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jaf
05-05-2014, 08:50 AM
I was curious about the logic of moving many of the threads in the General area to Third Party. I always thought Third Party was for products/contributions to Lightwave (like LWCAD.) But topics like "Adobe reports lowest net profit yet for Q1 2014..." were moved there. Seems to me that is a general topic..... but maybe I'm the one that's "thinking wrong."

SBowie
05-05-2014, 10:55 AM
Just as background, there have been some discussions about this, and Chuck updated the forum policy sticky post in hopes of clarifying.

I don't think you are incorrect that topics like one relating to Adobe's profits (which is bound to include comments on supposed ramifications of Adobe policy, don't you think?) are inherently more 'general' than most threads about a third-party product with tie-ins to NewTek products. Actually, it's really not directly related to NewTek or NewTek products at all, is it. Even so, it may well be of interest NewTek product users, or at least a subset of them ... more likely the LW user community than the TriCaster or 3Play ones, although there is some overlap. As such, the correct location for a thread of that sort more or less suggests itself, doesn't it?

It seems pretty obvious that the entire top category, with 4 sub-divisions, was originally intended for NewTek-related discussions of one or another sort, but 'drifted' from its original purpose over time. (The thread on forum issues might be an example of something that properly belongs in 'General'.) The various 'Community' sub-forums lend themselves nicely to broader discussions that have nothing to do with NewTek specific matters, events and the like. That said, this hasn't been rigorously enforced, and probably won't be any time soon either.

GandB
05-06-2014, 10:51 AM
I still don't understand it myself; the 3rd Party section is labeled LW-3rdParty. That would denote anything that is LW-related, but made by a "3rd Party". The Adobe (or UDK, or Modo) discussion wouldn't/shouldn't fall under that. That's what I/we thought the "General Discussion" was for? Everything else has a NewTek/Lightwave area to post in; but the only place to post a non-NT/LW post, was in the General Discussion area. Perhaps Chuck should make another section labeled simply "3rd Party"....without any LW connotation?

Otherwise, it just doesn't make any sense to myself or many others; especially after so many years. But, it's NT's Boards; so I suppose they can do whatever they want. There are always other places to go, to talk about the industry in general.

SBowie
05-06-2014, 11:17 AM
I still don't understand it myself; the 3rd Party section is labeled LW-3rdParty. That would denote anything that is LW-related, but made by a "3rd Party". The Adobe (or UDK, or Modo) discussion wouldn't/shouldn't fall under that.Agreed (that pretty much echos my comment).


That's what I/we thought the "General Discussion" was for?Clearly, some others did too. Of course, it's pretty clear even from the forum grouping that this was incorrect, never mind the guidelines in the forum policy ... but, for better or worse, this was let slide for some time. A post about Adobe, or even more obviously, Modo, has virtually nothing to do with NewTek ... 'generally' or otherwise. However, both might be of interest to the "LW Community" - always assuming LW group moderators don't feel they overstep in some way. (As an aside, a really rigorous application of forum policy would limit discussion to "professional and civil discourse regarding NewTek products by NewTek users", but I think no one wants that).

As I wrote elsewhere, a case could be made for a general 'industry news' sub-forum, or more likely several of them. For example, topics of 'general' interest to TriCaster operators might hold little interest for sports replay operators, and vice versa; and most LWers probably care very little about topics of general interest to either of those groups. It's not that there is no overlap, but this is generally true.

GandB
05-06-2014, 09:40 PM
Well hopefully Chuck considers creating another section for the industry itself. Would he rather have people talking about things like that here, or at a competitor's site that does allow it in an easy format?

SBowie
05-07-2014, 05:34 AM
Well hopefully Chuck considers creating another section for the industry itself.What sort of thread of this sort are you contemplating that would not be appropriate for LW Community, which - being about 3/4" lower on the page - is truly no more difficult to access than this one?


