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Tony3d
07-08-2014, 08:20 AM
Are there any tutorials that actually show you how to plan out the flow of a sub patched model? Planning out the model is one of my biggest problems? Really wouldn't try to use this technique on any of my client work for a very long time. Afraid of getting so far then having to start over again due to all kinds of issues that can crop up. For instance, I did the speaker, and radio without much difficulty, then tried what seemed to be a simple fan remote, and came across a ton of issues. In the end I could punch out the holes for buttons in the spots they needed to be, the one I did put in ended up being on different angles. I'm just not getting this! Took me all day to make this piece of crap! The middle button is suppose to grouped in the button row, but the mesh distorts to much If I try to move it. Another thing how can you Boolean in the holes, If I try that everything turns to ****, how do you fix that? Feel lost again.

3dbr
07-08-2014, 08:51 AM
http://youtu.be/KthT84iRGQg
http://youtu.be/ck_bSZrhQds
http://youtu.be/0glD1Iw1mpQ
http://youtu.be/Ug-X9VwqB6w

jeric_synergy
07-08-2014, 09:39 AM
I've been finding as you work along the flow becomes apparent. Planning it out beforehand would be very difficult:

122852

watches video:
"FIX 3-5" !!!!!??!!??! son-of-a-b.......

arghghghgh! ;)

sampei
07-08-2014, 10:02 AM
you could try drawing it on paper before diving into modeler, this helps me out when I'm unsure on how to approach an unusual mesh...I also use different colors to simplify the topology into smaller regions, rather than trying to visualize it all at once.

jeric_synergy
07-08-2014, 10:20 AM
Also, once you get a good "hole module", make sure it mates nicely w/the next, and then you have a pre-fab hole you can scoot around whereever you need it.

djwaterman
07-08-2014, 10:31 AM
Because you're still thinking that you can just boolean things (which you can but only if you have a plan and are going to fix up the mesh afterwards), it's more a mesh construction, you're not carving stuff out. It does take time to get an understanding so take the time, try making any kind of a shape, and then make it again but a little different, slowly you can build up some knowledge of how to further refine shapes until they are doing exactly what you want them to. When I was learning this stuff (still learning) I would just look at other peoples meshes, there's such a thing as an ugly mesh, like your remote, it looks okay if you can't see the wires, but the wires show a lot of stretching, you are doing what I used to do, making the shape with the least amount of divisions. It took me a while to just realize that the shape is the goal and not some idea of optimum poly count, and if you need more divisions you put them in, the best meshes are more or less regularly divided over the whole object with areas of concentration in detail areas. This is not a quick learning curve. It might also be helpful to follow a good modelling tutorial step by step, you would only need to do that once because it gets sort of tedious mindlessly following along. This one modeling the Defiant spaceship http://simplylightwave.com/lightwave-tutorial/t553/ it seems the work flow is traditional poly-modeling and then halfway through he goes through the process of converting it to a quad sub-patch model so that might be good for you.

Ultimately you will experience an AHA moment and everything locks into place. Definitely don't give up.

Tony3d
07-08-2014, 12:07 PM
Thanks again everyone. I actually rendered it out with textures, and it early doesn't look that bad. If I could only put that middle button where it belongs, i'd say it's pretty acceptable. When you think about it, I have only been doing this for 9 days, and have made the speaker, radio, remote, and Perfume bottle if you include the tutorial. Guess thats not to bad, I mean they could have been jobs right? I post it in a bit.

Tony3d
07-08-2014, 12:16 PM
Here it is. It has Issues I know.

JoePoe
07-08-2014, 12:40 PM
Two things..... IMHO :D:

1) regarding this specific object:
I know I have three holes side by side. If each hole is eight sided, then going across I need 10 polys (personal preference... I like a spacer poly in between each hole and to each side). 122857

2)General comment.... again IMHO:
I commend you on the intensity of your new SubD modeling adventure. I think, however, you are making things a little harder on yourself than necessary at this point, which will, and is, of course leading to frustration.
Flying solo... i.e. picking an object and modeling it from scratch is difficult enough, but even harder when you're still just getting familiar with general poly flow concepts and tool behaviors. You've already done the basic tutorials on how to put a circle in a cube type stuff. Now, personally, I would recommend following a bunch more "whole product" tutorials. You can work on things, start to finish, that are well beyond what you could get three steps into on your own. Your understanding and skill set will skyrocket! .... without the stress of figuring out each step along the way on your own.

AND.... I know you are primarily interested in hard object modeling, but I strongly suggest including several organic tutorials as well.

Keep up the good work.

