PDA

View Full Version : VPR causing consistant crashing



alexoctagon2009
05-27-2014, 12:21 PM
Hi

Over the past year or so LW has been crashing (freezing) on most of my scenes when VPR is open. It seems to be getting worse each time there's an update to LW. It happens when I switch to layout from modeller, or when I simply start to move an object, or also often when I adjust a displacement setting. It's driving me nuts now as I find VPR indispensable as I did FPrime. It's happened on my old and new workstations, their specs are:

New Machine:
LW11.6.3
Windows7 64bit
Xeon E5-297v2 - 2 processors
64GB Ram
Quadro K4000

Old Machine:
LW11.6.3
Windows7 64bit
Xeon X5680 - 2 processors
24Ram
Geforce GTX470

I've looked on the forums and I haven't really seen this as a common problem, but since it's been across 2 pc's and several versions of LW I'm thinking I can't be the only one, can anyone offer any thoughts?!

Cheers,
Alex

Snosrap
05-27-2014, 12:47 PM
Same here. But I've been doing a lot of Bullet dynamics and have kinda wrote it off as that being the cause. Don't really know though.

prometheus
05-27-2014, 04:08 PM
yeah..VPR in the final build seem to have some issues, both in freezing..especially when switching from modeler to lightwave with VPR active..I donīt recall this happen as often in the 11.6 prebuilds.
I also have issues constantly when tweaking values and VPR halts for a few seconds ..then start to refining again, same here..I donīt recall that happening in the prebuilds.

Michael

Sensei
05-27-2014, 06:50 PM
I would not dare to switch between Modeler to Layout with VPR, Fprime or any other real-time previewer running in parallel.

That's asking for troubles.

LW is loading data between different processes (Modeler), and when it's doing so, no usage of old data, nor usage of new data can be performed.

Otherwise, I don't have any VPR issues.
But I am not using any not updated to specific LW nodes.

Snosrap
05-27-2014, 09:47 PM
All the more reason for them to stop this two app silliness.

spherical
05-27-2014, 10:42 PM
As if that's going to majestically make all of the interoperability between modes go away, like some magic bullet. One UI or two, you're switching in and out of modes. Stuff you have initiated has to be completed, or buffered between them until it is; no matter what the UI happens to look like. Big whoop. It's on one screen instead of two. In some circles, two is better. You can actually have tow operations progressing at the same time.

Yeah, there's parallel processing and all that, but when you are making changes to one model in one mode, that update must be transferred into the other mode in order for it to be ready to accept the next thing. If it isn't, there would be way more screaming about how sucks. To me, this cry for a Unified UI is just [I]The Emperor's New Clothes. Same $h!t, different day. Problems that we have now may, or may not, go by the wayside; only to be handily replaced with ones you hadn't remotely considered. I'll take the app either way; and I do. I will not, however, buy into the hackneyed mantra of "We Desperately Need a Unified UI.... NOW!", as if it is a Holy Grail that cures all evils.

Now, I'll take this time to qualify that with the fact that I've been up for three days... again... so am on a short fuse. Still, this so oft-repeated, continued hammering on Unified UI really could stand to be throttled just a bit. It'll come when it's ready and, hopefully, not one moment sooner. Grass is always greener. Life is always better somewhere else. Things would always be far better if we only had.... But, when you get there, it's not as rosy as you generously pictured.

Point is, we have a pretty darn good app, here. Looking down our noses and into its mouth sours the experience of what we have now.

Cheers.

jwiede
05-28-2014, 12:57 AM
A unified architecture wouldn't likely use interprocess data marshaling, so wouldn't have this specific type of issue, but could as easily have similar data access synchronization issues. This issue is not a compelling justification for unified architecture.

alexoctagon2009
05-28-2014, 02:51 AM
I quite like the benefits of the two separate apps. Anyway, the problem isn't just switching from one app to the other, the crashes happen frequently when moving objects and editing displacements. I can't think of any other instance at the moment.

bazsa73
05-28-2014, 02:51 AM
One does not simply unify 2 apps.

