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View Full Version : Foundry Colorway stolen ideas frim Colimo



lightscape
07-15-2014, 10:30 PM
http://etereaestudios.com/blog/2014/07/about-colorway-colimo-chat-victor-feliz-motiva/

Colimo devs got duped by the Foundry. Colimo should have protected their IP.

spherical
07-16-2014, 02:58 AM
Not cool.

Gives me a slimy feeling, just reading it.

tyrot
07-16-2014, 05:13 AM
typical - salesman attitude - from Modoman! SUE them motiva! they simply stole it from you! - consider other packages - even octane:)

samartin
07-16-2014, 08:38 AM
No Foundry discussion threads please! They always get deleted, oh wait this one prob won't :)

ianr
07-16-2014, 09:00 AM
Sorry to hear this, never liked him, B that is!

If you have registered proof

take legal advice,but good advice.

See if you've got tech councillers

near by who can advise you first.

Or somebody in Brussels(EU),maybe ?

zapper1998
07-16-2014, 09:22 AM
oh wow

bad news....

cresshead
07-16-2014, 09:41 AM
well, that sucks

to be fair autodesk have gone up in my opinion in comparison...


they BUY the app/company not just copy the tech/ideas and call it their own

Megalodon2.0
07-16-2014, 03:55 PM
I would hesitate to jump to any conclusions.

There are ALWAYS two sides to any story, and hearing only one side AND making a judgment is... not wise. Past experience proves this. ;)

hrgiger
07-16-2014, 04:41 PM
Seems pretty blatant.

cresshead
07-16-2014, 05:43 PM
i'd add this tech for re lighting, re coloring and re texturing has been around for over a decade...discreet combustion2.0 did that back in 2002 - 2003 with a export to combustion workspace from 3dsmax 4.0

so nobody has suddenly 'invented anything new" really other than piping the changes you make in the 2d app back to the 3d scene if you want too...and that's just a script of some sort really isn't it...not earth shattering...cool yes but not THAT cool.

Megalodon2.0
07-16-2014, 05:58 PM
Seems pretty blatant.

"Seems" and "is" can be two VERY different things. Have we heard ANYTHING from The Foundry regarding this accusation?

Edit. It looks like Brad is responding on TF forum and is saying everything was above-board. I have no reason NOT to trust Brad so at this point I will accept him at his word. Hopefully that will turn out to be exactly the case - and I expect it will.

lightscape
07-16-2014, 07:34 PM
DIdn't you hate these guys Megalodon for leaving lightwave in its current state? Jump ship to create their own then later on sell out to Foundry.
Till this day its unbelievable how they got away with copying a lot of modellers ideas and workflow. Endomorphs, falloffs, action center, workflow for weightmaps, etc, gradients, nothing is selected everything is selected, lasso selection, etc. No other 3d software has blatantly copied another software the way Modo has copied modeller.
So its no surprise what they did to Motivo.

lightscape
07-16-2014, 07:38 PM
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=1202128

Megalodon2.0
07-16-2014, 08:57 PM
DIdn't you hate these guys Megalodon for leaving lightwave in its current state? Jump ship to create their own then later on sell out to Foundry.
Till this day its unbelievable how they got away with copying a lot of modellers ideas and workflow. Endomorphs, falloffs, action center, workflow for weightmaps, etc, gradients, nothing is selected everything is selected, lasso selection, etc. No other 3d software has blatantly copied another software the way Modo has copied modeller.
So its no surprise what they did to Motivo.

Yes I did. And I was just as vocal about that as I was about having LW10.x stop at 10.1. VERY annoyed. And then I saw how the politics worked at Newtek and realized that Brad and company were probably equally frustrated and HAD to leave. I learned quite a bit around that time. And I think you would agree, no one on this forum who is not a Newtek employee KNOWS exactly what went down and why - in fact I would bet that most Newtek employees don't know what happened. After CORE and 10.1.... I was quite a bit more open to other POV's. After playing around with Modo, it FEELS very different from LW - but then I don't know what's under the hood. I believe that Nexus is very different from the foundation of LW. But again, I do not KNOW.

I don't KNOW if TF screwed over Colimo or not since I don't know all of the facts. At this point it doesn't LOOK good for TF, but I certainly won't be rendering any judgement so soon without knowing quite a bit more.

50one
07-17-2014, 01:46 AM
When I said that re-lightning been around for quite some time and Colima guys just repacked the workflow, people were like huh?you must be mad....then four pages later everyone is like Relighting been around since ages.

