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Tony3d
06-13-2014, 10:20 AM
Hi all, I have seen now just how limiting solid type modeling can be. I know I need to branch out into Spline modeling or Subd's. Both I find very confusing, but Subd's moe than Splines. Are there any really good tutorials on the web that start with the basics for each. Everything I see goes right into modeling complex heads, and they lose me quickly. Any suggestions to start this would be great. I have been putting it off for years, but finally realize I have to learn this stuff. Thanks.

jeric_synergy
06-13-2014, 10:33 AM
This series is VERY clear and useful, can't recommend it enough.

http://www.pixelandpoly.com/video.html


Also check out Libert3D.com 's offerings-- they have both anmation procedural AND modeling tutes.

One of the buzz words that will help your searches is "hard surface".

PS: don't worry that the first is a bit dated: Modeler has changed hardly at all.

Surrealist.
06-13-2014, 11:56 AM
My tutorial goes over the very basics of subpatch modeling.

http://www.lightwiki.com/wiki/Fundamentals_of_Subpatch_Modeling

And I agree on the pxelandpooly stuff.

If you need it there are also a lot of guys here that model very well who can help.

Tony3d
06-13-2014, 01:39 PM
Thanks guys. Do you think the Pixel and Poly tutorials are worth buying? Surrealist, just wondering if you have any video's for sale?

jeric_synergy
06-13-2014, 01:57 PM
P&P has a number of free tutes on that page. Why don't you start w/those and see if his style works for you?

I found them to be clear in the extreme.

pinkmouse
06-13-2014, 02:19 PM
Indeed, a very informative source.

Tony3d
06-13-2014, 05:28 PM
Lightwiki has some very good info as well. I can tell learning this type of modeling, is going to take a long time. I have been doing polygonal modeling so long, I'm sure I have developed some pretty bad habits.

Surrealist.
06-14-2014, 08:45 AM
In regards to subD, yeah more like you will just have to unlearn some things. I had a similar experience the other way. I had done so much SubD stuff I started forgetting how to poly model.

Actually I have had some success teaching subD to people I am working with. And there are really only a handful of simple rules to follow. I can teach someone how to do it in a matter of minutes first hand. And they are pretty much off and running. Then I come back to make clarification and correction.

If you start a thread here that might be one way to get some very specific help until it sinks in. On that tutorial of mine it really has all of the basics you will need. I do some very complex modeling at times and I never use more than what is in the first few pages of that tutorial. It is really a very very simple method of modeling. And all of the good guys use these techniques. I simply observed them and tried to codify them. Then Jeffery really put some time and effort into those tuts. I think they are worth the money.

Middle of the page... some of my hard surface stuff:

http://www.akinema.com/#!modeling-and-textures/c1rdx

It is all based on these simple rules. A good idea would be to study these principles and then look at wire frames and try and find the same stuff in other people's work around the web,

jeric_synergy
06-14-2014, 10:51 AM
And, terrible as it is: Nothing replaces sheer practice. Butt-in-seat mouse-pushing.

--I do find that, sometimes "initial conditions" make a HUGE difference: specifically the number of sides a given thing starts out with. Sometimes it's HUGELY easier to have started with 6 or 8 sides than 7 or 9. I bet those tutorials mention that at some point.

Tony3d
06-14-2014, 01:10 PM
In regards to subD, yeah more like you will just have to unlearn some things. I had a similar experience the other way. I had done so much SubD stuff I started forgetting how to poly model.

Actually I have had some success teaching subD to people I am working with. And there are really only a handful of simple rules to follow. I can teach someone how to do it in a matter of minutes first hand. And they are pretty much off and running. Then I come back to make clarification and correction.

If you start a thread here that might be one way to get some very specific help until it sinks in. On that tutorial of mine it really has all of the basics you will need. I do some very complex modeling at times and I never use more than what is in the first few pages of that tutorial. It is really a very very simple method of modeling. And all of the good guys use these techniques. I simply observed them and tried to codify them. Then Jeffery really put some time and effort into those tuts. I think they are worth the money.

Middle of the page... some of my hard surface stuff:

http://www.akinema.com/#!modeling-and-textures/c1rdx

It is all based on these simple rules. A good idea would be to study these principles and then look at wire frames and try and find the same stuff in other people's work around the web,

It seems like subD's are much more time consuming than traditional modeling. It took me a while to make a cube with a hole in it. LOL!

jeric_synergy
06-14-2014, 02:26 PM
Well, it's going to be: it's the virtual world equivalent to finishing a metal object with nice, deburred edges. In both worlds, that's what separates out the artists from the hacks.

pinkmouse
06-14-2014, 03:07 PM
I much prefer the old cabinet making term - "Breaking the arris"

sampei
06-14-2014, 04:15 PM
start with this Lewis car modeling tutorial, a classic that covers both splines and subD:

http://www.foundation3d.com/index.php?categoryid=39&p2_articleid=70

go through all of it a few times (take your time and if you don't get something rinse and repeat) and you will achieve familiarity with the toolset and basic workflows. I also recommend Pixel&Poly's subpatch modeling videos, they explain the heart of the technique clearly and efficiently.
An interesting read by proton in regards to flow:

http://www.pushingpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/files/HDRI%203D%20Issue%208%20-%20Go%20With%20the%20Flow.pdf

Also another good thing you can do to learn is take part in the speed modeling challenges (or make your own) and force yourself to model with subD even when it's not really necessary (like for that cube you posted) which will force you to think in terms of polygon flow/edge loops. Only side effect is you're going to start looking at objects IRL with modeler's eyes...if you know what I mean.
ps.not sure if modeler has an edge slider now, if not get DuniSlide (for edges) and MoveOnEdge (for vertices) which are great to fine tune topology spacing without disrupting the form, especially if the faces aren't orthogonal to the viewports these are a must
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/dtools/
forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47237&d=1181938550

Tony3d
06-14-2014, 11:23 PM
Thanks everyone. I have a lot to look at here. I 've been using Lightwave for many years, and this seems like I'm starting over from scratch! I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions along the way.

Sensei
06-15-2014, 08:12 AM
If you're thinking seriously about spline modeling get EasySpline
http://www.easyspline.com
It will visualize spline patches instantly while working with Modeler (parallel to application).
Similar like this happens with native sub-patches.

Surrealist.
06-15-2014, 08:53 AM
It seems like subD's are much more time consuming than traditional modeling. It took me a while to make a cube with a hole in it. LOL!

Lets see some wires... lol

Hey at least you are moving ahead. Good to start simple.

Tony3d
06-15-2014, 08:58 AM
If you're thinking seriously about spline modeling get EasySpline
http://www.easyspline.com
It will visualize spline patches instantly while working with Modeler (parallel to application).
Similar like this happens with native sub-patches.

I'm on a Desktop Mac Pro. Do they make it for Mac?

