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View Full Version : Who should be the TYPE of USER that NT is going for for future LW dev?



robertoortiz
06-22-2014, 06:55 AM
If you were to describe the type of USER the LW dev team should be targeting
How would these group of people person look like?
Is he or she over under 30?

Is this person in a big studio or be indie devs?
If this person works for studio, that kind of studios do they work in? Is it a Graphic Design shop?, Video Production house?, A game Studio? or a CG Studio?
How big would this facility be?

Would they be using Lw with other programs? If so which ones?
Has this person ever used 3d Before? If yes do they come from what type of environment Maya, Blender, Cinema 4d?
Is this person a current LW users?

Does this person come from a production background? Maybe a videography background?
Are they interested in game dev? Or are they interested in new technologies like 3d printing?


I am looking forward to your ideas on who should be the TYPE of USER that NT is going for for future LW dev.
Ill post mine in a couple of hours.

Shnoze Shmon
06-22-2014, 07:49 AM
LW needs to get back in the door apparently, so that there is an industry looking for people that use it.

But don't forget the thing LW excels at from my point of view. A good path into the industry for those interested. In 2009 when I decided to get into 3D graphics as a career change I found LW affordable, (for the price of building a decent computer I could get industry capable software) learnable (I could teach myself to use it and you had a great booster to that with the 24 hours of training plus new features) and versatile enough (I don't have to use other software to get really good results.)

Dexter2999
06-22-2014, 10:45 AM
Well, it could completely backfire but here's an idea. They need people who don't know anything about 3D.
The educational materials available for LW is, limited. Very much so.
The free 24 hrs of training is a nice thing to have available but doesn't live up to the fullest potential of the idea behind it.
The idea is to give people the tools to teach themselves. But they have to take the extra step of downloading the materials.
Then picking out which video is the one they want. "Oh wait, that wasn't what I thought it was."

What I am suggesting is to take the "Help" file to a new level and perhaps even calling it a new mode.
Go from "Discovery Mode" to "Learning Mode". By engaging this mode, the screen would snap to window presets with numerics panel, point stat panel, layers panel, and a window playing the video to walk a person through software features from step 1.

It would be the software that teaches the people how to use it.

This COULD backfire in eradicating what limited educational offerings are available by simply making the market too unprofitable.

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 11:04 AM
??? Are learning materials THAT limited? Liberty3d not enough?

Now, there is a tonne of stuff on YTube, BUT, and it's a big but, it's not a curriculum. Beginners would waste too much time looking at stuff beyond their comprehension, currently. If LW3dG created a PLAYLIST, which is perfectly possible, they could construct a curriculum that would bring newbies along, but they would be at the mercy of the OPs of the videos.

Dexter2999
06-22-2014, 11:21 AM
??? Are learning materials THAT limited? Liberty3d not enough?


How many books are available to learn Lightwave? If you go to a bookstore and look for 3D what titles do you see? How many Lightwave courses are offered in schools? Yes, in my opinion learning materials ARE THAT limited.

Liberty 3D is great. But, it isn't a step 1 course in using Lightwave. And if I am completely honest, I think most training videos out there aren't professionally produced courses but screencap tutorials. I have courseware I paid for with less than professional audio that has poor headset mic's and you can hear the person's email notifications, phone beeping, etc... A top notch system of teaching that includes zooming on the screen to show what a button says clearly, not just the yellow highlighter. (It doesn't help much on a 13" laptop.) Not to mention some users who make videos don't like to talk at all. A professional voice over would be nice. (Although I freely admit could be lost on users who aren't fluent in English...but as the interface is in English many users know it.)

I'm just saying there is a difference between being a real teacher and showing someone how to do something.

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 11:50 AM
Books: you got me there. Blender has far more, and of course there's dozens for Maya. OTOH, are we any worse off than Houdini?

Dexter2999
06-22-2014, 01:05 PM
OTOH, are we any worse off than Houdini?
Touche.

RebelHill
06-22-2014, 01:19 PM
How many books are available to learn Lightwave?

None (pre-existing titles ofc not counting)... There's utterly no point in producing such for LW anymore, you'd only lose money if you did.

Lewis
06-22-2014, 03:19 PM
They should target ALL types of users - simple :)

robertoortiz
06-22-2014, 03:58 PM
They should target ALL types of users - simple :)

Point made..
But see it from this point of view.
Lightwave needs NEW USERS.
BAD
It is not like existing user of other app will jump into the LW bandwagon.
Our rep is sealed in concrete in the high end market. Thank god the hi end market is going by bye bye,

That means that NT has to offer something to new users
For me this potential NEW USER would be someone like this.



Under 30
work in a small studio/indie developers
Would be instested in GENERALIST 3d Tools that allows for EASY Video Production, Motion Graphics. And maybe explore new markets (more below)
The would be using LW as part of a suite of Tools. Mostly
Interested in the UNITY 3d enngine and VERY FAMILIAR with the Adobe toolsets. Mostly Photoshop and After Effects.
The person would be familiar with 3d Principles but not an expert in any sense of the word.
And the person would have NEVER used LW. This person would be using LW becasue they heard it is VERY good doing doing [X]
The user has an artistic background.
He or she is intimidate by the complexity of hi end 3d app and he or she is looking for a turnkey app that allows for the creation of 3d content with ease.
This person would be interested in new tech like indie game dev and 3d printing?

erikals
06-22-2014, 04:07 PM
did some "research" way back... quite related to this subject :]

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?101561-how-do-you-use-LW
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?105641-what-area-do-you-use-LW-for

could quite possibly provide some answers...

erikals
06-22-2014, 04:21 PM
Well, it could completely backfire but here's an idea. They need people who don't know anything about 3D.
The educational materials available for LW is, limited. Very much so.
The free 24 hrs of training is a nice thing to have available but doesn't live up to the fullest potential of the idea behind it.
The idea is to give people the tools to teach themselves. But they have to take the extra step of downloading the materials.
Then picking out which video is the one they want. "Oh wait, that wasn't what I thought it was."

What I am suggesting is to take the "Help" file to a new level and perhaps even calling it a new mode.
Go from "Discovery Mode" to "Learning Mode". By engaging this mode, the screen would snap to window presets with numerics panel, point stat panel, layers panel, and a window playing the video to walk a person through software features from step 1.

It would be the software that teaches the people how to use it.

