks with even a shred of common sense wouldn't consider such a bet because it's so imbalanced w.r.t. risk/reward, without their conviction about Messiahs future ever entering their consideration. Maybe if you were willing to incur equal risk in the name of your own convictions, you might find folks interested in making a (more fairly risk-assessed) bet.

Megalodon2.0
10-23-2014, 09:05 PM
You incur NONE of the bet's risk, while they incur ALL the risk -- if you lose they get nothing, so there's no upside for them. Most folks with even a shred of common sense wouldn't consider such a bet because it's so imbalanced w.r.t. risk/reward, without their conviction about Messiahs future ever entering their consideration. Maybe if you were willing to incur equal risk in the name of your own convictions, you might find folks interested in making a (more fairly risk-assessed) bet.

So I must assume that you can't see he's pretty much joking around?

Ernest
10-23-2014, 11:50 PM
And we're all assuming that the possible acquisition is for Messiah's character animation toolset. It could be that someone wanted some specific parts of Arnold's rendering tech and they'll throw all the rest out the window.

There was an episode of the Simpsons where Homer is eating red tide Plankton at a 33 cent store and Marge points out that it's past the expiration date and rejected by the Mexican ministry of health, and he sobs and says, "but it's so cheap!" and keeps eating. And I have no idea why that came into my mind just now. Probably no relation.

bazsa73
10-24-2014, 01:25 AM
And we're all assuming that the possible acquisition is for Messiah's character animation toolset. It could be that someone wanted some specific parts of Arnold's rendering tech and they'll throw all the rest out the window.

There was an episode of the Simpsons where Homer is eating red tide Plankton at a 33 cent store and Marge points out that it's past the expiration date and rejected by the Mexican ministry of health, and he sobs and says, "but it's so cheap!" and keeps eating. And I have no idea why that came into my mind just now. Probably no relation.
Because things always get worse and life is a disappointment. That's why. So probably Messiah will be fused into a never-heard-of-before app
as a supplementary render utility.

Surrealist.
10-24-2014, 04:27 AM
Yeah but Messiah has nothing to do with VFX. ICE is not VFX. It's a visual programming environment, unlike most other nodal environments, except for Splice. Indeed Houdini is the candidate.

So I still don't get the hype about Messiah going one here, like it's "Pancakes: Now with messiah flavour". You aren't crucially depending on it and you got Animation covered in Maya...

So Messiah doesn't share some issues of Layout. How does that improve the user experience in Layout when you bundle them together?

If the changes to LW are years away, then you'll get the same Messiah + LW combo you have today and nothing more... for years... (The displacement modifier doesn't work anymore?). I don't get your idea of what more would they do together that they don't do already.

How have they been "handling things" lately, and how does that relate to Messiah in the picture?

Right now, a sideline modeling app with a timeline, with solid development, foundations and resources shared across the application would do much more for everything in LightWave; Scene management, Rigging and Animation included, than bolting in Messiah.

And yes, you're happy for Maya, but all this talk tells me you're also looking for something new to show up. Because, more over in light of the recent events, Maya's now even more alone as the go-to Animation software. Competition is a fine thing.

Cheers

I get your points in there. You are making assumptions about me which are not correct. But that is OK. You don't know me. If you want to get to know me more I am open to discussion privately.

Regarding LW and Messiah, yeah I get your points. They are completely valid.

As for me briefly, no I have no vested interest in Messiah integration really. I am merely commenting objectively about how I see it. I would like to upgrade to 12. And so as far as that goes Messiah would not have much to do with that decision. I won't know what would make me upgrade until I see a feature list. However, I would like to see something happen positive with CA in LW.

Maybe I am wrong. I don't have all of the answers.

But my comments are aimed at the market broadly and also where I see they they are at with development.

I also stated a lot of your points months ago. So I understand them completely.

