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ernpchan
09-11-2014, 03:51 PM
pmg has gone the subscription route now. Not sure if it's an option or the only way to buy into messiah now.

http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shopSUB6.html

jhinrichs
09-11-2014, 06:01 PM
It looks like the training in the "PMG Setup Tab" page is still for pay...so they want subscriptions fees and to pay for training?

Over the years I've bought this app twice and both times threw my hands up in the air when it came time to try and understand the software. Most of the (non-pay) training I can find isn't even from this decade.

ernpchan
09-11-2014, 06:09 PM
Well the stuff on SetupTab has nothing to do with pmg...in that it's not pmg training. It's training put together by Wegg who runs/ran SetupTab.

jwiede
09-11-2014, 07:16 PM
SetupTab is cited by pMG as their "official support forum" so... (shrug). Anyway, serious caveat emptor w.r.t. Messiah subscription, IMO!

jhinrichs
09-11-2014, 07:22 PM
Ah, ok. I figured it was PMGs training site.

Megalodon2.0
09-11-2014, 08:01 PM
pmg has gone the subscription route now. Not sure if it's an option or the only way to buy into messiah now.

http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shopSUB6.html

It says it's an option.

http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shop.html

ernpchan
09-11-2014, 08:37 PM
Ah ok. I'd like to see an update before giving them more money.

Surrealist.
09-11-2014, 09:32 PM
That's actually not a bad deal. I have not cracked it open in a while. But my own personal frustrations and misgivings about the soft and the company aside, I still think it is a powerful app for the price with a lot of great features. Also a great little community of talented artists. Rendering is not bad at all either.

jeric_synergy
09-11-2014, 09:58 PM
Over the years I've bought this app twice and both times threw my hands up in the air when it came time to try and understand the software. Most of the (non-pay) training I can find isn't even from this decade.
Sadly I have pretty much the EXACT same story. One must be seriously motivated to learn Messiah, IMO.

Surrealist.
09-11-2014, 11:39 PM
I think that is true for any software.

In the case of PMG is is really bad documentation. But not impossible.

The key to learning Messiah I found was from three sources:

The incomplete manual
Free videos on newer features
Existing threads
My own experimentation
Posting threads and getting answers fairly quickly

From all of those things you can piece it together and once you do. Pretty cool.

Yeah it should not be this way and yadda yadda yadda. I have ranted about it over at setup tab. But at the end of the day for the price, roll up your sleeves and get to it. Pretty cool stuff in there.:)

jeric_synergy
09-11-2014, 11:47 PM
Maybe I was more motivated in the past. Or, maybe it was just youth and my brain was more flexible.

Surrealist.
09-12-2014, 01:26 AM
lol... yeah... I have hit information overload more than a few times.

jburford
09-12-2014, 01:27 AM
When I first saw the emails noting the Subscription Fee Offer, I thought it was an April Fools Joke! Just do not have a good feeling at all about PMG nor in using Messiah (3 Pro Licenses) at all for years now. Just hate how it is ran,
the old Hermit in a Cave, and no contact, information, nor feedback or sense.

Julez4001
09-12-2014, 01:33 AM
The Incomplete Manual from another decade is still pretty powerful especially for basic rigging and Joe Cosman set is incredibly good.

What was your goal for learning?

Surrealist.
09-12-2014, 01:39 AM
When I first saw the emails noting the Subscription Fee Offer, I thought it was an April Fools Joke! Just do not have a good feeling at all about PMG nor in using Messiah (3 Pro Licenses) at all for years now. Just hate how it is ran,
the old Hermit in a Cave, and no contact, information, nor feedback or sense.

My feelings as well.

However that said, powerful features in there just the same. I mean the animation tools and feedback are some of the best around. The rigging... well, has its good and bad. Rendering very nice. Lots of goodies.:)

ernpchan
09-26-2014, 05:24 PM
I guess pmG is partnering up with another company...their email doesn't say who or when.

JamesCurtis
09-26-2014, 06:45 PM
I currently have only a 5 pro license. I was wondering if it would be worth it at all to get the 6 pro license for $20 as today's email states?

ernpchan
09-26-2014, 06:54 PM
I stopped at 5. I don't even think 6 came out with a patch or point update so I really don't know how active the development is. Without knowing what this company partnership entails I'm not sure what to think. SetupTab is pretty much a ghost town and I don't think Wegg is involved anymore. I personally don't use messiah enough to wanna keep up to date even though there are things I really like about it. I can find more entertaining ways to spend my money.

jasonwestmas
09-26-2014, 08:56 PM
I think development literally stopped after the M:S 6 release. I won't be spending any more mulla on this program until I see a real update and features list. It's a matter of principal, even though the subscription is offerend to M:S 6 users at $40 a year, I'd rather spend my efforts with software that is consistently updated.

Surrealist.
09-26-2014, 11:13 PM
For me in principle I agree. However you get what you pay for. And the last release had a lot of cool features. But I am with you, I'd like to see a feature list before committing to anything.

JohnMarchant
09-27-2014, 12:07 AM
$20 looks interesting to get v6 but after that i will wait to see where this is going and who they partner with.

erikals
09-27-2014, 12:52 PM
I guess pmG is partnering up with another company...their email doesn't say who or when.

