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Weetos
11-22-2003, 04:36 AM
Just wonder something, looking at the LW8 screenshots... what did they do the coloured UI ??? where did the brushed metal look go? I dislike that monochrome dark thing, and those buttons. Will it be possible to keep the LW7 look? I spent so much time in front of that lovely interface, I wouldn't want to live without it - and the new one is gonna make my eyes sick ;)

hrgiger
11-22-2003, 05:37 AM
The screenshots you have seen are most likely not the final versions of the interface, at least that's what Newtek has stated on several occasions.

I kind of like the monochromatic thing myself.

Besides, we also don't know yet how customizable it is yet...

Weetos
11-22-2003, 07:17 AM
Sorry, I didn't know that topic has been already discussed, I searched on the forum for it, but I didn't find it.

We all waiting for this new release, but I'm afraid some of the drawbacks of LW7.5 won't be fixed (ie surface baker), and since I'm not much into character animation stuff, I would like to know more about LW8 than what Newtek shows on the preview page.

Nemoid
11-22-2003, 07:39 AM
fortunately, Lw[8] will come out soon, so even if Nt will not show so much here, you will have the opportunity to see the app soon.(but Nt will show, I think:))

I see there are many users wich do architectural with Lw, and I'm always wondering why they love to do this in Lw, because its more a sfx and character oriented app, IMO. but i agree with them mostly, about archi tools, snaps and a faster rendering though. better tools in the app, better tools for everyone!!

about the UI, Nt ha always given the user the possibility o switch to older UI's so I think thats not the case. there are also good plugs to change UI colors so that if you don't like them, you can change them.

if I was Nt , i'll give the user the possibility to completely customize their UI, but I dunno if this will be possible in 8, and its a minor prob too.

CB_3D
11-22-2003, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Nemoid

I see there are many users wich do architectural with Lw, and I'm always wondering why they love to do this in Lw, because its more a sfx and character oriented app, IMO.

Love? Who said anything about love?? I simply have bills to pay, thatīs why my main focus is on arch. previz now.
LW is actually very good for developing and previzing (new word here, ha) architecture. I agree, better snaps are needed.

I like the interface. The buttons could do with less bevel, but hey, who really cars...

Wade
11-22-2003, 10:06 AM
LW is greaat for doing Architectural Illustrations. PLUS some day when I have time I will be half way to making movies with aliens and such!!!:)

Wade
11-22-2003, 10:07 AM
I do like the GUI the way it is now as well.

Nemoid
11-22-2003, 12:51 PM
the current GUI is fine, and also the GUI of the screenshots is not too bad and probably we'll have some nice surprise at the release.

as for architecturals, there are many users wich complains about a lot of things. why don't they use VIz?

Wade
11-22-2003, 01:19 PM
Viz is poo.;)

archiea
11-22-2003, 03:10 PM
I still say the bevel and the outlining of the buttons is too much.... its far to clutterted, even in its minimal state now.

For some examples....

Dark Lotus offers the kind of minimal clutter that I prefer. While I think that the color scheme needs work, the simplicity of the interface makes the workspace clean.

http://homepage.mac.com/dark_lotus/lw/intro.html

Here are some samples of matt's proposals...

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1503&highlight=gui+interface+design


I think matt has always offered a radically different yet viable alternative to LW's interface that was clean and professional...

http://www.3dpoder.com/foro3dpoder/upload/lightwave_vx_interface2.jpg

Dan Ablan posted a nice clean design here... Though I'd replace the round buttons with rectangular (not how each rounded button adds clutter to the edges with the boarder of the button menu) and I would reduce the color to the standard LW grey...
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=52603


I also liked GruvSyco designs, but they are no longer available
maybe he can repost them....:mad:


Anyway, here's the address to the threads...

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8241&highlight=gui+interface+design

I hope this fuels the fire!!!

Nemoid
11-23-2003, 03:42 AM
those proposals are good!! i watched them at the time they were posted. Dark lotus very good IMO.
also Ablam made a good job. maybe grey is too bright though.

think Matt author of Lw Vx has been hired from Nt ? if so, I think there's no prob. only we din't see his final work:)

CB_3D
11-23-2003, 09:43 AM
Oh yes, all these designs look great.
The Modo one made me smile, it would actually be funny if L8 had a Modo-LW-emulation emulation mode, LOL.

Emulation squared!

