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View Full Version : The amazing Houdini reel of Spencer Lueders ( fluids, fire and smoke)



robertoortiz
09-01-2014, 06:27 AM
I would like to disucuss next gen Fluids and fire and smoke for LW.

And I wanted to show an amazing Houdini reel to kick start the conversation.

http://vimeo.com/34695755?from=outro-embed

probiner
09-01-2014, 07:30 AM
Get Houdini Indie: http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2853&Itemid=66
LW has other fundamental problems that can't be solved by using a companion app or a 3rd party.

Cheers

50one
09-01-2014, 08:22 AM
That was one of the shortest discussion I've ever experienced.

S

jasonwestmas
09-01-2014, 08:27 AM
Lightwave would need to be able to handle a lot more particles for something like the insects. Making them nodal would help as well, for control reasons.

OnlineRender
09-01-2014, 09:10 AM
a lot of nice effects in there and tbh they would be difficult to do in LW however not impossible... but particles needs to be replaced

prometheus
09-01-2014, 11:48 AM
Lightwave would need to be able to handle a lot more particles for something like the insects. Making them nodal would help as well, for control reasons.

Probably more a question of how lightwaveīs instancing system can handle the same fly insect object, lightwave 11 and up can deal with at least 8 millions of particles..I think I reached that level, and rendered with sprites, but only
in 64 bit and that was just sprites, how many instances of a medium polyamount object that can be applied on how many particles is the question, before lightwave chokes.
It may be possible with ligthwave 64 bit, but not sure when it comes to instancing ..then itīs a matter of using either native particles and wind effectors to get similar motion..that will most certainly choke lightwave, since wind dynamics and particle calculation is quite slow at high amount of particles.

How many particles the flocking particle system can build up... I have no idea, and if that in such case would be more effective in order to create the motions.
the sample with houdini donīt seem impossible for lightwave and it doesnīt seem to be extremly high in particle amount either.

JamesCurtis
09-02-2014, 01:21 PM
I'm going to consider Houdini Indie, but it'll have to be a month or two down the line as I have no spare cash ATM. I've been using Lightwave exclusively on my client projects, but I am always open to options. In the meantime, I'll download Apprentice to try it out in my spare time. BTW, I definitely DO NOT make more than $100,000 per year. In fact, I'm lucky to do half of that a year!!

robertoortiz
09-02-2014, 03:47 PM
BTW I am not posting this as an advert of Houdini Indie... It is more to see how LW can be improved.

JamesCurtis
09-02-2014, 06:57 PM
BTW I am not posting this as an advert of Houdini Indie... It is more to see how LW can be improved.

Oh, I realize that, but getting more tools in one's arsenal can't hurt! I'll always be a LW junkie!! Why do you think I've used it since day one on the Amiga and Video Toaster!!

erikals
09-03-2014, 08:23 AM
it's nothing special about the provided video, these days it can be done in LightWave.

this however can not, LightWave is just not powerful enough >

http://vimeo.com/81426318

and this >
http://forums.odforce.net/topic/8471-eetus-lab/page-9#entry94209


Lightwave would need to be able to handle a lot more particles for something like the insects
actually no, not anymore, i can get 2 million now with using old LW 32bit and only 8GB of ram...
that insect scene is doable in LightWave, using instancing. i believe they fixed the particle limit in LW in LightWave 10 or so... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aZjR0YQGFw

Houdini though can handle 70+ million particles (!)

so Houdini is much more powerful, it also can tweak all kinds of things nodally, making it super strong, and "ahem" super-complex... :l

Houdini is fantastic at creating / manipulating particles / fluids, but imo it kind of stops there, unless you are a super-genious that wants to play with nodal stuff to create... whatever...

the only reason i've been looking into Houdini these days is because of it's powerful waterfluids / particles / smoke

you can get alright particle effects in LightWave (seems to be a lack of interest here among LightWave users)
and for smoke in LightWave you can use TurbulenceFD, it can create quite complex smoke actually.
(unfortunately) i'm not too impressed with Houdini cloth, as it looks rubbery, but luckily we got Syflex now (and Bullet and ClothFX)

but one thing you cannot get in LightWave is 70+ mill particles and fluids like Houdini

this has left me the question though, is Houdini Indie worth it to me, or should i use RealFlow instead, which also makes it much easier to import fluids into LightWave with motion blur, unlike Houdini... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/question.gif



It is more to see how LW can be improved
which is ok, but we all know for LightWave to get to that level will take 10+ years...
there is no other way to do that other than to do a complete re-write of LightWave

creacon
09-03-2014, 08:55 AM
Like what?

creacon



LW has other fundamental problems that can't be solved by using a companion app or a 3rd party.

Cheers

erikals
09-03-2014, 09:14 AM
it's well known by now, the core design is no good, it can't handle high-poly data

(been discussed endless times through the years on these forums, it was also the reason why they made Core, and the reason why Hydra gave some hope, the guy behind ChronoSculpt gave some hope, but it seems he left the building) (David Ikeda)

prometheus
09-03-2014, 10:59 AM
it's nothing special about the provided video, these days it can be done in LightWave.


actually no, not anymore, i can get 2 million now with using old LW 32bit and only 8GB of ram...
that insect scene is doable in LightWave, using instancing. i believe they fixed the particle limit in LW in LightWave 10 or so... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aZjR0YQGFw

Houdini though can handle 70+ million particles (!)





yupp..I also mentioned that the bug/fly scene should be possible with lightwave too without to much hazzle.

Abnd yes ..I also get something around 3 millions of particles with lightwave 32 bit, but over that it can crash, using 64 bit I could reach 8 millions of particles, but I didnīt try over that since the system becomes very sluggis when dealing
with the "cooking" settlement of particles.

this was 3 millions of particles in lightwave..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYpvZyikRqY&list=UUDxRvcWi0V7RgW69O5Ax5Og


The question is how it will deal with instances that themself can be some thousands of poly for a single object that is instanced, try just add 1-2millions of instances of a simple box and it will start to become sluggish..at least in 32 bit, so
64 bit is probably a must dealing with instances at that level, and this is just direct instances, now constructing it with 2-5 millions of particles and use instancer on those...I really donīt know if it will handle that amount well.
Then we have the flocking particle system, I donīt know the limit for that and how well that works either.
The 1 million limit I think was removed not in lightwave version 10 ...but in 11, not sure though.

And indeed..those are awesome houdini samples of the battleship and fluids..and no way you pull that realism out straight out of lightwave...maybe with real flow.

It is a difficult decision wether or not go for houdini or real flow, have to weigh in the cost, the learning curve, and what you get for it, if one can deal with the cost and learning curve...then I think it would be obvious to get houdini, so
the question is can one deal with the cost and the learning curve:)

bazsa73
09-03-2014, 11:53 AM
I'm not so sure about the fly scene as we can't randomize MDD playback on a per instance basis, only HDinstance can or rather could do it.

prometheus
09-03-2014, 12:16 PM
I'm not so sure about the fly scene as we can't randomize MDD playback on a per instance basis, only HDinstance can or rather could do it.

why would you randomize mdd playback for it to work? a fly flips itīs wing, and nothing else, the rest is motion controlled per global basis and will look good enough at distance, and also close up for the most cases.

creacon
09-03-2014, 12:19 PM
For as far as my tests go, Lightwave is the program that gives the least overhead on raw polygon or particle data. I just did a test with my own particle system (I used dumb particles, movement and color controlled by nodes), and if I cache to disk, I can use 70 million particles, it isn't fast and each frame buffer is 5Gb on disk, but it works.
And I probably have a bug, because if I store position, velocity, fp color and density it shouldn't be that big.

