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tumblemonster
11-22-2003, 11:13 PM
I know we've all been through this before, but...

Has anyone heard of any progress in getting an HDRI editor to the mac? Shake can handle the images, Lightwave can render them, but there isn't a package available to create them. I had heard the new Photoshop CS was supposed to add this functionality... They did do nonsquare pixel support, which is good.

Anyone heard anything?

-tm

ingo
11-23-2003, 04:11 AM
Since i don't use Photoshop i can't comment about that, but the only software i think is available on the Mac is Photosphere from Anyhere Software, aka Greg Ward. I use it only to browse through my hdr images but it should be able to actually make hdr images; at least in the file menu there is a point called "make hdr" ;)

Sorry, i have no website available, just do a quick search with altavista, that should help.

HTH

ingo

mlinde
11-23-2003, 12:07 PM
Last I heard, there was a GIMP editor (maybe film gimp) that allowed HDRI editing. Whatever it is, it's a unix app with an X-windows GUI, so you need the Apple X-windows environment.
Apple X11 (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/)

Beamtracer
11-23-2003, 12:43 PM
The "gimp" editor is called Cinepaint. It was formally called Filmgimp, but renamed to avoid confusion with Gimp.

It's a floating point paint program, but not a dedicated HDRI creating program, so I don't know how you'll go using it for that purpose.

It's a pain in the butt to install, but there's a thread about installation earlier in this Mac forum if you're interested. Apparently they're working on a native Mac GUI version.

Photoshop CS allows you to edit 16 bit-per-channel images to some degree, but not 32 bit-per-channel images.

tumblemonster
11-23-2003, 03:32 PM
Neato: http://www.anyhere.com/

I'll download it tonight and see what I can do!

-tm

drclare
11-23-2003, 04:28 PM
Cinepaint can also only do 16bit per channel images

archiea
11-23-2003, 06:09 PM
well, heh heh...

This is probably what you are looking for...

http://www.idruna.com/photogenicshdr.html

Problem is that its for the PC:(

So you can get a decent PC for $1000 to run Photogenics, and finally be able to play games like Battlefield 1942 and Microsoft simulator (like the way I justified it... getting a PC for battlefield that is.. ;D )

or

You can contact Idruna and petition a mac version...

[email protected]

I have spoken to them in the past, and they mention the possibility of an Xwindows version, based on the linux port, that would run on Xwindows on the mac. All it takes is the demand for it. It ain't aqua, but its not Cinepaint either, I mean this is HDR editing for real, so you decide how much you want to pay for it....

Type away folks...

drclare
11-23-2003, 06:44 PM
Why is it that photoshp still doesn't support HDR?! I mean, it is the top photo-editing tool on the market right? They should have supported it in version 7, but now CS is out and still no support!! What gives with Adobe?!?!

archiea
11-23-2003, 07:18 PM
thats because Photoshop is for the print world, not the 3D texture mapping world

Think how long it took to get painting, better 16 bit support and RAW camera support.... in fact the latter two was because of the Digital camera. I doubt texture/environment maps are even on adobe's radar...

Chances are of you seeing HDRI editing in Bodypaint before you see in Photoshop!!!!:(

Beamtracer
11-23-2003, 07:30 PM
Adobe doesn't give you much with Photoshop, considering the cost multiplied by the number of units they must sell. Adobe must be raking in the money.

They didn't even support digital cameras very well. Photoshop CS has only just been released, and it's the first to give 16-bit-per-channel support and 'RAW' formats from cameras.

Yeah, yeah, the previous version of Photoshop could display a 16bpc image but that was all. Layers did not work. Filters did not work. It was useless. Apple's OSX can display a 16bpc PSD or TIFF file from the Finder!!!

Also, the use of RAW images from digital cameras is essential if the photographer is going to approach the quality of film. It's truly amazing that support for this has only just been introduced into Photoshop.

Lightwave has a 32-bit-per-channel renderer, yet 16bpc is the best that Photoshop can support. If you think that Adobe should introduce 32bpc as a feature, here's the URL of their Feature Request page:
http://www.adobe.com/support/feature.html
Go on, type them a quick message and let them know you want this feature!

drclare
11-23-2003, 09:07 PM
And wouldn't the print world still benefit from 32bpc support, i mean, more color info creates better images, right?

Beamtracer
11-23-2003, 10:54 PM
No the print world probably wouldn't benefit from 32bpc image output from Photoshop. Not yet, anyway. This is why Adobe probably won't do it, as they are completely print-centric.

However, I think a few years down the track one of the Japanese camera manufactures will create a digital camera image sensor that'll have automatic 32bpc output.

Digital imagery is in its infancy. It is already rivaling film, and at some time in the future it'll surpass film in resolution and dynamic range.

Most "snappy" home style digital cameras output in 8bpc JPEG format images. There are several SLR style cameras (Canon D10 and others) that already output 16bpc images (RAW format).

As image sensors get better, and manufacturers move from CCD sensors to CMOS sensors I think we'll eventually see a 32bpc pro camera. That would solve all our problems!

drclare
11-24-2003, 02:42 AM
Although, you do know that digital will never technically surpass film in resolution and dynamic range right?

js33
11-24-2003, 04:26 AM
Well that depneds on if your talking about digital still photography or video?

I think as Beam said that digital still photography has already surpassed film at the highend. Today's highend will be tomorrow's average tech.