Matt
11-24-2003, 03:10 AM
No, I was never hired by NewTek, there was talk of an interface workshop, but that was an initiative by Lee Stranahan not NewTek. Whether it will still happen I really don't know. NewTek already have someone working on the interface - Kevin Nations.

I did start looking at the vX (version 10) stuff taking on-board the comments made in the threads, this was as far as I went with it:

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vx_newlook_small.jpg (http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/vx_newlook_big.jpg)

had a look at Motion Designer too (mainly a visual update than a complete overhaul)

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/Motion_Designer_vX-Blue.jpg

Might pick this up again after v8 comes out, although I'm wondering why!?!

Cheers
Matt

Karmacop
11-24-2003, 04:14 AM
I'd be very happy id Lightwave ended up looking like your vX design :)

Weetos
11-24-2003, 04:59 AM
wow... some of those GUI are pretty cool ! they're just photoshop designs, or some of them are screengrabs of real theme ? In this case, I'd like to know if a SDK is available...

Nemoid
11-24-2003, 06:03 AM
Xcuse me, Matt. MaybeI understood bad, about you being hired from Nt.

Vx design is very good IMO, so I hope Nt is taking some good inspiration from it, as well as from other good proposals as well.:)

Matt
11-24-2003, 06:31 AM
no problem! well they've seen it, some liked it, others hated it, whether they use any of it who knows, they're welcome to pick and mix from it!

anieves
11-24-2003, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Karmacop
I'd be very happy id Lightwave ended up looking like your vX design :)

what he said.:)

nice job.

stef
11-24-2003, 03:04 PM
Matt's original idea (the creme color one) struck me as incredibly beautiful, awsome, refreshing, exciting, welcoming in other words superior to what we have had before, even though at the cost of parting with the old paradigm. To most people it was great. However one real moron started to 'monkey' around with it not sparring Matt viscious personal attacks. Hence he has the right to feel bitter about his pro-bono effort. Unfortunately NT did not stand up to the occasion and basically tanked the project for as much as one can tell. Therefore my suggestion for NT is to create in their code base an opportunity for Matt to be able to offer commercially a plug-in of his design that will "take over" LW interface once installed. In that case everyone should be happy, people will vote with their dollars what environment they want to spend their time in. And for that wreched Monkey - a putrid banana...

Godspeed Matt in your life endeavors - you came through as a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you.

archiea
11-24-2003, 10:30 PM
Matt,

Sorry about the psyche-out regarding the belief that NT was going to use you as a consultant. Thats too bad. Lee was very vocal then, Don't know why he's silent now....

I met Kevin Nations at user group meeting recently. He gave me his card and I was prepping some info for him. He seemed receptive...

I believe the one area where we can help are these forums... Personally, I think Matt's layout shows the simpicity that I was after. I don't understand why NT is so insistant on this clutter look: With all of the outlines, bevels and grads... Its a bit inbred. And all of this motivation to change is supposedly fueled by marketing wanting to have LW look different to reflect it being a new version. So perhaps thats the root of the problem: not really a desire to improve the interface but just to change it..

Matt, I say take your current design, and swap out the blue hilight with the puple and green of 7.5 and you are set. The blue makes it look to cool/blue biased.

And keep up the experimenting, Matt, if only for fueling this debate until it sinks in to the powers that be...

jin choung
11-24-2003, 11:03 PM
one thing about the new interface newtek,

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get rid of the red,green,blue in the mini dope sheet above the timeline!

because you cannot move those channels INDEPENDENTLY of each other and so it is just a useless bit of camouflage.

don't make it rgb unless you allow the functionality it implies.

jin

Matt
11-25-2003, 02:48 AM
Thanks for the support there Stef! :)

I'm not sure it's _that_ amazing, but still thanks anyway!

archiea - don't worry about the mistake, that was the impression given out on the forum.

I've exchanged a few emails with Kevin, he seems like a perfectly capable chap, otherwise he wouldn't be there doing it!

The blue was influenced from the blue/grey look out of SIGGRAPH, I quite liked that!

Anyway, I don't really want to drag this whole debate up again, it didn't really go anywhere the first time!!!

If I do come up with anything that is worthy of showing the world you'll be the first to know!

Again thanks for the kind messages!

Regards
Matt

geoff3dnz
11-25-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by jin choung
one thing about the new interface newtek,

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get rid of the red,green,blue in the mini dope sheet above the timeline!

because you cannot move those channels INDEPENDENTLY of each other and so it is just a useless bit of camouflage.

don't make it rgb unless you allow the functionality it implies.

jin How do you know the individual channels can't be moved independently?

comanche
11-25-2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by geoff3dnz
How do you know the individual channels can't be moved independently?

