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rednova
06-01-2014, 05:14 PM
Hi:

When does lightwave 12 come out ?
And, how long does it take between a new version of lightwave to the next one ?
How long for each new version of lightwave to come out ?
Thanks !!!

ernpchan
06-01-2014, 05:45 PM
Hi:

When does lightwave 12 come out ?

When it's ready.

zapper1998
06-01-2014, 06:41 PM
Did they forget to turn on the Oven again..... I hate it when they forget to to on the oven..

:)

jeric_synergy
06-01-2014, 06:44 PM
Just before LW13.

Greenlaw
06-01-2014, 07:24 PM
Not that this means anything but LightWave 9 came out in 2006, 10 in 2010, and 11 in 2012. If there's a pattern here, Lightwave 12 came out last year. :)

Kidding aside, I would be surprised to see 12 released anytime soon--it's more likely that we'll get a few more updates to 11 first, especially since there are features that need to be fixed.

If we're lucky, we might get some kind of preview of 12 during Siggraph later this year, but I'm totally running in speculation mode right now.

Short answer: nobody knows except the devs and they ain't talkin'.

G.

jeric_synergy
06-01-2014, 07:39 PM
Short answer: nobody knows except the devs and they ain't talkin'.
G.
Which is GOOD: I'm not ready to put up with all the stupidity that will come flooding out when they announce any pending action.

Hell, I haven't even LOOKED at Genoma yet...

prometheus
06-02-2014, 06:36 AM
Which is GOOD: I'm not ready to put up with all the stupidity that will come flooding out when they announce any pending action.

Hell, I haven't even LOOKED at Genoma yet...

In my viewpoint...I rather see free updates/enhancements to 11.7 or something like that..and hope fore a really jam packed features of new tools and enhancements in lw12, but not for them to rush in to it.

Genoma, well..looked at it and used it a little, but not enough I guess, for me it isnīt really rocking the boat in terms of what I though it should do and behave etc.
Intancing is probably the tool I have had the most interest in, and bullet maybe...flocking, genoma,fiberfx...could and should be more, they can enhance those along with hypervoxels, some particle and bullet interaction along with particle boost of handling large amounts and some brush sculpting in layout and modeler within the lw 11 cycle.

Michael

jeric_synergy
06-02-2014, 07:11 AM
While I'm hoping for many great things in 12, a lot of it under the hood and behind the scenes, there's plenty of bugs to quash and little tweeks to get right before then.

I guess in general a bigger feeling of CONSISTENCY would be my greatest hope. It's not like I've exhausted the features of LW11.

Snosrap
06-02-2014, 09:23 PM
Instances responding to dynamics could be a great 11.7 addition.

Snosrap
06-02-2014, 09:30 PM
12 must be the new rebuilt LW from scratch - hence the super long dev time.

jeric_synergy
06-02-2014, 09:37 PM
Instances responding to dynamics could be a great 11.7 addition.
Of course you can constrain them to the points in an object that IS responding to dynamics, but I think you mean something else, like "Bullet with Instancing".

Snosrap
06-02-2014, 10:00 PM
but I think you mean something else, like "Bullet with Instancing". Yep!

jeric_synergy
06-02-2014, 11:16 PM
Man, that is gonna run ssssssssssssllllllllllllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww wwwwww.....

realgray
06-02-2014, 11:53 PM
12 must be the new rebuilt LW from scratch - hence the super long dev time.

This is my theory. Or at least a step towards unification of the two programs.

prometheus
06-03-2014, 07:10 AM
Yeah bullet with instances and also particle intergration with bullet would be nice, and that is only to catch up with modo, same goes for hypervoxels wich needs some overhaul with the blending mode, and geometry volumetrics.
That is three areas needed to catch up and what impresses me about modo right now.

My suggestion for some new inventive stuff..just like out of thin air and without a clue on if it is possible:) Instancing with reference to morphed or stored geometry in a specific list or something, meaning it sort of will use several morphs from one object and instance that in volumetric form, thus you could actually have characters looking differently but still instanced and not cloned geometry, same goes for deformed rocks, would be uberawesome and I havenīt seen anything like it anyware, maybe because it is impossible.
And Iīm quite sure anything like that wonīt show up before lw 12, and most likely not after either...just wanted to throw out brain storming ideas of new innovations, just like that:)

Michael

sukardi
06-03-2014, 08:17 AM
This is all academic but rather than new features, these are what I wish to get for LW12

1. New engine for modeler that can handle more polygons than the the current one. Multithreading would be nice.
2. Unified architecture that let you access and manipulate vertex info in Layout (even if it is just basic sculpting and vertex transform tools)
3. Unified and standardised node workflow

Not holding my breath though...