I'll see if I can make a preview.

creacon



it's well known by now, the core design is no good, it can't handle high-poly data

(been discussed endless times through the years on these forums, it was also the reason why they made Core, and the reason why Hydra gave some hope, the guy behind ChronoSculpt gave some hope, but it seems he left the building) (David Ikeda)

creacon
09-03-2014, 12:45 PM
70 million works but would have taken too much time (and disk space), so this is a Quick & Dirty test with 10 million.
- turbulent noise for the displacement of the particles
- Ripples for the color

this took about 5 seconds per frame with caching to disk, but:
I can halve the file size by saving less data (Speed X 2)
I ran from a debug version (Speed X 2)

so there's room for improvement.

bazsa73
09-03-2014, 12:58 PM
why would you randomize mdd playback for it to work? a fly flips itīs wing, and nothing else, the rest is motion controlled per global basis and will look good enough at distance, and also close up for the most cases.

Sorry bro, but I have to see it first.

prometheus
09-03-2014, 01:58 PM
70 million works but would have taken too much time (and disk space), so this is a Quick & Dirty test with 10 million.
- turbulent noise for the displacement of the particles
- Ripples for the color

this took about 5 seconds per frame with caching to disk, but:
I can halve the file size by saving less data (Speed X 2)
I ran from a debug version (Speed X 2)

so there's room for improvement.


interesting, though the results just looks like some geometry a little displaced and with some ripple effect going on with the surface shading, maybe you just have to many particles in there :D
canīt you get some more turbulent effect with the particle feel still intact? as mentioned..though the tech specified and what it can handle is most impressive, the looks is equal to some simple geometry effect..though I can
understand how extremly cool it will look if you can get a nice flowing turbulent effect swirling around.

Do you now anything about how krakatoa is handling itīs particles and the way it is used in partitions? and filling in particles in rendertime rather than simulating it?

prometheus
09-03-2014, 03:03 PM
Sorry bro, but I have to see it first.


meh...you are probably right, depends on though...wings flapping uniformly would show as some sort of pattern motion on instances, but depening on distance to the object and the shot, you could leave individual motion off to avoid that..but as soon as you zoom in too much....it might look dull, hd instance mdd offset?..sure, then again the rumours says it doesnīt handle large amount of instances just as well as native lw instancing..and it might be tough enough on the system with native instancing.

I wonder how many particles/instances there are in that bug scene...100 000 or up to millions? I donīt think it is millions, but quite a few thousands of them.
flocking can probably give equal style of motion around a certain object.

prometheus
09-03-2014, 04:40 PM
testing some flocking, but I shouldīt even try it with 32 bit perhaps, 8000 instances in flocking and a pretty simple bug object, works decently, tried 64 000, the system goes in to halt for unknown time, and just keeps standin at calculating/loading 0%.

just using lightwave particles seems more effective, though you need a directional wind to to some cool motion which tend to slow down particles quite a lot, but still it wonīt halt the system, then instancing a bug object on that isnīt a problem, if I then raise particle amount..first without having the instances active..and just wait for a some minutes before the particles have settled, then activating instances again and it will almost instantly adjust amount of instances to the same amount of particles. so it doesnīt seem to be the actual instancing system that is the foremost bottleneck, rather the flockin system when you have to many agents, and for lightwave standard particles the bottleneck is mostly the dynamic wind forces when used on particles.

erikals
09-03-2014, 06:02 PM
randomize the bugs by using 5-10 different LW mdd instances, should work fine


http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngcreacon
I can use 70 million particles, it isn't fast and each frame buffer is 5Gb on disk, but it works...

...with my own particle system...


dang, that's nice, good to see it could work... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

on what system LW64? ram? ssd? cpu?


http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngprometheus
hd instance mdd offset?

yes, HDi can kick it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTv2k9IGjQw

DP instance (not to be confused with DP instancer) could do it too, though not sure what speed it provides, how much geometry it can handle...

prometheus
09-03-2014, 06:10 PM
randomize the bugs by using 5-10 different LW mdd instances, should work fine



yes of course, but not sure if that will impact the calculation to much, otherwise it might work with dpont instance system.
I see issues though trying to use the flocking system, if you want a very huge amount of agents, I thought flocking could handle that better.

jwiede
09-03-2014, 06:20 PM
yes of course, but not sure if that will impact the calculation to much, otherwise it might work with dpont instance system.
I see issues though trying to use the flocking system, if you want a very huge amount of agents, I thought flocking could handle that better.

Really, LW's flocking should be more efficient at such cases, otherwise it becomes difficult to justify flocking as a distinct feature/system (instead of just a particle behavior). Not sure what's going on, might want to ping LW3DG's James W if you can. Those population counts you're citing seem barely mid-sized, so if maxing out flocking in LW x64 seems like potential symptom of a resource/overhead bug or inefficiency.

prometheus
09-03-2014, 06:29 PM
Really, LW's flocking should be more efficient at such cases, otherwise it becomes difficult to justify flocking as a distinct feature/system (instead of just a particle behavior). Not sure what's going on, might want to ping LW3DG's James W if you can. Those population counts you're citing seem barely mid-sized, so if maxing out flocking in LW x64 seems like a potential resource/overhead bug or the like.

nope ..I donīt think the flocking system is more effective in the speed performance when using a large amount of agenst compared to standard particles, based on the test I did some hour ago...tried 64 000 agents...with the instances..and it just died..or just keep loading/calculating..where standard particles didnīt take that long to settle...with instances.

Donīt think the "justify flocking as a distinct feature system" is what we should talk about here...if it ever was intended in terms of a better handling of particle amount and speed, I perceive it just as a total different system with features to direct particles in much different way and more editable and with algorithms more suitable for naturalistic flocking behavior, so I am doubtful it in fact should be superior when dealing with large amount of particles or in speed.

So If they could pull of a real time editing of flocking that would be great..like you have in most cases with lightwave particles..unless you absolutly need to calculate it, then it just can go dead upon having 60 000 agents..thatīs not good.

but please guys...try out the flocking system with something around 50 000 agents, with and without instances, on 32 bit vs 64 bit and get back here and give some feedback, probably a question of the computer too...but mine aint so bad.

erikals
09-03-2014, 06:48 PM
i'll probably wait and install the LightWave 11.7 Layout 64bit version - heard that was around the corner some time ago...

will stick to 32bit Modeler though, but i can make M32 / L64 work together via the Hub
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?141332-Modeler32-gt-lt-Layout64&p=1379813&viewfull=1#post1379813

btw, maybe "pure particles" could work instead of flocking ?

jwiede
09-03-2014, 06:53 PM
I perceive it just as a total different system with features to direct particles in much different way and more editable and with algorithms more suitable for naturalistic flocking behavior, so I am doubtful it in fact should be superior when dealing with large amount of particles or in speed.