Exactly my thought. Once you've shifted keys, there has to be a way or another ....

Andreas

Matt
11-25-2003, 02:21 PM
I was wondering that too, Jin you on the beta list or something?! :)

WilliamVaughan
11-25-2003, 05:33 PM
You can actually move them independently....not sure where you get ur info....

jin choung
11-25-2003, 07:46 PM
errr,

i saw it in the l.a. user group demo.

proton, are you saying for a fact that x, y, and z channels can be moved and shifted independently in the mini dope sheet above the timeline?

cuz the demonstrator said that was not possible... and if it's not then the rgb should be removed for being a ruse....

jin

p.s. if so, that's great.... i hope we also have the option of placing the rotate channels there as well....

WizCraker
11-25-2003, 08:22 PM
looks like your demo person is not in the correct circle.

jin choung
11-25-2003, 11:40 PM
wow,

considering who the guy was, that could be very disturbing news indeed.

so proton, final word? yes or no? if yes, that's great.

jin

WilliamVaughan
11-26-2003, 04:55 AM
Rob Powers is an excellent LW artists and he gave the demo....sounds like he is still warming up to all the new tools...there is alot to take in :)


This has been a feature from the beginning of the birth of the Dope Track....you just lock the channels you don't want to move and your set...works great!

jin choung
11-26-2003, 05:53 AM
actually,

it was someone from newtek... but no big deal. good... glad that what appears to work actually does.

jin

WilliamVaughan
11-26-2003, 05:59 AM
Kevin was the only NewTek guy there and he knows about this....must have been some miscommunication....

jin choung
11-26-2003, 06:06 AM
yup,

it was kevin but yah, must've been a miscommunication.

jin

WilliamVaughan
11-26-2003, 08:15 AM
Here is a quick pic that shows what I think you want to see :)

pixelranger
11-26-2003, 09:18 AM
Proton: What kind of policy does Newtek have towards financing medications that users have to take to withstand the pressure from being so exited during the wait for the next versions? I have a couple of barrels with Pinex that I was sorta hoping Newtek would pay for...

Anyway, Proton, things are looking extremely good so far and I'd find it strange if I should be the only one here thinking that Newtek and LightWave is facing a bright future.

WilliamVaughan
11-26-2003, 09:31 AM
I'll check the company policy :)

Matt
11-26-2003, 09:54 AM
do you slide those 1 pixel thin lines about?????

don't you think they are just a tad too thin? please think about users with high screen resolutions, those lines will be infuriating to click on.

WilliamVaughan
11-26-2003, 09:59 AM
when selected they are much larger to move....and you always have access to the Dope Sheet if you choose to work with cells over the marks in the dope track.

Matt
11-26-2003, 10:43 AM
so they become bigger _after_ you've selected the skinny ones!?!?!

where's the benefit in that?

- - -

I'm sure this must work better in reality, difficult to tell from a screen grab!

jcool
11-26-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by proton
when selected they are much larger to move....and you always have access to the Dope Sheet if you choose to work with cells over the marks in the dope track.

Sounds good.. Why don't you go ahead and post a screen of the dopesheet too, just for reference? ;)

WilliamVaughan
11-26-2003, 11:33 AM
will do...as soon as I get the go ahead :)

comanche
11-26-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by proton
Here is a quick pic that shows what I think you want to see :)

Ahhh, very nice! So is there an option to turn on/off vector selection (select all channels or one channel)? Or some hotkey while you grab X, Y or Z?

Can't wait to get my hands on it :D

Cheers

jin choung
11-26-2003, 07:08 PM
coooool....

that's all i wanted to hear baby....

just wanted to make sure that there was no less functionality than apparent.

good deal. thanks proton.

jin

siproductions
11-26-2003, 07:17 PM
Yes indeed. Thanks for the tidbit, and also you guys at Newtek, Take your time getting LW8 out. Just make sure it has a lot of great features.:)

papa
11-27-2003, 05:40 AM
any thoughts on implementing stacks in modelling/animation? Will we ever see modeller-layout integrated?

Karmacop
11-27-2003, 07:35 AM
Matt has a point about selecting a 1 pixel wide thing. It is a soft selection though isn't it? As in ... it'll let you click on a few pixels either side and still select the key to move wont it Proton?