Sensei
06-15-2014, 08:59 AM
Yes. EasySpline works with Mac OS X.

spherical
06-15-2014, 04:34 PM
Good to start simple.

Invested some considerable time to go through your subD tutorial last night. Good flow, right amount of prerequisites and, even though the speed is up to the reader, the pace is good. IOW, how much new info is being discussed at a time. Well done. In a couple of places I couldn't grok what was being explained/done but re-reading and eliminating the illogical got me to the right place.

Surrealist.
06-16-2014, 12:03 AM
Cool. Thanks for the review. If you have any questions, please let'em rip.

spherical
06-16-2014, 01:49 AM
Always happy to give credit where credit is due.

Tony3d
06-16-2014, 06:52 AM
Lets see some wires... lol

Hey at least you are moving ahead. Good to start simple.

Took a look at some of the free videos on Jeff's site just to get a feel. Man, I have developed a lot of bad habits over the years! Now, I not only have to learn this new method of modeling, but I also have to lose a lot of bad habits! I’m already feeling a bit overwhelmed with the whole thing. I have been using Lightwave for many years, and because I established bad habits, many tools like “connect" for instance are new to me. Don't know whether or not it's going to be worth all the trouble. It just seems like such a huge leap to me. I modeled this amp about a year ago. took me about 2 days or so. trying to do something like this with sub patches, and obey all the rules would probably set me back weeks! What to do. If I started this as a noob, I would have obey a lot more rules! I feel really stupid!

Tony3d
06-16-2014, 06:54 AM
Lets see some wires... lol

Hey at least you are moving ahead. Good to start simple.

Here is a wireframe. Look good?

Surrealist.
06-16-2014, 07:15 AM
Yeah perfect. An edge or two down the middle along the X axis perpendicular to the hole will help tighten up the front edges. And add a couple of loops to the hole loops near the opening and you have a nice tight looking hard surface model. :-)

jeric_synergy
06-16-2014, 07:46 AM
Richard, I was looking at that tetrahedron on your site: I mean, it's a simple object, but getting a cube nicely subpatched is 'WAYYYYyyyyy easier, due to the nature of the tools (BandSaw, for instance).

Is there a slick way to get the proper edges onto the tetrahedron, or is it just grinding thru?

Tony3d
06-16-2014, 07:57 AM
Yeah perfect. An edge or two down the middle along the X axis perpendicular to the hole will help tighten up the front edges. And add a couple of loops to the hole loops near the opening and you have a nice tight looking hard surface model. :-)

Tried it with multiple holes. I have a lot to learn! How do you make those custom popup mouse menus?

Surrealist.
06-16-2014, 08:02 AM
Richard, I was looking at that tetrahedron on your site: I mean, it's a simple object, but getting a cube nicely subpatched is 'WAYYYYyyyyy easier, due to the nature of the tools (BandSaw, for instance).

Is there a slick way to get the proper edges onto the tetrahedron, or is it just grinding thru?


yeah because it is triangles you have to resort to other methods. There are a few. They all require doing things by hand. I probably just used add edges for part of it and the knife tool, I don't remember.

But just think of the where the cross hatch and loops need to be and you can size up an object very quickly. Some objects require more grind than others.

jeric_synergy
06-16-2014, 08:02 AM
How do you make those custom popup mouse menus?
Mouse menus are edited in the same place regular menus are edited.

Surrealist.
06-16-2014, 08:04 AM
Tried it with multiple holes. I have a lot to learn! How do you make those custom popup mouse menus?


Yeah that is good. Same issue though. Put some slices down the middle so you can tighten up the loops. Also show some wires with and without SubD so it is easy to diagnose more specifically.

Tony3d
06-16-2014, 08:20 AM
Yeah that is good. Same issue though. Put some slices down the middle so you can tighten up the loops. Also show some wires with and without SubD so it is easy to diagnose more specifically.

Tried to add control loops to the outside edges, and ended up with a lot of triangles. Got ride of most of them, but have the remaining on each side. Anyway to fix this?

jeric_synergy
06-16-2014, 08:20 AM
yeah because it is triangles you have to resort to other methods. There are a few. They all require doing things by hand. I probably just used add edges for part of it and the knife tool, I don't remember.
I wound up using SOLID DRILL and a plane in another layer with ROTATE to keep it all equal. Made too many cuts, but the result is..... innnnnterrrressssting, if not right.

Some POLY MERGE will fix it right up, but I may keep the odd one.

Tony3d
06-16-2014, 08:24 AM
Fixed it by merging these two poly's. No I didn't I was in Catmull-clark! Damn. this is hard.

Tony3d
06-16-2014, 08:32 AM
Yeah that is good. Same issue though. Put some slices down the middle so you can tighten up the loops. Also show some wires with and without SubD so it is easy to diagnose more specifically.

When you say "down the middle", I don't quite understand where you mean?

Tony3d
06-16-2014, 09:06 AM
Ok tried another shape from scratch. Still ended up with these triangles. Is it ok to leave them, because I can't see a way to make the quads?

jeric_synergy
06-16-2014, 10:37 AM
What is "OK"? If it looks fine, it's fine.

What is maybe not objectively OK is when a specific configuration of polys bones you down the line, making it hard to extend or join meshes. Or if deformation is compromised by the mesh configuration.

Also, you might as well upload your meshes for us to demo on. For instance, I'd say add another edge loop in #32 above, but I'm not sure how to go about it. But there should probably be one circle that's flush w/the surface of the cube. The new-ish EDGE EDIT can help with that, I'm pretty sure.

JoePoe
06-16-2014, 12:38 PM
Ok tried another shape from scratch. Still ended up with these triangles. Is it ok to leave them, because I can't see a way to make the quads?

Yeah, you're crossed up there.
You really don't need that "horizontal" edge in the front face.

Several things you can do from here.
To keep the mesh simple try this...

Edit: there's an easier way than the image below (where's my head :D). Select those edges and hit dissolve. done. Still looking for a result like the second pic.

122409 should end up looking like this.... 122410

If you want another loop of geometry, multishift those four polys in a bit.

VIDandCGI
06-16-2014, 12:43 PM
RE: the 4 hole model. not sure but is this what you are looking for?

122411

spherical
06-16-2014, 10:02 PM
OK, please help me out here. I get that subD modeling is better for certain shapes that would be otherwise painful to get using solid modeling. The hammer is a good example. I also get that there isn't a magic bullet that takes care of every modeling situation. It depends upon the task at hand. Still, the goal is to always do things with as few polys as possible. So, I took the case of the cube with a hole and built one using solid modeling and one using subD.


Solid modeling, having 4 rounding polys on all edges = 582 polys.
subD modeling = 144 polys. All well and good.
Layout freezes the subD at the level you specify prior to doing a render.
Choosing Subpatch Divisions = 3 in Modeler to match the resolution of the solid modeled box, so that the Phong shading and edge detail look as good, the subD model goes to 1384 polys; more than 2.3x the amount of the solid version.
Choosing Subpatch Divisions = 3 in Layout for the same reason, the subD model goes to 2592 polys; 4.45x the amount of the solid version.

