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cove
09-04-2014, 02:07 PM
Hi.
Just thought id talk about Lightwave v12.
Newtek themselves will not tell you anything at all accept that they are working on it.
I was a bit dissapointed that there was no comment or reference to LW12 in there latest news letter.
I can uderstand Newtek not wanting to reveal content, new features etc.
But cannot see why they can,t at least give us all some idea of what stage they have reached.
A simple comment from Newtek would be all thats necassary, like eg.
We are working hard and making good progress with LW12.
We are at the late stages of development.
We still have some issues to resolve but we are getting there.

It looks as if we may have to wait till the next Siggraph event in 2015 were hopefully they will
announce the new LW 12.
But then again is there another venue which Newtek may attend earlier than Siggraph.
Any suggestions?
Regards. KEN.

50one
09-04-2014, 02:58 PM
http://avidinvestorgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Here-We-Go-Again.jpg

Megalodon2.0
09-04-2014, 04:24 PM
It looks as if we may have to wait till the next Siggraph event in 2015 were hopefully they will
announce the new LW 12.

I fully expect to be using LW12 long before Siggraph 2015.

calilifestyle
09-04-2014, 04:35 PM
I fully expect to be using LW12 long before Siggraph 2015.
i kind of agree, i say Sigg 2015 will be more talk about 12.5 or so.

jasonwestmas
09-04-2014, 04:45 PM
I tend to agree with the others who posted. LW 11 is old hat, 12 should be coming soon. At what stage nobody knows.

jeric_synergy
09-04-2014, 06:29 PM
My god, don't we already have enough LW12 threads going?

Moderators, please kill this one w/extreme prejudice.

Oedo 808
09-04-2014, 06:35 PM
My god, don't we already have enough LW12 threads going?

Moderators, please kill this one w/extreme prejudice.

We can't have that!

Not before someone has come in to say how good Core would have been when it was ready in five years time.

The fact that Core wasn't mentioned at all in the first 5 posts is utterly outrageous in itself, the community is most definitely slipping. :alien:

Paul_Boland
09-04-2014, 07:21 PM
I love the confidence above about Lightwave 12 being out before Siggraph 2015. Given the zero communication from LW3DG what makes you think Lightwave 12 is on the horizon? I actually find the zero communication a bit of a sign that things aren't as good as hoped.

jasonwestmas
09-04-2014, 07:22 PM
My god, don't we already have enough LW12 threads going?

Moderators, please kill this one w/extreme prejudice.

I don't think anyone does searches anymore lol.

erikals
09-04-2014, 08:24 PM
i actually thought it would be out this Siggraph...

...maybe by 2015

hrgiger
09-04-2014, 08:52 PM
People really think that LW12 is going to coming sometime soon? Umm, no. Next Siggraph would be the earliest I'd expect to hear about it. And I'm being optimistic.

Megalodon2.0
09-04-2014, 09:10 PM
People really think that LW12 is going to coming sometime soon? Umm, no. Next Siggraph would be the earliest I'd expect to hear about it. And I'm being optimistic.

I think you are very wrong. But... we shall see. :boogiedow

erikals
09-04-2014, 09:31 PM
bets are on... ! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

jasonwestmas
09-04-2014, 09:41 PM
Definitely waaaaay before next august. :D

Megalodon2.0
09-04-2014, 11:43 PM
bets are on... ! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


Definitely waaaaay before next august. :D

Yup! :goodluck:

50one
09-05-2014, 01:09 AM
Definitely waaaaay before next august. :D

What year? :)

bazsa73
09-05-2014, 01:12 AM
Hi Ken! Great topic!

Wickedpup
09-05-2014, 01:25 AM
Not before someone has come in to say how good Core would have been when it was ready in five years time. Doin the math here...2 years in development before the unveling which is 5 years since now, and add to that your 5 years....12 years in development..yup, think it would have been great :D

50one
09-05-2014, 01:27 AM
I still think we all should get naked and wrestle in mud, with devs.

If not mud then maybe oil?

pinkmouse
09-05-2014, 01:47 AM
Custard!

OnlineRender
09-05-2014, 03:09 AM
Corequisite

cove
09-05-2014, 03:15 AM
Hi again every one.
Thanks for all your comments.
Looks as if we will just have to wait a while longer for the release of LW12.
Being optimistic its possible that there may be an event in the not to distant future
that also ties in well with Newteks next news letter were they may anounce LW12.
So im looking foreward to there next news letter.

50one
09-05-2014, 03:58 AM
Custard!

Oh Man! custard....

Speaking of Custard, I just love raspberry trifle.

Ernest
09-05-2014, 04:10 AM
But then again is there another venue which Newtek may attend earlier than Siggraph.