Stories are like buttocks, everyone got their own. F knows what happened but to me the Motiva and Colorway are different apps,it's like Corel and Adobe fighting over Ai / Corel Draw.
Shame that Foundry wasn't smarter and just packed this into Modo.

Whatever, capitalism. More choice for us. To be fair Colorway is soo slow and awkward to work with with complex scenes not to mention that it increase the rendering time 6 fold...

Darth Mole
07-17-2014, 05:03 AM
DIdn't you hate these guys Megalodon for leaving lightwave in its current state? Jump ship to create their own then later on sell out to Foundry. Till this day its unbelievable how they got away with copying a lot of modellers ideas and workflow. Endomorphs, falloffs, action center, workflow for weightmaps, etc, gradients, nothing is selected everything is selected, lasso selection, etc. No other 3d software has blatantly copied another software the way Modo has copied modeller. .

I believe parts of modo are indeed identical to LW, because Allen Hastings and Stuart Ferguson owned bits of the code which they took with them as part of the deal with NewTek. That's why some features, tools and warning text boxes identical - they haven't been 'copied; it's the same underlying code. However the apps look and feel very different these days. And, after all, there are only so many ways to add falloff to a tool or to select points etc.

lightscape
07-17-2014, 05:09 AM
Not to derail the thread into a core debate. I'm not for a complete rewrite. Takes too much resources and too much money for an unknown ROI.
And who knows about the internal politics? Nobody.

The similarity of modeller and modo back in the day. Took me less than 10 hours to be productive with modo because modelling in it is so similar to modeller, right down to the lists of vertexmaps and how you create them. Can't say the same with softimage, maya, max. It took me a whole lot longer to be familiar with them. If I gave someone else my custom menu for modeller and layout I'm pretty sure they would feel alienated. :)
Anyway its not about a competing product. Its right there on the cgtalk link. Post 7 and 11.
If Autodesk did something like this they would be crucified.

Wickedpup
07-17-2014, 06:09 AM
If Autodesk did what? From where I am sitting it´s far from clear what has been going on. So like Megalodon I think I´ll wait until I have some more facts. But someone seem determined to use their buckets with black paint.....

tyrot
07-17-2014, 06:45 AM
what other side' s fact:) did you read the article? they simply stole it. lets see how u gonna react when your artwork stolen.

50one
07-17-2014, 07:39 AM
what other side' s fact:) did you read the article? they simply stole it. lets see how u gonna react when your artwork stolen.

I suggest you to read the article again, not defending anyone but you just talking rubbish. Fact is, re-lightning been here for over a decade, fact is - they promoted Colimo but after the merger they just created a neater package that does this with Nuke tech(whatever that means) plus can export back into Modo, which in fact is a part of Modo - because it's a kit that export the passes and soem camera/Light info.


Edit: Besides current law states - you can create apps similar in functionality as long as you're not copying the code. Sneaking on Motiva? Perhaps, this is the way capitalism works. Ever been to Business network meeting for startups? What did they tell you? To sneak on your opponents and enquire about their products and prices claiming to be a customer...

Wickedpup
07-17-2014, 07:41 AM
what other side' s fact:) did you read the article? they simply stole it. lets see how u gonna react when your artwork stolen.

Wow, such observation and deduction skills. Sherlock Holmes is in da house. Case solved. :D

tyrot
07-17-2014, 08:35 AM
i wonder how you observe this mr.watson:) please do not hesitate to share your wisdom..

"Yes, but then the time started to run, and giving the fact hat I didn’t received anymore news from them regarding to this subject (even if we spoke about other projects) I just assumed that they simply were not more interested on Colimo.

Cristóbal: Until past latest week, I assume…

Víctor: Exactly. Now we arrive to July 2014 and magic!: Colorway appears. Bill Collis regularly and quickly answered to me by Skype, but no more actually. Although I must admit that Brad Peebler is standing up for himself, even if he don’t finds ethical problems with what has happened.

Cristóbal: I understand why you are not exactly happy, now… Some final words, Víctor?

Víctor: I want to stress that my “anger” is not because the competition, not at all!. It bothers me that they requested the meetings, asking for functions and other details, when they had this in mind (create their own product so similar to ours)."


actually modo stole - my favorite ex-lightwaver "proton" earlier..so it hurts i give you that :)

50one
07-17-2014, 09:11 AM
i wonder how you observe this mr.watson:) please do not hesitate to share your wisdom..

