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t0ol
04-30-2014, 06:23 PM
Here`s the problem - if im working in symmetry mode, lets say in the Back viewport, tools like drag, move, stretch etc work fine for the RIGHT part of the model, but for the LEFT side they`re doing the opposite of what I need - i.e. dragging left does drag to the right ..

Quite frusturating, esp in perspective. Can i fix this somehow?

ernpchan
04-30-2014, 06:28 PM
Sounds like you're looking down the wrong axis in Persp view. The symmetry tool is based on working on the +X side. Sounds like you're trying to work on the -X side.

You could spin your object around 180 degrees to get the proper view you want in Persp.

t0ol
04-30-2014, 06:34 PM
Well it acts the same way in the Back viewport..

ernpchan
04-30-2014, 06:52 PM
Right...Symmetry expects you to do your manipulation from the +X side. If I change Back to Front then I have to work on the left side of my model to get the proper mouse drag action. If I work on the right side then my moves are inverted.

t0ol
04-30-2014, 07:00 PM
Ah, another "feature".. LW is so full of fu surprizes

ernpchan
04-30-2014, 07:05 PM
Submit a feature request, it's the only way to get things like this changed. The more voices the better.

t0ol
04-30-2014, 07:15 PM
Pointless, the list would be a very long one. The problem is not with 1 tool not working prefectly, its with the dev attitude towards changes.
I can understand resisting changes caused by fear to lose major client base with established workflows etc, but when you`ve already lost everyone other than hardcore fans its kinda.. funny.

Ryan Roye
04-30-2014, 07:34 PM
Actually this is something I'd like to see too; being able to edit with multiple angles of symmetry would be helpful.

Snosrap
04-30-2014, 10:27 PM
Yeah, this has been this way since v6. Way lame. I would hope that NT is aware the issue by now. v12 needs to be watershed release and really show progress in the modeling realm with the millions of niggly things we currently suffer from.

jeric_synergy
05-01-2014, 01:21 AM
Hmmm.... huh, I guess I've been using it too long to notice... that is rubbish, needs to be fixed. Good call.

t0ol
05-01-2014, 07:27 PM
Umm.. I suppose i could come up with a dozen of similar relatively small to notice things right away, lol

One thing that drives me crazy is - does any1 have a good reason to have ~7 different tools - Bevel, Extrude, Smooth Shift, Multishift, Extender (+), Motion path extrude, Rail bevel.. theres probably more i donno about, all working slightly differently with regards to options and symmetry etc, but generally doing the same task? I`d actually add one more here - the NEW thicken. IMHO combining all the functionality into 1 (ok 2, just to fill the shelfs) is a no brainer.

t0ol
05-01-2014, 07:51 PM
just to check myself out.. from someone new to lw
1) undos
2) above mentioned tool.. combining em into one topic.. they all eat up keybinds btw
3) keybinds themselfs! custom keys/combos?
4) orbit in modeller
5) modal windows or whatever they`re called
6) snaps? wtf? lwcad should basically be a core functionality..
7) modeller and layout.. but that`s an old one.. running out
8) mmm FFD..
9) oh yeah - adjustable or simply increased radius for drag (and the like) tools.. - pretty tought to click exaclty on the vertex, havent had this issue anywhere.. increasing vertex size doesnt help nor does point radial falloff which opperates diffrently. same in bandsaw btw with editing lines - have to click exactly on it.
10) modeller bone mgmt window
11) workplanes.. more of dreaming here
12) I`d add a good n simple align system to finish the modeller part.

a dozen, done.

prometheus
05-01-2014, 08:22 PM
just to check myself out.. from someone new to lw
1) undos
2) above mentioned tool.. combining em into one topic.. they all eat up keybinds btw
3) keybinds themselfs! custom keys/combos?
4) orbit in modeller
5) modal windows or whatever they`re called
6) snaps? wtf? lwcad should basically be a core functionality..
7) modeller and layout.. but that`s an old one.. running out
8) mmm FFD..
9) oh yeah - adjustable or simply increased radius for drag (and the like) tools.. - pretty tought to click exaclty on the vertex, havent had this issue anywhere.. increasing vertex size doesnt help nor does point radial falloff which opperates diffrently. same in bandsaw btw with editing lines - have to click exactly on it.
10) modeller bone mgmt window
11) workplanes.. more of dreaming here
12) I`d add a good n simple align system to finish the modeller part.

a dozen, done.


12 points..thatīs little.

You are wrong with the point 9 section, you can use the numeric panel you know? so in the drag tool.. use the falloff radial and set it as you want..either set the values, or right click in viewport and size the falloff.
you can also use the magnet tool or dragnet for similar operation.

some other stuff I agree on, but we have to wait and see..thatīs life, and unless you are 98 years old and need it really fast, be patient about it.