Thomas Leitner
06-03-2014, 08:57 AM
....My suggestion for some new inventive stuff..just like out of thin air and without a clue on if it is possible:) Instancing with reference to morphed or stored geometry in a specific list or something, meaning it sort of will use several morphs from one object and instance that in volumetric form, thus you could actually have characters looking differently but still instanced and not cloned geometry, same goes for deformed rocks, would be uberawesome and I havenīt seen anything like it anyware, maybe because it is impossible....

Hi Michael,
in the meantime, you can use DP instance for such things:

122164

Here I stored the different morphs as single frames of a DPM file.
But any volumetric based instancing renders slower than the native one (meaningless for small scenes).

ciao
Thomas

p.s.: but I donīt see a big difference to use varied morphs instead of varied objects with the native instancer.

prometheus
06-03-2014, 09:34 AM
Hi Michael,
in the meantime, you can use DP instance for such things:

122164

Here I stored the different morphs as single frames of a DPM file.
But any volumetric based instancing renders slower than the native one (meaningless for small scenes).

ciao
Thomas

p.s.: but I donīt see a big difference to use varied morphs instead of varied objects with the native instancer.

Hi Thomas, will have to take a look in to that.
And the difference, well if you have to used varied object, that means additional geometry in the scene memory for each variation of multi objects, wich in such case..you are back to square one, I just thought if there was a way to
use only one object in layout store memory, but fetching the morph vectors from that objects morphs and in layout apply it as volumetric variations based upon that objects morph ..or something like that, may not be possible perhaps.

I also was going completly wacko in my brains ..thinking if there was a way to extract vector data based upon a morph between the base object and the morph end, and thus fetching and applying interpolated steps in between
without you actually having to select any specific morph, itīs sort of an idea of a gradient interpolation from where an instancer would catch the morphs inbetween so to speak.

prometheus
06-03-2014, 10:05 AM
This is all academic but rather than new features, these are what I wish to get for LW12

2. Unified architecture that let you access and manipulate vertex info in Layout (even if it is just basic sculpting and vertex transform tools)


Not holding my breath though...

There are workarounds...
1.use clothfx or soft dynamics, then edit with the edit node tool, set bruh size apply on all and set the frame range to cover first to end frame:) then move and drag sculpt..also works like a poor mans chronosculpt to deform in time.
2. Pay extra for the sculpt features, get chronosculpt:)

Thomas Leitner
06-03-2014, 10:12 AM
.... I just thought if there was a way to use only one object in layout store memory, but fetching the morph vectors from that objects morphs and in layout apply it as volumetric variations based upon that objects morph ..or something like that, may not be possible perhaps....

Thatīs exactly what I did (with the workaround, to use a DPM file to store the morphs). There is only one object in the scene (the cube) with 2 additional morphs (ball and pyramide).
I donīt know if this setup saves memory.

ciao
Thomas

prometheus
06-03-2014, 11:54 AM
Thatīs exactly what I did (with the workaround, to use a DPM file to store the morphs). There is only one object in the scene (the cube) with 2 additional morphs (ball and pyramide).
I donīt know if this setup saves memory.

ciao
Thomas

Great..interesting, will have to take a look though itīs not priority now, this seem to be a case of it working sort of like what I think it should work like, if it now really helps avoiding the loading of to much geometry and only impacts the rendertime when it performs the volumetric instance that is.

Also...this is based on predefined morphs in the dpm file as you said, I would like to see a way of new tech being implemented that can extract out any interpolation between, right now it only takes the "final morph" and the base object..but it sure would be nice if it could get acess to values as they would have been in a timeline morph so to speak, tricky perhaps since the morphs and vertex deformations are static until you perform them in a timeline, would require the new tech to calculate and simulate such time deformation/interpolation between the base object and the final morph and from there by telling the instancer to pick any interpolation point between, and perhaps telling it to not repeat that specific point, if possible we could maybe get unique figures that arenīt the same in shape.

hrgiger
06-03-2014, 02:01 PM
Well I hope no one is getting their hopes up for LW12 to be unified or to be a whole new application. From everything I've gathered, LW12 will be neither of those things. Not to say that's a bad thing, but integrating the programs will take time if they're doing it in a way to not break everything else in the process.

And people think LW11 has been going on for a long time but it really hasn't. If we were Modo, that would be true but we aren't. We get free feature updates, they don't. Every year we've gotten a free release of the software starting with LW11, then 11.5, then 11.6 and probably in a few more months, 11.7. I would look for info about LW12 to be for next year.

