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Every4thPixel
07-04-2014, 05:57 AM
Is there a way to import Maya's Bifrost Alembic cache files in to LW? I made a water simulation in Maya using Bifrost and I thought it would be cool if I was able to render it in LW but obviously the Fluid cache is something else than the normal geocache Maya normally uses. The Bifrost cache file is basically an object sequence so the MDloaders in LW don't work with this kind of cache.
Is there an other way to get the cached mesh files in LW?

ernpchan
07-04-2014, 10:44 AM
If it's a mesh sequence you could bring it in as an object sequence. It's what people do with Realflow.

phillydee
07-08-2014, 10:33 AM
Is there a way to import Maya's Bifrost Alembic cache files in to LW? I made a water simulation in Maya using Bifrost and I thought it would be cool if I was able to render it in LW but obviously the Fluid cache is something else than the normal geocache Maya normally uses. The Bifrost cache file is basically an object sequence so the MDloaders in LW don't work with this kind of cache.
Is there an other way to get the cached mesh files in LW?

Sounds interesting... I haven't gotten around to playing with BiFrost yet but! I wonder if you can somehow mesh out the simulation and then re-export an OBJ sequence of the meshed sim with this script:

www.creativecrash.com/maya/script/maya-to-houdini-particles-mdd-obj-exporter

erikals
07-08-2014, 11:06 AM
i'd rather use RealFlow btw, afaik, BiFrost isn't quite "there" yet...

not in terms of fluids, or other stuff... the SI guys still have a long way to go...

so for speed and quality, use RealFlow...

chikega
07-08-2014, 12:22 PM
I'm interested in the Houdini Engine.

3DGFXStudios
07-08-2014, 03:12 PM
i'd rather use RealFlow btw, afaik, BiFrost isn't quite "there" yet...

not in terms of fluids, or other stuff... the SI guys still have a long way to go...

so for speed and quality, use RealFlow...

Yes that could be right but that's not really a solution here. If you own maya it's not really a solution to say: use realflow. Have you seen the price tag on that one?

Every4thPixel
07-08-2014, 03:25 PM
Yes that could be right but that's not really a solution here. If you own maya it's not really a solution to say: use realflow. Have you seen the price tag on that one?

Exactly!

The maya implementation feels like a rough diamond but I do like the naiad sims better then the realflow one's. I think it's a matter of time....

Hey phillydee! That looks like a nice script. I'm going to check out if this script will export the Bifrost cache when I have the time. (could take a while ;))

erikals
07-08-2014, 07:52 PM
the RealFlow solution is very cheap if you rent it, but so is Maya i guess...

yep, from what i know they are working hard on improving Bifrost, so future implementations should be better.

renting RF and Maya seems to be about the same price for 3 months... ~$230

Every4thPixel
07-09-2014, 03:29 AM
This thread was supposed to discuss the options to get Bifrost data in to LW. I own Maya not Realflow. I've tried RF in the past and I don't like it.

MauricioPC
07-10-2014, 10:13 PM
This thread was supposed to discuss the options to get Bifrost data in to LW. I own Maya not Realflow. I've tried RF in the past and I don't like it.


Victor Hugo, a great brazillian artist, made the cover for the latest 3D World magazine. There he used 3ds Max and Maya, but maybe his workflow can be used by you. Here's a quote:
"Using alembic files
Exporting from Maya
... Maya’s Alembic is a really powerful tool, not just for caching your simulations but also for exporting it to other software. I am using V-Ray because of its Alembic Support. This means I can import animated mesh and particles as a V-Ray Proxy. After simulating the sea in Maya, it’s time to send it to 3ds Max. Start by clipping any undesirable polygons from Bifrost’s generated mesh. I use Bifrost’s Meshing Clip. Inside the node viewer, load the Bifrost node and the mesh that you will use as a mask note: Bifrost will keep what is inside the mesh, not delete it). Expand both nodes and link the Out Mesh from the geometry with the Mesh Clip Input Mesh from Bifrost Shape. When you generate the Bifrost mesh, it will automatically clip the undesirable mesh. Before you save, check if the Write Color Sets and Write Face Sets option is checked, this means you can store Bifrost’s vorticity information within the Alembic file.