Traditionally, Newtek has only used Siggraph or their own personal show, not any other tradeshows. When they were tied closer to the video products they used NAB but I think that's not going to happen again. So, if they didn't use Siggy, they can use absolutely any random date on any LW user group meeting place to show it.

Megalodon2.0
09-05-2014, 04:18 AM
I still think we all should get naked and wrestle in mud, with devs.

If not mud then maybe oil?

Jello. :dance:

50one
09-05-2014, 04:55 AM
Jello. :dance:

No way, WD-40 only if I'm thinking about wrestling sharks.

jasonwestmas
09-05-2014, 07:05 AM
What year? :)

Based on the past, I'm thinking February or March of 2015.

hrgiger
09-05-2014, 07:07 AM
And I'm saying we won't hear about it until (at least) next Siggraph with a release scheduled for the end of 2015. Which means February or March of 2016.

jasonwestmas
09-05-2014, 07:12 AM
Nahh, too much can happen in that length of time that won't be Lightwave related. Unless you think there will be a large 11.8 or something funny like that.

hrgiger
09-05-2014, 07:29 AM
There's still 11.7 yet.

MAUROCOR
09-05-2014, 07:29 AM
Hey, what happened to LW 11.7? Did I miss something?!?

jasonwestmas
09-05-2014, 07:40 AM
Nobody out here knows, Maurocor.

erikals
09-05-2014, 07:59 AM
was 11.7 a rumor... ?

if not, can we start one for 11.8... ?


"start a rumor you can" :yoda:

jasonwestmas
09-05-2014, 08:06 AM
was 11.7 a rumor... ?

if not, can we start one for 11.8... ?


"start a rumor you can" :yoda:

I think it was a classic case of NT showing a demo video with some version number on the UI and everyone assumes it will be released. Probably just an internal LW3DG build.

I think I already created a rumor of 11.8 with zero evidence this time :D

akaracquel
09-05-2014, 08:08 AM
That was ******* hillariousment :ohmy:

+1 for oil, but I liked all of them :D

erikals
09-05-2014, 08:09 AM
yeah, just recalled it was actually a 11.7 number showed in a LightWave demonstration video, nothing more...

still, i heard from a reliable source that there was going to be an update.... or "something"


oh well, i got time to wait for 12... still busy checking the Houdini < > LightWave route...

yes, think LW3DG will get a heart attack soon of all this speculation...
see what happens when you don't fuel the car ?

MAUROCOR
09-05-2014, 08:20 AM
And I heard from a vey reliable source that there is a 11.9.1/2 in the way before 12. But I canīt tell you anymore.

erikals
09-05-2014, 08:34 AM
i don't mean to add to the confusion, but you write 11.9.1/2

does that mean that there will be an 11.9.1 ? or do you mean 11.9.2, or both, or 11.9.5 ?

will we then get a free update to LW12 ?

jasonwestmas
09-05-2014, 08:39 AM
hahaha

Oedo 808
09-05-2014, 08:40 AM
see what happens when you don't fuel the car ?

Or fuel to the fire.


And I heard from a vey reliable source that there is a 11.9.1/2 in the way before 12. But I canīt tell you anymore.

And that won't be the last, I heard they are unveiling 11.9ū at King's Cross station.

MAUROCOR
09-05-2014, 08:54 AM
It is getting really funny!

But I think it would be great to hear something from LW3DG. Even some few words.

tayotain2
09-05-2014, 09:56 AM
Check octane lw installation video and look at lightwave folders at left side.

hrgiger
09-05-2014, 10:28 AM
He's talking about this one.

124051

From the video by Lino about Octane Renderer.

And there's 11.7. Which again means you won't be hearing about LW12 anytime soon.

Nicolas Jordan
09-05-2014, 10:33 AM
I think it's possible that Lightwave 12 could be held back until mid 2015 sometime especially if it's a feature packed release but I think it's still more likely we could see it appear before the end of this year since it wouldn't make much business sense to wait so long between releasing paid upgrades. 11.7 seems less likely and 12 seems more likely to be the next release the more time passes by. It will be interesting to see if they just role the stuff that would have been in 11.7 into 12.

jasonwestmas
09-05-2014, 10:46 AM
I think it's possible that Lightwave 12 could be held back until mid 2015 sometime especially if it's a feature packed release but I think it's still more likely we could see it appear before the end of this year since it wouldn't make much business sense to wait so long between releasing paid upgrades. 11.7 seems less likely and 12 seems more likely to be the next release the more time passes by. It will be interesting to see if they just role the stuff that would have been in 11.7 into 12.