I don't see tens to hundreds of thousands of entities as a "large number" for a 64-bit system, whether simple "PSR-owning" particles, or "heavierweight" flocking agents. IRL bird murmurations routinely involve tens to hundreds of thousands of individuals, big ones' populations often going substantially larger, and that would seem to be the "optimal usage case" for a flocking system such as you describe -- if it cannot even handle a middling-sized murmuration, what _are_ its sweet spot cases? And how commonly are those needed?

prometheus
09-03-2014, 07:03 PM
i'll probably wait and install the LightWave 11.7 Layout 64bit version - heard that was around the corner some time ago...

will stick to 32bit Modeler though, but i can make M32 / L64 work together via the Hub
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?141332-Modeler32-gt-lt-Layout64&p=1379813&viewfull=1#post1379813

btw, maybe "pure particles" could work instead of flocking ?


yes..thatīs what I tested, though the fastest way to add some interesting turbulent particle behavior, as I shown in my 3 million clip with particle fields, that is to use procedural textures in the actual particle emitters velocity vectors, but that isnīt useful for an oscillating swing back motion effect, it just moves/explodes the particles in that turbulent velocity vector form..cool for some stuff but it isnīt enough for a flocking behavior..itīs fast though.

what you can do is adding a directional wind and use itīs velocity vectors in the same way, but here they will sort of swing back in a better way and motion compared to the other aproach, but as I mentioned dynamic wind and particles will be quite slow if you go over a certain amount of particles....hereīs 40 000 of standard particles and the same amount of instances...though it will be hard to set goals and you donīt have that natural flocking cohesion and lag etc, but some simulation of flocking can be acheived.

I just think we have to be patient and let the lw group improve on it..both in terms of particle and instance handling with such high amount, and in terms of how complex the behavior will be.

Dont have time to upload a clip of it now, got to sleep and dream of a flock of sheap, so just a still for now :)

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124030&d=1409792552

124030

prometheus
09-03-2014, 07:09 PM
I don't see tens to hundreds of thousands of entities as a "large number" for a 64-bit system, whether simple "PSR-owning" particles, or "heavierweight" flocking agents. IRL bird murmurations routinely involve tens to hundreds of thousands of individuals, big ones' populations often going substantially larger, and that would seem to be the "optimal usage case"* for a flocking system such as you describe -- if it cannot even handle a middling-sized murmuration, what _are_ its sweet spot cases? And how commonly are those needed?

*: Much smaller in population and the "emergent patterns" associated with such groups won't properly "manifest".

Have to install the 64 bit version, had it installed before..it could handle 8 millions of standard particles, where my 32 bit system crashed over 3.5 millions of particles, it could also handle the space jockey high poly scene over at foundation 3d, where my 32 bit system crashed using that scene.
but I got a lot of else to do before that.

though the fact remains I believe...my standard particles and instances are workable in 32 bit, flocking at that level isnīt ...in 32 bit that is.

Note...even if 64 bit could handle larger amount of particle data..I am not convinced it made any significant speed performance.

erikals
09-03-2014, 08:05 PM
wait, what if you use flocking and save the pfx file ?

prometheus
09-03-2014, 08:09 PM
wait, what if you use flocking and save the pfx file ?

ah..just simulate the flocking agent particles and load the pfx file and then attach the agents, that should of course be easier to handle I definitly think....but I still need to verify flocking at 60 000 of particles or more without instances, not sure
if I validated that with or without them when testing...but itīs bedtime now..really:)
got to check that tomorrow.

erikals
09-03-2014, 08:15 PM
you don't need to flock more than 100000, then you can clone it 10 times and add randomization http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/wink.gif

hey, it's only 4.00 am... !

prometheus
09-03-2014, 08:37 PM
you don't need to flock more than 100000, then you can clone it 10 times and add randomization http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/wink.gif

hey, it's only 4.00 am... !

sleep ...darnit...and I should be going up within 2 hours for a proper day/night rythm.
had to test..otherwise I donīt sleep well, you mean clone the particlePFX file? 10 times?
yep that should work, I just did that before you posted your reply, so as long as you set your pfx file to key, you can clone it and move it ..rotate it so it looks like a different flock group.

what I do have a problem with still, tested with 16x16x16 agents..that is 4096 particles, using the flock preset which is the slowest one to use..donīt know why exactly..maybe avoidance settings within that it adding calculation times.
it is just way to slow for it in the initial processing, coffe and cleaning the room maybe is what you can do meanwhile.

vonpietro
09-03-2014, 08:38 PM
the real question, is for me, how do i use houdini indie with lightwave?

they mention on their website the amazon cloud thingy, anyone have any experience with that?
anyone buy houdini indie and use lightwave?? =)

cheers

prometheus
09-03-2014, 08:50 PM
you don't need to flock more than 100000, then you can clone it 10 times and add randomization http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/wink.gif

hey, it's only 4.00 am... !

sleep ...darnit...


had to test..otherwise I donīt sleep well, you mean clone the particlePFX file? 10 times?
yep that should work, I just did that before you posted your reply, so as long as you set your pfx file to key, you can clone it and move it ..rotate it so it looks like a different flock group.

what I do have a problem with still, tested with 16x16x16 agents..that is 4096 particles, using the flock preset which is the slowest one to use..donīt know why exactly..maybe avoidance settings within that it adding calculation times.
it is just way to slow for it in the initial processing, coffe and cleaning the room maybe is what you can do meanwhile.



some other ways would also to simply displace some points or geometry and attach instances on that, and even just use part/poly move from dpont and some nice node setups...calculation time will almost be none..though I reckon the best naturalistic results would be to use flocking.

lightscape
09-03-2014, 08:53 PM
wow - it's 200 bucks, thats awesome.


If they offered houdini indie for 995 perpetual license I would bite.
200 for annual rental is no go for me. Because then it stops working.
And I estimate the learning curve is atleast 6 months to a year to be productive so I'll consider it next year.

vonpietro
09-03-2014, 09:23 PM
cant you just renew it?

- - - Updated - - -

cant you just renew it?

erikals
09-03-2014, 09:27 PM
maybe avoidance settings within that it adding calculation times.
quite probably, turn it off, editfx is your friend... it's quite fast actually for examples like the one shown in the video,
just edit the bugs in 32sec into video and 37sec into video, no-one can tell. Larry bragged about this feature, didn't quite get it at the time, but it actually is darn useful... :] for a production shot like that i'd take it it'll take you 2 hours to fix, which is very fast actually.
you can even position them 100% like you want to. not sure if Maya / Houdini can do that that easily...


some other ways would also to simply displace some points or geometry
yes, sometimes that can be a good trick, in this case i think flocking-to-particles would be better.

can emitters be merged btw? can't recall...

erikals
09-03-2014, 09:34 PM
$200 for Indie is a steal, unless you are a hobbyist.

can't you just renew it?
yes, you can also upgrade it to the full version, more info >
https://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=172&page=viewtopic&t=33968


the real question, is for me, how do i use houdini indie with lightwave?
fluids > export object sequence, load obj seq in LightWave (then use RSMB for After Effects - more info (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4EIPH-f5I))
objects > use fbx or such to import / export
animation > use mdd to import / export
particles > ? not quite sure actually... (yet)

lightscape
09-03-2014, 10:00 PM
cant you just renew it?

- - - Updated - - -

cant you just renew it?

