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rcallicotte
04-06-2014, 08:29 AM
Sony has no ownership of this video, whatsoever.

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/ideas-commentary/sony-demands-removal-of-open-source-indie-short-sintel-from-youtube-98182.html

JamesCurtis
04-06-2014, 01:38 PM
I agree with you!!

Maybe Sony is planning on releasing something and it looks similar to what they may have been planning, and are trying to eliminate it from being seen!!! Or maybe they don't want to be accused of plagiarism!!! Just a thought since Sony owns sooooo much as it is [and has very deep pockets], besides, who knows what they may have up their sleeves!!

Greenlaw
04-06-2014, 07:52 PM
Regardless, that's really messed up. Sintel was released a few years ago and was created entirely with original assets by the Blender Foundation...legally, Sony cannot make any claim on it.

I'm a bit surprised to hear that Google/YouTube has so far gone along with the take down. Shame on them.

G.

cresshead
04-06-2014, 08:12 PM
also this demonstrates how out of touch google/youtube are with content creators, i guess their only focus is on advertising dollars from huge corporations now like Sony.

Surrealist.
04-07-2014, 01:29 AM
This is of course a mistake. Not likely at all intentional.

Keep in mind, I am just a little guy. I complained that someone uploaded a video violating my copyright. I filled out the form, answered the questions. Never really heard anything from Youtube. They never contacted me to confirm, never tried - to my knowledge - to contest anything I claimed.

Within a few days the video was taken down. No questions asked really.

I hardly doubt they even check these things. A complaint is filed, likely with the thousands daily, I imagine they don't even have time to check anything.

I would not read anything more into it than that.


The removal of the film is most likely the result of a faulty DMCA take-down request,

Which says it all. Points made after that are fairly moot in my opinion.

50one
04-07-2014, 01:35 AM
This is of course a mistake. Not likely at all intentional.

Keep in mind, I am just a little guy. I complained that someone uploaded a video violating my copyright. I filled out the form, answered the questions. Never really heard anything from Youtube. They never contacted me to confirm, never tried - to my knowledge - to contest anything I claimed.

Within a few days the video was taken down. No questions asked really.

I hardly doubt they even check these things. A complaint is filed, likely with the thousands daily, I imagine they don't even have time to check anything.

I would not read anything more into it than that.



Which says it all. Points made after that are fairly moot in my opinion.



Hmmm, maybe depends on scenario, but last time I have contacted youtube I had to prove that I work for the company and send them photocopies of trademark registrations, because someone else was using our company name as their username, funny thing is that it took more than a week(constant email exchange with user support) to tell me after a week that this guy can keep his username www.youtube.com/user/mycompanyname, but I was offered www.youtube.com/companyname instead.


Besides, i guess Sony is sending a bulk of links to yt support and noone really checks them, because it's big corp I guess(rolleyes).

prometheus
04-07-2014, 08:05 AM
Stop using youtube!

itīs been messy in search results, ads constantly popping up on videos inside them etc.
you have to go to the system icon next to upload, overview, meeting place...ahhh..there it is INBOX!
UI sucks, conversion quality bad.

and of course, ridiculous demands on proof of you being the owner of something or user.

Google managed to screw up picasaweb too, thatīs a different story though.

roboman
04-07-2014, 08:59 AM
I don't see why any one is upset at youtube. If any web site gets a DMCA take down notice, they have to remove the content or they become libel for restitution if the owner sues for copyright violation. If some one files a false claim of copyright on something that belongs to you , you file a counter claim and the content can be reposted. Filing a false copyright claim can open the person/ company up to all kinds of legal actions. To get any real money you would likely need to prove in court that they filed the false claim to help promote their own product or view and hadn't simply made a mistake. Hell with all of the Sony content that gets posted around the net and all the take downs they likely file, itcould have been a mistake.

prometheus
04-07-2014, 09:36 AM
I don't see why any one is upset at youtube. If any web site gets a DMCA take down notice, they have to remove the content or they become libel for restitution if the owner sues for copyright violation. If some one files a false claim of copyright on something that belongs to you , you file a counter claim and the content can be reposted. Filing a false copyright claim can open the person/ company up to all kinds of legal actions. To get any real money you would likely need to prove in court that they filed the false claim to help promote their own product or view and hadn't simply made a mistake. Hell with all of the Sony content that gets posted around the net and all the take downs they likely file, itcould have been a mistake.


shouldnīt any proof of rights be proven from e.t.c Sony in which case they do send such proof in the first round, then google/youtube can send forward that to the youtube user account...sounds silly if they just state something without documented proof given.
In this case the youtube user says, no such communication is given.

Well..isnīt it better of if they actually do research, have a communication with the one they have received complaint about, but no..no time, we wait and see if any re-complaint shows up, and all that legal process should be started, it could probably be avoided at a stage before engaging legal complaints/re-complaints.

Apart from that, I now think youtube sucks mostly in terms of usability mess, and the amount of on video displayed ads, which could reach ridiculous levels of pop up ads all through the clip you want to see, I understand it can be a choice of the clip maker to have activated ads, but that is alsa a choice from youtube owners to allow how such ads displays etc.