Thank you for confirming my sanity. ;)

Oedo 808
09-05-2014, 11:13 AM
I wonder, it may be that opposed to 11.7 being skipped and put into (well one assumes it would already be part of) 12, 11.7 may become 12 with some features from what would have been 12 taken polished up and mixed in to make it a respectable release.

It may not be ideal and will see some gnashing of teeth but time may simply not permit what they would have wanted for 12, and economics will demand the release a full version upgrade I would imagine.

Then again if the paymaster(s) can be convinced of LW12's promise (no easy task after Core), funding may be available while the 11.7 bone keeps the sharks at bay... for a while at least. Hurray for speculation :boogiedow

Andy Webb
09-05-2014, 11:19 AM
So when is LW13 likely to be out, or 13 being unlucky, LW14 :devil:;D

motivalex
09-05-2014, 11:27 AM
it wouldn't make much business sense to wait so long between releasing paid upgrades. 11.7 seems less likely and 12 seems more likely to be the next release the more time passes by. It will be interesting to see if they just role the stuff that would have been in 11.7 into 12.

I think it makes business sense to release LW12 when its ready as it will be the version which will decide on what type of paradigm shift will happen for its future. The existing users, former users and other 3D professionals looking from outside the community, are expecting to see a very transparent modernisation of the application. They have to get it right. Better to have a long term cash cow application lasting many more years, than releasing a rushed LW12 too early and joining Imagine, Truespace and Softimage in 3D heaven.

I think hrgiger knows something and LW12 won't be showcased at the very least until next year.

MAUROCOR
09-05-2014, 11:28 AM
I was wondering ( and it is only speculation, nothing more) but IF LW 12 is really unificated and the beginning of a new age to LW, it should be only LW , not LW 12 or what ever. I think it should be a new start. But hey, I donīt know even if we will have a 11.7 version!?!

hrgiger
09-05-2014, 12:48 PM
I think it makes business sense to release LW12 when its ready as it will be the version which will decide on what type of paradigm shift will happen for its future. The existing users, former users and other 3D professionals looking from outside the community, are expecting to see a very transparent modernisation of the application. They have to get it right. Better to have a long term cash cow application lasting many more years, than releasing a rushed LW12 too early and joining Imagine, Truespace and Softimage in 3D heaven.

Agree. I think LightWave's future depends on how successful LightWave 12 would be and a rushed release for the sake of bringing in revenue at the cost of skipping important improvements to the program would be a huge mistake. The development team should be focused on that larger goal and not much else at this point.


I think hrgiger knows something and LW12 won't be showcased at the very least until next year.

No, I'm not on the beta team nor do I have any insider knowledge, I'm just going off what seems logical to me. There's been talk of 11.7 for some time now (and not as simply an 'internal build') and I think that will be to tide users over a bit longer until LW12 is ready for unveiling. And going off past releases, point updates like 11.7 seem to have about a year's lifeline so that's why I suggest it will be Siggraph 2015 before we know anything about LW12.

Vong
09-05-2014, 02:33 PM
What you guys seem to be forgetting is this...

Back in 2011 when SIGGRAPH was last in Vancouver and Newtek didn't attend, they held their own event on November 11, 2011 (which was a Friday) to announce LW11 that would be available in Q1 2012.

This year, SIGGRAPH was again in Vancouver and LW3DG did not attend. This year, December 12, 2014 is also a Friday. Might there be another event of their own creation to announce LW12 and tell us it will be available in Q2 2015?

We could very well see 11.7 released well before then. The next newsletter should be October, maybe October/November since this last one was August/September. So I'd guess late September to early-mid October for an 11.7 release.

The past can show us the way to the future. :D

jasonwestmas
09-05-2014, 05:20 PM
I think it makes business sense to release LW12 when its ready. . . they have to get it right. . .

What does this mean in your mind? Ready to do what?

Oedo 808
09-05-2014, 05:43 PM
What does this mean in your mind? Ready to do what?

Perhaps the ability to run without crashing every five minutes?

jasonwestmas
09-05-2014, 05:46 PM
Perhaps the ability to run without crashing every five minutes?

is that a typical experience with LW releases?

Oedo 808
09-05-2014, 06:13 PM
If unification is an element then, very.

Megalodon2.0
09-05-2014, 07:21 PM
Perhaps the ability to run without crashing every five minutes?
Who has this problem with any version of LW?

is that a typical experience with LW releases?
Not me. 9.6 and 11.6 are pretty rock solid here.

If unification is an element then, very.
Based on what evidence?

Kaptive
09-05-2014, 07:36 PM
Heyyy... a new thread to ride on at the fair! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee round we go again!!!!! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!

lightscape
09-05-2014, 07:41 PM
He's talking about this one.