Yep you can. Its a no brainer for anyone who wants a powerful package really and anyone who doesn't mind renting software.
I just want perpetual licenses just incase the software is no longer used where I work or some personal files I can still open them in the future without having to pay just to check them.
Lightwave for 495 for 3 years, and going, of updates is hard to beat.

Also are there enough tutorials from all skill level. Houdini is mostly a math intensive application after all. I have no problem with lw, max, maya nodes but houdini is another level.

I would be interest in sending animation files from lw and doing fx sims in houdini if that was seamless. Allembic doesn't quite work with lw.
Like that video erikals showed with the robot in water. Animate in lw, max, maya, send scene to houdini for fluid sims.
Lightwave could really use some liquid fx right now. Implementing the houdini engine in lw is probably the most practical direction.

creacon
09-04-2014, 01:06 AM
I guess Krakatoa takes huge amounts of disk space too, but I guess there is no other way, the slowest step is LW displaying the particles. And about the effect, I just slapped a few nodes together, made the preview and posted it, but you can make any movement you want.

creacon




interesting, though the results just looks like some geometry a little displaced and with some ripple effect going on with the surface shading, maybe you just have to many particles in there :D
canīt you get some more turbulent effect with the particle feel still intact? as mentioned..though the tech specified and what it can handle is most impressive, the looks is equal to some simple geometry effect..though I can
understand how extremly cool it will look if you can get a nice flowing turbulent effect swirling around.

Do you now anything about how krakatoa is handling itīs particles and the way it is used in partitions? and filling in particles in rendertime rather than simulating it?

prometheus
09-04-2014, 06:14 AM
can emitters be merged btw? can't recall...

standard particles? you can save out all motions, so select two emitters and save all motions, clear scene add a null or emitter and load the pfx file and the two emitter will be played back as "merged"

edit fx...yes, it is handy sometimes, I recently tried to add a wave motion for a single particle by keyframing it up and down, what I wanted to do was to apply that same motion to all particles at once, but I couldnīt get that to work, I would have to select each node for each particle and paste apply to all for every particle.

prometheus
09-04-2014, 07:46 AM
quite probably, turn it off, editfx is your friend... it's quite fast actually for examples like the one shown in the video,
just edit the bugs in 32sec into video and 37sec into video, no-one can tell. Larry bragged about this feature, didn't quite get it at the time, but it actually is darn useful... :] for a production shot like that i'd take it it'll take you 2 hours to fix, which is very fast actually.
you can even position them 100% like you want to. not sure if Maya / Houdini can do that that easily...



I havenīt actually tested modoīs particle system, apart from the rumours that it is quite slow with lotīs of particles compared to lightwave, it now seem to have extremely cool control, where you actually can sculpt deform the particles, not sure if you can do that directly or if you have to enter the mesh level where the particles path is converted to geometry, then sculpting that and the switch back to particle mode and the particles will follow the recent sculpted path.
That is something I want, I feel edit fx is a little quirky if you just canīt simply set a brush size and edit all particles influenced by that size all at once, instead you only can edit a single particle then apply to the particles
within that brush size.

I actually got the hang of it right now, when editing particle, you can only pick one particle to edit itīs path/motion, in order to have all the other particle adapt similar behavior, you need to right mouse button(or edit value in the tab) click and set a large area in the brush size before you choose apply to all, since only those particles within that brush size will adapt the same motion as the first edited particle.

thought to me it seems like the modo team actually simply used the code behind this and pushed it further, but thatīs just speculating.
It should be possible to do more work on particle fx to catch up lightwaves particle system in that area.

vonpietro
09-04-2014, 01:41 PM
hmm - looks like i'm going to have to get houdini =)
200 bucks is super for it, also i think the bullet stuff is better in houdini as well.

IS there a way to load fbx files into lightwave,
i could not find it in modeler. although i found the export.

erikals
09-04-2014, 01:45 PM
yes, just load it, it will load :]

prometheus
09-04-2014, 02:15 PM
hmm - looks like i'm going to have to get houdini =)
200 bucks is super for it, also i think the bullet stuff is better in houdini as well.

IS there a way to load fbx files into lightwave,
i could not find it in modeler. although i found the export.


bullet is actually easier to get going with in Lightwave, easier to set up and I also think quite faster than in houdini actually, when it comes to flexibility and what you in the end can do with bullet, well ..That is something houdini has the upperhand on.

vonpietro, have you worked with houdini apprentice?

prometheus
09-04-2014, 03:19 PM
By the way guys, I just reinstalled an old houdini master apprentice version, 11.508...I should get the latest of course, but I tested that too on another machine and that version I thougt messed up some things with fluid stuff, so for now I will test houdini master 11.508

Anyway...I need to find a good object sequence importer, if they donīt have one built in in lightwave now which I missed, I want to try the object sequence export of fluids, in order to export object sequence..you have to add a render node goint to render/create render node/other nodes and choose geometry or dynamics (not sure here) once that is added we have to jump in to the output node where the newly created output render node is, and selecting that we can the choose a sop path where we can select from a list the proper fluid and then also set the output file to obj format, then hit render and it should be able to export object sequence of the fluids, I think I managed to get this working some years ago, but I donīt recall the whole process.
firstly I need to find a good obj, sequence importer..there was one guy who made one specificly, but that plugin link isnīt working, he had a sort of lightwave pipeline estabished,check that here...
http://forums.odforce.net/topic/7260-houdini-to-lightwave-pipeline/


Not sure..is there a free real flow obj,sequence importer?

erikals
09-04-2014, 03:55 PM
Not sure..is there a free real flow obj,sequence importer ?

i believe the LW native one should work,

import object number 0001
open numeric
go to geometry
under object replacement choose object sequencer

prometheus
09-04-2014, 04:11 PM
i believe the LW native one should work,

import object number 0001
open numeric
go to geometry
under object replacement choose object sequencer


Thanks..how silly, of course that works..I just didnīt have any succesful obj sequence export from houdini derived from fluids, it only exports out the main shape I am using for the fluids, so either I am giving the output file the wrong extension or I pick the wrong node in the sop path...or something.

erikals
09-04-2014, 04:13 PM
easy to forget, 1000 things to remember... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

erikals
09-04-2014, 04:20 PM
maybe check these > https://www.google.no/search?q=object+sequence&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs&gfe_rd=cr&ei=JOUIVJuCFcW-wAOBqYHIDg#rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=rcs&q=export+object+sequence+Houdini+

prometheus
09-04-2014, 04:25 PM
maybe check these > https://www.google.no/search?q=object+sequence&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs&gfe_rd=cr&ei=JOUIVJuCFcW-wAOBqYHIDg#rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=rcs&q=export+object+sequence+Houdini+

Lol...did you check the first google result at the sidefx site? that was actually me ..my alias prometheus wasnīt available so I am called phamarus there, that was 2008..and am still not getting anywere with it:D

Partly probably cause I didnīt get any proper or good answer to it all, not to blame the houdini guys, but nothing beats the assistence you get from the lightwave community.

erikals
09-04-2014, 04:47 PM
hehe, yeah, that name had a certain "kling" to it... thought about you when i read it, "and, hey, look, he is from Sweden too..." http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

absolutely, the XSI and SideFX users ain't exactly known for rumbling their forums, it's damn quiet...