Surrealist.
10-24-2014, 04:39 AM
You incur NONE of the bet's risk, while they incur ALL the risk -- if you lose they get nothing, so there's no upside for them. Most folks with even a shred of common sense wouldn't consider such a bet because it's so imbalanced w.r.t. risk/reward, without their conviction about Messiahs future ever entering their consideration. Maybe if you were willing to incur equal risk in the name of your own convictions, you might find folks interested in making a (more fairly risk-assessed) bet.

Yeah I think this is just a misunderstanding somehow. I assume when I say a bet is on that table that all of the usual risks and so on are in place, just like any bet.

To be clear, I was commenting on the dollar bet.

I think the proper bet in this case should be an upgrade to LW 12. That should be stakes high enough for either party to state a conviction.
I thought that was pretty clear.

And no. I am not seriously interested in betting. Just using it metaphorically to make a point.

jasonwestmas
10-24-2014, 08:43 AM
I'm glad you didn't suggested Zbrush to be incorporated in Modo to solve its issues with sculpting or painting :D

So Messiah already works with LW, how much more integration you need or you think you would get with it being acquired?

Anyways, looking forward to hear from Fori.

Cheers

A little something about me is that I pretty much gave up any hope of a "fully integrated" anything with small developers like pmg amd lw3dg. IOW It's very unlikely that layout would become the next project messiah with a fully functional modeling toolset and customized UI. Normally I wouldn't even ponder the thought. In which case the next best thing is better Input Output exchange tools. Even though IO tools work technically in any pipeline, the ease of use can always improve.

jwiede
10-24-2014, 01:31 PM
Meh, not worth spending further effort on Fori shenanigans.

meatycheesyboy
10-24-2014, 01:56 PM
Meh, not worth spending further effort on Fori shenanigans.

b b b b b but why not!? Isn't it so much fun to just sit around making up wild stories out of whole cloth?

Seriously though, I find it hilarious that even over at SetupTab they've gone into wait and see mode but here in Newtek-land we're just working ourselves into a frenzy over every little thing that does or doesn't happen.

jasonwestmas
10-24-2014, 02:13 PM
:) Why does someone always come in and comment on how we are in frenzy mode or why we are upset. I can't speak for others but I feel rather calm most of the time. Most of the time I'm thinking and wondering out loud.

Oedo 808
10-24-2014, 02:18 PM
:) Why does someone always come in and comment on how we are in frenzy mode or why we are upset. I can't speak for others but I feel rather calm most of the time. Most of the time I'm thinking and wondering out loud.

I dunno, I love a bit of wild speculation and juicy gossip in general.

meatycheesyboy
10-24-2014, 02:37 PM
:) Why does someone always come in and comment on how we are in frenzy mode or why we are upset. I can't speak for others but I feel rather calm most of the time. Most of the time I'm thinking and wondering out loud.

I didn't say anyone was upset and I did say 'we' so I included myself since I've participated in this thread as well. If you subtract out stickies, this thread has more views and more comments than all of the other threads on the first page of this sub-forum combined. And for what? To talk about what might possibly maybe be in an announcement that we know absolutely nothing about. Maybe on the grand scheme of things, it isn't a high-level frenzy but I'm going to stick by my choice of that word. :)

jasonwestmas
10-24-2014, 03:17 PM
I didn't say anyone was upset and I did say 'we' so I included myself since I've participated in this thread as well. If you subtract out stickies, this thread has more views and more comments than all of the other threads on the first page of this sub-forum combined. And for what? To talk about what might possibly maybe be in an announcement that we know absolutely nothing about. Maybe on the grand scheme of things, it isn't a high-level frenzy but I'm going to stick by my choice of that word. :)

Well it is interesting for different reasons, that is true. I think we just have bigger imaginations over here, that's all.

jeric_synergy
10-24-2014, 04:30 PM
I like a good bit of wild-eyed, unfounded speculation as much as the next guy, but eleven PAGES of it?

Surrealist.
10-24-2014, 05:14 PM
Just imagine this. NewTek does buy Messiah. They announce it prematurely. We'd know nothing more than that.

This thread X 100.

garyh
10-26-2014, 08:20 PM
I remember back when messiah was being developed at a place called Station X Studios in L.A. There was a guy there that was working on a renderer that was announced as being project:messiah 1.0's potential render engine. It was called Arnold.