Thomas Leitner
06-04-2014, 02:23 AM
....I would like to see a way of new tech being implemented that can extract out any interpolation between, right now it only takes the "final morph" and the base object..but it sure would be nice if it could get acess to values as they would have been in a timeline morph so to speak, tricky perhaps since the morphs and vertex deformations are static until you perform them in a timeline, would require the new tech to calculate and simulate such time deformation/interpolation between the base object and the final morph and from there by telling the instancer to pick any interpolation point between, and perhaps telling it to not repeat that specific point, if possible we could maybe get unique figures that arenīt the same in shape.

Here is an example where I distribute the inbetweens of the morph (here itīs only cube to ball) to the instances.

122169

This works with all kind of deformations (displacement, bones...), since I "bake" the deformation to the DPM file. But of course, there is a fixed number of inbetweens based on the number of frames in the DPM file.

ciao
Thomas

jeric_synergy
06-04-2014, 08:53 AM
Another acronym to learn, 'DPM', it's a new one on me. :cry:

Thomas Leitner
06-04-2014, 10:36 AM
Another acronym to learn, 'DPM', it's a new one on me. :cry:
Hi,
DPM is Denis Pontonniers motion data file format, that he use for his volumetric instance plugin "DP Instance". Itīs like Lightwaves MDD files.

http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

You animate your object, scan the motion and use it with DP Instance.

ciao
Thomas

jeric_synergy
06-04-2014, 10:39 AM
Thanks Thomas!

Are there any features that DPM files have over MDD files?

Thomas Leitner
06-04-2014, 11:01 AM
.....Are there any features that DPM files have over MDD files?

No. But you canīt use MDD with DP Instance, only DPMs.

ciao
Thomas

Greenlaw
06-04-2014, 11:58 AM
Another acronym to learn, 'DPM', it's a new one on me. :cry:

Just for historical grins and giggles, here's one more: 'HDD'--this was the version of MDD created for HD Instance. At the time, the developer said MDD lacked certain data he needed for his instancing plug-in, and HDD allowed him to motion blur his instances as well as randomize and re-time animations. HD Instance and the HDD format was pretty cool at the time, and they still have a few features I wish we had in the native Instancer. (A couple of alignment modes and the ability to easily randomize the start point of looping animations immediately come to mind. HD Instance did not save motion vectors though, which I usually need in compositing.)

As Thomas points out, DP continues to develop and extend the features of his instancing plug-in quite a bit. I've been using the native Instancer for the past couple of years but after seeing some of Thomas' tips, I think I'm going to start using both instancing tools. :)

G.

JohnMarchant
06-04-2014, 12:43 PM
My money would be on Siggy 2015

Snosrap
06-05-2014, 06:58 AM
My money would be on Siggy 2015 Yeah, could be. They need to get the backbone of LW redone so they can come out with improvments at a faster pace and don't have to spend half their development time fixing things that got broke when they added something new, so yes, Siggy 15 makes sense. Hopefully thats where they are at or at the very least replacing Modeler with all new code.

JohnMarchant
06-06-2014, 03:15 AM
Im hoping Hydra, Modeler improvements, HV and Particles update and more consolidation and update of our new tools, Instances,Flocking,Python,Bullet. Im not fussed about new tools i want what we have to be as fast as possible and rock solid as possible.

kfinla
06-06-2014, 07:16 AM
I'll be more optimistic and say LW 12 in Jan 2015 with a sneak peak at sigg this year. I'm always interested in animation/rigging updates, but I think a big HV overhaul and groundwork for a fluid simulator would be very welcome.

Andy Webb
06-06-2014, 07:57 AM
After reading this thread, I have an awful feeling there's going to be a lot of disappointed wavers over the next 12 months :(

But I'm more than happy to be proved wrong :D

Emmanuel
06-06-2014, 11:25 AM
12 should be to 11.x what 6 was to 5.5. Man, those were the days.When I first saw previews of 6, I was totally blown away.I mean...RADIOSITY !?

Greenlaw
06-06-2014, 11:34 AM
...Im not fussed about new tools i want what we have to be as fast as possible and rock solid as possible.

I hear ya. I'm grateful for the tools in Lightwave now because they get me through job after job, all year long...but I still feel like I need rely on a bunch of workarounds and cheats to get there. It really wouldn't take a lot to make Lightwave much more efficient for the work I do.

For now, I would much rather see improvements and fixes made to the existing features and UI than a bunch of brand new features. Though it might seem 'underwhelming' to some users, that's what I would really like to see presented at Siggraph this year.

And if they conclude with a teaser for 12, I won't complain. :p

G.

JohnMarchant
06-06-2014, 11:43 AM
I hear ya. I'm grateful for the tools in Lightwave now because they get me through job after job, all year long...but I still feel like I need rely on a bunch of workarounds and cheats to get there. It really wouldn't take a lot to make Lightwave much more efficient for the work I do.