check this one though, bit more activity here > forums.odforce.net

prometheus
09-04-2014, 04:58 PM
hehe, yeah, that name had a certain "kling" to it... thought about you when i read it, "and, hey, look, he is from Sweden too..." http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

absolutely, the XSI and SideFX users ain't exactly known for rumbling their forums, it's damn quiet...

check this one though, bit more activity here > forums.odforce.net


yeah ...I think I lurked around odforce to once, I just posted a question about the obj sequence export in sidefx apprentice forums and hopefully someone can jump in and give a simple answer, most of the times I get just more confusing answers
that ends up being a mathematical node riddle unfortunatly, so if that donīt work I will try oddforce.
exporting out a single frame from fluids as a mesh is easy by just selecting it and change type to geometry then export obj, but I and we need to know where to select the proper operator in the sop path and make sure to give it the proper obj extension etc for a sucessful obj seqence export.

prometheus
09-04-2014, 05:12 PM
Ah...I had to keep the proper obj work prefix in order for it to export the seqence...and it goes something like this...
$JOB/Desktop/fluid test export/$F.obj


I selected the wrong operator though, so all obj sequences turned out as a ball only :) have to check more.

erikals
09-04-2014, 05:27 PM
i found this Houdini > LightWave plugin interesting, as it should import the velocity vector as a morph map in LW
this basically means you will get true motion blur in LightWave, just like you would with RealFlow (instead of using RSMB tricks)
http://forums.odforce.net/topic/6093-geo-import-for-lw

prometheus
09-04-2014, 05:34 PM
Thanks for the heads up on that erik..will check tomorrow or so...
Right now I solved the issue of obj sequence export from houdini, first it didnīt export the sequence, but that is now solved..will take notes and screenshots and post it.
then I didnīt choose the right operator ..meaning I only got a whole lot of obj files of a single object.
the right operator seem to be fluid_surface, and voila I got the fluids exported out as obj sequence...checked the obj files individually and it seems to be correct, however, trying to load them in Lighwave by just loading the first obj and select object sequencer donīt seem
to work properly, not sure if lightwave needs some sort of extension or naming convention for the object sequencer to read it right.

my obj files came out named 1.obj 2.obj 3.obj etc.

I found this...it was broken before and he had a written obj,sequence importer and even a houdini geo.importer...but I am not sure if he simply removed or replaced it with some of the other scripts there?
http://interialabs.de/lw/lscript/

erikals
09-04-2014, 05:53 PM
I found this...it was broken before and he had a written obj,sequence importer and even a houdini geo.importer...but I am not sure if he simply removed or replaced it with some of the other scripts there?
http://interialabs.de/lw/lscript/

maybe you are mixing them up from this post ?
http://forums.odforce.net/topic/7260-houdini-to-lightwave-pipeline/?p=48619

can't recall inertialabs had one, could be wrong though...

prometheus
09-04-2014, 05:58 PM
maybe you are mixing them up from this post ?
http://forums.odforce.net/topic/7260-houdini-to-lightwave-pipeline/?p=48619

can't recall inertialabs had one, could be wrong though...

I probably did, maybe batch edit works to convert obj sequences to lwo sequence files?

erikals
09-04-2014, 06:05 PM
i think so, also he had a global surface changer from what i recall...

but currently, the biggest challenges are >

add motion blur to the sequence in LightWave
export particles to LightWave
add motion blur to the particles in LightWave

the RealFlow plugins would solve this, but it's not legal, unless you rent/own RealFlow... :l

prometheus
09-04-2014, 06:08 PM
Cant get scrub replace to install in lightwave 11.6.2 32 bit, so it is probably to old, the batch edit...I canīt select any directory or obj files to convert to lwo in modeler with that...weird.

do I manually have to go through each individual obj file or what?

Edit...oh..I had to check change surface before it could acess a folder, but it dont load in the files as a batch, not even a single obj file

erikals
09-04-2014, 06:13 PM
i'm not sure actually, i never used it...

maybe it has to be named 0001.obj or so...

prometheus
09-04-2014, 06:14 PM
eh..it did something...but it feels awkward, anyway it seem to have converted to lwo...I will be back:)

erikals
09-04-2014, 06:18 PM
looks to work in this video > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ5Q2tDAV1Q#t=6m00s

erikals
09-04-2014, 06:22 PM
Surface Loader
might be of use later on...

Sequence Object Surface Loader python script
http://www.clintons3d.com/plugins/lightwave

prometheus
09-04-2014, 06:22 PM
well tested the lwo sequences, but it is just the same as the obj files, it doesnīt seem to load all obj files properly.
I checked that video too and downloaded at cnet.download.com, I ran the installer but I brute quit it since it was about to install some browser features etc baked within the software..and that isnīt good.

I couldnīsee why the obj names werenīt good from scratch nor could I see what he renamed them too, his video quality is so poor I canīt tell unfortunatly.

prometheus
09-04-2014, 06:31 PM
hereīs my obj files, if anyone is up to try and object sequence import it, maybe it needs to be renamed somehow, fearing it wont handle 1.obj and 10.obj and 100.obj in right order?

See attachment zipped folder of 109 obj files.

erikals
09-04-2014, 06:34 PM
i know, was tricky to read... :/

looks like the objects were named Xxxxx_001.obj

erikals
09-04-2014, 06:44 PM
http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/wink.gif

erikals
09-04-2014, 06:49 PM
first step >


http://youtu.be/baB-WHRAXDQ

app > http://www.joejoesoft.com/cms/showpage.php?cid=108

prometheus
09-04-2014, 06:50 PM
Giving up on this..I need to get up at 7 am

erikals
09-04-2014, 06:52 PM
second step >


http://youtu.be/uVQSyNGIHEM

prometheus
09-04-2014, 06:54 PM
Ah thanks erikals, though it could be something wrong with the obj files anyway, or the object replacement in lw 11.6.2
if you can..try and load the files with object replacement and see if it looks like fluids.?
maybe before I brush my teeth and go to bed? :)

- - - Updated - - -

Dam...your fast..
it works...great


I will post guidelines and screenshots from houdini tomorrow for the proper export process, so we all know how to:)
Thanks for the link to the better rename master.

lightwave community rules, I still awaits the first response in the sidefx forums:)

erikals
09-04-2014, 06:55 PM
you mean surface replacement ?


I will post guidelines and screenshots from houdini tomorrow for the proper export process, so we all know how to

great stuff, thank you... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif

we're getting closer... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/beerchug.gif

erikals
09-04-2014, 07:01 PM
lightwave community rules, I still awaits the first response in the sidefx forums... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

hah! those grandma's... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/cat.gif

though... (!!) i've found some pretty alright fluid tutorials done at vimeo / youtube... so that's cool... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

prometheus
09-04-2014, 08:27 PM
I got some help for the naming of the output files in houdini, it should be ($F3.obj) and not ($F.obj) Thanks to edward over at sidefx forums.

two screenshots, might be able to record the process later or fix a pdf file for it.



http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124040&d=1409884035


124039

vonpietro
09-04-2014, 10:49 PM
I never did get to play with houdini, but i talked to the guys and gals there over the years and watched the product really mature.

they used to show up at the siggraph meetings years ago.
very friendly bunch. They wanted to get houdini into as many peoples hands as possible even back then.

i'm downloading it today, i'm really keen on checking out the simulation capabilities of houdini, fire, smoke stuff.
I need some dust raised by r2d2, and i tried turbulance plug in, got some nice results after 7 trys with the free version. still i wasn't able to figure out how to turn off the smoke, like stop emitting at a certain frame.
since my lil project is all composited together it doens't matter where i get my dust from.