Would he rather have people talking about things like that here, or at a competitor's site that does allow it in an easy format?Naturally we want the community to enjoy a congenial experience, and one that doesn't unnecessarily impinge on friendly, informative and helpful discourse. Though I really don't see where categorizing posts a bit causes any meaningful inconvenience, I'll be the first to admit that the forums could use a little love. That said, and while I can't speak for Chuck - I've seen many threads over the years where posting it on another site entirely would have been preferable.

GandB
05-07-2014, 10:33 AM
What sort of thread of this sort are you contemplating that would not be appropriate for LW Community, which - being about 3/4" lower on the page - is truly no more difficult to access than this one?

I have to scroll considerably to see the LW 3rd Party section (and I'm running at 1280x1024 resolution); and when I do see it, it's under the "LightWave 3D Technique Discussions" section. Do you seriously think anyone that hasn't been around to see all this, is going to connect the dots that, that's where they should put a thread like the Adobe one in? Seriously?


Though I really don't see where categorizing posts a bit causes any meaningful inconvenience...

It wasn't really "categorizing" them, rather more like "burying" them in a section nearly no one would expect them to be in. Not to mention, most people who had an interest in each of those threads has to dig for them now, as any bookmarks they had are void now.

Like I said; it's NT's Boards, they can do what they want....when they want. No skin off my back, there are other places to discuss the actual industry in.

SBowie
05-07-2014, 11:05 AM
I have to scroll considerably to see the LW 3rd Party section (and I'm running at 1280x1024 resolution)I think we've agreed that the Adobe thread is more general in nature than "LW 3rd Party". "LW Community" on the other hand, though you seem disinclined to acknowledge it, seems to be a good fit and is highly accessible.

Setting the Adobe thread aside, then, and speaking of truly LW-related 3rd party threads, I'm hard-pressed to see why 'no one would expect them to be in LW 3rd Party'. That seems like a stretch. Granted, that group is lower down in the list, but still much higher than many other busy forums. In the end, they can't all be at the top. Finally, if I'm not mistaken, bookmarks are unaffected by a move in VBulletin.

GandB
05-07-2014, 11:21 AM
I'm really scratching my head here Steve. Perhaps we're not on the same sheet of music here or something. This is where threads such as the Adobe thread, the AD thread, and many others of that nature have gone (see image, at the bottom).

121797

Why would anyone put something that, in any other board, should go in a "General Discussion" board/section...in the LW-3rd Party Board (nestled in the "LightWave 3D Technique Discussions" section)? I haven't talked about the LW Community section in any way, shape or form. Please show me the thread in the Lightwave Community (http://forums.newtek.com/forumdisplay.php?18-LW-Community) section that has anything generic (industry-related) and non-LW in it?

Again, the old threads that were in the "General Discussion" (in the "NewTek Forums" sub-section) were moved to the "LW-3rd Party" Board (in the "LightWave 3D Technique Discussions" sub-section). There is nothing I have said, that refers to the Lightwave Community sub-section; and there is nothing "general" posted there....which isn't LW-related. Is that clearer?

SBowie
05-07-2014, 11:53 AM
This is where threads such as the Adobe thread, the AD thread, and many others of that nature have gone (see image, at the bottom).I see. I think Chuck remarked, in his recent post on the moves that were done, to the effect that some of the destinations might have been a bit peremptory. Personally, as I've said, I agree the Adobe thread doesn't particularly suit LW 3rd Party.

Like many of the threads that accumulated in NewTek>General Discussion over time, though, neither does it seem appropriate for a group clearly dedicated to NewTek-specific categories. Three of these are actually locked off for official NewTek announcements, and the remaining one was intended for discussion of those announcements and other similar general NewTek-related conversations (perhaps like the one we are having now). It was certainly never intended as a 'catch-all' OT forum.