Modo ?

LightWave ?

C4D ?

-------------------

what's great about Messiah though, haven't looked all that much into it...

JohnMarchant
09-27-2014, 02:50 PM
Well Messiah was good for rigging and animation at a time when LW was not good at all. Now with Genoma and RHiggit 2. Its a bit hard to get around and i have not used it in a bit and did not update to 6.

jasonwestmas
09-27-2014, 04:49 PM
Well Messiah was good for rigging and animation at a time when LW was not good at all. Now with Genoma and RHiggit 2. Its a bit hard to get around and i have not used it in a bit and did not update to 6.

If more people only knew just how good the basic mechanics are in messiah, it's so much smoother than most apps I've used. But again, it's like all that is invisible to most people, very strange, heh. I guess messiah users are just more curious than most, or CA is a niche market.

erikals
09-27-2014, 05:31 PM
i did read misc stuff like that, but seldom got to find the specifics

Surrealist.
09-27-2014, 11:07 PM
i did read misc stuff like that, but seldom got to find the specifics

I think you have to dive in and use it, learn to rig and animate to get a feel for this, first hand. It really is a great little app at certain aspects of CA.

bazsa73
09-28-2014, 01:38 AM
I use v6, I did one paying job with it, was quite a risk going that way because when I started the project I only knew how to set up autorigger but I had
little information on animation and keyframing. The latter came easier than I thought and I learned some of the deformers too so in the end it was a succesfull story.
The reason I jumped on the messiah wagon was that I really wanted to avoid LW's heavy genoma rigs and I dont have the budget for maya.
And I dont like LW's deformation either. That code is so prehistoric that it should have been dumped 10 years ago, but that's my opinion.

So after 2 weeks struggle I had a feeling that I am getting somewhere. The good thing was that it hardly crashed during the production and I tweaked
my rig quite a lot because the client was really a huge pain, they didn't really know what they want nor the agency.

But this is not what users today are accustomed to.
They go to youtube, type messiah tutorial and see the results. If there's none they quickly get disappointed. Imho 70-80% of people dwindles away at this point. Or more.
The rest start reading the outdated manual but after a while they give up to so another heavy dwindlement occurs. The remaining few % then dwindles away slowly.
Love is a mutual thing and messiah doesn't love you at least not easily. All in all I like it I like the deformers the bulge thing the point animation system
the cage deformers etc... I can use morphs from LW and in the end it is easy to transfer data via MDD to LW and using object space I can rearrange my models
in LW so I dont need to worry about positioning in Messiah. That's my 2 cents on messiah, I probably won't subscribe right now though I'm not sure but as
Aragorn said in LOTR: We shall see what we shall see.
Cheers

lightscape
09-28-2014, 03:41 AM
Does the plugin still work with the latest lightwave?

Messiah users can probably get the crossgrade to lightwave.

Surrealist.
09-28-2014, 03:59 AM
I do remember people using it with some version of 11, but I don't know how current. Answer could be found at setup tab.

probiner
09-28-2014, 09:18 AM
Difference between this: http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shopSUB6.html
and this: http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shop.html

Other than the 20$...

jwiede
09-28-2014, 09:22 AM
I think it'll be very interesting to see precisely what subscribers there receive for their money spent. There's no way in heck I'd give pmG another cent of my money after the MS6 fiasco.

jwiede
09-28-2014, 09:26 AM
Difference between this: http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shopSUB6.html
and this: http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shop.html

Other than the 20$...

Yeah, seems like those earlier subscribers got a bum deal, but then, I suspect that's true long-term for the current subscribers as well. Call the complete failure to make any mention of what happens to prior subscribers just one more way the current subscription offer radiates "shenanigans".

bazsa73
09-28-2014, 11:21 AM
Does the plugin still work with the latest lightwave?

Messiah users can probably get the crossgrade to lightwave.

I export MDDs and motion paths for transforming objects.
So I do it by hand but the plugin still works according to my memories.

jeric_synergy
09-28-2014, 11:39 AM
I'm foolishly tempted (twenty bucks!), but considering TMK the manual was never revamped (fully) for v5 -- and what to me that implies, I think I'll just put my $20 in the 3Rd Powers fund instead... :(

bazsa73
09-28-2014, 12:17 PM
I'm foolishly tempted (twenty bucks!), but considering TMK the manual was never revamped (fully) for v5 -- and what to me that implies, I think I'll just put my $20 in the 3Rd Powers fund instead... :(
If you already own messiah you can use its point animation on your existing lw animations. Export your model + mdd to messiah, add point animation and there you go. Poor man's chronosculpt.

Qexit
09-29-2014, 06:30 AM
Difference between this: http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shopSUB6.html
and this: http://www.projectmessiah.com/x6/shop.html

Other than the 20$...I can see two differences: the former is $25 cheaper (at least for the first 12 months) and it also has the footnote "Limited and Price specials may end without notice." suggesting this price may disappear at any time. Other than that, they are the same :-)

probiner
09-29-2014, 07:20 AM
If Houdini starts having a better animation environment... "Sup Maya? Check my Indie prices."
Would be fun if that was it.