CaptainMarlowe
09-04-2014, 10:50 PM
A little OT, but since Creacon hopped in.... any news on your fluids particle system ??

prometheus
09-05-2014, 12:59 AM
I never did get to play with houdini, but i talked to the guys and gals there over the years and watched the product really mature.

they used to show up at the siggraph meetings years ago.
very friendly bunch. They wanted to get houdini into as many peoples hands as possible even back then.

i'm downloading it today, i'm really keen on checking out the simulation capabilities of houdini, fire, smoke stuff.
I need some dust raised by r2d2, and i tried turbulance plug in, got some nice results after 7 trys with the free version. still i wasn't able to figure out how to turn off the smoke, like stop emitting at a certain frame.
since my lil project is all composited together it doens't matter where i get my dust from.

good to start and try with houdini apprentice, remember to always start apprentice in administrator mode, or you can get troubles every time you start, since if you have closed houdini and restart it, it will ask for license each time..I think, and if you are not in admimistrator mode it will protest.

houdini fire and smoke...hot stuff indeed, but beware of that it might be much more complicated to understand than turbulence, and in my 11.508 houdini version it is actually much slower than turbulenceFD at least that is how
I perceive it..turbulence is way more easier for me to use really and to get results as I want faster than in houdini, but ..as always..thereīs no end to what you can do in houdini as opposed to what you can do with turbulenceFD and lightwave.
What you probably will encounter issues with, that is how to select things, and to stand in the right level object level/or container level etc..so somethings will simply return errors since you are not operating in the correct level.

I just recently started my old apprentice version again..and I realized that I really enjoy the navigation by pressing space bar and right mouse click to zoom, middle mouse to pan, and left mouse to rote.
preferably you would rather model in ligthwave, but there are things about houdini modeling too that actually feels better once you get used to it, if you for instance add a box select a face and use polybevel, the manipulation gizmos is great to either
extrude out, scale or move with constrained axis very nicely, hit q to repeat the polybevel tool.

just some initial tips..you will also run in to things like there is no camera in the scene by default as it is in lightwave, and no f9 button either, you have to create a new camera first and before you can start render you have to create a render node..
so things like that comes way more easier and natural in lightwave.
keyframing will also probably feel a little odd on how it auto keyframe or add keyframes.
Sculpting can be little tricky if you are not in the right obj level, but then it is quite nice to have...not the same as zbrush ..but it is there for you to sculpt rocks or landscape anyway, you can then simply click on the volume tool and you have a fog volume based on that sculpted object...or go to cloudfx and create a volumetric cloud rig.

creating box or grid or sphere ..if you click on those tools you need to move your mouse in the scene so it shows up and click place it where you want or directly hit enter so it places the object in origin.

editing values are either done by entering in the numeric values, which donīt seem to have sliders ..in fact they donīt have, you middle mouse click in the value fields and drag left or right to slide value by increase or decreasing it that way, for global uniform scale you do not middle mouseclick in the value fields..instead middle mouse click and drag on the text "size" or "rows" etc and it will global scale at once....now that is something
we can not do in lightwave...I have requested that feature often since I think it is to over do something by adding the same value three times for x,y,z axis :) if you want uniform/global scale on those fields.

erikals
09-05-2014, 01:23 AM
prometheus, if you have the time, could you save a sequence instead of to $F3.obj
save it to $F3.hclassic ?

was thinking of testing this LW Houdini plugin > http://forums.odforce.net/topic/6093-geo-import-for-lw
to see if it still works and adds the motion blur data

prometheus
09-05-2014, 01:29 AM
prometheus, if you have the time, could you save a sequence instead of to $F3.obj
save it to $F3.hclassic ?

was thinking of testing this LW Houdini plugin > http://forums.odforce.net/topic/6093-geo-import-for-lw
to see if it still works and adds the motion blur data

you mean save to $F3.bgeo ?

erikals
09-05-2014, 01:32 AM
sort of, like Eetu says here > http://forums.odforce.net/topic/6093-geo-import-for-lw/?p=123975

it looks like you have to make a $F3.hclassic
in order to make classic .geo files, then i guess i have to rename after that, or something...

prometheus
09-05-2014, 01:47 AM
here you go!

had to choose hip:geometry files but I actually think I simply could just choose any output job setting and just rename the extension from bgeo to geo, I did that from bgeo to obj when I managed the obj sequence
so I will try that later too just to see if it works that way too.

prometheus
09-05-2014, 01:51 AM
I have to sleep now, but I wouldnīt be surprised if you find something new erikals, just to torture me alive in non sleeping mode for some minutes more:D

erikals
09-05-2014, 01:57 AM
thought you slept, haha! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

i'm a bit skeptical here, much can go wrong, but crossing fingers... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/goodluck.gif

thanks, having a look...

prometheus
09-05-2014, 02:04 AM
thought you slept, haha! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

i'm a bit skeptical here, much can go wrong, but crossing fingers... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/goodluck.gif

thanks, having a look...

I tried it in layout, but maybe I am going wrong with it, added a null then run the ee plugin, but to me it looks like it is a saver and not a loader

erikals
09-05-2014, 02:25 AM
it's both... i was confused by it too, the loader doesn't have an interface... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


http://youtu.be/F9dP1UthRUw

alright, looking again, the morph map might actually be correct, just that it's exaggerating the movement on purpose...

but there is something wrong i think, as it only creates points...

prometheus
09-05-2014, 02:33 AM
yes..i noticed that too, I can load all geofiles at once as layers directly in layout too, so I was wrong out the first time too.
and as you mentioned, it has no surface data.
will try again tomorrow.

Michael

erikals
09-05-2014, 02:44 AM
great http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

if we get the surface data to work, we might get it all to work...

i actually found a very good thing, and that is that this means that outputting particles from Houdini to LightWave
should be straight forward, if the plugin works as i hope that is...

cool stuff... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/hammer.gif

prometheus
09-05-2014, 02:56 AM
great http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

if we get the surface data to work, we might get it all to work...

i actually found a very good thing, and that is that this means that outputting particles from Houdini to LightWave
should be straight forward, if the plugin works as i hope that is...

cool stuff... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/hammer.gif

it might, skeptical about the loss of surface data though.
I fast tested a particle emitter and ran the same process of creating a render node/output node...and added the popnet in the SOP path, then created output file to bgeo, and hit render..and it saved out bgeo files with increasing data..but that is enough for today, will check what data I can extract in to lightwave for particles.

prometheus
09-05-2014, 03:05 AM
yepp..getting particles in with obj sequence worked from houdini at least, first I loaded the first obj file, and since that is the very start of the emitter, no point is seen, so of course I had to go to the object replacement and select that, and scrubbing the timeline showed
points increasing..but where were they? extremly small of course compared to a standard lightwave emitter.
so that needs to be rescaled somehow globally.