Again, I don't think one or more categories set aside for discussions of industry trends (etc.) of general interest to the various communities would be a bad thing. Absent that, it seems to me that it would be perfectly reasonable if things of general interest to the LW Community (or the TriCaster Community, 3Play Community, or what-have-you) were discussed in their respective existing forums.

jwiede
05-07-2014, 12:03 PM
I see. I think Chuck remarked, in his recent post on the moves that were done, to the effect that some of the destinations might have been a bit peremptory. Personally, as I've said, I agree the Adobe thread doesn't particularly suit LW 3rd Party.
At least they got moved, my modo 801 release thread (pre-dating the one in ThirdParty, IIRC) appears to have been deleted outright -- that felt like a peremptory response, to say the least. I'd posted it in General because despite the "policy clarification" it still didn't seem to fit well elsewhere, and similar threads were still being posted and left in there after the policy clarification. I would have been fine with it being moved wherever, just to be clear, I couldn't make heads or tails of the policy "clarification".

SBowie
05-07-2014, 12:09 PM
I can't speak to that, John, sorry. I recall seeing one thread on the subject, but didn't pay it much attention. If so, I don't think that was part of the same moderation operation. As you know, there are multiple moderators, and I guess it's possible someone found fault with it. I really can't say (usually, though not always, if I moderate a thread or post I explain why directly to those involved by PM.)

GandB
05-07-2014, 12:39 PM
Well, I've laid it out as best I could; you appear to understand it now. I'll leave it at that.

jwiede
05-07-2014, 12:42 PM
I can't speak to that, John, sorry. I recall seeing one thread on the subject, but didn't pay it much attention. If so, I don't think that was part of the same moderation operation. As you know, there are multiple moderators, and I guess it's possible someone found fault with it. I really can't say (usually, though not always, if I moderate a thread or post I explain why directly to those involved by PM.)
No worries, Steve.

Chuck
05-08-2014, 02:32 PM
Hi, John! I didn't delete any threads when I was doing my moderation binge a while back. If it is gone, that was not me. I do note a Modo 8.0.1 thread in third party, but that one's on the preview.

As for the Adobe profits thread, I'm with y'all on that one, clearly a brainfart on my part moving it down there. It would go equally well here or in LW Community, depending on the preference and intention of the OP. I've moved it back here.

I'll revisit other moves as time allows but I will be away a few days so please be patient.

The current configuration of the forums has been in place for a very long time, and discussing what's working, what's not, and what might be better is well in order. Thanks for the input, and please do continue.

GandB
05-08-2014, 09:19 PM
Thanks for being able to take constructive criticism, Chuck. ;)

jwiede
05-08-2014, 10:00 PM
Hi, John! I didn't delete any threads when I was doing my moderation binge a while back. If it is gone, that was not me. I do note a Modo 8.0.1 thread in third party, but that one's on the preview.
Chuck, no worries. I haven't run across the thread anywhere, so it indeed appears to have been deleted. It was titled approx. "modo 801 released" and I posted it as soon as Lux opened the store to take orders (during the preview presentation), immediately after I purchased my upgrade.

Whatever, Terra's rotatation is unabated despite its demise. (g) I'm just glad to know it wasn't deleted as part of the topic reassessment, as I wasn't sure how to interpret that.

hrgiger
05-09-2014, 01:27 AM
Chuck, no worries. I haven't run across the thread anywhere, so it indeed appears to have been deleted. It was titled approx. "modo 801 released" and I posted it as soon as Lux opened the store to take orders (during the preview presentation), immediately after I purchased my upgrade.

Whatever, Terra's rotatation is unabated despite its demise. (g) I'm just glad to know it wasn't deleted as part of the topic reassessment, as I wasn't sure how to interpret that.

Pretty sure it was deleted and your first post on the new thread moved to the other 801 thread now in 3rd party.

jwiede
05-09-2014, 12:04 PM
Pretty sure it was deleted and your first post on the new thread moved to the other 801 thread now in 3rd party.
Nah, I posted that post mentioning the release in the 801 preview thread myself after I noticed my other post had disappeared, it wasn't moved from somewhere else. Thanks, though.

hrgiger
05-09-2014, 01:55 PM
Ah ok. I just remember I had made a post on the thread that disappeared and then saw your post in the other thread and thought it had been consolidated.