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robertoortiz
06-13-2014, 11:21 AM
Should I do a clothing simulation in native Lightwave?
Hey guys,
I am working on a project from work.
I have been comissioned to start converting some of our 2D characters into 3D,
for things like short animation and 3d Printing.
One of a characters is a female scientist and she is wearing a mini skirt and a Lab coat.
Here is the kicker, I am not sure if I should be sculpring the cloth folds for borth items of clothing.

So what do you guys think?
How would you do this project?

-R
PS Attached is an image of a past project with her. The Robot is in LW and she was done in Adobe Illustrator.

Ryan Roye
06-13-2014, 01:06 PM
In regards to cloth sim, if there are stretches of animation that cut away from the character, unless you are content with saving every cut as a separate .LWS file, I'd avoid native cloth simming in all but the simplest scenarios unless you're willing to add a bunch of extra work to the mix. The reason being is that there is no easy method that I know of that isolates simulations to a particular set of keyframes without calculating the entire duration of your scene with bullet or native LW dynamics. Syflex can do selective computations on ranges of frames, which is one of the main reasons I bought into it.

Greenlaw
06-13-2014, 01:43 PM
There are different ways to do this. If the movement isn't meant to be dramatic, it's not uncommon to simply rig the bottom edge of clothing with bones and just keyframe it. Alternatively, you can use SoftFX softbody dynamics--this method is pretty much hands free and can look convincing in many situations.

But at some point you're probably going to want real dynamics. Bullet works reasonably well and it can be quick if you set it up efficiently. ClothFX works well too but setup is more complicated and it can be slow. Results are different though, so if Bullet doesn't cut it for you, you might want to try ClothFX.

Syflex is currently the fastest and most realistic cloth option for LightWave. Recently there was an incredible sale for Syflex...the sale may have ended but it's still worth looking into. Lightwave development for Syflex had lanquished for several years but it seems like the developer is making a sincere effort to bring the LightWave version up-to-date. Here's a recent thread about Syflex for Lightwave (be sure to read the entire thread because it starts off with some criticism but the tone gradually becomes more positive.):

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?140857-to-buy-or-not-to-buy-syflex-for-Lightwave

Another option is Marvelous Designer. I've seen some very nice work done with this standalone and it's compatible with Lightwave (via MDD.) The thing to be aware of with MD is that the clothing needs to be designed and created within MD to be able to use its dynamics engine. To do this, you import your character into MD and create clothing for it. Then, you apply your Lightwave character animation to the mesh via MDD--the mesh will then animate the clothing through collision. When you have the result you like, you need to export the clothing with an MDD for Lightwave.

So there are many ways to approach this challenge. The method you choose depends on the complexity you seek, and the time and budget you have available for your project.

G.

Davewriter
06-13-2014, 08:04 PM
Another option is Marvelous Designer. I've seen some very nice work done with this standalone and it's compatible with Lightwave (via MDD.) The thing to be aware of with MD is that the clothing needs to be designed and created within MD to be able to use its dynamics engine. To do this, you import your character into MD and create clothing for it. Then, you apply your Lightwave character animation to the mesh via MDD--the mesh will then animate the clothing through collision. When you have the result you like, you need to export the clothing with an MDD for Lightwave.
G.


Wondering... I've not tried MD - but from what I've seen, it seems as if you are "sewing" items together. So if one was pinched for time it would seem this would have a bit of learning curve. I have problems sewing a button back on in real world. Heaven help me in trying to stitch together an exact item with / without a pattern.

Surrealist.
06-14-2014, 12:12 AM
In regards to cloth sim, if there are stretches of animation that cut away from the character, unless you are content with saving every cut as a separate .LWS file, I'd avoid native cloth simming in all but the simplest scenarios unless you're willing to add a bunch of extra work to the mix. The reason being is that there is no easy method that I know of that isolates simulations to a particular set of keyframes without calculating the entire duration of your scene with bullet or native LW dynamics. Syflex can do selective computations on ranges of frames, which is one of the main reasons I bought into it.

In LightWave native you just set the frame range. After you cache the frames you can go back and reset the frame range. That is how I do it if I want a dynamic effect to start of a particular frame. Usefull for setting up certain effects. And in this case for cloth.

Also another technique is to calculate the cloth and save trans and use as the start position.

This way you don't have to worry about preroll

You also have some control over playback with the file in the file tab depending on the mode you use.

As far as cutting on a shot where the first frame has the cloth simulating you simply render that shot from the frame where the cloth has settled and is ready for action in the shot or already in action. Just depends on the situation.