I also had to add hypervoxels and show particles to make them appear.

lightscape
09-05-2014, 03:15 AM
I got some help for the naming of the output files in houdini, it should be ($F3.obj) and not ($F.obj) Thanks to edward over at sidefx forums.

two screenshots, might be able to record the process later or fix a pdf file for it.



http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124040&d=1409884035


124039

How's the difference in the interface from houdini 10 to the latest? Anything major?

prometheus
09-05-2014, 03:23 AM
How's the difference in the interface from houdini 10 to the latest? Anything major?

canīt say, this is a little older apprentice version I reinstalled..because my machine was screwed up for some year and a half ago maybe, and I recovered a full system disc so It was just to reinstall the license, on the other hand I had a laptop
with a later apprentice version, but that one went screwed up not long ago and now I have to fix that one, so I will not install the latest until I fix that one and test it there, though in this apprentice version I am using now..it doesnīt have the cloudfx tools unfortunatly, so in the end I will most likely install the latest versions sooner or later, but now I focus on some of this, havenīt actually touched houdini for several months, maybe half a year, until today.

prometheus
09-05-2014, 03:26 AM
this is the basic emitter with a basic noise field in houdini, obj sequence exported and imported to lightwave with native obj replacement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt3JrB6596g&feature=youtu.be

erikals
09-05-2014, 04:30 AM
blurring the "particles" looks to work http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif
after all, they are not really the Houdini particles, but maybe this means that the Houdini particles can be exported / imported fairly easily and support motion blur (unlike pure obj sequence import)

here is a crude example, but the idea gets across...

http://www.erikalstad.com/cgtemp/HoudiniParticleBlur.gif
http://youtu.be/QCHeR-EMHB8


scene attached (eetu plugin is needed)

erikals
09-09-2014, 09:04 PM
not sure how many are testing the Houdini < > LightWave workflow, but if you do,
you might want to use a RamDisk when working with the huge files in LightWave

a RamDisk is 10-20 times faster than an SSD or so... (!)

free ImDisk instructions >
http://www.tekrevue.com/tip/create-10-gbs-ram-disk-windows

do note, the files in the RamDisk folder will be erased on restart, so beware

yes, RamDisk, like from the Amiga days... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

erikals
09-12-2014, 09:01 AM
ps, http://forums.odforce.net is where the Houdini action is,
remember, if you ask / reply, be sure to click the "Follow this topic" button...

http://www.erikalstad.com/cgtemp/FollowHoudini.png

erikals
09-15-2014, 06:51 PM
nice Houdini particle tutorial >


http://vimeo.com/95644892

ncr100
09-15-2014, 07:28 PM
OT: Something fun, browser-based particle + turbulence simulation: http://david.li/flow/

probiner
09-15-2014, 08:05 PM
That's fun, ncr100, thanks!

erikals
09-16-2014, 03:21 AM
browser-based particle + turbulence simulation: http://david.li/flow/

Wow, thought my Gpu fan was about to hit the ceiling !
Fun stuff, darn fast sim... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

Dan_Ritchie
09-16-2014, 05:38 PM
I tried out the fly problem with flocking at 80,000 particles, and the flies were so dense you couldn't see the background behind them, so I'm not convinced you need millions of flies in this scene for it to work. You could always composite several passes if you had to. We forget when we see these shots on peoples reels that they probably spent weeks and months figuring out how to do them, and hours per frame rendering them and compositing them and etc. If they were easy, they wouldn't be on a reel.

Oh, forget about 32bit lw though. The most ram you can address in a 32 bit app is 4 gigs, but in reality it's 2 gigs or less (you could try the old "Large_Address_Aware" app if you can find it. In 64 LW, I've done not quite half million complex instances on a low end 4 gig machine and the main limitation was I hit about 2.9 gigs of memory usage, which as about all the machine could handle. Rendering wasn't a problem at all, if you consider 20 minutes a frame not a problem. Wish we had this stuff back on Roughnecks. Millions of them!

jasonwestmas
09-18-2014, 04:51 PM
neet that GPU sim worked great on my GTX 780. 2Million was a little choppy but still. I was impressed how far technology has come.

erikals
09-26-2014, 06:58 PM
http://www.vimeo.com/106985231

prometheus
09-27-2014, 08:50 AM
this is one thread that escaped from my mail subscriptions..weird, I did a manual subscription now and letīs see how that works.

erikals
09-27-2014, 09:04 AM
alright, lets see if this bump works... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


http://vimeo.com/106930270

prometheus
09-27-2014, 09:09 AM
yes..it did, thanks..and awesome flip fluids..I guesa alembic export could be something to export from houdini and import it with the mdd reader alembic mesh in lightwave?, at this stage I havenīt looked in to it and it is probably limited with houdini apprentice?

erikals
09-27-2014, 09:27 AM
i don't think alembic supports that at this stage (?)

MauricioPC
10-09-2014, 09:29 AM
Hoping that LW v12 will have a nice workflow with Houdini. If that happens, I guess I can never use anything from Autodesk again. That would be nice!

erikals
10-09-2014, 11:41 AM
it's possible to create good communication between Houdini <> LightWave by using AHK, but it requiers some work and time

www.autohotkey.com

MauricioPC
10-09-2014, 01:11 PM
My main concern (since I really like FX) is to bring whatever I create in Houdini to LW. I've read this entire thread and some others and there's some work-arounds. Just hope that with LW v12, be it Alembic or anything else, that it works better.

Worst case scenario I guess I could do the scene assembly and render through Houdini. Problem is that Mantra is hard to learn, so it'll take some time until I can get proper renderings.

erikals
10-24-2014, 06:35 AM
Houdini Sand Solver preview >

nice, but a bit jittery in the last example... :/


http://vimeo.com/109551393

SaleVonGeist
10-24-2014, 03:51 PM
yes..it did, thanks..and awesome flip fluids..I guesa alembic export could be something to export from houdini and import it with the mdd reader alembic mesh in lightwave?, at this stage I havenīt looked in to it and it is probably limited with houdini apprentice?

Alembic supports point/poly count changing geometry, just unfortunately current LW implementation does not (guess due to LW architecture). If you wish to export something with steady point count you can go with either Alembic or MDD, but to transfer FLIP sim (either points or meshed surface) we really need better LW Alembic implementation if possible. It would also have to support transferring all those point/vertex attributes from sim (velocity, churn, custom ones) which are essential for shading and rendering.

Workaround could be some sort of bgeo's sequence importer similar to Realfow plugin for LW, but without surfacing nightmare where you have to set surface for every object in sequence (this kind of stuff is where LW's non unified app approach really makes you pull your hair out :) ).

I guess the only thing is to wait and see how will LW go about those drawbacks.

erikals
10-24-2014, 06:07 PM
(guess due to LW architecture)
not so sure, my guess that it's just simply not done yet. NT has focus on other things. but i wish they gave it a shot.

things seem rather straight forward with the eetu plugin, but i need to give it more test-runs
it works just like the RealFLow plugin

surface override, did some search on that, and it should be possible, but again, need to test...
time to buy Houdini Indie i guess, i've been delaying it for a long time now...

a small minus is that it seems Prometheus and I are the only one testing it atm, hope to see some other Wavers join the quest

tyrot
10-24-2014, 06:15 PM
i could join the quest but since i downloaded Cinema4D demo - i feel a bit dizzy... in a good way.. it is really fast to do almost everything -

erikals
10-24-2014, 06:31 PM
well, just bought Indie this second, hopefully it won't gather dust... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

erikals
10-24-2014, 07:56 PM
installing Houdini Indie, seemed to work alright... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


http://youtu.be/ag29xX6FFBk

SaleVonGeist
10-25-2014, 06:55 AM
not so sure, my guess that it's just simply not done yet. NT has focus on other things. but i wish they gave it a shot.