This COULD backfire in eradicating what limited educational offerings are available by simply making the market too unprofitable.

books barely used anymore, it's videos that is the new era...

LightWave 11 course
http://www.sharbor.com/products/AGAN3010021.html

and >
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?125893-LightWave-Training-just-a-list&p=1220226#post1220226

----------------------


None (pre-existing titles ofc not counting)... There's utterly no point in producing such for LW anymore, you'd only lose money if you did.

could you emphasis on that... ?

this said, HUGE THANKS to you Craig, i learned a lot from your videos...
i honestly feel a bit bad about it... :/ i hope you do not feel that you lost too much time. sincerely.

robertoortiz
06-22-2014, 04:35 PM
Personally I think we are reaching a new era in terms of expectation of tools.
In my humble opinion most new users would prefer more intuitive toolsets.
And I would assume that they would have little patience for tools that require a TON of training.
I would see theses potential new user as very tech savvy with very little patience.

erikals
06-22-2014, 04:45 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngrobertoortiz
...I would assume that they would have little patience for tools that require a TON of training.

well, yes / no....
i used Maya for some time, and it required a TON of training, it was far from perfect.
i would say this goes for Houdini too,
it goes for Modo as well,
and C4D,
and Max is being abandoned for VFX by AutoDesk (read up on it)
and SoftImage is killed by AutoDesk

so, i wish you would stop painting this black / white image Roberto... :/

none of these packages is perfect at everything (!)

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 04:46 PM
They should target ALL types of users - simple :)
But is that practical?

Not with LW3dG's resources.

Or am I missing the sarcasm?

robertoortiz
06-22-2014, 04:49 PM
It is not black a white or course. Hell it is easy to do Monday Morning Quarterbacking from my point of view, and honestly don't envy the herculean task Rob Powers has in front of him.
I just feel strongly that we need more clarity.

And btw Soft is being BURIED by AD. it is pound by pound the best app in the market.

pinkmouse
06-22-2014, 04:49 PM
The problem is that LW isn't "very good" at anything. It's adequate for most things, and that isn't really a USP. It has too much baggage from the past, (including old time users). Old tools, old ways of working, and old code. If it wants new users, it has to provide something special, and at the moment, it's not doing that. Just half ar$ef patching in the "new thing", whether it be Bullet, Hair or Nodes won't do.

I got back into 3D a year or so ago, and my first move was to buy LW, as I was a user back in the old Amiga days. Frankly, looking back on that decision, much as I love LW, it was the wrong one. I should have saved a bit longer and gone for Houdini. That is my problem, and I'm sure many others feel the same, (though not necessarily Houdini, but C4D, Maya, whatever).

Currently, LW is for hobbiests and fanboys, (yes, at the moment I'm both ;) ), you can do many average things averagely, but to do stunning things well requires far too much jumping through hoops, that is, if you can do them at all.

If I ever get paid work in 3D, I really don't think it will be because of my LW skills, and that is the ultimate condemnation, and that is what LW3DG has to change.

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 05:10 PM
I.... honestly don't envy the herculean task Rob Powers has in front of him.
No kidding. Better him than me.

Even though I'll probably never use them, I thought it was quite canny of RP to bulk up the various pipeline facilities of LW: this allowed it to continue in its current 'secret weapon' status at some big facilities, and gain some breathing room to escape the CORE debacle.

With XSI off the table, maybe there's some niche LW can exploit there.

erikals
06-22-2014, 05:28 PM
LightWave is, i agree, adequate for some things

but i would like to say...

LightWave is a great Modeler
LightWave is great at MoCap editing (compared to the price, few apps comes close)
LightWave is quite alright at CA (i'll add some Muscle sim tricks when Genoma 2 comes out)
LightWave is alright at UV mapping
LightWave has a great Render engine

yes, LightWave is not perfect, but give me an app that is...


If I ever get paid work in 3D, I really don't think it will be because of my LW skills, and that is the ultimate condemnation, and that is what LW3DG has to change.

if so, i think you have to explore other packages and their challenges...

OnlineRender
06-22-2014, 05:45 PM
Point made..
But see it from this point of view.
Lightwave needs NEW USERS.
BAD


wrong, it needs users to stop posting pointless threads and actually open up Layout & modeler and create artwork. (btw that is not aimed at you personally) what I am trying to highlight is a little less conversation a little more action an image speaks a 1000 words " wow cliche overload"

The LW team knows exactly who their target audience is which make this thread a moot point " any company should know this be default , no second guessing it's rule 101 of business"


??? Are learning materials THAT limited? Liberty3d not enough?

NO , the lack of tutorials on Digital Tutors should be enough to indicate this and from what I see * you may correct me here * most tutorials are generated for a pre_existing user base with a meduim-advance level of skill. also dont forget to mention Simply LW "who just released a new tutorial a few weeks back also foundation3D is still active"

Originally Posted by RebelHill
None (pre-existing titles ofc not counting)... There's utterly no point in producing such for LW anymore, you'd only lose money if you did.

Bang on! workload vs payout makes it redundant before you even write the title...

There is decent money to be made with LightWave from a training perspective but it has to be top end stuff ,I mean proper Audio recording Equipment , narrative , direction,quality scene files, peer reviewed before even sending the files to a server for sale dexter highlights this point well in a previous post"


LightWave is not an app for a specific user type it's open to anybody and everyone " MODEL ANIMATE RENDER" ... with money which brings me onto my next point

My grievance is that they still charge for an EDCL when AD are supplying it for free, since it's the World Cup I will use this analogy

you need to start at the grass roots, I mean age 5 years and up... so when these users move up to semi_professional they already have a knowledge base and understanding.

pinkmouse
06-22-2014, 05:48 PM
I'm not saying that other packages are perfect, far from it, and I do like lots of things about LW, but I stand by my assertion, being a LW specialist will not get work by itself. But even if I'm completely wrong, and everything I've said is rubbish, my perception of LW is still the same, and that is what LW3DG needs to change. And frankly, I don't see much hope

erikals
06-22-2014, 05:49 PM
visual presentations is something LightWave tutorials should be much better at... :/

( i'm excluding myself here, as i only present "previews" in my videos , not tutorials )

one day i might create pro tutorials... but that time is not now...
just trying to help some LightWavers along the way...

erikals
06-22-2014, 05:56 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngpinkmouse
I'm not saying that other packages are perfect, far from it, and I do like lots of things about LW, but I stand by my assertion, being a LW specialist will not get work by itself.
um, being a Maya specialist will not get work by itself.