Now as for video it is approaching film on the highend but will take more advanced CCDs to get the same dynamic range as motion picture film. It will get there eventually. There are already highend 24P HDTV video cams replacing film cams for TV shows and films.

Cheers,
JS

Beamtracer
11-24-2003, 12:27 PM
Those 24p HDTV video cameras are much better than NTSC/PAL cameras, but fall way short of film cameras. If you saw the previous episode of Star Wars you may have noticed that the digitally acquired image quality was not as good regular film.

That's not to say that electronic images have to be worse than film. Most big budget film projects get transferred to an electronic stage (not HDTV) and then get scanned back onto film for display at the cinema. Nobody complains about any drop in quality. Spiderman, Matrix, Lord Of The Rings had excellent image quality.

CDD image sensors will one day disappear and be replaced by CMOS sensors. The Canon digital SLRs are already using the first CMOS chips. Basically they use the same technology that is used to make silicon chips and computer processors to etch the light receptors onto the front of the sensor.

At around 16 megapixels a digital camera exceeds the resolution of 35mm film, though I guess you could argue that wide format film cameras may still be higher-res than digital.

I think that digital can be improved in the area of dynamic range, the number of steps or graduations between light and dark. Cameras that export 16bpc RAW data can match film in this area.

It's only a matter of time that someone manufactures a 32bpc digital camera that goes way beyond the quality obtainable with film. This will be a 3D artist's dream!

renrique
11-24-2003, 05:36 PM
Photoshop CS supports non square pixels and 16 bit per channel images

riki
11-25-2003, 05:17 AM
I'm not exactly sure what this is, but it does mention somethng to do with scanning images and HDR. Maybe someone can explain

SilverFast HDR

ps see http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/silverfasthdr.html

ingo
11-25-2003, 08:03 AM
>>Maybe someone can explain

Its simply an excellent scansoftware that comes with many scanners.

ackees
11-26-2003, 04:40 AM
Hope this helps:
http://www.radiance-online.org/radiance-workshop1/cd/Ward/HDRbrowser/

I cannot remember where the link is for the download, but dig around,
It is now called Photosphere.
good luck

Barnaby Gunning
11-26-2003, 07:05 AM
this what you were looking for ?

http://www.anyhere.com/gward/pickup/hdrgen_macosx.tar.gz

:)

tumblemonster
11-28-2003, 01:30 PM
Thanks for all the ideas. I've tried Photosphere. It's mostly a catalogging system like iPhoto. It can scan a view HDR files, and has an option ot make HDR files from standard files, but whenever I try, it give an error.

I'll try some of the other stuff above as well.

-tm

Scazzino
12-09-2005, 11:59 AM
Photoshop CS 2 on the Mac can do it... and so can Photosphere (http://www.anyhere.com/gward/pickup/photosphere.tar.gz) by Greg Ward (http://www.anyhere.com/gward/index.html)

I did a quick test in both and was able to create a simple HDRI from a set of exposures.

:thumbsup:

-MikeS

BazC
12-10-2005, 03:55 AM
Yes they will both create HDRIs from a series of images but neither will allow editing of an existing HDRI.

For instance you can't use filters on an HDRI so you can't convert a lightprobe image to a spherical map with the Polar coordinates filter. You can't alter the brightness of a "hot spot" to create more dramatic lighting when using the HDRI for image based lighting.

There are apps for Windows that allow this type of editing but I don't know of any Mac ones :(

toby
12-10-2005, 10:58 AM
uh... well, if you're really desparate, Nuke can do it, at a mere $4995 :D
http://www.cgfocus.com/NewsDetails.cfm?NewsID=1916

N&B
12-13-2005, 01:59 AM
Hello, this is my first post on this forum I hope it will be helpful: Photomatix Pro can create HDR images as well as tone mapping. I'm not sure about the advanced editing functions though. http://www.hdrsoft.com/examples.html

archiea
12-13-2005, 02:35 AM
uh... well, if you're really desparate, Nuke can do it, at a mere $4995 :D
http://www.cgfocus.com/NewsDetails.cfm?NewsID=1916

wow... wow...WOW...

Finally!!!!

I remember during my sentence..er..stint...er..employment at DD seeing nuke on a powerbook, but lamenting that its release fell victim to "niche" syndrome.. Perhaos the Intel mac situation made this irrelevant..or perhaps its just that Nuke is "ready" just now for mac...

Who cares...... its out!! WooHoo!!!

Yeah it does seem like a whopper of a price... but considering its functionality, its surpasses Shake in some catagories.. Savy C++ programmers can really tap into this app. Kudos to the D2 software team. I hope some hooks for LW are in the future... I;d say native open EXR support in LW to export out multple passes in float to a channel rich openEXR file that can elegantly be opened in nuke. Then imagine a node in Nuke that would allow you to adjust the different surface attributes.. specularity, reflection, diffusion, base on your outputted channels from LW. Think of it as an advanced version of that Surpass plug in. ..and since the data is in float, your ability to adjust your surface attributes in 2D caould be done with relative freedom without the quantizing of integer 16bit files.

Man this is so kewl, I may need a cigarette!!!! :heart:

BazC
12-13-2005, 05:58 AM
I just discovered Cinepaint which will apparently allow editing of 32bit images. I'm downloading now.

Cinepaint (http://cinepaint.movieeditor.com/)

It's obviously intended for movie/animation work but will presumably work with stills too. - Baz