124051

From the video by Lino about Octane Renderer.



Lino just made a mistake there showing the existence of maybe lw 12, and now more speculation if they don't make a ROADMAP known.

Can significant changes be made to fix lightwave's thorniest legacy problem in version 12?

He's obviously testing it. I hope he's still not "pro" modeller and layout being split and make tools like Genoma which should really have been made in layout.

m.d.
09-05-2014, 07:51 PM
Lino just made a mistake there showing the existence of maybe lw 12, and now more speculation if they don't make a ROADMAP known.

Can significant changes be made to fix lightwave's thorniest legacy problem in version 12?

He's obviously testing it. I hope he's still not "pro" modeller and layout being split and make tools like Genoma which should really have been made in layout.


very interesting.....good find.

willin
09-05-2014, 07:54 PM
What you guys seem to be forgetting is this...

Back in 2011 when SIGGRAPH was last in Vancouver and Newtek didn't attend, they held their own event on November 11, 2011 (which was a Friday) to announce LW11 that would be available in Q1 2012.

This year, SIGGRAPH was again in Vancouver and LW3DG did not attend. This year, December 12, 2014 is also a Friday. Might there be another event of their own creation to announce LW12 and tell us it will be available in Q2 2015?

We could very well see 11.7 released well before then. The next newsletter should be October, maybe October/November since this last one was August/September. So I'd guess late September to early-mid October for an 11.7 release.

The past can show us the way to the future. :D

By your logic LW 11 was announce on 11-11-11 after skipping the Vancouver SIGGRAPH so since they again skip the Vancouver SIGGRAPH this time around and all things being the same for lightwave 12 they would have to travel back in time to be able to release LW 12 on 12-12-12. But that would be just as wrong as your logical choice of 12-12-14 because it was a Wednesday and not a Friday. Maybe 12-12-1912 or 12-12-3012.

m.d.
09-05-2014, 08:13 PM
What you guys seem to be forgetting is this...

Back in 2011 when SIGGRAPH was last in Vancouver and Newtek didn't attend, they held their own event on November 11, 2011 (which was a Friday) to announce LW11 that would be available in Q1 2012.

This year, SIGGRAPH was again in Vancouver and LW3DG did not attend. This year, December 12, 2014 is also a Friday. Might there be another event of their own creation to announce LW12 and tell us it will be available in Q2 2015?

We could very well see 11.7 released well before then. The next newsletter should be October, maybe October/November since this last one was August/September. So I'd guess late September to early-mid October for an 11.7 release.

The past can show us the way to the future. :D

thats quite a serious of coincidences there, both years Newtek did not attend siggraph when it came to Vancouver.....there happened to be Fridays in separate but consecutive winter months. :)

Davewriter
09-05-2014, 08:40 PM
Lino just made a mistake there showing the existence of maybe lw 12, and now more speculation if they don't make a ROADMAP known.

Can significant changes be made to fix lightwave's thorniest legacy problem in version 12?

He's obviously testing it. I hope he's still not "pro" modeller and layout being split and make tools like Genoma which should really have been made in layout.

Or... Lino did it on purpose... just to taunt us... heh heh heh

Oedo 808
09-05-2014, 08:49 PM
Who has this problem with any version of LW?

I should imagine anyone who gave Core a serious outing.


Not me. 9.6 and 11.6 are pretty rock solid here.

Bugger me sideways, the amount of time I've spent with these programs and I've always overlooked the unification element.


Based on what evidence?

Based on the only version of LightWave to have unification (kind of) and the entire history of software development since the first line of code was written.

Perhaps Motivalex's 'paradigm shift' was not talking of the prophesized LW12 that comes with some significant advancement toward unifcation in which a call for complete readiness might be more for stability and complete infrastructure without the expectation of anything greatly more than what we already have. In which case I could have understood Jason's asking.

Tell me, are you expecting both unification and an explosion of new features?

Megalodon2.0
09-05-2014, 09:50 PM
I should imagine anyone who gave Core a serious outing.

Well... since LW12 WON'T be CORE, this is irrelevant.


Bugger me sideways, the amount of time I've spent with these programs and I've always overlooked the unification element.
I thought the title of the thread was LW12. I didn't see anything from the LW3DG stating that this version would definitely be unified. Have you?


Based on the only version of LightWave to have unification (kind of) and the entire history of software development since the first line of code was written.
So you think that if LW12 is unified it will be based almost entirely on CORE code? I think that would be highly unlikely since it would take much longer than they've had and it would essentially then BE CORE. And we know that Rob and so many other 'wavers wouldn't like this. "Too Maya-like."