Tony3d
07-08-2014, 01:13 PM
Two things..... IMHO :D:

1) regarding this specific object:
I know I have three holes side by side. If each hole is eight sided, then going across I need 10 polys (personal preference... I like a spacer poly in between each hole and to each side). 122857

2)General comment.... again IMHO:
I commend you on the intensity of your new SubD modeling adventure. I think, however, you are making things a little harder on yourself than necessary at this point, which will, and is, of course leading to frustration.
Flying solo... i.e. picking an object and modeling it from scratch is difficult enough, but even harder when you're still just getting familiar with general poly flow concepts and tool behaviors. You've already done the basic tutorials on how to put a circle in a cube type stuff. Now, personally, I would recommend following a bunch more "whole product" tutorials. You can work on things, start to finish, that are well beyond what you could get three steps into on your own. Your understanding and skill set will skyrocket! .... without the stress of figuring out each step along the way on your own.

AND.... I know you are primarily interested in hard object modeling, but I strongly suggest including several organic tutorials as well.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks Joe, Do you know what tutorials I should look at. I have had so much grown at me, I'm beginning to get confused. One more question. In this ball is there anything that can be done to better smooth the poles of this where? Thanks.

Tony3d
07-08-2014, 01:55 PM
http://youtu.be/KthT84iRGQg
http://youtu.be/ck_bSZrhQds
http://youtu.be/0glD1Iw1mpQ
http://youtu.be/Ug-X9VwqB6w

I like this thanks.

JoePoe
07-08-2014, 02:35 PM
Thanks Joe, Do you know what tutorials I should look at. I have had so much grown at me, I'm beginning to get confused. One more question. In this ball is there anything that can be done to better smooth the poles of this where? Thanks.

Let me think about specific tutorials. It is important to know though .... how do you like to learn?
I can't go through a pdf to save my life, so it's all about videos for me. Some people are the opposite,... or can do either.

As far as that pole goes...
24 sides.... actually a sticky little problem. You can try a reduction process to bring that down.... or create a quad patch.
But the simplest answer would be:
1)Keep the pole as tris.
2)Add extra control loop(s) close to the point of convergence. This will go a long way to calming the area down
3) select the convergence point go to Detail > Polygons >Fix Pole

Not gonna be super perfect, but much much better.

jeric_synergy
07-08-2014, 06:14 PM
re "3-5 Fix": you don't even have to SELECT the polys, it finds them itself!!!! Sheesh...

Tony3d
07-09-2014, 06:39 AM
Let me think about specific tutorials. It is important to know though .... how do you like to learn?
I can't go through a pdf to save my life, so it's all about videos for me. Some people are the opposite,... or can do either.

As far as that pole goes...
24 sides.... actually a sticky little problem. You can try a reduction process to bring that down.... or create a quad patch.
But the simplest answer would be:
1)Keep the pole as tris.
2)Add extra control loop(s) close to the point of convergence. This will go a long way to calming the area down
3) select the convergence point go to Detail > Polygons >Fix Pole

Not gonna be super perfect, but much much better.

I learn best by watching video's.

jeric_synergy
07-09-2014, 08:28 AM
As far as that pole goes...
24 sides.... actually a sticky little problem. You can try a reduction process to bring that down.... or create a quad patch.

According to my "LW-PerimeterCount" document, a 6x6 quad patch will have 24 perimeter points.

JoePoe
07-09-2014, 09:19 AM
According to my "LW-PerimeterCount" document, a 6x6 quad patch will have 24 perimeter points.

Yes.... but the result is "bumpy" in it's own way.
Maybe a reduction and then a patch. or a double reduction. But both are fairly involved solutions. was trying to keep it on the simpler side.... but sure many ways to skin this cat (maybe I shouldn't say that on such a cat centric board 8~)

JoePoe
07-09-2014, 09:37 AM
Ahhh!

QuadSkinPatcher gives a bit of a different result!.... comes out a bit flat. Even after running Spherize too.

I did a patch by hand and it's much better. No reduction either.

122876 122877

jeric_synergy
07-09-2014, 09:54 AM
Ha! Added a note about "QuadSkinPatcher" to the PerimeterCount document, that should help me remember it! (A major challenge, believe me.)

SO, did you massage those points in that patch?? W/a sphere in the backgrnd?

JoePoe
07-09-2014, 10:03 AM
SO, did you massage those points in that patch?? W/a sphere in the backgrnd?

Yes.... but no sphere in background. Just ran Spherize afterwards (changes the size of sphere but that's easy enough to deal with).
I guess you can put a copy of the original sphere in background as reference to resize. :thumbsup:

jeric_synergy
07-09-2014, 10:19 AM
Yes.... but no sphere in background. Just ran Spherize afterwards (changes the size of sphere but that's easy enough to deal with).
I guess you can put a copy of the original sphere in background as reference to resize. :thumbsup:
Dude, we're showing our age: we could use HeatShrink with the original in the background. d'oh!

JoePoe
07-09-2014, 10:25 AM
I don't know what it is I'm showing.... :D

Would if I could! Don't have it.
Still should have thought of it though....

jeric_synergy
07-09-2014, 10:32 AM
I always thought BackgroundConform would do..... SOMETHING... but I never figured out what it did. :stumped:

But it sounds like it should do it.