Why is this better?

jeric_synergy
06-16-2014, 10:26 PM
What version are you using? Certainly it's by Object (not Global) in 11.n.

(and: Hammer?? )

spherical
06-16-2014, 10:51 PM
It is per object. Sorry.

The hammer is in Richard's tutorial.

jeric_synergy
06-17-2014, 01:22 AM
So, what's the preferred tool for just dragging out an edge loop FROM an existing edge loop? ( I used to know this....)

sampei
06-17-2014, 07:31 AM
usually if it's just one more edge loop I just select 2 polygons on the target loop, select loop and connect. Then if needed, switch to edge mode and adjust it with DuniSlide.

Surrealist.
06-17-2014, 07:52 AM
Tried to add control loops to the outside edges, and ended up with a lot of triangles. Got ride of most of them, but have the remaining on each side. Anyway to fix this?

Seems like you got triangles in there from not connecting an edge properly. If I am right those pretty much seem to go away when you hit tab.

It is always a good idea to post both wires subD on and off and it is easier to see what is happening.

- - - Updated - - -


I wound up using SOLID DRILL and a plane in another layer with ROTATE to keep it all equal. Made too many cuts, but the result is..... innnnnterrrressssting, if not right.

Some POLY MERGE will fix it right up, but I may keep the odd one.

Another approach is to just hit b and make a bevel. Then come back and draw in your cross hatch corners with the add edges tool. Then merge the trys. One of many ideas that can be used.

Surrealist.
06-17-2014, 07:57 AM
When you say "down the middle", I don't quite understand where you mean?

I mean like what it says on this page:

http://www.lightwiki.com/wiki/Fundamentals_of_Subpatch_Modeling_Part_Two

Just spit with an edge loop down the middle to give less distance for the points to travel making it a tighter mesh.

122419

- - - Updated - - -


RE: the 4 hole model. not sure but is this what you are looking for?

122411

That is the idea. A slightly more dense mesh in the middle will cause the other edges on the outside to hold their shape.

jeric_synergy
06-17-2014, 09:40 AM
usually if it's just one more edge loop I just select 2 polygons on the target loop, select loop and connect. Then if needed, switch to edge mode and adjust it with DuniSlide.

That's pretty fast: I'm more in the "I coulda sworn there was a tool..." mode. :bangwall:

JoePoe
06-17-2014, 09:52 AM
How about the native Edit Edges. Click and drag.

How to use Edit Edges (http://vimeo.com/77353889) by Kuzey

Danner
06-17-2014, 10:14 AM
Subpatch and splines are a must for organic models. For any kind of organic shape they are essencial. Modeling and animating a character without subpatch would be, quite frankly, pretty crazy. But you don't have to use splines for everything, some people kind of do, but I don't recommend it, Use them for what they do best. My objects tend to be a mix of subpatch and polygons. I stay away from splines since they are such a hassle, but for exact, yet somewhat organic shapes, like cars, they are a good tool to have. Embrace this opportunity to learn something new, it's not like you are switching apps completely...

jeric_synergy
06-17-2014, 10:21 AM
How about the native Edit Edges. Click and drag.
How to use Edit Edges (http://vimeo.com/77353889) by Kuzey
For NEW edge loops? I can make a perpendicular EL with r.click, kill with SHIFT, move one segment w/ctrl, but I haven't found a NEW loop ...

Kuzey is just making another perpendicular loop-- it's the same final result, but the UI is different.

JoePoe
06-17-2014, 10:36 AM
Doesn't it just depend on which edge you start on? One edge's perpendicular is another's parallel.

If Kuzey starts on a horizontal edge it would add an edge parallel to the verticals. Right?

jeric_synergy
06-17-2014, 10:41 AM
Indeed, but! I think there's a psychological difference between "dragging out a parallel" and "creating a perpendicular", even though you end up with the same mesh.

And my side-business has taught me how even very small barriers can really affect the perception and feel of a task.

And besides, I coulda sworn we had something that let us drag out parallel edge loops.

JoePoe
06-17-2014, 10:51 AM
OHHH I see. You don't like the tool interface!! I'll give ya that.... it is odd.

I use SwiftEdgeLoop. :)

sampei
06-17-2014, 11:05 AM
That's pretty fast: I'm more in the "I coulda sworn there was a tool..." mode. :bangwall:
hmmm...you're not thinking of bandsaw pro are you? that can be pretty nifty if you store some incremental presets (for instance I have 5% on 1, mirrored 5% on 2, 10 % on 3, mirror 10% on 4, 50% on 5, then for 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 I have uniform 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 cuts) and memorize them. Another useful tool is "cut" (shift-u) which you can use to add an edge loop on a custom defined path with the only requirement of selecting the polygons in the correct order. It also works on triangles.

I stay away from splines since they are such a hassle, but for exact, yet somewhat organic shapes, like cars, they are a good tool to have.
couldn't agree more, they can be good for vehicles, armor suits and anything hard-surface with curves but in my exp. mostly require accurate backdrop or projected reference sets/blueprints. If just one image turns out to be badly placed or doesn't match the others it can be a real pain to fix, especially if you don't notice it immediately.

Tony3d
06-17-2014, 12:16 PM
Just wanted to thank everyone for all the great info. Going thru Pixel Poly's free video's at the moment. I can sure see the advantages of SubD's.

jeric_synergy
06-17-2014, 05:25 PM
Not BandsawPro: what I'm remember is something 'way more interactive, all mousey and stuff.

Of course, I could be misremembering Blender. Ever since everybody standardized on grey as a UI color it's hard to spot the differences...

Snosrap
06-17-2014, 11:04 PM
OK, please help me out here. I get that subD modeling is better for certain shapes that would be otherwise painful to get using solid modeling. The hammer is a good example. I also get that there isn't a magic bullet that takes care of every modeling situation. It depends upon the task at hand. Still, the goal is to always do things with as few polys as possible. So, I took the case of the cube with a hole and built one using solid modeling and one using subD.


Solid modeling, having 4 rounding polys on all edges = 582 polys.
subD modeling = 144 polys. All well and good.
Layout freezes the subD at the level you specify prior to doing a render.
Choosing Subpatch Divisions = 3 in Modeler to match the resolution of the solid modeled box, so that the Phong shading and edge detail look as good, the subD model goes to 1384 polys; more than 2.3x the amount of the solid version.
Choosing Subpatch Divisions = 3 in Layout for the same reason, the subD model goes to 2592 polys; 4.45x the amount of the solid version.

Why is this better?

With subD's you can control resolution at render time. If your model is made with hard polys and the director wants to come in close your screwed.