Surrealist.
06-14-2014, 12:22 AM
Should I do a clothing simulation in native Lightwave?
Hey guys,
I am working on a project from work.
I have been comissioned to start converting some of our 2D characters into 3D,
for things like short animation and 3d Printing.
One of a characters is a female scientist and she is wearing a mini skirt and a Lab coat.
Here is the kicker, I am not sure if I should be sculpring the cloth folds for borth items of clothing.

So what do you guys think?
How would you do this project?

-R
PS Attached is an image of a past project with her. The Robot is in LW and she was done in Adobe Illustrator.

Something like this is very easy to do with Native LW cloth. Just a matter of understanding certain elements of the workflow. I have all kinds of info scattered over these boards. If you wanted to start a thread or use this one as sort of a WIP I am happy to chime in with specifics once you get it rolling. First I would try some searches.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?104570-Help-Surrealist-Feel-like-ending-it-all

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?126654-Is-Cloth-simulation-in-LW-still-bad

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?96147-Clothfx-disappearing&highlight=Cloth%20Mesh

Hope this helps

wesleycorgi
06-14-2014, 07:19 AM
Wondering... I've not tried MD - but from what I've seen, it seems as if you are "sewing" items together. So if one was pinched for time it would seem this would have a bit of learning curve. I have problems sewing a button back on in real world. Heaven help me in trying to stitch together an exact item with / without a pattern.

MD is actually pretty easy to set up. When I first got it, I found the setup and simulation effortless. At the time, my ten year old daughter would nudge me off my laptop and design her own creations. The animating part is a bit more involved.

However, I decided to buy into Syflex recently (and was pleasantly surprised that they offered a Mac version a couple of days later) rather than upgrading MD because of their changed pricing model. I still need to "learn up" on Syflex andl use MD where I need something quick and easy (and non-animated) like a cloth on a table.

robertoortiz
06-14-2014, 08:57 AM
Ok keep the ideas coming. I will be using thisthread to mine it for ideas on how to do cool cloth. And lets keep in mind that it is NESTED cloth sim since we are dealing with the skirt and the the Lab coat.

Here is a WIP image of Pat. I am debating if I would build her body "naked" or not, since hte cloth sim would be using low rez temp objects.

What do you guys think?
-R
PS The hair will be sculpted. I want to try this shading style from Stomhawks for this project
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ-ROPHfZ-A

Greenlaw
06-14-2014, 10:55 AM
Wondering... I've not tried MD - but from what I've seen, it seems as if you are "sewing" items together. So if one was pinched for time it would seem this would have a bit of learning curve. I have problems sewing a button back on in real world. Heaven help me in trying to stitch together an exact item with / without a pattern.

Yes, it's not a standard workflow--modeling in MD is exactly like designing patterns and stitching garments because the program is based on software developed for the fashion and garment industry. It's actually not too difficult to learn and use because it's very interactive, but working with it is a completely different skill from traditional 3D modeling.

G.

Surrealist.
06-14-2014, 12:29 PM
Ok keep the ideas coming. I will be using thisthread to mine it for ideas on how to do cool cloth. And lets keep in mind that it is NESTED cloth sim since we are dealing with the skirt and the the Lab coat.

Here is a WIP image of Pat. I am debating if I would build her body "naked" or not, since hte cloth sim would be using low rez temp objects.

What do you guys think?
-R

PS The hair will be sculpted. I want to try this shading style from Stomhawks for this project
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ-ROPHfZ-A

You don't have to modeling anything that will not be shown. Just make a collision object for the body and make that as simple as you can get away with. Don't make hands or feet or any other details that do not contribute to the collision. But do make it the shape you want to see as deforming the cloth.

You can nest the cloth sim in two sessions. Make the undergarment (skirt I presume) simulation first. Then cache it and use it as the collision object for the coat along with anything else that will collide. That is, if you want these things to be dynamic.

And keep in mind you can weight paint certain settings. And your fixed map can be used to pin portions of the cloth to the body and be deformed by bones and not have influence from the cloth.

Greenlaw
06-14-2014, 07:40 PM
FYI, Syflex appears to still be on sale for $200.

G.

Surrealist.
06-14-2014, 10:59 PM
And finally I am not sure why I forgot this, but as limited as it is, the meta link plugin can/should be used in any cloth scenario. The limitation is - as far as I know - there is no way to set the radius distance of the meta link object.

But the basic workflow is you have two cloth objects. One that you simulate, and one that your render.

The one you simulate has the number of polygons needed to collide properly and provide wrinkles and so on. The one that you render has thickness, seams, pockets, buttons and other details.

Here is a quick - and very very basic - test of the concept in LightWave:

122385

Currently searching for the source files on this. And I am happy to share.

Surrealist.
06-21-2014, 11:36 AM
So what's up with this project?

I am sure people would love to see some LW cloth put to use....