I hope you are right, and I would really like to see that feature in next LW update.


things seem rather straight forward with the eetu plugin, but i need to give it more test-runs
it works just like the RealFLow plugin

surface override, did some search on that, and it should be possible, but again, need to test...

I know of eetu's plugin just never had time to try it out. :(


a small minus is that it seems Prometheus and I are the only one testing it atm, hope to see some other Wavers join the quest

I did some testing few years ago when I started using Houdini and to this time if I have non changing topology I just use MDD to transfer stuff. In any other case I don't bother because it's either too much of a hassle or impossible (transferring volumes for example), and I just render those elements with Mantra. It can be tricky sometimes to reconstruct shaders so you get matching results from both render engines, but it really depends on a project/shot and involves some planing and decision making beforehand.

Another thing you can do if you wish to transfer some of the geometry attributes to use inside LW for shading or whatever (again in constant topology scenario) is to render those as UV texture map (just make sure that UVs are applied as vertex attribute).

ianr
10-26-2014, 10:15 AM
i'm not cross -posting really, but some of this thread may contribute to the

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?142837-Is-anyone-trying-to-briidge-the-Houdini-Engine-in-to-Lightwave

mix of things, meanwhile, I look forward to this continuing.

Netvudu
10-29-2014, 04:29 AM
welcome Erikals :D

erikals
10-29-2014, 06:29 AM
thank you! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

ahh, so much to test, so little time... :° :]

erikals
11-06-2014, 02:19 PM
Houdini, just showing what's possible >


http://vimeo.com/109928177

tyrot
11-06-2014, 02:22 PM
totally depressing:)

erikals
11-06-2014, 02:51 PM
totally depressing that i haven't learned how just yet http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

but totally cool that we can do it with Houdini Indie, and of course mix it with LightWave animations,
either by importing or post processing...

prometheus
11-06-2014, 03:21 PM
Im just more impressed of the modeling and animation of the dragon itself.

I wonder though, the statement of "out of the box" which kind of was sort of a trademark statement newtek used for lightwave...I think houdini might be the one that is the most complete package in terms of what it can deliver
"out of the box" with liquid fluids,particles,dynamics, pyro fluids etc..

Michael

Tranimatronic
11-06-2014, 03:28 PM
ok, fair enough.
Question I have is how did they get the dragon IN the building in the first place ?

erikals
11-06-2014, 03:39 PM
prometheus, nah, i think LightWave suits the phrase better.
even with it's bit clumsy M/L workflow, it is great at Modeling / Animation / Rendering

Houdini on the other hand is basically great for VFX,
for other stuff it gets too complex or slow in workflow, Modeling included...

imo, LightWave wins this one...


Im just more impressed of the modeling and animation of the dragon itself.
the idea behind the test was probably to see how heavy of a scene Houdini could chew

prometheus
11-06-2014, 06:06 PM
prometheus, nah, i think LightWave suits the phrase better.
even with it's bit clumsy M/L workflow, it is great at Modeling / Animation / Rendering

Houdini on the other hand is basically great for VFX,
for other stuff it gets too complex or slow in workflow, Modeling included...


imo, LightWave wins this one...


the idea behind the test was probably to see how heavy of a scene Houdini could chew


Uhmm think I disagree with you on the out of the box package, sure lw is great and easier to work on with modeling in some ways, but You can model in houdini too ..and it also holds way more tools to model than lightwave has, sculpting, nurbs,parametric modeling...it is however clunkier to work with if you are not custom to it, but thats another thing and probably not so much in the way once you have learned houdini.

out of the box, houdini has top notch liquid fluids, and pyro fluids of top quality, lightwave has nothing of that sort at all out of the box, and purchasing turbulence and real flow isnīt out of the box exactly.
and houdini can render too :) just donīt forget to activate a camera and create a render node first..

Despite the workflow in houdini ...it is more a complete out of the box package in my opinion at least, but of course, if lightwave bundles a liquid fluid solution, turbulenceFD in one package called Lightwave-the prometheus edition
:) it starts to come together really nice.

erikals
11-18-2014, 03:32 PM
more fluids >


https://vimeo.com/111436638

erikals
12-04-2014, 09:59 PM
sand solver in Houdini 14


http://vimeo.com/113441818

prometheus
12-05-2014, 03:34 AM
sand solver in Houdini 14


Awesome

probiner
12-05-2014, 03:53 AM
I just wish they invest more in CA with the right bets and start hurting Maya in the long run :)

tyrot
12-05-2014, 04:04 AM
insane stuff

sadkkf
12-05-2014, 11:56 AM
:oye: You've got to be rich to have that much fun...

probiner
12-06-2014, 03:29 AM
:oye: You've got to be rich to have that much fun...

200$ a year?

erikals
12-08-2014, 02:11 PM
one more...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1UXbhXy2d4

tyrot
12-08-2014, 02:48 PM
come on erikals that is too much!

erikals
12-08-2014, 08:10 PM
nah... why ? http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

prometheus
12-11-2014, 10:12 AM
Hereīs another guy who have done some research and development, not sure how much of that stuff showcased is built on what he have developed or if it is a lot of mix with already existing tools in houdini, a lot of cool fracture, volumetric, and fluid stuff..please check the whole clip...

Igor Kharitonov research & development work.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2MTY1iYQwo

Michael

ianr
12-11-2014, 11:35 AM
We could all play in that sand-pit if we had an active lobby on the Side Effects forum.

I mean if many of us post on it, then they might look at doing a 'Engine' plug in or some

bright coders here could get the code to approach that from Github I think,thats what

those guys told me on thier forum. Instead of 'Sighing' both parties could benifit, guys?

I think LW would be a lovely front-end to a Houdini Pipe, think of Set-ups plugged into

Lightwaves Noders as a new revived third -party market, the cross fertilization would be

a win-win for both!

So vote please

erikals
01-15-2015, 06:44 PM
now with Houdini 2014, there are some new free Sand tutorials, posted here... >
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=252&Itemid=407

http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

JamesCurtis
01-15-2015, 06:54 PM
I just bought into Houdini Indie for a year with Houdini 14. It's going to go into a new computer I'm putting together [or getting] in the next few days. I'm also hopefully getting a new added 2nd LW 2015 license as well.

planarsurface
03-01-2015, 03:11 PM
Maybe i am blind but i can't find the information regarding an annual upgrade plan for Houdini Indie. Are you guys shure that it's 199 USD for only one year? :help:

Netvudu
03-01-2015, 05:40 PM
It is. The License administrator marks the expiry date and itīs one year from my purchase.

erikals
10-24-2018, 02:42 AM
Oliver :king: & Wolf :king: has made a motion blur plugin   :bowdown:

https://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?155473-OD-2018-Tool-Set-Released&p=1557095&viewfull=1#post1557095



https://i.imgur.com/pygI7Cu.gif