Edit...I am not quite correct I think in the terms of drag working as you might expect, if you drop the tool and try to use drag again, it will not behave properly.
if you have drag or magnet active with its radial region select marker active, then you can be sure it only affects the points in that area, but once you drop it, and restart it..it will affect points even out of that radial area.

spherical
05-01-2014, 09:45 PM
All this sounds REALLY familiar.... and I don't mean the attributes of the application.

prometheus
05-01-2014, 11:04 PM
All this sounds REALLY familiar.... and I don't mean the attributes of the application.

and what do you mean? after a comes ? :D

t0ol
05-02-2014, 05:30 AM
12 points..thatīs little.

You are wrong with the point 9 section, you can use the numeric panel you know? so in the drag tool.. use the falloff radial and set it as you want..either set the values, or right click in viewport and size the falloff.
you can also use the magnet tool or dragnet for similar operation.

some other stuff I agree on, but we have to wait and see..thatīs life, and unless you are 98 years old and need it really fast, be patient about it.

Edit...I am not quite correct I think in the terms of drag working as you might expect, if you drop the tool and try to use drag again, it will not behave properly.
if you have drag or magnet active with its radial region select marker active, then you can be sure it only affects the points in that area, but once you drop it, and restart it..it will affect points even out of that radial area.

Not really.. Drag with point falloff is able to drag the whole row of vertices in orth views, while other falloffs constrain it to the radius or whatever.. In short you cant drag the whole row this way, and magnet is quite a different animal.. And its all same with Bandsaw window - trying to click EXACTLY on the edge you wanna edit is pretty time consuming.

There`s a tonn of such minor buggies, which may be fine to live with, but the overall impression of the software suffers greatly, especially for new users, the fresh blood. I guess it was fine in the 90x when such way of things was a norm, but now it just feels like a beta version or something.

Honestly I think newtek shouldnt be offering a 30 day free trial, its kinda suicidal imho :)

Snosrap
05-02-2014, 09:49 AM
Honestly I think newtek shouldnt be offering a 30 day free trial, its kinda suicidal imho :) I'm not sure about that. While LW has many issues so does every other 3D app. Let's for example say that Acme3D is the best software out there and all my colleagues tell me I need to be using it because it is so awesome and has every feature known to man so I download the demo and give it a go. During that time I discover that navigating the 3D viewports is impossible and what should be the simple act of drawing out a cube is ridiculously difficult and cumbersome and I just can't wrap my head around any of the workflows - does that make it bad software -no. It does however make it not the right choice for me. I doubt any user entrenched in Acme3D would switch to LW, but many newbies to the world of 3D could possibly have downloaded both 30 day trials and have chosen LW simply because it clicks with them. So no, it is not suicidal for NT to offer a 30day trial, quite the contrary.

t0ol
05-02-2014, 10:15 AM
I`d argue that for each one brought in because of the trial experience there were 5 who turned away because of it. Things are plain unpolished here, compared to any other major, quality isnt there... I`m kinda talking from personal experience... and logic. So I`d still hold to my opinion that this management decision is in fact for the worse. But whatever..

prometheus
05-02-2014, 10:32 AM
Not really.. Drag with point falloff is able to drag the whole row of vertices in orth views, while other falloffs constrain it to the radius or whatever.. In short you cant drag the whole row this way, and magnet is quite a different animal.. And its all same with Bandsaw window - trying to click EXACTLY on the edge you wanna edit is pretty time consuming.

There`s a tonn of such minor buggies, which may be fine to live with, but the overall impression of the software suffers greatly, especially for new users, the fresh blood. I guess it was fine in the 90x when such way of things was a norm, but now it just feels like a beta version or something.

Honestly I think newtek shouldnt be offering a 30 day free trial, its kinda suicidal imho :)

I do not feel the same frustration as you when using drag tool or magnet or dragnet, so I am having a hard time understanding you on that.

you mean newtek should provide nothing or maybe a 15 day trial like modo, I havenīt even gotten arround to install the modo trial since the demo time is simply to short for my
to test, That is suicide....well it wonīt work for stubborn guys like me anyway.

And obviously some people do buy the software..both for modo and lightwave, dont think your logic holds up here.

Michael

t0ol
05-02-2014, 10:51 AM
Yeah, everything`s rosy in the world of Lightwave, both newtek and its faithful users are happy. Thats cool. Good luck guys.

djwaterman
05-02-2014, 12:42 PM
Regarding Symmetry, just understand which side you are manipulating and try not to cross over to the other side, that way your cursor will do what you expect it to do. It's actually pretty simple. As mentioned it only operates across the X value, so learn to work with that limitation. I've had to learn Maya, Modo and even Blender for work and during the learning phase felt there was some odd logic to them that only started to make sense when I stopped expecting them to operate a certain way.