Danner
06-18-2014, 02:07 AM
Sub D objects are also much easier to edit if you want to adjust something later, you can also use a lower subdivision for copies of your object at a distance. And lastly you can also freeze and optimize a subD object (with qeemloss or PLG_Simplify_mesh for example) and it would only have detail where it needs it.

Snosrap
06-18-2014, 07:10 AM
you can also use a lower subdivision for copies of your object at a distance. Or just use a distance to camera gradient or some such to control the poly level on the fly.

Surrealist.
06-18-2014, 12:53 PM
Not BandsawPro: what I'm remember is something 'way more interactive, all mousey and stuff.

Of course, I could be misremembering Blender. Ever since everybody standardized on grey as a UI color it's hard to spot the differences...

Yep, Blender.

spherical
06-18-2014, 03:57 PM
OK, thanks. I get all that as far as shapes not easily producible in solid modeling, envelopes on rez, organic adjustments later. That's why there is no single modeling method that is better in all circumstances. The core question is, however, a subD model when it's frozen; depending upon Subpatch Divisions chosen and subpatch type, ends up with significantly high poly counts. Low poly count at render is desired (or always has been). When a subD can easily generate 4.5x the number of polys to achieve the same look, is it an equivalent hit on render time and memory consumed as if it were a solid model having that many polys? Frozen == Solid, I would wager, so the answer most likely is "yes". The recurring "positive" that is mentioned is how few polys that there are in a subD to make a shape. But if those few polys get expanded to high levels at render, is it really all that much of a benefit in placing all that weight on how low the poly count is? If the answer to that question is "no", then the low poly count benefit is misleading. This still leaves all of the other benefits mentioned above, but low poly isn't one of them. It just seems that it boils down to: "Look how few polys it takes for me to make this shape, as compared to doing it in a solid model." but that is where that particular benefit stops.

jeric_synergy
06-18-2014, 04:25 PM
Remember that rendering isn't EVERYthing, although for all I know, it may be the majority of, uhhhh, thing.

Since subdivision can be the LAST thing that happens, horrible overhead in deformation and dynamics are avoided when it IS the last thing. I've seen tutes where the program's performance noticeably picked up once "subdivision last" was engaged.

Danner
06-19-2014, 05:43 AM
That is correct spherical. Sub D objects are, at render time, just frozen high rez meshes.

Surrealist.
06-19-2014, 06:36 AM
OK, thanks. I get all that as far as shapes not easily producible in solid modeling, envelopes on rez, organic adjustments later. That's why there is no single modeling method that is better in all circumstances. The core question is, however, a subD model when it's frozen; depending upon Subpatch Divisions chosen and subpatch type, ends up with significantly high poly counts. Low poly count at render is desired (or always has been). When a subD can easily generate 4.5x the number of polys to achieve the same look, is it an equivalent hit on render time and memory consumed as if it were a solid model having that many polys? Frozen == Solid, I would wager, so the answer most likely is "yes". The recurring "positive" that is mentioned is how few polys that there are in a subD to make a shape. But if those few polys get expanded to high levels at render, is it really all that much of a benefit in placing all that weight on how low the poly count is? If the answer to that question is "no", then the low poly count benefit is misleading. This still leaves all of the other benefits mentioned above, but low poly isn't one of them. It just seems that it boils down to: "Look how few polys it takes for me to make this shape, as compared to doing it in a solid model." but that is where that particular benefit stops.

There is actually guite a bit more to it.

Freezing is actually a redundant concern as when you predetermine a subdivision level it is the same math as when you render at a given stop of subdivision. So for what it is worth you can just set that one asside. The larger issues are as follows.

At each stage of the pipeline polygons are the killer. Subds were designed for future pipelines as we have now. But there is a pay off at every stage of the workflow up to the point that you can tessellate the mesh at render time and use this for displacements. And more recently with open SubDiv for example this same technology is producing real-time feedback on low poly cages in a viewport to give animators a more realistic feedback of the final output.

Even without all of this you have an entire production pipeline to consider.

For modeling it is not just - hey cool see what I did with so little. It is about having an efficient workflow through the entire process that starts with modeling on through UV mapping and textures, rigging, weight painting, dynamics and of course animation. Even for still objects this is huge. Objects can be replaced at render time of course as well. And this is still a current valid workflow and has continued to be refined in apps like Maya.

Although there are many ways to make a model, only the one that takes you through the entire pipeline efficiently and with less overhead is the one you choose. That is what SubD was designed for and how it is used. That does not mean they are used in every set up. But that is the idea behind them.

spherical
06-19-2014, 08:23 AM
So, like what I said, low poly count goes by the wayside for the flexibility in modeling organics, deforming, enveloping, etc.

Surrealist.
06-19-2014, 10:15 AM
Actually, low poly count is the way to have flexibility in modeling I think. You don't want high poly count. You want low simple poly count for UV mapping, rigging and so on as well.

And this is preserved in this workflow.Otherwise you'd have higher poly count all the way through.

I think maybe you are assuming that the poly counts go way higher at render time than they would if you were using a frozen mesh and I think just comparing the final result from one to the next that you would not find this that significant. In fact in the attempt to achieve the same render result you might find it goes higher to use polygons alone.

When you also consider the flexibility to adjust the render result without the need to swap a mesh and the other newer uses for this tech, it pretty much renders other ways obsolete in most cases.

Tony3d
06-26-2014, 10:43 AM
Pretty proud of myself. Started modeling my desktop speakers in sub patch. Just started learning this a few days ago, and am already working from scratch. It's not perfect, but not horrible either. Now I have to put in the tweeter. What do you think so far? Not quite sure how to approach the tweeter. Think I need another knife just above the woofer, then select the top poly's group multi shift, and merge poly's right?

hrgiger
06-26-2014, 12:31 PM
Tony, did you see my tutorial here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV7IF14BsAk

Tony3d
06-26-2014, 07:22 PM
Yes, that is in fact where I learned how to do this. The setup of the viewports helped a lot. Will post the tweeter after I finish. The tweeter has an elliptical horn, and round some tweeter. Having trouble with it.

hrgiger
06-26-2014, 09:23 PM
Tony, cutting holes in meshes involve the same procedures to create, just instead of using a constrained round circle, use an ellipse. For cutting a hole in a mesh, here is another tutorial of mine that might be helpful to you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoeNCSNrvJs

Surrealist.
06-26-2014, 11:29 PM
Yeah that's cool.

Good looking speaker by the way.

If you look on this page of my tutorial I go into another approach to cutting holes and other shapes into a flat mesh :

http://www.lightwiki.com/wiki/Fundamentals_of_Subpatch_Modeling_Part_Five

122584

Here for a holes and shapes in a curved mesh:

http://www.lightwiki.com/wiki/Fundamentals_of_Subpatch_Modeling_Part_Four

122585

122586

Obviously there are a lot of approaches to this. And really it does not matter the method you use to get there, but the end result is the idea. And that comes from just understanding the simple polyflow you want to see at the end.