For now, I would much rather see improvements and fixes made to the existing features and UI than a bunch of brand new features. Though it might seem 'underwhelming' to some users, that's what I would really like to see presented at Siggraph this year.

And if they conclude with a teaser for 12, I won't complain. :p

G.

Hear you to, i have a feeling that in the 11 cycle we have got allot of new tools but reliability seems to have taken a hit, 11.6.3 definitely seems more crashy to me. FFX, well how long are we going to wait for this to be sorted out, crashes far to much. Yes, no new tools fix and or enhance what we have, sort modeler out as its been neglected for far to long, do all these and i will be happy.

prometheus
06-06-2014, 11:48 AM
Hear you to, i have a feeling that in the 11 cycle we have got allot of new tools but reliability seems to have taken a hit, 11.6.3 definitely seems more crashy to me. FFX, well how long are we going to wait for this to be sorted out, crashes far to much. Yes, no new tools fix and or enhance what we have, sort modeler out as its been neglected for far to long, do all these and i will be happy.


Except for the workflow of using modeler tools to style/edit hair in conjunction with layout fiberfx which is very crashy as you probably know too, I have also found it behaving weirdly depending on how you start up modeler or layout, sometimes I just canīt get fiberfx activated and show at all, while after rebooting a couple of times,it suddenly works for some reason.

Michael

JohnMarchant
06-06-2014, 12:32 PM
Agreed prometheus, i get this as a general feeling about LW, not any one tool, although it happens often in some tools more than others. It seems that it has generally become more unstable and dare i say it twitchy and sensitive. Whilst not technical terms its the feeling i get. Its not surprising when so many new tools have been introduced, that there will be teething problems, this is what i want sorted out before 12 begins, i don't care if it takes 2 years before 12 comes out, stability and bug squashing needs to be the name of the game for as long as it needs to be.

I will put up with modeler and its draw backs for as long as it takes to get this done, but i do hope modeler receives some well deserved TLC in 12, as its showing its age.

sadkkf
06-06-2014, 12:55 PM
Instances responding to dynamics could be a great 11.7 addition.

+1

brent3d
06-06-2014, 02:26 PM
Well I hope no one is getting their hopes up for LW12 to be unified or to be a whole new application. From everything I've gathered, LW12 will be neither of those things. Not to say that's a bad thing, but integrating the programs will take time if they're doing it in a way to not break everything else in the process.

And people think LW11 has been going on for a long time but it really hasn't. If we were Modo, that would be true but we aren't. We get free feature updates, they don't. Every year we've gotten a free release of the software starting with LW11, then 11.5, then 11.6 and probably in a few more months, 11.7. I would look for info about LW12 to be for next year.

Totally agree with you here hrgiger, free updates are a excellent.

brent3d
06-06-2014, 02:29 PM
12 should be to 11.x what 6 was to 5.5. Man, those were the days.When I first saw previews of 6, I was totally blown away.I mean...RADIOSITY !?
Preach Emmanuel, preach!

50one
06-06-2014, 02:43 PM
Totally agree with you here hrgiger, free updates are a excellent.

Free is always good for customers, but is it really that good for the business owner?especially if we're talking about long-term development? How to fund the innovation and necessary resources? Yeah I know zBrush, but they're making quite a lot of money from selling new licenses so can fund the development, call me a pesymist but it's hard to believe that many aritist/studios are buying LW these days.

jeric_synergy
06-06-2014, 02:44 PM
(I think a comment of mine got lost in the intertubez...)

I have a lot of hope that Matt and Jen will be pointing out the really fun-damn-mental issues of


CONSISTENCY and
EASE OF USE and
WORKFLOW and
UI PRINCIPLES.


A lot of the issues I have with LW/LWM as software qualify under the "low-hanging-fruit", or "LFH" type problems: if the app were more consistent we would wouldn't be using so many cheats, tricks, and pure guru magic to wring the most out of the software. And I think Matt & Jen are well placed and inclined to really push on those issues.

FOR INSTANCE, every place it can make sense, MULTI-SELECT should be enabled. It only occurred to me the other day that it'd be really nice to multi-select keys in Gradients (!!!) to make it easier to change spline interpolation, or set global alphas.

realgray
06-06-2014, 06:19 PM
I'm just hoping for a couple render improvements. Micropoly disp, passes, faster refraction, better AA :)

Snosrap
06-06-2014, 07:59 PM
I'm just hoping for a couple render improvements. Micropoly disp, passes, faster refraction, better AA :)
Way to keep the expectations low. :)

realgray
06-06-2014, 09:40 PM
way to keep the expectations low. :)

lol