Danner
05-28-2014, 03:03 AM
This is not a 11.6.3 issue, it has been unstable from version 11.5. It helps if you save your objects before switching (both ways), but turning off VPR before switching to modeler is the safest method, bind "view Port Toggle VPR" to a key.

mike_stening
05-28-2014, 04:44 AM
same issues here but as others have said just drop out of VPR before doing any adjustment work on moving models or editing in modeler. Light changes and surface changes in layout appear to be fine but not if done in modeler with VPR active in layout (obviously you cant change lights in modeler)

probiner
05-28-2014, 05:11 AM
Although I'm all for unification, truth be said there was a time with Arnold and Softimage, I witnessed a lot of crashes. People trying to preview and crashes all over. So it can happen in a unified environment. It didn't happen though just by failing to update changes. Was more of a case of not being able to deal with non-manifold messy meshes.

VPR is still ~95% of my layout crashes (some I don't know what they are). Modeler is a different thing. So If I would join both I would get like VPR 60% crashes. I would risk to say that would be around the same figure for other IPR's.

Cheers

Sensei
05-28-2014, 06:07 AM
Simply start recording videos.
Show on them how you're starting VPR, then what you need to do to have certain effect (freeze/crash) and send report together with scene.
If Deuce will reply "reproduced here" you have win as this means they will be able to find guilty code for 90%.

If you can't reproduce your own bug report at any time whenever you want, they will certainly won't be able too.

There is hundred places in code where there are needed functions to stop VPR and restart VPR.
They need to find such place without start/stop and add them.
But how can they add them if you don't provide details where to search for them?

MAKE VIDEOS with scene that you can give away.

prometheus
05-28-2014, 06:14 AM
I would not dare to switch between Modeler to Layout with VPR, Fprime or any other real-time previewer running in parallel.

That's asking for troubles.

LW is loading data between different processes (Modeler), and when it's doing so, no usage of old data, nor usage of new data can be performed.

Otherwise, I don't have any VPR issues.
But I am not using any not updated to specific LW nodes.

That may be that you shouldnīt switch between modeler and layout with vpr active, however..I was used to do that before without any issues, so thatīs why.

now bring all modeler tools to layout and we could of course avoid that, working with modeling tools of point clusters or other stuff in conjunction with vpr active is a must for some setups nowadays, so either the hub connection
of working with modeler and vpr active should work more flawlessly or..bring as much modeling tools in to layout sooner than later.

recording videos of our issues is a good idea, since it wonīt help with scene content in these circumstances.

Michael

zapper1998
05-28-2014, 10:36 AM
I have had no issues with VPR and modeler, switching between the 2 apps, i have had no crashes..

doing the TFD and Octane with both apps no crashes, have also done bullet sims and running both apps no crashes..

mike

It is more than likely the OS not the Lightwave..

jeric_synergy
05-28-2014, 10:36 AM
same issues here but as others have said just drop out of VPR before doing any adjustment work on moving models or editing in modeler.
I don't consider this a serious response: "just do something incredibly inconvenient" is not really an answer.

Geometry that demonstrates these issues MUST be supplied to LW3dG so they can figure out what the problem is. So start collecting the worst offenders (and screw the NDAs: do you want this fixed or not?).

EDIT: what Sensei said, but with all sorts of underlining, bolding, and color.

prometheus
05-28-2014, 03:53 PM
I have had no issues with VPR and modeler, switching between the 2 apps, i have had no crashes..

doing the TFD and Octane with both apps no crashes, have also done bullet sims and running both apps no crashes..

mike

It is more than likely the OS not the Lightwave..

I donīt think so..if lw prebuilds worked ok on the same machine and same OS..why the heck is it giving me a punch in the face with the final lw builds? doesnīt make sense.
windows 7

Sensei
05-28-2014, 04:00 PM
I donīt think so..if lw prebuilds worked ok on the same machine and same OS..why the heck is it giving me a punch in the face with the final lw builds? doesnīt make sense.
windows 7

Apparently the latest adjustments to LW introduced in the last moment.
You have to carefully check builds to single one, to verify when it's been introduced.
This would largely help figuring out which change caused issue. Each build is probably stored and can be compared to see differences to every line of code.

OTOH, Windows are constantly downloading updates, constantly changing..