"Yes, but then the time started to run, and giving the fact hat I didn’t received anymore news from them regarding to this subject (even if we spoke about other projects) I just assumed that they simply were not more interested on Colimo.

Cristóbal: Until past latest week, I assume…

Víctor: Exactly. Now we arrive to July 2014 and magic!: Colorway appears. Bill Collis regularly and quickly answered to me by Skype, but no more actually. Although I must admit that Brad Peebler is standing up for himself, even if he don’t finds ethical problems with what has happened.

Cristóbal: I understand why you are not exactly happy, now… Some final words, Víctor?

Víctor: I want to stress that my “anger” is not because the competition, not at all!. It bothers me that they requested the meetings, asking for functions and other details, when they had this in mind (create their own product so similar to ours)."


actually modo stole - my favorite ex-lightwaver "proton" earlier..so it hurts i give you that :)


Stole Proton? Nah, he seems to be really happy advocating Modo these days, down to point where it gets ridiculous - "why I love Modo" video comes to mind. Anyyyyyyway. i don't know, i've never been on that meetings with them, nor you guys so fck knows what happened, maybe some misunderstaind, maybe not, who cares let them work this out.

tyrot
07-17-2014, 09:23 AM
"that video " - oh i remembered ...yes yes.. it was something .

at foundry there is also a thread where - "the man" replies ...i wont repost his - very comfy coffee - replies.. you may read on there..

Wickedpup
07-17-2014, 10:04 AM
actually modo stole - my favorite ex-lightwaver "proton" earlier..so it hurts i give you that :)
Real sob story there :cry: ....but at least a partial explanation to your bias :tsktsk:

trick
07-17-2014, 11:14 AM
i'd add this tech for re lighting, re coloring and re texturing has been around for over a decade...discreet combustion2.0 did that back in 2002 - 2003 with a export to combustion workspace from 3dsmax 4.0

so nobody has suddenly 'invented anything new" really other than piping the changes you make in the 2d app back to the 3d scene if you want too...and that's just a script of some sort really isn't it...not earth shattering...cool yes but not THAT cool.

In the early 90's there was a rendering app called ModelView (a side-app to MicroStation) that did recoloring/texturing, even with respect to reflections (GI was nonexisting by that time!). Always wondered why it took so long before someone else picked up this tech.

OnlineRender
07-17-2014, 11:51 AM
Kill this thread before it breeds !

WilliamVaughan
07-17-2014, 12:19 PM
Had no idea I was stolen....That's what I get for being so busy and not paying attention :)

jwiede
07-17-2014, 06:25 PM
Nothing about this is in any way "clear", nor is there any obvious wrong-doing in what was described thus far. You'll carefully note that the Colimo guys never state their technology was stolen, nor that they had any sort of claim to the general notion of relighting/recoloring (because they _couldn't_ make such claims, they did not "invent" / "discover" the concept of relighting/recoloring -- prior art existed _long_ before Colimo ever did).

If Colimo really believed Foundry stole protected IP from them, then they would describe what was stolen, and give evidence it was stolen. Foundry just releasing a similar-functioning (broadly) product is NOT wrongdoing by itself, nor does it prove any aspect of it came from a few meetings with Colimo (note that Victor did not say private IP workings were ever discussed in said meetings).

All the folks attacking and denigrating Foundry/Lux already over this are just destroying their own credibility, condemning without any actual evidence or substantiated basis.

Newtek/LW3DG should delete this thread ASAP, it clearly violates forum rules.

shrox
07-17-2014, 06:43 PM
http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2014/jul/11/tire-fire/

Everyone in my town is reeling from this couch and tire fire.

http://lostcoastoutpost.com/media/uploads/post/10610/tirefire.jpg

Snosrap
07-17-2014, 06:45 PM
Had no idea I was stolen... You're not stolen, just lost. :)

WilliamVaughan
07-17-2014, 07:45 PM
You're not stolen, just lost. :)

lol

now that made me literally laugh out loud!

Wickedpup
07-18-2014, 01:16 AM
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/community/blog/entry.aspx?id=410
For someone having something stolen from him he seems really calm about it. Must have been easily duped, or maybe they bought his silence? Can not wait for Tyrot Holmes' theories.

lino.grandi
07-18-2014, 01:27 AM
Guys, I don't think this thread is going anywhere good. I don't even like the title, which tends to assume a little to much. Going to lock this thread.