Perhaps Motivalex's 'paradigm shift' was not talking of the prophesized LW12 that comes with some significant advancement toward unifcation in which a call for complete readiness might be more for stability and complete infrastructure without the expectation of anything greatly more than what we already have. In which case I could have understood Jason's asking.

Tell me, are you expecting both unification and an explosion of new features?

I expect LW12 to be much like LW11 - little to no unification and new features. The underlying architectural problems will still be evident and most people here will going "Wow... look at these great new features" and look the other way yet again when it comes to unification.

And it'll definitely be here before next Siggraph. :)

lightscape
09-05-2014, 10:38 PM
I expect LW12 to be much like LW11 - little to no unification and new features. The underlying architectural problems will still be evident and most people here will going "Wow... look at these great new features" and look the other way yet again when it comes to unification.

Hopefully not.
3-4 years since lw 11 was release is enough time to add some modelling tools in layout for lw 12.
The updates in lw 11 are great and worth every penny of the cheap upgrade price but it does not equate to 3-4 years of dev time imho.
The lw 11 updates are maybe 1-2 years worth of dev time. They should have been working on unifying lw 12 in the background if they want to increase the userbase. Show some progress on that or people will just keep losing faith on newteks capability to develop software.

Megalodon2.0
09-06-2014, 12:13 AM
Hopefully not.
3-4 years since lw 11 was release is enough time to add some modelling tools in layout for lw 12.
The updates in lw 11 are great and worth every penny of the cheap upgrade price but it does not equate to 3-4 years of dev time imho.
The lw 11 updates are maybe 1-2 years worth of dev time. They should have been working on unifying lw 12 in the background if they want to increase the userbase. Show some progress on that or people will just keep losing faith on newteks capability to develop software.

Really? During those three years or so after release they were working on LW11.x and providing those many free updates. They of course should have done that with LW10.x but didn't. So I don't think that they've been working on LW12 for very long. And people will expect more free updates to LW12 as well. The only release that didn't get great updates was 10.x. Considering the updates with 11 and all its free little updates, I think it's been a pretty good cycle. I would expect a little more unification between Modeler and Layout, but not a great deal. It will be interesting to see - and I would expect an announcement before the end of this year regarding LW12.

hrgiger
09-06-2014, 03:05 AM
12 won't be unified anyway. Rob even said that they will be implementing workflows that remove the disadvantages of the separation of Modeler and Layout and I expect he was referring to LW12. He has also mentioned that he can't envision a future where LightWave won't be a unified application so I think its still the eventual goal, it will just take time. More time then simply the release of LW12.

Oedo 808
09-06-2014, 04:33 AM
Well... since LW12 WON'T be CORE, this is irrelevant.

Side stepping problems in development simply by changing the name of the software... nice idea.


I thought the title of the thread was LW12. I didn't see anything from the LW3DG stating that this version would definitely be unified. Have you?

Nope, and I doubt it will, but I assume that when someone describes it as a defining version with possible paradigm shift and transparent modernization, they would be expecting a little more than that of the 10-11 kind, and with such a release a long toil could be spent and asked for without the expectation of groundbreaking new features, such as liquid dynamics, over and above what we would have had if Core had been complete.


So you think that if LW12 is unified it will be based almost entirely on CORE code? I think that would be highly unlikely since it would take much longer than they've had and it would essentially then BE CORE. And we know that Rob and so many other 'wavers wouldn't like this. "Too Maya-like."

I expect it would take longer, though if not based on Core code, longer still so I'm not sure where that comes in. A unified LightWave will essentially be Core, there was nothing fundamental that caused the bad taste, and some will never accept unification but that has been covered ad nauseum.


I expect LW12 to be much like LW11 - little to no unification and new features.

And if you had said so with the addition that they need to take time to get it right, and then had been asked what features you thought were necessary to get it right, I wouldn't have suggested stability as one of them. Is it any clearer now?


The underlying architectural problems will still be evident and most people here will going "Wow... look at these great new features" and look the other way yet again when it comes to unification.

Quite possibly, the task of modernizing is too great to be overcome with an effort like Core and will take much effort, yet after a time one path allows them to release a version with great new features, while the other allows them to release nothing, while some look the other way.


And it'll definitely be here before next Siggraph. :)

Perhaps it will :)

cove
09-06-2014, 08:52 AM
Hi again.
Never thought about there being another intermediate release [11.7].
My optimism has risen again.
Still i hope LW12 comes out sooner than later.
When you watch the demo videos of the likes of Maya etc with there proper dynamic fluids /fire and smoke features
it just makes LW look so behind the times. These particular features are even part of the free software Blender.
Another possible reason why there maybe some time to wait is they are not just adding or bolting on new features
to the present version. They maybe working on a completly brand new version from the ground up of Lightwave.
Now theres a thought!
If this is the case then i would not be suprised if there are some great new and unexpected features that will not
only bring LW up to date but may also suppass the opposition.
What do you think?.

jeric_synergy
09-06-2014, 10:16 AM
Is this thread a goof? Everybody's saying things that JUST GOT SAID in the other "LW12" threads.