The nice thing about Boolean and other methods of cutting - as Steve's example - is you preserve the positions in the mesh.

What you do from there can go a lot of ways, with the same end results.

djwaterman
06-27-2014, 04:14 AM
Tony3d, you are well on your way and pretty soon you will be flying solo, my only advice that people often overlook, is that if you study the object you are making, break it into the actual component parts, for example your speaker doesn't actually need to be connected to the speaker box, though it's admirable that it is. Breaking the object into parts makes the process easier and more flexible, so the consequence of adding a division isn't always going to run through other areas that don't need it. The other benefit is the model will be more accurate since the original is actually an assembly of manufactured parts anyway.

Kuzey
06-27-2014, 05:16 AM
Untangle can be a really useful tool, its sooooooo hit and miss atm...just needs some tweaking..hey LW3D Group :P

You can you also use PX_Navel to create circles on objects, but that too has it's limitations (only works with up to 4 selected polygons)...again LW3D Group..wink..wink.

Checkout my toaster time lapse for some untangle & heat shrink fun (http://kuzey3d.blogspot.com.tr/2014/05/toaster-time-lapse.html)

Tony3d
06-27-2014, 07:40 AM
Thanks for all the encouragement everyone. I just really started learning this sub patching about 4 or 5 days ago. I have been using Lightwave since version 5 fro about the last 12 years, but never tried sub patching, because I was so comfortable with standard modeling. I can see I have developed many bad modeling habits. I finally saw the benefits, and started watching your wonderful tutorials. Could never have come this far without all the great help! I really screwed up the tweeter, but kinda made it ok. This is what really worries me about using this on real work. It seems so much easier to fix problems with standard modeling techniques. Now my big problem is when I bring it over to Layout, I don't seem to have enough mesh resolution. I have modeler set to 9 which looks great in modeler, but crappy in Layout. What am I doing wrong?

I also forgot to put in the bass port at the bottom of the model, now I'm confused about just how to do that! Really appreciate your help. I have also attached a model I made of a Cary power amp using all my old techniques. Wouldn't even know where to start using sub patching. Can anyone maybe break that down for me? Thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks Kuzey, I'll check that out!

Tony3d
06-27-2014, 07:44 AM
Tony3d, you are well on your way and pretty soon you will be flying solo, my only advice that people often overlook, is that if you study the object you are making, break it into the actual component parts, for example your speaker doesn't actually need to be connected to the speaker box, though it's admirable that it is. Breaking the object into parts makes the process easier and more flexible, so the consequence of adding a division isn't always going to run through other areas that don't need it. The other benefit is the model will be more accurate since the original is actually an assembly of manufactured parts anyway.

I see. I got all caught up in making it one model with all quads! So I would make the speaker, cabinet, and tweeter all as separate sub patched models, or do I break them down into smaller parts than that? Guess the more parts the more flexibility. Right?

hrgiger
06-27-2014, 08:04 AM
Tony, with subpatches you never have to worry about not having enough resolution with your modeling. Simply go into that object properties in Layout and you can change your objects render or display subpatch level and it will increase the resolution. This is why I tend to model mainly in subdivision surfaces.

And btw, your mesh resolution in modeler has nothing to do with what it will look like in Layout. No matter what you set it at in modeler, it always defaults to 3 in Layout by default.

Tony3d
06-27-2014, 08:30 AM
Tony, with subpatches you never have to worry about not having enough resolution with your modeling. Simply go into that object properties in Layout and you can change your objects render or display subpatch level and it will increase the resolution. This is why I tend to model mainly in subdivision surfaces.

And btw, your mesh resolution in modeler has nothing to do with what it will look like in Layout. No matter what you set it at in modeler, it always defaults to 3 in Layout by default.

Thanks! I just figured that out. I will post a rendering soon.

JoePoe
06-27-2014, 08:47 AM
Coming along Tony! Glad to see the commitment to expanding your tool set!!

I just want to point out that basically everything you need to do the Cary Power Amp you've already learned in this one tutorial.
(well, you need to play with the cylinder shape and how it reacts to control loops too. But it's really the same concept as on a box, a loop close to an edge tightens that radius etc...simple stuff.)

On the Cary....the main box with the circular indent in the front..... look familiar? Yup, it's the same basic shape(s) as the speaker. :thumbsup:

Tony3d
06-27-2014, 10:37 AM
Ok Here it is. Not happy with the tweeter bezel. It should look more like a horn, but comes to more of a flat inside. The tweeter is to close to the top, and I forgot to model the bass port. Any suggestions? All in all for my first attempt, at an all quad, sub patched model, I think I did ok. Took me way to long though. Made the cone yellow, just thought it looked cooler.

Surrealist.
06-27-2014, 11:14 AM
Yeah that looks cool.

By the way I second the idea that you should model in parts. Pretty simple just model it the way it was made. I figured that you wanted to work through these issues so I did not mention it. There is always a need to do something more complex that is all one piece. So it is good that you figured it out.

Keep it coming. :-)

jeric_synergy
06-27-2014, 11:41 AM
The LightWIKI subdivision tutorials are excellent!

I was wondering (#awayFromLW) : do we have a "collinear point removal" tool? Or BETTER, "collinear point SELECT", so we can see 'em before we kill 'em.

Are odd-sidedcylinders more problematical than even sided?

Tony3d
06-27-2014, 12:18 PM
The LightWIKI subdivision tutorials are excellent!

I was wondering (#awayFromLW) : do we have a "collinear point removal" tool? Or BETTER, "collinear point SELECT", so we can see 'em before we kill 'em.

Are odd-sidedcylinders more problematical than even sided?

Ok, you totally lost me!

Tony3d
06-27-2014, 12:20 PM
so now that it's pretty much done, how do I go about putting in the bass port I forgot.

Snosrap
06-27-2014, 12:40 PM
Thanks for the videos Steve and Kuzey! I like that Pictrix Navel tool Kuzey - I went out and grabbed that as well.:thumbsup: Have either of you tried MF Circlify by Mental Fish? It seems to do a better job than Untangle.

Things are looking good Tony!

jeric_synergy
06-27-2014, 12:50 PM
Sometime you need to delete extraneous points that are inline w/other points, ie "collinear". I vaguely recall there's a tool for this, probably under REDUCE POINTS.

Surrealist.
06-27-2014, 12:53 PM
Cut it in the same way:

Use any method to first cut out your shape and then give it edge loops around it using any tools such as Add Edges and MultiShift for example.

Similar to this sequence:

122596

122597

122598

122599

Then simply extrude, add more edges to tighten the rim on the inside.

(Of course there are easily half a dozen different ways to do it. But this is one way.)

JoePoe
06-27-2014, 01:00 PM
so now that it's pretty much done, how do I go about putting in the bass port I forgot.