Lewis
05-02-2014, 02:08 PM
that's true djwaterman, when you start to learn new software oyu almost need to un-learn old one first (if you want to adapt fast that is).

But then again having symmetry work only at one side and at one Axis (no Y or Z symmetry in LWM) has no logic, it's just plain neglected tool/feature for years and years and nothing more :(. It's not like LW users didn't ask for that feature many many times in past :).

Snosrap
05-02-2014, 02:19 PM
Yeah, everything`s rosy in the world of Lightwave, both newtek and its faithful users are happy. Thats cool. Good luck guys. I did not say everything was all roses at all. All I said was that if some newbie went and tried Acme3D and then LW, he may prefer LW so why is it suicide for Newtek to have a demo. There is no right or wrong answer to ones software selection - if the user can use it and do the things they want to do then that's all that matters. I jumped into this thread to reinforce the fact that the symmetry is totally lame, if you want to talk about what else isn't rosie about LW start another thread. There are tons of things to talk about. :) Don't assume all LW users are fanboys.

prometheus
05-02-2014, 02:36 PM
Yeah, everything`s rosy in the world of Lightwave, both newtek and its faithful users are happy. Thats cool. Good luck guys.

itīs not that black and white, what gave you the "right" to declare the black and white statement that everyones happy etc? what do you base that on?..itīs just meaningless ranting doing no good if you try to put everything in a general attitude classification.

Leave lightwave alone, use another software that better suits your ideas..since you donīt seem to enjoy this..whatīs the point of
complaining if you donīt have constructive complaints?..check back again in the future if you feel like it or donīt.

I have loads of stuff I am not happy of, but I direct my complaints on that with focus and not an overall bashing.

If you spend more time on these forums, you will se a lot of us and others having issues,suggestions and feature requests, now that is open for all to see, including the lightwave team to take notice of if we provide information,bug reports and feature requests.

And you can check some of my threads and rantings...and then come back and make another statement of how faithful users we all are, it has no bearing really...faithful
or not has really nothing do do with us.


Michael

prometheus
05-02-2014, 02:57 PM
I`d argue that for each one brought in because of the trial experience there were 5 who turned away because of it. Things are plain unpolished here, compared to any other major, quality isnt there... I`m kinda talking from personal experience... and logic. So I`d still hold to my opinion that this management decision is in fact for the worse. But whatever..

Where did you find those statistics?

spherical
05-02-2014, 05:30 PM
Yep. If it's crap to you, then it isn't a good fit.... for you. I have licenses for quite a few CAD/modeling/rendering applications, so not tied to LightWave entirely and defending it at all costs. However, this continued angry bashing gets to be tiring. Has a certain odd ring to it. Can't please everyone. There are plenty of other applications that may float your boat and I really do hope that you find one that fits.

t0ol
05-02-2014, 06:41 PM
Expected reaction. Enjoy your stay.

prometheus
05-02-2014, 07:15 PM
Expected reaction. Enjoy your stay.

yes..it seems your intention here is only to provoke, so that is our reaction here, enjoy our responses...unless you head somewhere else from now on:D

or you can stay and enjoy the lightwave experience and have popcorn with the rest of us.

spherical
05-02-2014, 07:15 PM
Really.... Wow.

t0ol
05-02-2014, 07:49 PM
Provoke? You? I was asking a question, then stating facts and expressing an opinion in an ironic way.
The crowd here became provoked, which is not my problem really.

I am enjoying LW in many aspects, that`s kinda why im here asking questions, but certain things simply drive me crazy. Trivial things dont get fixed for years. Then comes the answers like "get used to it", or "go elsewhere if you dont like it" or even "who gave you the right" - which is in fact fanboying in its core, which should be expected in an official app forum.

So in short, for those provoked, my irony was aimed at newtek management. Imagine I was talking to them. I could care less about your personal enjoyment, satisfaction or anything else with this product. Dont like bashing - dont bash, "enjoy your lightwave experience".

prometheus
05-02-2014, 07:59 PM
me? no ..not me ..
generally it is looking provoking, wether it may be aimed towards users here that are so faithful and happy and of course the newtek team.

you have a strange way of asking questions in some of your comments, Iīm just having a hard time understanding/confirming that as "questions"
But I guess thatīs my problem then?

I donīt fancy myself imagining you talking to them...good to know though, you are aiming your frustration at them..ok, but you can mail them too you know, thereīs no
need to involve us others in confusing questions.

unlike you though, I feel sorry for you if the product isnīt of your liking and having a good experience with it, and think you should look to some other tools.

Oh..edited...I missed, you enjoy LW in many aspects, now I am confused.