Search engine is screwed up, and getting to your mailbox is a pain in the, and stuff hidden in the profile when it just as easy can be a one click button for a basic logout, that is the same new hidde UI trend in outlook mail for old hotmail users too, itīs not user friendly.
quality of conversions is often worse than vimeo.

two reasons to use it still, well it reaches most people and is most well know., and you can load without limit I think...otherwise I enjoy vimeo much more, easier to navigate in UI, better quality, and mailbox easier to find, conversion turns up better.

Michael

Greenlaw
04-07-2014, 10:37 AM
This is of course a mistake. Not likely at all intentional.

I don't doubt it was unintentional but with the bad publicity it's generating, you'd think they (Google and/or Sony) would have addressed the situation immediately. Not to mention, the 'claim' Sony is making--that the Blender Foundation is stealing their content--could be taken as slander.

IMO, the Blender Foundation may have a case if they choose to pursue it. That might temper the use of bots to take down 'content pirates' that instead wind up harassing independent content developers.

G.

P.S., I did find a curious bit of info elsewhere--apparently, Sony had used Sintel as content to demonstrate their 4k technology. I wonder if that's related to why their bot is making claims to Sintel as Sony's property. If so, that reveals a serious flaw in their unmanned 'pirate hunting' system.

P.P.S., Ah, just noticed that Sintel is up and running again.

Greenlaw
04-07-2014, 10:39 AM
I guess what really bugs me about this whole thing is that the system obviously favors the accuser and places the burden of proof on the defender.

G.

cresshead
04-07-2014, 11:08 AM
I guess what really bugs me about this whole thing is that the system obviously favors the accuser and places the burden of proof on the defender.

G.


guilty until proved innocent....something sounds a bit odd with that...

prometheus
04-07-2014, 12:35 PM
guilty until proved innocent....something sounds a bit odd with that...

Yes...thatīs what I said..almost, or tried to express, something is wrong with the world, earth axis vobbling or magnetic polarshift? I dunno.

Michael

roboman
04-07-2014, 09:20 PM
shouldnīt any proof of rights be proven from e.t.c Sony in which case they do send such proof in the first round.....

The DMCA is an international agreement, not a google or youtube policy. By sending a DMCA take down, Sony has made a legal statement that they do for a fact own the content. That is the reason you can sue some one for filing a false take down notice. They have falsely claimed copyright, in writing, of something they don't own and likely for reasons of making money.... The DMCA is a messed up treaty, but it's what we have and is law nearly every where in the world

- - - Updated - - -


shouldnīt any proof of rights be proven from e.t.c Sony in which case they do send such proof in the first round.....

The DMCA is an international agreement, not a google or youtube policy. By sending a DMCA take down, Sony has made a legal statement that they do for a fact own the content. That is the reason you can sue some one for filing a false take down notice. They have falsely claimed copyright, in writing, of something they don't own and likely for reasons of making money.... The DMCA is a messed up treaty, but it's what we have and is law nearly every where in the world

bazsa73
04-08-2014, 12:06 AM
Threatening prospects.

Surrealist.
04-08-2014, 05:56 AM
By the way of it is already back up. As expected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRsGyueVLvQ

GandB
04-08-2014, 07:59 AM
It should have never been taken down in the first place. The Blender Foundation isn't small; how fast is it going to be rectified for a smaller group or single artist? I hope they don't let up on this.

RebelHill
04-08-2014, 08:34 AM
The DMCA is an international agreement.... The DMCA is a messed up treaty, but it's what we have and is law nearly every where in the world

Umm... no its not... its an US law that has no power beyond US borders (though it does ratify into US law certain provisions of international copyright treaties)... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act

As for the whole delibeerate/mistake thing... ofc its a mistake. Large media owning companies like Sony, etc, have so MUCH content in their posession, and there are so MANY places where it could be "infringed" that there is no way in hell they have actual people sitting around, combng websites and typing out notices to be sent... it would take an ARMY of personnel. Rather, its done through automation, and all an automated system can do is attempt to match certain "features" to make a decision of a match or not.

Its the same reason Amazon always send me "you may be interested in" emails for products Ive already bought... AI is imperfect.

GandB
04-08-2014, 10:25 AM
In order for the automation to work; wouldn't Sony have to input Sintel into the database? In doing so, they've taken claim of work that is not their own. Otherwise, how in the world would it pop up? It doesn't really matter to me, if they used it in a demonstration; if something like that can cause a take-down of other's works, you shouldn't be allowed to use anything like the word "Sintel" in your database for word-search purposes (linked to the AI).

cresshead
04-08-2014, 10:30 AM
seeing as i've been having a lot of fun with fur in Blender 2.70 i decided to donate $224 to the gooseberry project today...sony...go away..you smell !