I wonder if Fori's gotten back in touch with Marcos Fajardo?

Maybe the company is Solid Angle? Messiah and Arnold back together again after all these years?

Surrealist.
10-27-2014, 05:05 PM
I don't remember if that has been mentioned yet in this thread. But I gotta say at least that is connected. However I am not sure where that theory leads.

So you have a company that sells a render solution, enter into the content creation market and directly compete with it's clients? Not sure that works out too well.

What do you think?

saranine
10-27-2014, 08:14 PM
All that is clear to me, I regret to say, is that Messiah Studio is finished. The reputation of it as a commercial product is surely over. This whole episode has been business school for 2 year olds. It is silly, childish and cynical pseudo-marketing by Messiah. It will go down in the history of CGI as douchebaggery of the lowest order.

Megalodon2.0
10-27-2014, 09:07 PM
All that is clear to me, I regret to say, is that Messiah Studio is finished. The reputation of it as a commercial product is surely over. This whole episode has been business school for 2 year olds. It is silly, childish and cynical pseudo-marketing by Messiah. It will go down in the history of CGI as douchebaggery of the lowest order.
As much as the marketing by Fori/Messiah has been dismal at best - AND it cleearly shows he doesn't know HOW to market - I don't think that Messiah is done and over with just yet. It depends on what company he is partnering with. Regardless of what anyone thinks about the company and its business practices, the software - at least on PC - works very well and it's great CA software. Hopefully we'll know more... SOON?

saranine
10-27-2014, 09:57 PM
I hope that Messiah Studio has been bought by Bill Gates. Then he can put it in that Arctic plant farm.

It needs a name change for a start. Messiah is just a stupid name. I mean is it the second coming of rigging? Maybe Moses was into CA.

djwaterman
10-28-2014, 01:45 AM
I don't use it, but from all reports it is a perfectly good piece of functioning software, even a pretty good renderer. Are people complaining too much?

bazsa73
10-28-2014, 02:01 AM
I don't use it, but from all reports it is a perfectly good piece of functioning software, even a pretty good renderer. Are people complaining too much?

They project their negative feelings onto the software because their logic says if Fori is bad (as a manager) then Messiah must be bad too.

khan973
10-28-2014, 04:44 AM
Sure thing is that the licensing system doesn't allow you to change computer or reinstall it anywhere if they discontinue support.

jasonwestmas
10-28-2014, 07:17 AM
Sure thing is that the licensing system doesn't allow you to change computer or reinstall it anywhere if they discontinue support.

what you can do is license a thumb drive. That way you can install and use M:S on any computer that is connected to the thumb drive.

3djock
10-28-2014, 07:25 AM
what you can do is license a thumb drive. That way you can install and use M:S on any computer that is connected to the thumb drive.
That is what I had to do because the dongle I had no longer works.. I have a USB flash drive ..

lightscape
10-28-2014, 10:54 PM
So were we duped?

meatycheesyboy
10-29-2014, 12:17 AM
Sorry if this was already posted, I didn't see it but the folks over at setuptab are thinking that the partnership is with EOS Vision.

http://www.eos-vision.com/

Their evidence is that according to this failed Indiegogo campaign for an EOS Vision display, Fori is one of the devs:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/affordable-3d-display-no-3d-glasses-needed

Megalodon2.0
10-29-2014, 12:24 AM
Sure thing is that the licensing system doesn't allow you to change computer or reinstall it anywhere if they discontinue support.


what you can do is license a thumb drive. That way you can install and use M:S on any computer that is connected to the thumb drive.

I've done what Jason said and it's worked fine.

Surrealist.
10-29-2014, 09:00 AM
Yeah mine is set up on a dongle as well. I thought that was covered in the notes about setting up Messiah. Or maybe I saw it on a thread. I don't remember.

wesleycorgi
10-29-2014, 10:06 AM
When I my thumb drive got mucked up a couple of years ago, they were okay for me to transfer to another.