http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngpinkmouse
But even if I'm completely wrong, and everything I've said is rubbish, my perception of LW is still the same, and that is what LW3DG needs to change. And frankly, I don't see much hope

well, then i wouldn't be on these boards... nothing personal, but if you think so, why stay... ?

pinkmouse
06-22-2014, 06:05 PM
Unless something serious happens with 12 I might not. Get me straight, I like LW, I just don't see it has a future unless it find a new direction. I really hope it will.

erikals
06-22-2014, 06:07 PM
believe me, i'm on the same side, i constantly look at other apps, unfortunately they have lacks as well, + a higher / much higher price range...

pinkmouse
06-22-2014, 06:16 PM
And I think that's half the problem, it's sold so cheaply they have no money to spend on support and development. For instance Rob and Lino came here a year or so ago asking what the community wanted for tutorials. The majority wanted to see complete workflows from start to finish. Have they appeared? No. And I suspect that's because they can't afford the employee time, or the freelance rates to pay anyone to do them. Instead we just get more bits and pieces as and when they get around to them.

erikals
06-22-2014, 06:21 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngpinkmouse
it's sold so cheaply they have no money to spend on support and development

from what i read from the developers posts, this is not correct, the "problem" is that it takes time to code.


http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngpinkmouse
Rob and Lino came here a year or so ago asking what the community wanted for tutorials. The majority wanted to see complete workflows from start to finish. Have they appeared? No.

i believe that is because they shifted focus, maybe not a good thing to do without informing, but that's how it went... :/ afaik, they are now focusing on development instead...

OnlineRender
06-22-2014, 06:25 PM
visual presentations is something LightWave tutorials should be much better at... :/

( i'm excluding myself here, as i only present "previews" in my videos , not tutorials )

one day i might create pro tutorials... but that time is not now...
just trying to help some LightWavers along the way...

and if it was not for users like yourself we would be in deep sh!t and I truly mean that from a user perspective... I reference your "previews" nearly every day and the community eat them up , you may consider them as previews I consider them as damn good.

I will say this however , there is a new breed of users coming threw good guys with a whole new outlook and approach to LightWave , the 90s are over legends have came and gone , some taking from us "RIP splinegod" some moved onto other apps ... personally I have been learning Houdini and the main reason is for work you only need to look at the jobs section below , as soon as someone posts you have 500 talented guys scrambling for the job , people like me have no freaking chance some of these users have been using LW since they came out the womb, new users or even semi experinced ones have no hope...

that is the issue here with LW a lot of people have a chip on there shoulder "myself included" and feel cheated , robbed of something which essentially everyone could see everyone knew one day the bubble had to burst ....BUT

I think 12 will actually blow people away , I mean head turner omg the last 4 years was actually worth it...

I think people really do bash on LW " and with good reason at times" s they are bursting there arse working silly hours to get LW back on track and Rob has been a God Send *and others to the point if it was not for his direction / grabbing LW by the balls none of us would be having this conversation because LW would be 6 feet under

Dexter2999
06-22-2014, 06:25 PM
Personally I think we are reaching a new era in terms of expectation of tools.
In my humble opinion most new users would prefer more intuitive toolsets.
And I would assume that they would have little patience for tools that require a TON of training.
I would see theses potential new user as very tech savvy with very little patience.

I think the word "intuitive" is misleading. What is natural to one may not be to another. Such as which way is the Z axis pointing?
It isn't practical to expect the programmers to be able to anticipate what everyone finds intuitive. Or even put the time and money into researching what MOST people find intuitive. Easier to find a powerful, practical, workflow and teach the user how that works.

And videos are only one tool in teaching. They are not the end-all-be-all. They are the current "flavor of the week". Let me ask you this, how many people watch training videos and are taking notes? Writing down key steps/points? You know they make these things that can have that already done for you... Gutenberg worked it out. And get this, they work without taking up screen space! Who'dathunkit?

I will conceed to those making videos, they meeting the demands of the market. But that doesn't mean the market is right. The "Market" also drove video stores out of business in favor of Netfilx...which now sucks while charging you twice the price. It is what "most people" want you to do, but remember "most people" aren't very bright.

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 06:26 PM
It's true that the grass is always greener: I'm sure the other users lust after something LW has.

A dedicated evangelist whose sole task was pimping LW would be good: my recent "YTube Playlist" idea is low-cost, but a fulltime staffer is a tricky hire: you want someone competent enough to impress the yokels, but not so good that they'll up and go to work on the next SciFi television series.

And they have to be glib and personable.

It may be the only way to staff such a position is under a contract, for, say, six months.


+++++++++
re videos: at a certain level, I prefer my informational materials to be STATIC, because it's faster to jump around in. Many videos waste your time mercilessly.

pinkmouse
06-22-2014, 06:27 PM
...from what i read from the developers posts, this is not correct, the "problem" is that it takes time to code.

I'm sure it does, but it's not all coding. Why, for instance, after several versions of LW with nodal surfacing, do we still not have a good list of material presets? Where's the brushed aluminium, the china teapot or the cowhide?

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 06:33 PM
I'm sure it does, but it's not all coding. Why, for instance, after several versions of LW with nodal surfacing, do we still not have a good list of material presets? Where's the brushed aluminium, the china teapot or the cowhide?
Or node networks? Or the same but in Compound Node form?

Like: I know that dot product and cross product can compare vector directions.... or SOMETHING, but the details don't stick in my head (hey, I'm OLD). Just packaging them into a convenient (that word again!) compound node with a Node Comment attached to describe the functioning, would empower a lot of users who can't do trig in their heads.

An afternoon of somebody doing the above with all the 11.n Content materials-- is that pointless? Or time well-spent?

erikals
06-22-2014, 06:38 PM
I'm sure it does, but it's not all coding. Why, for instance, after several versions of LW with nodal surfacing, do we still not have a good list of material presets? Where's the brushed aluminium, the china teapot or the cowhide?

because of the time it takes to create / implement ( remember they have to rise after CORE )
i did post some links to presets here though >
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?127028-60-favourite-surface-presets&p=1265271&viewfull=1#post1265271


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j02cNjk2B8


------------------------

but yes, i'm sure that's on their future agenda...

------------------------

RebelHill
06-22-2014, 06:53 PM
could you emphasis on that... ?