I'm assuming the geometry is pretty straightforward down there.... 122601

So..... add an edge (or move existing edges) to get the approx height.... 122602

select the polys you want to inset..... 122603

multishift in.... 122604

Tighten/loosen as needed. :)

Tony3d
06-27-2014, 01:07 PM
I'm assuming the geometry is pretty straightforward down there.... 122601

So..... add an edge (or move existing edges) to get the approx height.... 122602

select the polys you want to inset..... 122603

multishift in.... 122604

Tighten/loosen as needed. :)

I see. knife it, then Mutishift it in. Right?

JoePoe
06-27-2014, 01:18 PM
Yes Sir! You got it :).
Many ways to add in an edge loop though. Knifing will work fine here.
.... but learn some other ways too, so when a straight cut through everything isn't "available" you have other options.

i.e. BandsawPro or select loop and connect ("l") or quick cut ..... etc.

hrgiger
06-27-2014, 01:23 PM
Good job with your Sub-D's. Don't worry about taking too long. The more you learn about using them, the more it will become second nature and it will get quicker for you.

Kuzey
06-27-2014, 02:49 PM
Thanks for the videos Steve and Kuzey! I like that Pictrix Navel tool Kuzey - I went out and grabbed that as well.:thumbsup: Have either of you tried MF Circlify by Mental Fish? It seems to do a better job than Untangle.

Things are looking good Tony!

MF Circlify deforms the mesh too much...if that was fixed, then it'll be the best thing since slice bread.

:)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwGjjm2aWNo&feature=youtu.be

Snosrap
06-27-2014, 03:28 PM
MF Circlify deforms the mesh too much...if that was fixed, then it'll be the best thing since slice bread.

:)

Yep - it only works well when the selection is head on either in the XY or Z axis.

Tony3d
06-27-2014, 04:15 PM
Ok, Why are the end radius not round enough. Bandsaw Pro doesn't seem to help.

XswampyX
06-27-2014, 04:21 PM
If it was mine, it would be knife....

one through the middle of the slot.
one just above the top of the hole.
one just below the top of the hole.
one just above the bottom of the hole.
and one just below the bottom of the hole.

probiner
06-27-2014, 04:45 PM
I smell SubD Workshop ;)

XswampyX
06-27-2014, 04:53 PM
It would be great!

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/Speaker_SP_zpsc5b97715.jpg (http://s465.photobucket.com/user/xXswampyXx/media/Speaker_SP_zpsc5b97715.jpg.html)

JoePoe
06-27-2014, 08:53 PM
Ha! I actually contemplated mentioning a center cut but opted for keepin' it simple to start off.
Good for you for wanting to tighten it up!!

edit: you also seem to be a bit wide for that opening. You can bring down an edge like swampy, or, multishift in before you multishift in.

Surrealist.
06-28-2014, 01:26 PM
Ok, Why are the end radius not round enough. Bandsaw Pro doesn't seem to help.

I like the approach that I have been posting here. It is pretty simple. You want a shape, make it. Then patch the polygons onto that shape.

For example, you want those round corners perfect, simply put in a nice capsule shape in the mesh lined up right level with the face you want to cut in and do something like this:

122617122618122619122620122621

Basically just connect your polygons, then extrude it in, add loops as needed. Done.

Tony3d
06-28-2014, 05:57 PM
I like the approach that I have been posting here. It is pretty simple. You want a shape, make it. Then patch the polygons onto that shape.

For example, you want those round corners perfect, simply put in a nice capsule shape in the mesh lined up right level with the face you want to cut in and do something like this:

122617122618122619122620122621

Basically just connect your polygons, then extrude it in, add loops as needed. Done.

I really like this approach! I'll try it tomorrow. Thanks!

Surrealist.
06-28-2014, 08:36 PM
Cool good luck with it. And this works with pretty much any shape of course.

Same technique used here:

http://www.lightwiki.com/wiki/Fundamentals_of_Subpatch_Modeling_Part_Four

122626

122627

122628

This is essentially the concept Steve posted a page or so ago.

Works on curved surfaces with Solid Drill or Boolean as well.

122629

122630

This all comes under a general heading of a technique I call Targeting.

It is similar to the concept of either animating pose to pose which means you block out animation at key poses first and then work out the tweens. Or, animating "straight forward" which means you start and the first frame and progressively work your way through.

The same can be said for modeling.

Either first block out the target shapes you want first, and then work the polyflow between them, or you start with a shape and progressively work your way to the end result. Both have advantages and disadvantages. But when you are doing hard surface stuff it is usually best to work with primitive shapes. It is really the only way to get precise modeling in my opinion.

Tony3d
06-30-2014, 05:41 AM
So do I stencil it in, multi shift it back into the box?

Tony3d
06-30-2014, 07:37 AM
I clearly don't understand what I'm doing here. Help Please.

Danner
06-30-2014, 07:41 AM
You have a polygon with more than 4 sides that is all.

pinkmouse
06-30-2014, 07:48 AM
Yup, before you hit the TAB key its always worth checking the stats panel to see if you have any poly's with more than four sides, then you can select them to see where they are and sort them out. I keep it open all the time just for that. You can also check on polys that have only one or two sides as well, they will equally muck SubD's up, but in other strange and curious ways. ;)

Tony3d
06-30-2014, 08:08 AM
But, I don't see where they are. I did look at the stats, and had them highlighted, but I coin all quads! I did fix the tweeter horn though.

jeric_synergy
06-30-2014, 08:08 AM
I clearly don't understand what I'm doing here. Help Please.
No worries, you just got a couple poly5s in there. Highlight them with the STATS window ( >4 thingy ), and deal with them with the technique of your choice.

CROSS posted w/some other people. They REALLY should be in the STATS, I can see them in your wireframe, but you can always just SELECT them as normal. They MIGHT be facing the other way though, so do it in Wireframe. Just click the wonky polygon.

This makes me wonder if you might have an inward-facing shell of polygons: try selecting some polys and if the count is higher than it should be check the normals.

Tony3d
06-30-2014, 08:44 AM
No worries, you just got a couple poly5s in there. Highlight them with the STATS window ( >4 thingy ), and deal with them with the technique of your choice.

CROSS posted w/some other people. They REALLY should be in the STATS, I can see them in your wireframe, but you can always just SELECT them as normal. They MIGHT be facing the other way though, so do it in Wireframe. Just click the wonky polygon.

This makes me wonder if you might have an inward-facing shell of polygons: try selecting some polys and if the count is higher than it should be check the normals.

Ok, let me have a look. Thanks so much for helping. Finding the issues is going to be a whole other ball game. I just fixed the dome on the tweeter as well. Compare to the first one.

