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View Full Version : "Select Nth" in dox?



jeric_synergy
08-04-2014, 07:33 PM
Is "Select Nth" in the dox, or should I submit a fogbugz?

--Although, just the fact that it doesn't show up in SEARCH makes it a bug in my opinion. :thumbsdown:

JBT27
08-11-2014, 05:16 AM
I can't see it. Select Path is missing too.

Julian.

jeric_synergy
08-11-2014, 09:10 AM
Thanks for checking.... :cry:

I guess that makes it fodder for LightWIKI.

---waitaminit: "Select Path"? ....oh, righhhhht, that one.... carry on...

JBT27
08-11-2014, 09:44 AM
I just watched erikalst's Youtube video about Select Nth - it's not the most obvious tool in the box. I use it quite a bit, though it's hit and miss - Modo has a nice implementation of the idea, though I no longer use Modo. Irritating for it not to be documented; amongst other things, when I'm reconstructing historic sites, notably with crenellations, a more transparent and featured version of this tool would be very handy.

Julian.

jeric_synergy
08-11-2014, 10:33 AM
Irritating for it not to be documented; ......
Ya think? :devil:

I mean, c'mon: how could they miss it when it's a line on a checklist? "Did we doc that? List says NO..."

And again: if it IS there, the fact that nobody can find it is the bug.

With no effective user-updateable documentation, this issue will just get worse.

+++
What wowed me on erikalsts presentation was the PATTERN thing: I've used "Select Nth" but only in a very brain-dead way, choosing every other, every 5th and so on. To use the order selection to define the pattern still confuses and impresses me.

JBT27
08-11-2014, 10:54 AM
Hey - just being polite about the docs :) Not sure why, but ...

I don't recall seeing official docs for this, ever.

LW would be so much more powerful if it was documented fully; so here's Newtek, the one comapny who can boost the feature set without asking a coder to lift a finger.

That was also polite :)

Julian.

jeric_synergy
08-11-2014, 03:57 PM
LW would be so much more powerful if it was documented fully; so here's Newtek, the one comapny who can boost the feature set without asking a coder to lift a finger.

That was also polite :)
Julian.
Ha! Good one! And so cost effective! --Might as well try politesse: I tried it for years, gave up, and now I'm just a raging jerk about the whole thing. Seems equally effective, so now at least I get to rant. (Seriously, I was polite for years. Hard to believe, eh?) I doubt anything is actually removed or delayed because of my attitude.

And of course I'm disappointed they've never taken any steps toward a new model of documentation that wouldn't KILL some poor soul. (One shot at getting the dox right? Good luck with that.)

Here's one thing: I think people are 'wayyyy too deferential to the devs, who need someone to collar them and ask "What the f#@% were you thinking when you coded up this piece of dreck?" Just like some architects (:cough: Rem Koolhaus :cough: ) need to be taken aside and told "Your building sucks to maintain, thanks idiot."

I'm hoping the newish management (can't say that for much longer) is just handling the development in a methodical way, with big data sets for alpha testing, and with a notional set of principles visible on each coder's desktop, e.g. "All tools will properly work with multiple selections" and "UV Maps will always be accommodated in a reasonable manner".

What gives ME hope is that in sharp contrast to the previous team, Rob Powers has worked on BIG projects and knows how to get them out the door.

+++
ps: fwiw I seem to recall seeing dox about SELECT PATH, but it may have been a proton thing...which could BE in the 'dox' if they'd implement my scheme....

JBT27
08-12-2014, 03:54 AM
The recent PDFs aren't bad - clearer with examples. But it's a hard fact that when I need to know something about LW, the last place I look is the docs.

It's a big job, no doubt, to document clearly and engagingly, all that LW can do, and how. But if there's one feature I really want to see, it's a complete and cool manual with a video based section backing it up. That's why the community is so good - it's kind of like that, but too fragmented to be the manual, as it were.