Surrealist.
10-29-2014, 10:25 AM
Sorry if this was already posted, I didn't see it but the folks over at setuptab are thinking that the partnership is with EOS Vision.

http://www.eos-vision.com/

Their evidence is that according to this failed Indiegogo campaign for an EOS Vision display, Fori is one of the devs:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/affordable-3d-display-no-3d-glasses-needed

Actually now that argument makes some sense at first glance.

The only thing that does not make sense, going back to earlier posts I have made, is why would they delay an announcement?

The answer could be that it is still in development and they don't want to reveal anything yet. Which does not jive with my he'd make an upgrade deadline that then seems rather arbitrary.

But for me is the strongest arguments against the LW angle.

Also since the attempt to crowd fund it failed. Getting messiah users on board with a subscription makes all kinds of sense.

For the moment, ideas about it being NewTek completely deflated...:o

meatycheesyboy
10-29-2014, 11:19 AM
I know that I said I wouldn't get into the speculation part of this, yet here I am. I guess juicy gossip is just too hard to pass up. ;)

The cynical side of me says that EOS Vision is where Fori's interest lies and he set the arbitrary Messiah upgrade deadline because EOS Vision needed a quick cash infusion and he leaned on the Messiah users to get that cash.

If that or something like that is the case and I hope it's not, that is really low and would turn me off of any future venture that Fori is involved in.

And just to be crystal clear, I have no information to prove or disprove anything I'm saying. It is all just gossip and speculation on my end.

lightscape
10-29-2014, 08:39 PM
The cynical side of me says that EOS Vision is where Fori's interest lies and he set the arbitrary Messiah upgrade deadline because EOS Vision needed a quick cash infusion and he leaned on the Messiah users to get that cash.


Nah, someone said it was to pay for the electric bills.
No news yet its been how many days since. Real pro this one.

visualbug
10-29-2014, 11:46 PM
JAJAJAJA, electric bills jajaja
good one ;)

Ernest
10-30-2014, 12:06 AM
Well... if they say nothing for the next 300 days and still release something awesome before the year is up, they still win.

GandB
10-30-2014, 07:27 AM
So glad I didn't put out any money for this one; I learned my lesson from last time.

3djock
10-30-2014, 09:11 AM
So glad I didn't put out any money for this one; I learned my lesson from last time.

Well you can spend $40 dollars on gas or dinner for 2 so I think it is a fair gamble to see what is behind the next door, you never know.

GandB
10-30-2014, 10:02 AM
That's true; but at least I know what I'm getting for the dinner.

Surrealist.
10-30-2014, 11:39 AM
One thing is for sure. If he is indeed partnering with this other effort, I am not all that interested really. However, hey lets speculate more... lol

Maybe NT has decided to partner with both efforts?

3djock
10-30-2014, 01:04 PM
That's true; but at least I know what I'm getting for the dinner.
True but dinner only last so long..

jburford
10-30-2014, 02:21 PM
Actually now that argument makes some sense at first glance.

Getting messiah users on board with a subscription makes all kinds of sense.




You mean the last 20-50 Users who might go fir it? Fori had an enormous chance with the Dare to Share Campain, most certainly picked thousands of users with that, but after the following 18 months probably around 99% were gone already. Just enough users left to merit much of anything in my eyes.

jburford
10-30-2014, 02:23 PM
One thing is for sure. If he is indeed partnering with this other effort, I am not all that interested really. However, hey lets speculate more... lol

Maybe NT has decided to partner with both efforts?


. . . would rather eat veggies!

Surrealist.
10-31-2014, 12:16 PM
You mean the last 20-50 Users who might go fir it?

No it makes sense that they would try this kind of funding approach in the wake of failing at the crowd solution. What that means in terms of numbers I don't think anyone had access to ever, I think the quota was never actually announced.

But I'd be willing to bet that the pool is much higher than 50 of current active users. And much higher for people who might consider it.

As of this post the setup tab numbers:


Most Online Today: 83. Most Online Ever: 587 (November 11, 2013, 11:01:10 AM)

The email list has got to be much higher.