Usually there's a six week lag before we start repeating ourselves.

hazmat777
09-06-2014, 10:28 AM
Is this thread a goof? Everybody's saying things that JUST GOT SAID in the other "LW12" threads.

Usually there's a six week lag before we start repeating ourselves.

Sorry, couldn't resist...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE :boogiedow

jeric_synergy
09-06-2014, 10:30 AM
Sorry, couldn't resist...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE :boogiedow
I hate you. ;)

Oedo 808
09-06-2014, 11:07 AM
I see no ships.

Dan_Ritchie
09-06-2014, 12:05 PM
Only Spock could sort this all out.

Vong
09-06-2014, 12:33 PM
By your logic LW 11 was announce on 11-11-11 after skipping the Vancouver SIGGRAPH so since they again skip the Vancouver SIGGRAPH this time around and all things being the same for lightwave 12 they would have to travel back in time to be able to release LW 12 on 12-12-12. But that would be just as wrong as your logical choice of 12-12-14 because it was a Wednesday and not a Friday. Maybe 12-12-1912 or 12-12-3012.

The ending year was just a coincidence in that year. Nothing more. Also you may want to check your calendar again, because 11-12-14 is a Wednesday, but 12-12-14 is most certainly a Friday! :D


thats quite a serious of coincidences there, both years Newtek did not attend siggraph when it came to Vancouver.....there happened to be Fridays in separate but consecutive winter months. :)

I know, right! :D It amazed me too! It really blew my mind when I discovered that October will have 5, yes 5, Friday's this year! :D


Back to the LW12 discussion.... There was talk of keeping the CORE codebase around as a kind of sandbox in which to write and test new code that could then, supposedly, be moved over to classic LW codebase. If this actually happened, I don't know. However, if they continued working on the CORE codebase after telling us it was abandoned, I could see it being a basis for a future unified version.

Also there was an interview with CGW, I think it was, in which Rob mentioned that he see's a unified future for LW, but that it would take at least 3 ordinate versions for it to happen and that was shortly after v10 was released. So I wouldn't expect to see unification until at least v13, if not v14.

And part of the reason we're seeing as many point updates as we are, could be because it's going to take longer to get to unification. So while saying it'll take us 3 versions to get to a unified LW, if they are hitting bumps in the road to unification, why not keep the masses entertained with point releases that include new features?

We all know that LW3DG is not going to give us a road map of their plans. They've tried that before and it bit them in the butt. I don't expect them to give one either. A little more communication would be nice, but...

So we're left to speculate, which can be fun as long as you keep in mind that it is just speculation for fun's sake.

Anyways, how about that supposed LW56 that I saw a folder for one time? :D

hrgiger
09-06-2014, 01:15 PM
The ending year was just a coincidence in that year. Nothing more. Also you may want to check your calendar again, because 11-12-14 is a Wednesday, but 12-12-14 is most certainly a Friday! :D



I know, right! :D It amazed me too! It really blew my mind when I discovered that October will have 5, yes 5, Friday's this year! :D


Back to the LW12 discussion.... There was talk of keeping the CORE codebase around as a kind of sandbox in which to write and test new code that could then, supposedly, be moved over to classic LW codebase. If this actually happened, I don't know. However, if they continued working on the CORE codebase after telling us it was abandoned, I could see it being a basis for a future unified version.

Also there was an interview with CGW, I think it was, in which Rob mentioned that he see's a unified future for LW, but that it would take at least 3 ordinate versions for it to happen and that was shortly after v10 was released. So I wouldn't expect to see unification until at least v13, if not v14.

And part of the reason we're seeing as many point updates as we are, could be because it's going to take longer to get to unification. So while saying it'll take us 3 versions to get to a unified LW, if they are hitting bumps in the road to unification, why not keep the masses entertained with point releases that include new features?

We all know that LW3DG is not going to give us a road map of their plans. They've tried that before and it bit them in the butt. I don't expect them to give one either. A little more communication would be nice, but...

So we're left to speculate, which can be fun as long as you keep in mind that it is just speculation for fun's sake.

Anyways, how about that supposed LW56 that I saw a folder for one time? :D

Just to clarify, Rob did say that he envisioned a unified LightWave but he didnt say anything about how many versions it would take to do it. What was mentioned was that they had a 3 year roadmap for LightWave meaning thats how far out they had planned, but that doesnt mean unification as the goal of that roadmap. Matt has also confirmed that the 3 year roadmap wasnt implying anything about unification.