I mean in terms of the time needed to produce a book... its a very involved thing, and the market for training in LW is such that the overall cost of production would be greater than the receipts from sales.

pinkmouse
06-22-2014, 06:59 PM
Yup, Preset Central is great. But not having even basic presets in all the years since nodal stuff was incorporated does not give a very good impression to new users. If they can't afford to do something properly they shouldn't do it.

erikals
06-22-2014, 06:59 PM
Rebel,
so the income for your video tutorials is less than say, $40 an hour ?

(doing the presentation and content that is, excluding the time that you used on experimenting in LightWave over the years)

RebelHill
06-22-2014, 07:02 PM
I know that dot product and cross product can compare vector directions.... or SOMETHING, but the details don't stick in my head (hey, I'm OLD). Just packaging them into a convenient (that word again!) compound node with a Node Comment attached to describe the functioning, would empower a lot of users who can't do trig in their heads.

Dot, to that extent IS a compound node... it spits out a value which represents the comparison between 2 vectors... 1 being the exact same direction, -1 being the exact opposite direction... and values between being somewhere between.

Now sure... you can use that info in a whole BUNCH of different ways... which you could produce compunds for... but most are very specific to a given situation, so the user would need to understand the working of the "inner network" to be able to tailor it anyway. So once again... you can either produce a VAST collection of possible compounds to try and cover as many bases as you can imagine (utterly unfeasable)... or you can let the node editor do what it is purposed for... Allow people to build their own custom tools out of the constituents as needed.

erikals
06-22-2014, 07:04 PM
If they can't afford to do something properly they shouldn't do it.

agree, some of the old presets should be deleted... and new should be added...

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 07:20 PM
So, packaging it up in a Compound node with a more memorable/marketable name, like "Compare Vectors", with a little documentation in the comment field-- documenting the limitations and assumptions, is eminently doable.

This kind of simple labeling would be a great help to me. And dot product is still available in its original, more abstract form. Really, it's just slapping a bit of lipstick on the node, but that works for me.

Someone else today was using 'rocket science' to describe nodes: we want to get it down to "tinker-toys" or "LegosŪ". And part of that can be simple labeling. Dot product, cross product-- that (still!) means nothing to me*, but "Compare Vectors", that I can remember.

Another example: "Surface Detector" -- a compound node that changes the color of a Surface when an item's pivot point approaches that Surface. I know, now, that that's a fairly simple network to set up, but wouldn't it be nice for newbies to pluck out such a (compound) Node from a folder and start using it immediately, without knowing the specifics? They can look under the hood (that's bonnet to you, RH) later to gain understanding, should they want to.


*after watching your nodes videos twice. It's sad, really. I'll be dead soon.
PS we crossposted a bit there, so your final paragraph isn't addressed here.

RebelHill
06-22-2014, 07:57 PM
Dot product, cross product-- that (still!) means nothing to me*, but "Compare Vectors", that I can remember.

No... because DOT is the established, known, and accepted name for the operation. Otherwise... why even call call vectors "vectors"?? I mean... that sounds a bit mathy and technical right... maybe "Space Arrows" would be better.

It may mean nothing to you... but thats why YOU have to learn things the way they are... not expect the rest of the world to change to fit your needs.

Oedo 808
06-22-2014, 08:11 PM
jeric, you're starting to sound like the client more than a user. And not just any old client, one of those clients.

RebelHill
06-22-2014, 08:28 PM
http://tinybuddha.com/quotes/tiny-wisdom-on-adapting/

erikals
06-22-2014, 08:34 PM
like with so many things, just read the last line... http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 08:34 PM
jeric, you're starting to sound like the client more than a user. And not just any old client, one of those clients.
Hey, just trying to sell Lightwave seats.

In return, I offer that the resistance smacks of defending command-line interfaces. ("cue the justification of command-line interfaces in 3, 2,...")

jeric_synergy
06-22-2014, 08:58 PM
:hey:

Oedo 808
06-22-2014, 10:27 PM
like with so many things, just read the last line... http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

Back to top?


Hey, just trying to sell Lightwave seats.

And I'm sure the addition of the Make Magnificent tool would bring plenty of new users, I'm just not sure how realistic that's gonna be, for the moment anyway.

But if it'll help I call on the LWG to add Make Splendiferous, Superbify, MetaAmazeBalls and FFX Pubes Presets, especially including a Brazilian if they can make it for 11.7, or 11.69 at least.


In return, I offer that the resistance smacks of defending command-line interfaces. ("cue the justification of command-line interfaces in 3, 2,...")

Not a Linux user? Command line interfaces are win and UIs are ****ing bloat in many cases, I wonder if you're being sarcastic because there are times when I thank **** it's command line and not some over-designed Windows ****. Probably situations within LW where command line interfacing is exactly what the doctor ordered. The revolution needed for 12, perhaps?

lightscape
06-23-2014, 12:55 AM
Not type of user. Type of partnership for the future.

NT needs to partner with as many companies out there to get the word out that lightwave is being developed and a CHEAPER alternative to other 3d software.
They did a good job with sketchfab. Now do it with shapeways and get the same functionality like sketchfab and make it a one click solution lw to shapeway print. This is doable and shapeways has this in place now. Partner with turbosquid which is the biggest 3d marketplace. Make sure these companies have a banner saying that lightwave has a one click button to get models working with XYZ service.

Partner with 3d programs to bring the lightwave renderer to them. Franchise the renderer to get more money out of lightwave tech and the plus is people will know lightwave renderer is quite capable and they might actually check lightwave out.

erikals
06-23-2014, 03:59 AM
... and where is the "Make Beautiful" button .... argh..!! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/mad.gif

sampei
06-23-2014, 04:49 AM
... and where is the "Make Beautiful" button .... argh..!! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/mad.gif
people have kept telling me about that for years and I still can't seem to find it...but it's true they say, doesn't the computer do all the work? never get's old does it :rolleyes:

robertoortiz
06-23-2014, 06:03 AM
Not type of user. Type of partnership for the future.

NT needs to partner with as many companies out there to get the word out that lightwave is being developed and a CHEAPER alternative to other 3d software.
They did a good job with sketchfab. Now do it with shapeways and get the same functionality like sketchfab and make it a one click solution lw to shapeway print. This is doable and shapeways has this in place now. Partner with turbosquid which is the biggest 3d marketplace. Make sure these companies have a banner saying that lightwave has a one click button to get models working with XYZ service.