It makes sense to go that route. The numbers that are available support an attempt. That does not make it something that would work in reality.

But it does answer one of the major questions as to who would be the company and why and ties in the subscription angle.

OnlineRender
10-31-2014, 01:04 PM
no idea what is happening now...

http://i.imgur.com/wYtvP9n.gif

jasonwestmas
10-31-2014, 01:41 PM
Cool Beard

Surrealist.
10-31-2014, 02:33 PM
no idea what is happening now...

http://i.imgur.com/wYtvP9n.gif


indeed. The plot thickens.....

SpringfieldJack
10-31-2014, 03:59 PM
But it does answer one of the major questions as to who would be the company and why and ties in the subscription angle.
The Eos Vision connection will be no surprise to the thousands of "Dare to Share" customers that will have received the Indiegogo campaign email back in Feb.That campaign had 6 "funders" who contributed $2,387 of a $150,000 goal.This was followed by a 48hr $60 upgrade special for Messiah 5 owners in May "We'll be releasing some exciting news soon, and you will only be able to take advantage of it if you have version 6 licenses. Don't say we didn't warn you :)"Then in September 11th came the $40 subscription email followed on Sept.27th by the last email "Big changes are about to happen for messiahStudio and you. We have been working on a deal with a company that could change the industry, and give you an advantage as a messiahStudio user. We will be able to add more resources, improve the software, and give you a greater user experience; as well as support your projects in interesting ways."
What can we surmise from this:
The Indiegogo appeal to the "Dare to Share" subscribers (the largest Messiah nonuser-userbase) obviously failed.
The Messiah 5 48hr special didn't generate much cash-most of the "user" userbase would have already upgraded to 6pro!
this led to the final desperate strategy- go after the messiah6 users with a subscription plan and promises of "big changes","more resources" and improved software.
The only "big changes" so far have been to the Eos Vision site http://www.eos-vision.com/ If Eos Vision (Fori in a different hat) is the other company where are these resources coming from.
The one glimmer of hope is this: "our plans involve other companies" from the 27th September email.Most Messiah users will have no interest in upgrading their monitors to some niche 3d format, nor in being able to output to that format.I hope one of "companies" can provide the resources and marketing skills to save Messiah.

Surrealist.
10-31-2014, 06:56 PM
Yeah this is all starting to have a ring to it, sadly for Messiah. The LW angle to me sounds much more hopeful for Messiah as a tool - and for LW. But yeah, that timeline almost makes it a slam dunk. Amazing. I completely missed that connection before. Was not even following what was happening with Eos.

probiner
12-01-2014, 02:22 PM
no idea what is happening now...

http://i.imgur.com/wYtvP9n.gif

Still combing here...

ernpchan
12-01-2014, 02:25 PM
Most underwhelming software company acquisition EVER.

Surrealist.
12-01-2014, 02:48 PM
Well still no news as far as I can tell, but, yeah, assuming what seems to be obvious now, agreed.

jwiede
12-02-2014, 06:25 PM
Well still no news as far as I can tell, but, yeah, assuming what seems to be obvious now, agreed.

Tried to warn y'all, alas.

Surrealist.
12-02-2014, 09:49 PM
Well, yeah, and a few others. The problem was, a) I had no real clue about Eos, and b) none of the other reasons people made any sense for it not to be NewTek. If you mentioned Eos, sorry I missed it.

Still, Eos out of the picture, if this was presented, I'd make the same argument.

But I don't have an issue one way or the other. It is not that big of a deal to me. Was just an interesting discussion.

TIMMYLYNN
09-27-2015, 10:24 PM
ok they just took 40 out of my paypal....I can't get on setup tab and I can't find any info...did his happen to anyone else. I can't just give this guy 40.00 a year ...for no upgrades...I already paid for studio pro 6...anyone...the eos site is still thee saying coming soon with his name as one of the developers... is anyone locked out of setup tab...I get a message saying' sorry guest you are banned from site'????