Yep, a project manager who can handle big projects has more chance of getting this done, and keeping LW moving forward. But the docs would go a long way. I get an impression that the docs are not really being worked on, beyond the new stuff. In many ways, that's not good management.

It reminds me of a couple who took over a British car manufacturer, years ago - not a big player, but a car that had a following and a dedicated ownership base, but a neglected one, because the previous owners of the company had let it slide. I watched a documentary about them. The woman was saying there was one point early on in the venture when they had only 400 in the bank, couldn't pay the wages, and no new product for months. But they did have a warehouse full of spares. So they launched a catalogue for all these parts, in the press maybe, I don't know, but essentially they got this info out to the customer base, who were gagging for parts and info. They were inundated with orders, and pulled the finances out of the mess they were in, at least until they could get the new model out.

Reminds me of LW: lots of old and neglected stuff that most people aren't sure about; it just needs someone to tell them. Unless LW is in flux and NT don't see the point of documenting stuff they will ultimately ditch. I don't see it myself - this stuff has lain dormant for years, unexplained, overlooked. Not good.

Julian.

jeric_synergy
08-12-2014, 07:55 AM
BeeVee is actively employed in revamping the dox, that's why they have improved significantly.

Here's my take: documentation is too big a job for the resources LW3dG can bring to bear.

Once more: the documentation that BeeVee can produce should be the starting point, the foundation of a crowd-sourced, owner moderated, expanding and evolving set of online documentation, with links to appropriate videos, forum posts, and non-LW3dG sourced websites.

To that end, a staffer should be employed as a moderator to vet all submissions before incorporating them in the dox, and users should be encouraged to contribute just as they do here on the forum. (Contributors should be given credit.)

For instance, while the dox are a great improvement, there're aspects of the current style which I find problematic (a shortage of simple examples, for instance). A giant task for one person, no big deal if some knowledgable user gets a bee in his/her bonnet about some aspect of the program. For instance, I can see a lot of erikalst's short videos getting added to the dox.

JBT27
08-12-2014, 11:11 AM
That would work - save us searching around for the best ones. Add some text, basic stuff. That said, still a patchy effort, and the core toolset needs to be dealt with by NT - alot of stuff is not covered in tutorials and posts from the rest of us.

Julian.

JBT27
08-12-2014, 12:48 PM
Select By Normal, while I'm here, is in the docs - new(ish) tool. Flaky. There's some life I'll never get back. Just been trying it on a ball. Doesn't always update, and when it does, it doesn't make sense. Sometimes it only works by quitting the tool, then activating it again.

Now I need to work with this some more to see how it does work; even the new docs are a tad unclear about it, or maybe it's me. The fact I am now unclear suggests the docs have not been precise. I shouldn't be having to second guess a developer, clear my mind, think left-field, whatever, it should just work, like the docs say it should.

Geez - now I'm ranting.

Julian.

jeric_synergy
08-12-2014, 04:47 PM
That would work - save us searching around for the best ones. Add some text, basic stuff. That said, still a patchy effort, and the core toolset needs to be dealt with by NT - alot of stuff is not covered in tutorials and posts from the rest of us.
Julian.
That's why the existing dox are the STARTING point. ::checks:: Like I said.

It's such a huge job, LW3dG needs to do it. But once it's made, enhancing it is a lot easier.

Ranting about dox: it's contagious. Probably needs a name: RAD Syndrome. :D


PS: the one I fail with is "Select By Map", haven't tried it in a while.....

JBT27
08-13-2014, 02:53 AM
RAD Syndrome? Like it. I'm good with that - will wear it like a badge :D

Yep, agreed on all that ... meanwhile, it will be business as usual for quite some time I reckon, BeeVee's efforts notwithstanding; at least the recent and forthcoming features have and will have some decent docs.

Select By Map? Not even going there :D

Julian.

jeric_synergy
08-13-2014, 11:13 AM
It's like on "write SELECTION dox day", an ice cream truck went by.