RebelHill
04-08-2014, 10:36 AM
Sure... the inclusion is quite possibly attributable to human error... they have the work in their "catalogue" (having used it for demo material), and the fact of its ownership/origin isnt properly communicated down the chain. Its also most likely that its done by content matching (image/sound) rather than just names... but as for not being allowed to enter a given name (presuming thats the culprit)... I hardly think that's fair... as titles for things CANT be copyrighted. In such a case you may well have different independent works which share a title, but which are still separate entities. A good example is the homeland debacle... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_(Cory_Doctorow_novel) Given a different title, Fox's system would've ignored it... but what can you do otherwise?

Mistakes happen.

50one
04-08-2014, 11:56 AM
You guys still thinking that there's somme muppet working some where in the cubicle at sony's office and he or she is submitting a random videos on youtube to be taken down? Nope, it's an automated process, bots are sampling videos, music and look for audio patterns that they're matching to a database, there is a slight chance that there are certain frequencies that are very similar to something that sony released and some bot matched it, that's it, nothing sinister I'm afraid.

Try encoding some sony's trailer onto ps3, you'll get nice pop up window and won't be able to watch it.

I think that there might be something sampled in the audio that has something to do with sony or as I said just pure coincidence in matching the entry from their db.

dickbill
04-08-2014, 02:04 PM
Millions of music tunes and movies have been produced and I bet the big corporations own most of the rights. Now even if you produce everything by yourself, the chances that you may have been influenced by these past productions, and that you reproduce them, even unconsciously, is very high. Someone mentioned that Sony owns the rights for 'Train your Dragon', but the Sony dragon is itself inspired by the medieval concept of the Dragon.
So, next time somebody is going to create a 'St. Michel strikes the Dragon' scene, he is going to be sued by a Sony bot?
Eventually, the bot may search on google images and find that the Cathedrals with St. Michael sculptures break Sony's copyrights? it doesn't make any sense. But those issues are now common, for example in DNA sequence ownership, you may not own some of your own DNA.
There may be another reason and that is that these copyright infringements, frivolous as they seem, may actually serve a hidden political purpose. Let's turn France and the recent case of an black humorist, called Dieudonne, who constantly challenges the French government on the excessive power of the French Jewish lobby. Dieudonne has not broken any law, yet he is clearly persecuted, sometimes directly (the recently appointed French prime minister has publically declared a fatwa against Dieudonne) and sometimes indirectly by the French Tax authorities, in Al Capone style since they can't put him down otherwise. The attacks against freedom of opinions in France go so far that is not impossible to imagine the French government could use some copyrights infringements to shut down dissident voices. And that has resulted in the mass migration of many 'dissident' videos from dailymotion and Youtube to Russian .rutube. People fear that so much now, they don't even consider to post it on Youtube (not mentioning dailymotion) , they know they are going to be censured, or they videos removed, for any LEGAL reason and so they directly go to .rutube.
That's where we are.

cresshead
04-08-2014, 02:16 PM
youtube needs competition, i'd like more choice when searching for videos and places to post videos.

the youtube monopoly is not good for them or us long term.

RebelHill
04-08-2014, 02:48 PM
Dieudonne, who constantly challenges the French government on the excessive power of the French Jewish lobby... not impossible to imagine the French government could use some copyrights infringements to shut down dissident voices.

A frenchman promoting anti-semitism... I can only imagine goebbels will rise from his grave to file suit any day now.

dickbill
04-08-2014, 04:30 PM
A frenchman promoting anti-semitism... I can only imagine goebbels will rise from his grave to file suit any day now.He could, but Dieudonne is black. Anybody who defends him is an anti-Semite, anybody who attacks him is a Racist. Both sides have their defense league and sue for money

Chuck
04-18-2014, 03:09 PM
That's a gorgeous piece of animation work....

Surrealist.
04-19-2014, 08:25 PM
Indeed. Can not agree more. They always manage to push the limits of Blender. (with the help of on site programers of course...lol) but the art is always top notch in my opinion.

LW_Will
04-20-2014, 12:35 AM
That's a gorgeous piece of animation work....

I could not agree more. I had dismissed the movie as an elaborate product demo. I could not be more wrong.


Indeed. Can not agree more. They always manage to push the limits of Blender. (with the help of on site programers of course...lol) but the art is always top notch in my opinion.

Yes... pushing and providing even more. A tonne of Python scripts to improve the actual system. Might be worth a closer look...

Surrealist.
04-21-2014, 08:02 AM
Yeah.... and Rigify was one of them both in BBB and Sintel. :)

jburford
04-25-2014, 02:24 PM
The attacks against freedom of opinions in France go so far that is not impossible to imagine the French government could use some copyrights infringements to shut down dissident voices. And that has resulted in the mass migration of many 'dissident' videos from .

That's where we are.

Actually, not very "French" at all. Very common place in the majority of the so called "Free World", also very reminiscent of the George W. Bush years. . . .

or the American and British governments in the 50's overthrowing the Iranian Free Leader because he dared stand up against the British exploiting of the Oil Fields.

In most all countries, those speaking up against the system, are on the short end of the Stick. Martin Luther King, could not be stopped with his Freedom Speeches and Walks until a "lone" (yeah right) gunman shot him down.

Its a sad world, and it always has been.