Partner with 3d programs to bring the lightwave renderer to them. Franchise the renderer to get more money out of lightwave tech and the plus is people will know lightwave renderer is quite capable and they might actually check lightwave out.

Great post... I would add to that list companies like the makers of UNITY 3D. After all AutoDesk just declared war on them when they bought Bitsquid (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=1191097&highlight=autodesk)

And while this new tech in the ground floor I would establish lines of communication with this company...before AutoDesk buys them.
http://www.nukeygara.com/
The new tech they are developing looks promising.

Surrealist.
06-23-2014, 06:10 AM
None of the above. (well I did not read it all)

Just make a better 3D tool than LightWave was before and keep doing that. Repeat and rinse, infuse new technology and keep going.

The existing user is fairly well already understood and the limitations as to who will use LightWave and how are inextricable from the tools LightWave has to offer.

Pretty much end of story as far as marketing is concerned. Sure you can polish and you can spruce up marketing. But the bottom line is this is a highly technical field and people use the stuff that ....works.... for .... them!

robertoortiz
06-23-2014, 06:32 AM
The problem of supporting ONLY a existing user base is that it is in the long term a war of diminishing returns.
Each year there are less and less of us. And that is not good for the long term prospects of any company.

Surrealist.
06-23-2014, 10:20 AM
By existing user I mean the profile of who that is going to be as well as who it currently is. And that is fairly well known already. And it is a very very diverse group of people which includes a currently growing list of newcomers.

The way you expand that group, is to do what they have already been doing. Because what they have been doing has been working to attract new people. So they just need to keep at it. The changes people want to see ain't gonna happen over night.

And being that the existing user as well as potential user is very well defined already by what the tool has to offer then there is really no need to rethink it.

Major changes here will be determined by the nature of the new tech and tools they develop. Pretty much end of story on that one in my opinion. And since they don't let us in on that process... well...

jeric_synergy
06-23-2014, 10:50 AM
Well, one SUBset of "types of users" would be ALL TRICASTER USERS. That's the one market LW3dG should own.

robertoortiz
06-23-2014, 11:11 AM
Well, one SUBset of "types of users" would be ALL TRICASTER USERS. That's the one market LW3dG should own.
AMEN!
I am blown away that there is not a more direct relation between the Tricaster and LW.
From text to a virtual set market, I dont understand why this is not exploited more by NT.
Hell most virtual sets inthat ihave seen in production are done in Photoshop!

SBowie
06-23-2014, 11:29 AM
Hell most virtual sets inthat ihave seen in production are done in Photoshop!There may be some slight misunderstanding on this point, Roberto. VSE, which is the LiveSet (virtual set) authoring app, accepts layered PSDs as a way to import custom artwork as projects. So yes, you could create them in Photoshop, and that might well be the case for simple things like 'double-box' shots. Often, though, the PSD layer content consist of layers of imagery generated in your 3D weapon of choice.

I'm not arguing that there is no overlap of LW artists and TriCaster users, but I don't think it's any more correct to think of TC users as a subset of LW users than it would be to argue the converse. While some cross pollination occurs (and there can always be more with benefits all around) I think the two markets are substantially different.

robertoortiz
06-23-2014, 11:48 AM
Hi SBowie, let me explain what I have seen.
Here in Virginia our local cale access channel organized by Fairfax cable have set up a sweet Tricaster layout.
They have a nice greenscreen studio with independent dedicated control booth and a separate greenscreen studio.
http://www.fcac.org/

What blew my mind away is that forall the shows they do in that studio using the Tricaster, and there are LOT of them,
NONE OF THEM use Lightwave to create custom virtual sets. And from my talks with the crew, they prefer to use Photoshop templates for custom sets.
I found one 3d guy, and he refuses to use Lw.

I feel strongly that development of Lw tools for that broadcast market (3D Text tools, Buffer Based virtual Set camera moves, Motion Graphics) would benefit Lw greatly.

PS SBowie thanks for you patience with me lately. Defending Lw at work sometimes can be rough.

SBowie
06-23-2014, 12:17 PM
I feel strongly that development of Lw tools for that broadcast market (3D Text tools, Buffer Based virtual Set camera moves, Motion Graphics) would benefit Lw greatly.No-one will disagree that 3D tools can play important roles in video production, of course, and LW is clearly a bargain. A big part of the live production market leans toward content provided by specialists, but if creating custom content can be made friendlier, there may well be room for this.


PS SBowie thanks for you patience with me lately.Oh, it takes no patience at all, Roberto. I appreciate your enthusiasm and contributions immensely.

Lewis
06-23-2014, 12:31 PM
What blew my mind away is that forall the shows they do in that studio using the Tricaster, and there are LOT of them,
NONE OF THEM use Lightwave to create custom virtual sets. And from my talks with the crew, they prefer to use Photoshop templates for custom sets.
I found one 3d guy, and he refuses to use Lw.


Well he can re-edit PSD files TEXT/Logs easily while doing it in LW he would need to remodel from scratch every time so i can understand his position. LW need non-destructive workflows, especially with TEXT/Logo stuff to be competive and usable in such productions (well that's how it was from my past TV experience whne i wokred on TV station, i had same issues working with LW in News/Live studio shows and sadly nothing has changed in that department in LW (and that was 7 years ago since i left that job at TV station)).

robertoortiz
06-23-2014, 03:32 PM
Well he can re-edit PSD files TEXT/Logs easily while doing it in LW he would need to remodel from scratch every time so i can understand his position. LW need non-destructive workflows, especially with TEXT/Logo stuff to be competive and usable in such prodoctions (well that's how it was from my past TV experience whne i wokre don TV station, i had same issues working with LW in News/Live studio shows and sadly nothing has changed in that department in LW (and that was 7 years ago since i left that job at TV station)).
Great post. And you made me think..
My advice to Nt would be the following.
If youare going to expnd the 3d capabilties of the Tricaster they should ditch LW and instead develop a Virtual Set Tool using the Hydra engine.