Tony3d
06-30-2014, 09:22 AM
Ok, I really hacked this thing up. Looks ok, but now I have this problem. will probably show up in a render on that high gloss surface. How do I fix that?

jeric_synergy
06-30-2014, 09:43 AM
See those 6 pointed stars? Use SPINQUAD to rotate that one edge so that if follows the port around, like a line around a mouth. If I'm figuring this right, the 6stars will change to 5stars and become more manageable.

Look into SPINQUAD and SPINEDGE, they're gonna become your best friends.

Also, don't get down: I find that a lot of this kinda stuff involves chasing render errors around the mesh until you corner and kill them.

Tony3d
06-30-2014, 09:59 AM
Thanks, but I don't understand how to use spin quad.

jeric_synergy
06-30-2014, 10:05 AM
?? Isn't it covered in the manual?

--Just use SPINEDGE, it's more natural.

+++
ED: (#awayFromLW) There's an interesting dearth of online info about SPINQUAD itself, but I think that's basically a reflection of better (by no means perfect) support for Edges in LWM of late.

Remember you are trying to tweak the polyflow. Select the offending edge and hit SPINEDGE a couple times (you'll probably want to assign a hotkey if it doesn't have one).

Any time you see a "star", you want to get in there and kill it. If it can't be eradicated, try at least to reduce the number of intersections. We have to live with 5stars, but 6stars and up can usually be eliminated.

Kuzey
06-30-2014, 11:05 AM
It would be great!

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/Speaker_SP_zpsc5b97715.jpg (http://s465.photobucket.com/user/xXswampyXx/media/Speaker_SP_zpsc5b97715.jpg.html)


Ok, I really hacked this thing up. Looks ok, but now I have this problem. will probably show up in a render on that high gloss surface. How do I fix that?

I would have gone for XswampyX's version..nice simple grid pattern with no funny bits to side track you.

How about adding an edge loop/knife cut above the hole..that might help things?

jeric_synergy
06-30-2014, 11:14 AM
Pour moi, there's always at least one more edge loop needed than I expect.

Kuzey
06-30-2014, 11:22 AM
It would also help to get a screen grab without Sub-D turned on...just to see clearly whats going on :)

Surrealist.
06-30-2014, 11:39 AM
Thanks, but I don't understand how to use spin quad.

Spin quad/edge won't help you in this situation.

What you want to do is basically keep that edge clear of 5 or more sided points.

Do it exactly like this:

122664

122664122665122666

File:

122667

I know this sounds incredibly stupid and simple.

But the best way to model this kind of style - in my opinion - is to first have a clear idea of exactly what polygon flow you need first before you even start pulling out tools. And when you do pull out tools to cut or do whatever you are going to do, you are basically and only sketching out the flow that you already have in mind. If you need to, draw it out on paper first. There are only a handful of polygon configurations you will ever need.

It will come in time. You just have to do it a lot.

Tony3d
06-30-2014, 12:30 PM
Ok, I'm done. First full quad model, I did completely myself. Learn Spin quad, Spin edge, Divide, connect, Bandsaw pro, transform, and untangled, and some tricks with rounder. Honestly, how does the mesh look? I know it's not perfect, but not horrible either. Right? Adjusted the spacing between the tweeter, woofer, bass port, and edge of cabinet. Added some control loops as well. Look at it full size.

jeric_synergy
06-30-2014, 12:37 PM
If it looks fine, it looks fine.

Polyflow: So, in this image I circled in RED edges that I felt could be "spun" to better effect. In green, I circled problematic stars that you might want to eliminate. The reality is that often you wind up chasing them across the mesh, but clever merging and spinning can work wonders.
122672

Surrealist.
06-30-2014, 01:39 PM
Well congrats! You can move on of course.

But there are some very basic problems with the shape. If you care to address them.

This is why I stress primitives in my tutorial.

Basically your entire project here could be done with the polyflow here:

122674

Very simple to keep the edges of the box nice and tight. Like this:

122675

122676

Your model can use some love along the edges still to keep it good and crisp. But it is really just a matter of always having a minimum of 3 edges. Like the box above.

And agree on screen grabs. Show both and un-subpatched version along with the sub'd one in screen shots.

Tony3d
06-30-2014, 03:17 PM
Like this?

Tony3d
06-30-2014, 03:37 PM
Here I tightened up the corners.

Surrealist.
06-30-2014, 11:05 PM
Yes that second one. :)

Perfect. By moving he 5 edge points off of the corner 3 loops that define the edge you can have more control over the edge.

The reason is that when you make a 5 edge point that joint becomes weak:


122689


It is about movement of points during the subdivision discussed here:

http://lightwiki.com/wiki/Fundamentals_of_Subpatch_Modeling_Part_Two

And when a point starts to move from the edge you will get a dip. And for hard surface models you want it good and tight on the corner which is achieved with this configuration:

122690

The same is true around the edges of the speaker. Even if you separate it, you will still have to have a hole there in the box

And for that you need a similar polyfow to this:

122691

where the center shows a perfect circle. This is buffered on the outer edge by a loop. I call this the "editable edge".

http://lightwiki.com/wiki/Fundamentals_of_Subpatch_Modeling_Part_Four


And notice that the center circle (tan) is the only one that is perfect. The outer circle is being pulled at the corners by the edges connected to the weak joints.

I think of this as the Buffer Edge.

And in between the inner circle which is made up of the 3 poly points and the outer Buffer Edge is our Editable Edge - the perfect circle.

This is the edge I would then build from if I wanted to have a perfectly round hole or protruding geometry.



This is the edge you can extrude from or edit predictably.

122692

These are the fundamentals and they apply to pretty much anything you will model even very complex models like in my hard surface gallery:

http://www.akinema.com/#!modeling-and-textures/c1rdx

(Middle of page) where you can see a lot of complex models that are mostly combinations of this simple polyflow.

sampei
07-01-2014, 03:40 AM
If it looks fine, it looks fine.

Polyflow: So, in this image I circled in RED edges that I felt could be "spun" to better effect. In green, I circled problematic stars that you might want to eliminate. The reality is that often you wind up chasing them across the mesh, but clever merging and spinning can work wonders.
122672

+1, it might not matter that much on flat surfaces but 4 point triangles aren't a habit you want to leave unchecked. I'd also address the 6-edge star on the upper half or at least take note of it.

Waves of light
07-01-2014, 04:05 AM
I still refer back to Richard's stuff when doing any sub-d modelling.

http://imgur.com/a/dEWXP - some nice references

and this thread is excellent, as the rest of the group help each other out with polyflow, edge loops and topology for difficult areas of their models:

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56014&page=1

Note: it gets better further on in the above thread...

VIDandCGI
07-01-2014, 04:41 AM
@Tony3d Approach the amp with the techniques you have learned and used from the speaker, just as mentioned above break it down into parts. e.g. switches/dials/main body etc. then place them together.
Im no master but I believe its been mentioned here and in other threads about this and that is the magic number 3, if I remember rightly when performing edges etc if you have one describing the apex of the curve then one either side of this; both of which will control the pinch/roundness of the edge. these then act as borders to the detail in a way almost protecting and isolating it from the influence of other surface factors.
Also as mentioned I believe by Surrealist avoid letting weak areas leak onto these outer edges as they will then deform your edge, so where needed add a border to these to isolate them.