Back in 3ds Max, once more use the VrayProxy tool to import the Alembic geometry into 3ds Max. You can load the same Alembic cache that you used on the Bullet simulation."

kfinla
08-14-2014, 09:41 AM
I think neither LW's Geo cache , or its Alembic importers can handle varying point counts like a fluid or particle sim would often generate.. Bummer!

m.d.
08-14-2014, 10:51 AM
i'd rather use RealFlow btw, afaik, BiFrost isn't quite "there" yet...

not in terms of fluids, or other stuff... the SI guys still have a long way to go...

so for speed and quality, use RealFlow...

The fluid solver in Bifrost has nothing to do with SI guys.....they are using a few of them on the team for integration and developing a graph interface for non TD to do some technical stuff with it in the future.

Bifrost comes out of autodesks purchase of exotic matter and Naiad....which was probably the best fluid simulator on the market.

That was a rumour started that Bifrost was ICE....because they both sounded icy....somebody thought they were making a fluid simulator out of ICE tech. The rumour took on a life of its own especially on this forum to the point that even when it was widely known that it was Naiad people still think it is an extension of ICE

ICE is simply a visual programming interface nothing magical. It is likely much slower them compiled C++. Houdini can be faster then C++ but only using VEX nodes.

ICE style environments are good for artists and TD's who want to get technical, but for a serious development....if you want ultimate performance it usually means coding in C++.....even C# is around 20% slower as it is managed memory.
The point being ICE was a programming environment....Naiads solver is algorithms. The programming environment is useless outside of SI....algorithms can be easily adapted.

Bifrost is Naiad at heart which is no joke. The only reason some SI guys are on it is because they were recycled after SI got cancelled.

http://www.cgchannel.com/2014/03/bifrosts-marcus-nordenstam-on-next-gen-fluid-sims/

MauricioPC
08-14-2014, 08:02 PM
If you watch this, you'll see that BiFrost actually is a some of Naiad with ICE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DucKeXM_gHM

It's going to be powerful, problem is, I guess it has more 2/3 years before it gets really good like ICE was.

m.d.
08-14-2014, 08:56 PM
Don't see it....care to link exactly when?

If you are talking about the DG or dependency graph.... that goes way way way back...maybe to Maya 4 or earlier. The DG is an early alia/wavefront patent. Fairly powerful, but not as deep as Houdini or ICE was. But different then ICE, more like Houdini...wasn't limited to a certain context. The DG runs at the heart of Maya and is the core of what makes it tick...the DG IS MAYA. They are just exposing some of the internals like you would through the hypergraph. In the hypergraph you had access to a lot of DG nodes. You can even bring in keyframes as a node and reverse the animation with an color invert node....think Node editor in Lightwave but with Nodal motion, nodal surface and nodal displacement all linked together in one interface.


For instance....Houdini has multiple solvers hard body dynamics solvers. One of them is bullet, and another is a RBD (sidefx) solver. They both work in the nodal interface the same way....but 1 solver is definitely bullet and was ported into Houdini.

Naiad is the core of the solver....it was ported to Maya...it is not ICE because it is not SI...ICE existed inside of SI, it does not exist inside of Maya.....maya already has the DG at it's core.

Now they will expand on the DG as they did with ICE....but it is merely a nodal interface with different solvers able to communicate with each other...same as houdini

MauricioPC
08-15-2014, 06:29 AM
Yeah, you are right. The fluids sims do look great.

m.d.
08-15-2014, 08:07 AM
It's mostly semantics....as of course there is ICE inspiration.....in the fact they want it to grow to were ICE was.

But the solver is Naiad, and the data flow graphing is Naiad. The key technologies and underlying core of what will power Bifrost in the future is all former Naiad tech, including the internal graphing and run time compiling of the graph.

erikals
08-15-2014, 01:59 PM
sorry i derailed the thread,

but yes, what Ernest says, export it to an object sequence, like they do for RF...

if you want to export particles too, you could try Maya2LW... > http://thespread.faulknermano.com/index2.html
it can import particles too, afaik
it's a bit old though, so you'll just have to test and see if it works, or send him, Lernwel D. Ang "faulknermano" an email