You could have interactive 3D Text tools that are timeline based.
And you could have 3D virtual sets that are fully customizable by the users.
You could pick some premade camera paths and render buffer sequnces for zoom ins and zoom outs from these virtual sets.
EVENTUALLY these tools could make it into a future release of LW.

erikals
06-23-2014, 06:44 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/images/misc/quote_icon.pngOnlineRender
and if it was not for users like yourself we would be in deep sh!t and I truly mean that from a user perspective... I reference your "previews" nearly every day and the community eat them up , you may consider them as previews I consider them as damn good.

thank you http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif
it's always nice to hear / read that they are of use to Wavers out there... http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

tyrot
06-23-2014, 06:59 PM
+1 - Erikals made me love and use LW more and more - Lets say in my world - one Erikal's equals to 1000 silent users..(may be more) :)

My only humble request - is a big DOWNLOAD file - for all your videos.. :0) I just wanna save it to my hard disk.

erikals
06-23-2014, 07:21 PM
thanks tyrot http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

hey you know, i might do that one day, after all i have no backup of them (hope YT stays online a bit longer) :°

maybe uploading them to a Torrent later on would be an idea...

tonyrizo2003
06-24-2014, 09:09 AM
Hmmm.. so I guess everyone forgot about 3D Garage? Dan Ablan? http://www.3dgarage.com/collections/newtek-lightwave-3d

If you ask me LW3DG might want to contract with Dan to make his book a part of the LW package. To enhance the education of LW, instead of having a user trying to hunt for information. I will bet that everyone or nearly everyone here, likes to have all of their tools at their fingertips? And we have grown accustomed to having information such as this forum, the LW manual, and youtube at our fingertips. I am just saying an inclusive book as Dans' would be a great addition to what we have already as well as Liberty3D and Simply Lightwave as well as others I may have forgotten. I would also like to mention erikals and Rebel Hill, Ryan Roy as well for the wealth of information they bring to the table. If I left anyone out, accept my apologies, there are many very good tutorials out there!

I myself enjoy seeing erikals previews and how the tools work in action besides reading about them. My only thought on any of the videos on youtube is that their is no structure to them in terms of taking a newbie from point A to point B in a specific category, i.e. VFX; water, smoke, ice. Showing people a potential workflow etc...

Here is where you would want to have a curriculum or something like Dans' book, which is already organized in that way.

Just a thought.

jeric_synergy
06-24-2014, 09:36 AM
I think if you want structured, A>B, project oriented tutorials, you'd best drop some money on Dan Ablan or Liberty3d. That's a lot of work.

I'm thissss close to buying Ryan's set, http://www.liberty3d.com/2014/06/ryans-animation-kit/ , it looks comprehensive and he has a really clear style of presentation.

tonyrizo2003
06-24-2014, 11:04 AM
I think if you want structured, A>B, project oriented tutorials, you'd best drop some money on Dan Ablan or Liberty3d. That's a lot of work.

I'm thissss close to buying Ryan's set, http://www.liberty3d.com/2014/06/ryans-animation-kit/ , it looks comprehensive and he has a really clear style of presentation.

I bought the first two of Ryans video, and if you like straight from the hip like RH, then get it! It is worth the money.

And yes you are right A>B tutorials are a lot of work and does require resources and money. But if the user base is not educated in the tool, then how will it spread?

I spoke to Kelly (Kat) Meyers about bundling RH Rigging (for basic understanding of rigging and its purpose), along with Adam Gibson for Genoma work flow, and included both Ryan's first two videos of IKBooster, and then Tom Roth character animation to cap it all off.

So to me we have the material, we are just not presenting it in a way that will allow the user to digest the information in a logical manner. With a bundle as suggested above, a newbie can hit all of the bases they need, or even an intermediate user can brush up on concepts they might have never thought of in terms of rigging. Kelly thought it was a good idea and I expect that he is going to work something out for something like this in the future for Liberty 3D.

RebelHill
06-24-2014, 11:29 AM
The problem with project based tutorial content is that it only teaches you how to complete that one project and it does little to help the user "understand" the toolset so that they can apply the tools in different ways to different situations. Hence why its better to teach the actual toolset itself, and then show it in action in a few different ways so that folk can learn to think for themselves, else you wind up in the situation which Ive seen mny times, where every time a user is confronted with a new challenge, they find themselves hunting round for a tutorial that covers that specific case (which often, there aren't around to be had).

Dexter2999
06-24-2014, 12:04 PM
Well, sorry to sidetrack from the current line of thought about how to approach training. There are some valid points going on right now on both sides.

But, I wrote something earlier and apparently it did not post. So, I will re-enter it here/now.

I stand behind the idea of trying to get new users and I second the idea that Tricaster users should be a target audience. And to that end, I think there are some things that could and should be addressed.
Fundamental tools used by beginners need to be fixed and made bulletproof, more specifically Bevel. I can imagine few things less of the computer crashing, more disheartening to a newbie than trying to put a bevel on something and points cross and their model is "broken". If you are dead set that the tool already works "as-is" then put a check box in the numerics panel to allow the points to cross but by default this needs to not happen.

A MUCH improved text tool needs to be made. Something with preset panel of routed edges to apply, like Vue has (and text isn't even what they do primarily) and possibly a box where you design a custom routed shape.

I know it was mentioned some time ago, but whatever happened to those studio lighting presets someone was talking about having made? Presets are not the end-all-be-all but they give a new user a sense of instant gratification that bolsters their confidence in their learning and in the product.

Revisit the ideas behind the 3D Arsenal project of the past and incorporate those into LW as standard options. Even if it is all on a tab you can turn off if you don't want to see it.

And along the lines of the TriCaster audience, is there any way to give them the fastest preset text rendering function possible? I know on the surface this sounds stupid, but many of these guys use premade animated backdrops and just need some text animated and flown in with an alpha channel to key it in. Some lighting highlights to sparkle on the text. God forbid, lens flares.
They don't need backdrop reflections most of the time. Or Real world cameras, or the absolutely most accurate physics engine to trace the rays of light. They need quick, flashy, ballpark, because their product is on the screen for all of five seconds....maybe.

And one more thing, for the love of god, can we get an animated radius tool for a basic pie chart? Again, something that a new user will want for industrial use.

None of these things are near the complexity of requests like fluid dynamics, better hair, unification, etc...

I know none of this is sexy. It isn't going to break into studios and give LW a high profile. But things like this can grow the market on the low end which I think is easier than trying to grow it at the high end which is largely monopolized by AutoDesk at this point. At the low end, people are less concerned with a lack of point animation and cage deformers, etc... than at the high end. You just need to show them how to use it.