Tony3d
07-01-2014, 07:14 AM
Just wanted to extend my thanks to everyone who has helped me with this. I would never have been this far along so quickly. Inside of one week I modeled a completely sub patched speaker from scratch, something I never thought I could do. I'm having a very hard time figuring out where to start, and how to plan out the shifts, and insets to achieve the look I'm after. it's almost like being a sculptor, which I am not. I find it much easier to model the way I have for all those years, but I know it is the wrong approach. Now for the shock, I turn 60 next month! So learning this stuff is probably a little harder for me than most of you. Still, I will try to stick with it. If I only had someone sitting here showing me where I screw up, I would get this stuff much faster. Anyone live in Orlando? LOL!

Surrealist.
07-01-2014, 08:53 AM
lol

I am right behind you.... :-)

Actually I had to do the same about 10 years ago, coming from modeling technology 10 years before that was quite a shift.

It took me a long long time to figure it out, and like you I had a lot of people who did tutorials and I learned from a lot of people who had been doing it so much longer.

Just keep going steady. You'll make it. I did not have this much help when I started. And my tutorial is nothing more than observations of what others were doing before me.

After a while these patterns will in fact start to make sense. Like learning a new language almost.

Keep working at it and posting.

I love these threads. :-)

Tony3d
07-01-2014, 10:12 AM
lol

I am right behind you.... :-)

Actually I had to do the same about 10 years ago, coming from modeling technology 10 years before that was quite a shift.

It took me a long long time to figure it out, and like you I had a lot of people who did tutorials and I learned from a lot of people who had been doing it so much longer.

Just keep going steady. You'll make it. I did not have this much help when I started. And my tutorial is nothing more than observations of what others were doing before me.

After a while these patterns will in fact start to make sense. Like learning a new language almost.

Keep working at it and posting.

I love these threads. :-)

Thanks. I have tightened up the cabinet edge loops, adjusted the size of the tweeter dome, and bezel, and adjust all specularity, and textures to better match the real product ( except the color of the woofer cone of course). I will post it shortly. Also adjusted the size of the voice coil dust cap on the woofer, and the woofer suspension where it meets the cone.

Tony3d
07-01-2014, 03:12 PM
I'm done! Can't do any better. Need to move on.

scallahan1
07-01-2014, 05:12 PM
Excellent result. Wish they were on my desk. :)

Steve-o

Surrealist.
07-01-2014, 08:49 PM
Nice renders... :thumbsup:

What's next?

Surrealist.
07-01-2014, 09:09 PM
http://imgur.com/a/dEWXP - some nice references

and this thread is excellent, as the rest of the group help each other out with polyflow, edge loops and topology for difficult areas of their models:

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56014&page=1

Note: it gets better further on in the above thread...

Both great references.

Wasn't there a website totally dedicated to subdivision surface modeling some time back?

Anyway here is a great reference page:

http://wiki.polycount.com/SubdivisionSurfaceModeling

It has Jeffery's stepdown guide as well.

I know it was mentioned but here it is again:

http://www.pixelandpoly.com/home.html

Tony3d
07-02-2014, 05:04 AM
Excellent result. Wish they were on my desk. :)

Steve-o

Thanks Steve. I'm pretty happy with it for my first attempt at Subpatching. The speakers really sound great! Their AudioEngine P4's. I power them with a Toppjng Tripath amp, and also have a Dayton subwoofer for the lows. The walls of the speaker are actually 3/4" thick, have Kevlar cones, and a 1" silk done tweeter. The entire system is extremely clean sounding. The whole system cost me $479.00 shipped, and I don't think you can beat the sound quality for the cost. Attached is a photo of the amp construction. The kicker is the amp was only $79.00! The sound quality is superb! I've had it over two years, and it's on 24/7. I'll post the Subwoofer, and outside of the amp later. Next thing I'm getting is the Topping outboard DAC.

Tony3d
07-02-2014, 05:22 AM
Both great references.

Wasn't there a website totally dedicated to subdivision surface modeling some time back?

Anyway here is a great reference page:

http://wiki.polycount.com/SubdivisionSurfaceModeling

It has Jeffery's stepdown guide as well.

I know it was mentioned but here it is again:

http://www.pixelandpoly.com/home.html

Thanks for the additional links. I now have enough material to make me a solid hard surface modeler.

Tony3d
07-02-2014, 06:00 AM
Here's the amp, and subwoofer.

jeric_synergy
07-02-2014, 09:30 AM
Here's the amp, and subwoofer.
Wow! Your modeling has REALLY progressed!!! ;)

Tony3d
07-02-2014, 10:18 AM
Wow! Your modeling has REALLY progressed!!! ;)

Photos. LOL!

jeric_synergy
07-03-2014, 09:39 PM
Saw something like this on one of the tutorial sites, decided to just create it.

Some ugly stuff in there, but hey, it's doable, and pretty arbitrary: I just Boolean: Unioned the disks together.

122778

jeric_synergy
07-04-2014, 03:04 AM
Tony, you might find the PDF file here handy in your subd modeling:

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?142437-quot-Reverse-Untangle-quot-exists-Meanwhile-there-s-this-reference-table

Waves of light
07-04-2014, 03:18 AM
I'm done! Can't do any better. Need to move on.

Looks good Tony! On with the next one then?


Both great references.

Wasn't there a website totally dedicated to subdivision surface modeling some time back?

Anyway here is a great reference page:

http://wiki.polycount.com/SubdivisionSurfaceModeling

It has Jeffery's stepdown guide as well.

I know it was mentioned but here it is again:

http://www.pixelandpoly.com/home.html

Are you thinking of Got Wires? That site, for some reason, was made private by the owner and a lot of great reference material went with it. I think William Vaughan made an attempt to do something similar: http://pushingpoints.com/v2/got-wires/

Saw something like this on one of the tutorial sites, decided to just create it.

Some ugly stuff in there, but hey, it's doable, and pretty arbitrary: I just Boolean: Unioned the disks together.

122778

Looks ok to me and should render well.


One tool that people forget about when wanting to create holes in sub-d geometry is 'quick cuts'. You can select polys or edges and then set up your own cuts in the Edit Modeler Tools menu.

Surrealist.
07-04-2014, 05:17 AM
Saw something like this on one of the tutorial sites, decided to just create it.

Some ugly stuff in there, but hey, it's doable, and pretty arbitrary: I just Boolean: Unioned the disks together.

122778

Nice. :)

scallahan1
07-04-2014, 06:51 AM
Tony,

That's a nice, colorful circuit board. Looks pretty high quality. That might make a good Lightwave project down the road. :)

Steve-o