Surrealist.
09-06-2014, 01:35 PM
I think it was very clear to everyone what that wording was meant to imply. Come off canceling core which was a unified app and then you say you are keeping along with the same goal and that you have a 3 year plan means a LightWave core app in 3 years.

You do not have to read between the lines to get that.

Why can't it be that people just say the wrong things? Why can't it be that things change, plans change. There is no way unification can not be a part of a 3 year roadmap. That is a clearly stated goal. It does not mean 3 years to something closer. What would that mean? Nothing.

So may take on it is the 3 year roadmap was just another weak attempt to project a target date under pressure of having just canceled core. No one wants to hear that it is 10 years off. Do they? Of course not.

So why not just look at things as they are and not listen to what people have said in the heat of the moment and hold them to it? Man, that is maddening. And they don't make it any better by going silent. But we also have to do our part and cut them a break. Man, I think this forum would drive me nuts if I was in LW3DG shoes.

Oedo 808
09-06-2014, 01:39 PM
But we also have to do our part and cut them a break. Man, I think this forum would drive me nuts if I was in LW3DG shoes.

Well, that much is true, and I'm sure I've said things that can be maddening, but sometimes I'm just returning the favour for the silent treatment. :neener:

jeric_synergy
09-06-2014, 01:51 PM
Well, that much is true, and I'm sure I've said things that can be maddening, but sometimes I'm just returning the favour for the silent treatment. :neener:
Hah! Yes, Rob's the one with the fire extinguisher: if he doesn't like the heat, he can put out the fire.

Unfortunately, any comment is like .....uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... the fire equivalent to the mythological hydra.

Megalodon2.0
09-06-2014, 03:32 PM
Side stepping problems in development simply by changing the name of the software... nice idea.
Believing that they will simply cut and paste CORE code - as I'm sure you know - is not feasible nor would it work. A significant amount of change will be made so it won't BE CORE code. So let's be honest, it's not changing "just" the name.

Nope, and I doubt it will, but I assume that when someone describes it as a defining version with possible paradigm shift and transparent modernization, they would be expecting a little more than that of the 10-11 kind, and with such a release a long toil could be spent and asked for without the expectation of groundbreaking new features, such as liquid dynamics, over and above what we would have had if Core had been complete.
They can describe it all they want, LW3DG will bring LW12 as THEY want it, not how the users "define it."


I expect it would take longer, though if not based on Core code, longer still so I'm not sure where that comes in. A unified LightWave will essentially be Core, there was nothing fundamental that caused the bad taste, and some will never accept unification but that has been covered ad nauseum.
No, it won't "BE CORE" since CORE had many things that a "unified LW" may not have - like a history stack. A "unified LW does not REQUIRE a history stack as well as many other things that CORE had.


And if you had said so with the addition that they need to take time to get it right, and then had been asked what features you thought were necessary to get it right, I wouldn't have suggested stability as one of them. Is it any clearer now?
As if every full point release hasn't had stability issues for a portion of the userbase? I had LOTS of problems with 9.0, the next release was great and ultimately 9.6 was VERY stable. Newtek - in my experience - has NEVER had a release that didn't have stability issues for the initial release so I don't expect that to change. Why should you?


Quite possibly, the task of modernizing is too great to be overcome with an effort like Core and will take much effort, yet after a time one path allows them to release a version with great new features, while the other allows them to release nothing, while some look the other way.
You are assuming that while they were working on CORE, no improvements would have been made on "classic" LW. Since you don't KNOW (and neither do I) you cannot assume that at all.


Perhaps it will :)
One point of potential agreement. :D

Oedo 808
09-06-2014, 06:26 PM
Believing that they will simply cut and paste CORE code - as I'm sure you know - is not feasible nor would it work. A significant amount of change will be made so it won't BE CORE code. So let's be honest, it's not changing "just" the name.

Not that I suggested as much but, cut and paste, integrate, whatever they do, the issues of stability will remain. Whether they augment Core or implausibly start from scratch, again. Unless of course they change the fabled destination which would make things easier, but last we heard it was "El Dorado, here we come!"

Surely you are a believer!?


They can describe it all they want, LW3DG will bring LW12 as THEY want it, not how the users "define it."

That's right they can, which makes the rest rather redundant. A forumite has his or her own expectations, which they are entitled to and can be asked to elaborate on what those expectation are. I don't see anyone (else) suggesting or mistaking it as something official. But if it helps, I do not speak for the LightWave Group, nor (to my knowledge) does anyone who is not the LightWave Group.