Now to return to the current topic of training.....

robertoortiz
06-24-2014, 02:13 PM
And along the lines of the TriCaster audience, is there any way to give them the fastest preset text rendering function possible? I know on the surface this sounds stupid, but many of these guys use premade animated backdrops and just need some text animated and flown in with an alpha channel to key it in. Some lighting highlights to sparkle on the text. God forbid, lens flares.
They don't need backdrop reflections most of the time. Or Real world cameras, or the absolutely most accurate physics engine to trace the rays of light. They need quick, flashy, ballpark, because their product is on the screen for all of five seconds....maybe.

And one more thing, for the love of god, can we get an animated radius tool for a basic pie chart? Again, something that a new user will want for industrial use.

None of these things are near the complexity of requests like fluid dynamics, better hair, unification, etc...

I know none of this is sexy. It isn't going to break into studios and give LW a high profile. But things like this can grow the market on the low end which I think is easier than trying to grow it at the high end which is largely monopolized by AutoDesk at this point. At the low end, people are less concerned with a lack of point animation and cage deformers, etc... than at the high end. You just need to show them how to use it.

Now to return to the current topic of training.....

This is so true it is NOT funny.
And the things is that this would bea side door to the good graces of the videography crowd. And these type of tools can be spun off into their own products or stright into a LW tool.

tonyrizo2003
06-24-2014, 02:38 PM
The problem with project based tutorial content is that it only teaches you how to complete that one project and it does little to help the user "understand" the toolset so that they can apply the tools in different ways to different situations. Hence why its better to teach the actual toolset itself, and then show it in action in a few different ways so that folk can learn to think for themselves, else you wind up in the situation which Ive seen mny times, where every time a user is confronted with a new challenge, they find themselves hunting round for a tutorial that covers that specific case (which often, there aren't around to be had).

@RH I agree with you here, which is why I proposed your video series first, because that is exactly what you do, it is from there that a person can move onto a project based workflow utilizing that base knowledge. Maybe I did not state it correctly?

tonyrizo2003
06-24-2014, 02:44 PM
Well, sorry to sidetrack from the current line of thought about how to approach training. There are some valid points going on right now on both sides.

But, I wrote something earlier and apparently it did not post. So, I will re-enter it here/now.

I stand behind the idea of trying to get new users and I second the idea that Tricaster users should be a target audience. And to that end, I think there are some things that could and should be addressed.
Fundamental tools used by beginners need to be fixed and made bulletproof, more specifically Bevel. I can imagine few things less of the computer crashing, more disheartening to a newbie than trying to put a bevel on something and points cross and their model is "broken". If you are dead set that the tool already works "as-is" then put a check box in the numerics panel to allow the points to cross but by default this needs to not happen.

A MUCH improved text tool needs to be made. Something with preset panel of routed edges to apply, like Vue has (and text isn't even what they do primarily) and possibly a box where you design a custom routed shape.

I know it was mentioned some time ago, but whatever happened to those studio lighting presets someone was talking about having made? Presets are not the end-all-be-all but they give a new user a sense of instant gratification that bolsters their confidence in their learning and in the product.

Revisit the ideas behind the 3D Arsenal project of the past and incorporate those into LW as standard options. Even if it is all on a tab you can turn off if you don't want to see it.

And along the lines of the TriCaster audience, is there any way to give them the fastest preset text rendering function possible? I know on the surface this sounds stupid, but many of these guys use premade animated backdrops and just need some text animated and flown in with an alpha channel to key it in. Some lighting highlights to sparkle on the text. God forbid, lens flares.
They don't need backdrop reflections most of the time. Or Real world cameras, or the absolutely most accurate physics engine to trace the rays of light. They need quick, flashy, ballpark, because their product is on the screen for all of five seconds....maybe.

And one more thing, for the love of god, can we get an animated radius tool for a basic pie chart? Again, something that a new user will want for industrial use.

None of these things are near the complexity of requests like fluid dynamics, better hair, unification, etc...

I know none of this is sexy. It isn't going to break into studios and give LW a high profile. But things like this can grow the market on the low end which I think is easier than trying to grow it at the high end which is largely monopolized by AutoDesk at this point. At the low end, people are less concerned with a lack of point animation and cage deformers, etc... than at the high end. You just need to show them how to use it.

Now to return to the current topic of training.....

Ok, while I can agree with this side of the coin as well. Wouldn't it be better for a third party developer to tackle this? And let LW3DG concentrate on core tools and functionality? I mention 3rd party because of lets say Trueart? or LWCAD? and the list goes on.

Let's think for a moment to see what we as a community can get developed through a 3rd party programmer. Isn't that what kickstarter is for?

I have in the past hired programers to make small specific tools and paid them their required rate out of my pocket. Mind you I live on a budget as well.

I think it might be interesting to look at say the text tool feature set of C4D and see if money could get generated through kick starter to have a tool like this made? We keep asking LW3DG to do a whole bunch of things, and while I am sure they would like to make these things a priority. It may not be in their best interest as a company to do so?

Maybe these nuts and bolts tools could be supported by the community?

Just a thought.

Dexter2999
06-24-2014, 03:07 PM
Ok, while I can agree with this side of the coin as well. Wouldn't it be better for a third party developer to tackle this? And let LW3DG concentrate on core tools and functionality? I mention 3rd party because of lets say Trueart? or LWCAD? and the list goes on.

Let's think for a moment to see what we as a community can get developed through a 3rd party programmer. Isn't that what kickstarter is for?

I have in the past hired programers to make small specific tools and paid them their required rate out of my pocket. Mind you I live on a budget as well.

I think it might be interesting to look at say the text tool feature set of C4D and see if money could get generated through kick starter to have a tool like this made? We keep asking LW3DG to do a whole bunch of things, and while I am sure they would like to make these things a priority. It may not be in their best interest as a company to do so?

Maybe these nuts and bolts tools could be supported by the community?

Just a thought.

I see and understand your logic, but ultimately I have to disagree. And here is my logic.

If you are trying to grow a new user base, you absolutely do not want person to say, "Okay I bought LW, now I have to buy something else?" Not for something as fundamental as beveling, or text. I can agree with buying plugins for advanced functionality like rigging, animation, fluid dynamics, medical simulations, etc.. But NOT for BASIC FUNCTIONALITY. LW needs to fill the basic needs of users OUT OF THE BOX, not ala carte.

The better they fill the basic needs the better their opportunity grow their user base by word of mouth.

