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View Full Version : REPLACE with OBJECT FROM SCENE -?



jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 05:31 PM
You can LOAD items from a scene, but can you REPLACE an object with an object from a Scene?

For instance: you've tweeked the timing on a morph in a test scene, and now you want to replace the placeholder object with the completed morphing object. You want to preserve the morph envelope.

ernpchan
06-22-2014, 06:09 PM
Not that I know of.

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 06:12 PM
Dagnabit!

++++
Fogbugzed:

71243 (Open) FReq: REPLACE from SCENE // item replacement

A "REPLACE FROM SCENE" would be useful.

This would act similar how LOAD ITEMS FROM SCENE works, but would replace an existing item.

While provision for all items (Objects, Cameras, Lights) should be included, mostly I see this as useful in IMPORTING Objects and Object Hierarchies to replace placeholder objects.

EG, the situation that sparked this idea was an Object that had a specific Morph envelope: I wanted to import this Object WITH its morph envelope into an existing scene, replacing the static placeholder. AFAICT, this is not possible directly.

ernpchan
06-22-2014, 06:40 PM
There's an option to merge motions when doing a LFS. But I don't think that'll help your situation.

One thing to consider is working with a pipeline that'll make updating scenes easy, either by creating scripts that update other scenes or use mdd files for final deformations.

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 06:53 PM
Well, this was just a quite simple situation: a recreation of Cody's "Network Mograph-ish Animation", or whatever it's called.

BTW, I'm a huge fan of Cody and Jen's presentations, I just wish they came out once a week or so.

Anyway, as it is the animation resembles FAR too closely Plexus-style mographs (which AE covers quite superbly), so I decided to first replace the spherical object at the intersections with a rotating "gemstone", and for another whack at it I was going to substitute a morphing spikey-ball. Which is when I realized that "REPLACE FROM SCENE" doesn't exist.

Since this is a feature that seems rather basic, I made a feature request via FogBugz.

For instance: if you made an animatic and just used a static figure moved around, tin-soldier wise, to do your blocking (as was depicted in the "making of 'Population Boom'"), it would be VERY nice to be able to swap in the fully rigged character, possibly with walk cycles, with just one simple command.

IE, "REPLACE {placeholder} WITH {fully rigged character}". --seems obvious. Is there some subtlety I'm missing?

ernpchan
06-22-2014, 07:10 PM
You might be able to do this via scripting.

If we had scene referencing that might be a solution as well.

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 07:28 PM
Scene Referencing seems like a Difficult Problem. --I was surprised at the what seems to me extensive support given Scene Referencing in Blender.

It's the kind of feature that's a nightmare to implement, I reckon. Especially at this late date.

Sensei
06-23-2014, 02:22 PM
Load scene in text editor and edit LoadObject path..

jeric_synergy
06-23-2014, 02:48 PM
It's so simple it seems it should have been there for quite a while.

ernpchan
06-23-2014, 02:58 PM
Hm, I think what Sensei ir talking about is no different than swapping an object out but just doing it via the text editor. This doesn't actually replace the object with the contents of another scene file.

Sensei
06-23-2014, 03:38 PM
Replace Object, Replace Object Layer, AFAIK is replacing geometry, no?
And envelopes, deformations, etc. are still the same as before replacing..

Or maybe you want to load either mesh & all settings, but leave references to that item intact? (Item pop-ups, target, follow etc.)

jeric_synergy
06-23-2014, 03:39 PM
Ah. --Doesn't it seem like a good idea?

ernpchan
06-23-2014, 03:46 PM
Replace Object, Replace Object Layer, AFAIK is replacing geometry, no?
And envelopes, deformations, etc. are still the same as before replacing..

Or maybe you want to load either mesh & all settings, but leave references to that item intact? (Item pop-ups, target, follow etc.)

Yes, but it sounds like jeric wants to replace an object with an object from a scene that has a completely different setup.

For example, you have a proxy of a character that's not doing anything (no rig, etc). In another scene you have the character fully rigged and animated. To me it sounds like Jeric wants to replace the proxy with the fully animated one but do it by doing a LFS that automatically swaps out the proxy with the LFS version. To me I'd just do LFS, resetup whatever parent-child relationship I have to with the animated one and then delete the proxy.

Maybe jeric can expand on what he wants.

jeric_synergy
06-23-2014, 04:19 PM
ernpchan, it seems you understand precisely what I'm expressing.

I guess one could Replace the proxy with a null and parent the LFS conglomeration to it, but that seems inelegant.

ernpchan
06-23-2014, 04:30 PM
ernpchan, it seems you understand precisely what I'm expressing.

I guess one could Replace the proxy with a null and parent the LFS conglomeration to it, but that seems inelegant.

Yeah, that's something you could possibly script. But if you have a bunch of other dependencies elsewhere...then that gets messy. Doing a basic reparenting of items is easy. This is where if you can kinda predict the workflow process...designing it to be flexible to account for stuff like this would be good. For example, only allow objects to be animated, linking channels to morphs so you only have to grab the null motion and not the envelope itself, using mdds for final render because they can be referenced across multiple shots, etc. Studios are usually pretty draconian when it comes to pipeline stuff to streamline efficiency.

jeric_synergy
06-23-2014, 04:46 PM
No doubt! That would require a great deal of discipline, or enforcement. No doubt worth it.

There's an article in that: "Making your meshes portable!" --btw, do you mean, pretty much, NO unlinked Envelopes? And using Morphs as the link, so it's all imported as one block?

ernpchan
06-23-2014, 05:07 PM
There's an article in that: "Making your meshes portable!" --btw, do you mean, pretty much, NO unlinked Envelopes? And using Morphs as the link, so it's all imported as one block?

IMHO a proper setup would be to use mdds for final deformation. This way you're not reliant on plugins or other things to keep animation in sync.

jeric_synergy
06-23-2014, 05:38 PM
Hmmmm....{student mode here}... this is academic, but I thought you might want to tie non-deformation envelopes (colors? lights?) to non-visible morphs, but I guess there's no advantage as the morph data is stored in the LWS anyway...

(This in reference to: I remember somebody, Splinegod?, who put a single point morph in an object simply to retain the morph for use elsewhere in the scene. The morph itself didn't deform anything, it was just a form of slider.)

ernpchan
06-23-2014, 05:44 PM
Hmmmm....{student mode here}... this is academic, but I thought you might want to tie non-deformation envelopes (colors? lights?) to non-visible morphs, but I guess there's no advantage as the morph data is stored in the LWS anyway...

(This in reference to: I remember somebody, Splinegod?, who put a single point morph in an object simply to retain the morph for use elsewhere in the scene. The morph itself didn't deform anything, it was just a form of slider.)

Not familiar with the SG technique.

If you really wanna drill down, I would tie envelopes to other items to nulls. One, this is that it's easy to dump all the motions of object items via scripting. I have a couple of scripts that just do that. I then attach another script to my child scenes so they always 'ingest' the updated motion files upon launch. Second, if you need to edit timing of a bunch of items, it's easy to just select a bunch of objects versus selecting an object, then an envelope, etc. Granted, setting up a pipeline this way is very rigid and would require some TD work up front. And one of the nice things about LW is how easy it is to just get in and tweak things. It's a balancing act of creating a workflow that funnels the user into a setup that is efficient for everyone versus restricting the user to where they're handcuffed.