No, it won't "BE CORE" since CORE had many things that a "unified LW" may not have - like a history stack. A "unified LW does not REQUIRE a history stack as well as many other things that CORE had.

Going to the same destination... using Core as a test bed... yup, that would essentially be Core to my mind. And while I guess it's possible they would choose to leave out such things as the already completed (or at least semi-completed) history stack, plausible? Perhaps less so.


As if every full point release hasn't had stability issues for a portion of the userbase? I had LOTS of problems with 9.0, the next release was great and ultimately 9.6 was VERY stable. Newtek - in my experience - has NEVER had a release that didn't have stability issues for the initial release so I don't expect that to change. Why should you?

I was referring to the notion that his idea of readiness for any kind of unified attempt might be about working to achieve much greater stability than Core had even after much work, rather than hoping for some super duper new features. Though I can perhaps see that once you misunderstood, you couldn't see past it. Although you seemed to think stability was not an issue because of the updates being rock solid, but surely if you always experienced a great deal of instability with initial releases, would you not have assumed that was what I was talking about in the first instance?


You are assuming that while they were working on CORE, no improvements would have been made on "classic" LW. Since you don't KNOW (and neither do I) you cannot assume that at all.

I don't need to know anything, I can assume what I please and have no need to add any caveat, certainly not in this place. So far as assumptions go I would say that the LightWave 10 cycle speaks for itself and the statement given at the time by Rob was to say that what they are doing amounts to working on both, a more laborious integration and update of LightWave's legacy architecture, but in a way that has some sustainability. If you have a different understanding or interpretation of your own I wish you would clarify, speculate, assume or whatever, rather than point out the rather obvious in that this thread isn't a hotbed of development path facts.


One point of potential agreement. :D

Ha, indeed, for me, even though I think there are things that are unlikely to transpire, it still leave quite a latitude for other things I think likely and the realization that what I think improbable is still, scarily, quite possible.

Surrealist.
09-06-2014, 06:55 PM
Well, that much is true, and I'm sure I've said things that can be maddening, but sometimes I'm just returning the favour for the silent treatment. :neener:

Ha ha ha!

OK, I think I have been a bit guilty in the past as well.:D

erikals
09-06-2014, 07:14 PM
stop thinking about when LightWave 12 will be released, and what it will bring...

aah... forget it... it's impossible...! :]

Megalodon2.0
09-06-2014, 07:33 PM
<snip>

Okay.

lightscape
09-06-2014, 08:00 PM
keyboard warriors at it again.
:ohmy:

jwiede
09-06-2014, 08:09 PM
I just hope they do something to get all the currently-pending (aka "waiting for a release") bug fixes out to customers before the end of this year. Overall, they need to figure out a way to get bug fixes to customers in a much more timely manner.

Oedo 808
09-06-2014, 08:39 PM
keyboard warriors at it again.
:ohmy:

I like to think of myself as a LightWavey Xena, though my hairy legs do somewhat thwart that illusion.


I just hope they do something to get all the currently-pending (aka "waiting for a release") bug fixes out to customers before the end of this year. Overall, they need to figure out a way to get bug fixes to customers in a much more timely manner.

I tend to agree, I'm not sure if they've become addicted to bulking out the change log. Perhaps patches could be released through fogbugz for something that's not a widespread issue.

Vong
09-06-2014, 08:57 PM
I just hope they do something to get all the currently-pending (aka "waiting for a release") bug fixes out to customers before the end of this year. Overall, they need to figure out a way to get bug fixes to customers in a much more timely manner.

+1 +10 +Infinity!!!! Amen!!! I wholeheartedly agree! :D

jeric_synergy
09-06-2014, 10:38 PM
I like to think of myself as a LightWavey Xena, though my hairy legs do somewhat thwart that illusion.
Not that she's not a beautiful woman, but I'm pretty sure Lucy Lawless shaves her legs. If she didn't she'd look like, well, what a standard human actually looks before culture starts shaping them.

I'm just saying: you could pass for Xena.

50one
09-07-2014, 12:27 AM
I think the delay in releasing v12 is caused by the fact that they're kinda stuck and not sure what to implement since LW is a complete tool. The only thing left is the fluid simulator and undo, but I guess we can live without either.

Wickedpup
09-07-2014, 01:07 AM
uhm, yeah...."complete tool" isn't excactly the word that pops into my mind when firing up LW.....and you left out Scroll Wheel Zoom....it's just so.....1995?

jeric_synergy
09-07-2014, 01:18 AM
Usually, "complete tool" is a harsh insult. ;)

akaracquel
09-07-2014, 05:37 AM
******* goofs :ohmy:

+1 oil