And I am not trying to step on toes and eliminate 3rd party. I have been a proponent of Janus for some time, whereas the majority of LW users are pushing for a native renderpass management system.

I think LW CAD is a great tool. But a person shouldn't have to buy LW CAD to get nicer edges on their text. I will compromise and say the custom edges are something you could buy, but rounded, cove, bevels, etc. should be standard options.

It isn't an easy path. I was conflicted when LW sort of stepped on the toes of the guy making the LW to AE plugin. That was advanced functionality that was worth paying for, and they tried to make it a standard function.

And I love my Bevel++ plugin, but it is a solution for a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

robertoortiz
06-24-2014, 03:19 PM
To add to what Dexter is saying...

most of us have been doing 3D FOR LONG TIME and we take for granted how to do a lot of basic things in the app.
the thing that does seel seats is if an APP can do something RIGHT NOW, WITH EASE for someone in a small production house.
For us, EXPEREINCED USERS it might seem liek toys, but for MOST users (at the entry level) it is a big deal.

Take Text or vector Logos

for most Video houses, they are their BREAD and BUTTER.

tonyrizo2003
06-24-2014, 03:58 PM
I see and understand your logic, but ultimately I have to disagree. And here is my logic.

If you are trying to grow a new user base, you absolutely do not want person to say, "Okay I bought LW, now I have to buy something else?" Not for something as fundamental as beveling, or text. I can agree with buying plugins for advanced functionality like rigging, animation, fluid dynamics, medical simulations, etc.. But NOT for BASIC FUNCTIONALITY. LW needs to fill the basic needs of users OUT OF THE BOX, not ala carte.

The better they fill the basic needs the better their opportunity grow their user base by word of mouth.

And I am not trying to step on toes and eliminate 3rd party. I have been a proponent of Janus for some time, whereas the majority of LW users are pushing for a native renderpass management system.

I think LW CAD is a great tool. But a person shouldn't have to buy LW CAD to get nicer edges on their text. I will compromise and say the custom edges are something you could buy, but rounded, cove, bevels, etc. should be standard options.

It isn't an easy path. I was conflicted when LW sort of stepped on the toes of the guy making the LW to AE plugin. That was advanced functionality that was worth paying for, and they tried to make it a standard function.

And I love my Bevel++ plugin, but it is a solution for a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

I get what you're saying here, I was thinking more of a proactive approach from the community.

As for ala carte, we can say the same thing for most other packages out there, in fact all major 3D packages offer some sort of studio version that is very high priced. Even LW3DG is going that route to some extent with Neveron Motion & Chronosculpt (not really sure if that counts though).

It also depends on what you consider BASIC FUNCTIONALITY to be, because I think you can agree that, we might both have a difference of opinion of that definition. I am not trying to persuade you one way or the other, as I agree with you to some extent. I am just looking towards viable solutions that we as a community can create for ourselves now. And which we have to a large extent done with 3rd party developers and trainers.

However, I think we are starting to go around in circles a bit, most everything in this discussion is valid from one perspective to another. So what are the solutions? LW3DG, are somewhat responsive to the user needs at least to the best of my knowledge. Could they be better in communication to its users and better update tools that are sorely needed? Yes.

To get what we want though it seems that we do have to go to 3rd party developers, for scripts, plugins and training materials etc...

tonyrizo2003
06-24-2014, 04:02 PM
To add to what Dexter is saying...

most of us have been doing 3D FOR LONG TIME and we take for granted how to do a lot of basic things in the app.
the thing that does seel seats is if an APP can do something RIGHT NOW, WITH EASE for someone in a small production house.
For us, EXPEREINCED USERS it might seem liek toys, but for MOST users (at the entry level) it is a big deal.

Take Text or vector Logos

for most Video houses, they are their BREAD and BUTTER.

I agree with you here, we do need tools that are easy for the novice to just go in and create with very little fumbling.

lightscape
06-25-2014, 04:26 AM
Not type of user. Type of partnership for the future.

NT needs to partner with as many companies out there to get the word out that lightwave is being developed and a CHEAPER alternative to other 3d software.
They did a good job with sketchfab. Now do it with shapeways and get the same functionality like sketchfab and make it a one click solution lw to shapeway print. This is doable and shapeways has this in place now. Partner with turbosquid which is the biggest 3d marketplace. Make sure these companies have a banner saying that lightwave has a one click button to get models working with XYZ service.

Partner with 3d programs to bring the lightwave renderer to them. Franchise the renderer to get more money out of lightwave tech and the plus is people will know lightwave renderer is quite capable and they might actually check lightwave out.


Great post... I would add to that list companies like the makers of UNITY 3D. After all AutoDesk just declared war on them when they bought Bitsquid (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=1191097&highlight=autodesk)

And while this new tech in the ground floor I would establish lines of communication with this company...before AutoDesk buys them.
http://www.nukeygara.com/
The new tech they are developing looks promising.

Looks like lightwave development together with Oculus Rift
http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20140619-908128.html

NT should really join the bandwagon for 3dprint, the most overhyped tech on the net. Contact Shapeway and develop a LWtoShapeway link asap.

robertoortiz
06-25-2014, 06:55 AM
Looks like lightwave development together with Oculus Rift
http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20140619-908128.html

NT should really join the bandwagon for 3dprint, the most overhyped tech on the net. Contact Shapeway and develop a LWtoShapeway link asap.
I think this is great.
New markets are the way to go to expand userbase. Specially markets that have no animosity towards LW.
And I think going after the 3D printing market is a great idea. We are doing at my job a ton of 3d Printing.
My adivice to Nt is to consider releasing a stripped down 3d printing version of the modeler at the STEAM store and sell it between from $50 - $100.

jeric_synergy
06-25-2014, 07:39 AM
We are doing at my job a ton of 3d Printing.
Really? How'd that happen? Video production>>3d printing?

robertoortiz
06-25-2014, 08:32 AM
Really? How'd that happen? Video production>>3d printing?

We are in the educational outreach business for the public.
That means a little bit of everything.

EDITED... After all I never know might read this post...
Anyway here is a sample of the 3d printed models I a proposing for my office.

erikals
06-25-2014, 04:56 PM
Looks like lightwave development together with Oculus Rift
http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20140619-908128.html

this sounds Awesome!! http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

tonyrizo2003
06-26-2014, 01:21 PM
Those are awesome!!