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hrgiger
11-19-2003, 08:44 PM
Well, LW8 is almost upon us and I thought I would post the results (at least up until today) of the LW8 feature request polls that you'll find at the top of the list in the feature request forum. There is a total of 1,341 votes. Here goes:

Improved Softbodies/rigidbodies: 132 Votes

3D Paint: 126 Votes

Faster Rendering, esp GI: 119 Votes

Auto Character Rigging: 79 Votes

NGons/Adaptive Sub--d's: 75 Votes

Muscle system/skinning tools: 69 Votes

Photometric support: 69 Votes

Advanced Fluid Dynamics: 64 Votes

Edge Weighting: 57 Votes

Full Hair system: 53 Votes

Instancing of Geometry: 53 Votes

Better Large Obj hadling in Modeler: 53 Votes

Onion Skinning/Ghosting: 52 Votes

SoftShadows for all light types: 43 Votes

Render in non-camera views: 43 Votes

Switch cameras during rendering: 43 Votes

Pause Render/Save Partial Render: 36 Votes

Crowd Simulation/AI: 31 Votes

True SSS (Sub surface scattering): 28 Votes

Free Lightwave T-shirt: 28 Votes

Improved Manuals, no pages falling out: 24 Votes

Basic sound rendering support/mixer: 19 Votes

Motion Tracking: 17 Votes

I don't care, just ship it already: 15 Votes

More Presets: 13 Votes

Well, at least the item most requested we are definately getting.
It was hinted at in 3D world that rendering speed has been increased but no details on that yet.
No auto-character setup (that we know of) but with the new bone tools, it seems feasible that we can create our own custom rigs and insert them in other characters, not to mention, setup will be a breeze compared to before.
As far as the other things, who knows?
I find it interesting that the free Lightwave T-shirt tied or beat out 6 other items...
:)

SLAYER
11-19-2003, 09:19 PM
I vote for anything new to Modeler and the better Manual.

Better yet, manuals (plural). Break the Manuals down like MAX and include a get started or Tutorial book like MAX as well.

I've said all this plenty of times before, so I'll just stop there.

cresshead
11-20-2003, 05:11 AM
inspire has a reference manual and a tutorial manual...so we could go back to that style rather than a single 1500 page door stop we have at present...i'm really looking forward to some decent help system actually rather than a book.

steve g

Matt
11-20-2003, 07:10 AM
3D painting has to be the last thing on my list!

Speed, speed, speed and accurate non-GI lighting please!

:D

deemon
11-20-2003, 09:33 AM
I do hope that Newtek take such polls with a grain of salt; almost all the good and experienced Lightwave artists I know neither participate in the public discussions much, nor is their priority list any similar to what this poll indicates.

hrgiger
11-20-2003, 09:57 AM
I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. So you're saying only the most talented Lightwave users are allowed to make feature requests or have any input into new features?

But I would argue that there are plenty of very talented artists here who participate in the forums.

deemon
11-20-2003, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by hrgiger
I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. So you're saying only the most talented Lightwave users are allowed to make feature requests or have any input into new features?

But I would argue that there are plenty of very talented artists here who participate in the forums.

I'm not saying that there are no talented artists participating in the forums. I'm saying that there are tons more who do not participate. And yes, I do think that the more practical experience you've got, the more valid your request about a certain feature.

hrgiger
11-20-2003, 10:29 AM
Well, we certainly would not want to ask for or implement any new features before we get the input from those mysterious talented users...
Feature requests are for all users.
And I don't think that this poll or any other individual request is guiding Newtek's development team. But if you want to have your voice heard, or have others echo your request, it seems to me the place to do it is right here on Newtek's site.

Matt
11-20-2003, 11:02 AM
Anyone who has bought LightWave has helped fund future development, they should be entitled to express their wishes for future versions, despite whether they are 'high end' or not.

NewTek are bright enough to filter the silly requests from the sane ones.

The more the merrier I say!

:)

hrgiger
11-20-2003, 11:16 AM
Thank you Matt. That's basically what I was trying to say.

deemon
11-20-2003, 11:18 AM
> Anyone who has bought LightWave has helped fund future development, they should be entitled to express their wishes for future versions, despite whether they are 'high end' or not.

Of course.

>NewTek are bright enough to filter the silly requests from the sane ones.

That wasn't quite the case in the past, judging by the amount bugs and half-working features that haven't been touched for years despite all the requests. Hope the new development team will change that.

mlowes
11-20-2003, 11:51 AM
In my experience I agree with deemon "almost all the good and experienced Lightwave artists I know neither participate in the public discussions much, nor is their priority list any similar to what this poll indicates."

But one colleague of mine who is the best lightwave artist I know, posts in public discussions a hundred times more than I do (I really should post more), and I think really helps out the community with learning lightwave.

In the present and even more so in the past, deemon's comment holds true. But there seems to exist a growing trend of professional users becoming more and more a part of the public online community, and helping out users of all levels. It's been pretty cool to watch it happening over the years.

On a side note, initially I thought it would be a waste of time to implement a FULL featured 3D paint module into lightwave, and I still do (considering the 3rd party solutions already available). But a tiny little 3D paint module that just let you paint on the color channel with simple brushes, either on the mesh directly, or on top of the uv's would be great for just roughing out a preview of what an object is supposed to look like. Would be awesome to scribble a rough coloring over proxy objects for animating, or even for painting targets to highlight certain areas of a mesh for visibility when trying to trouble shoot certain kinds of fx, when animating etc. Would be much more useful for these tasks then vertex painting.

Nemoid
11-20-2003, 03:16 PM
I think very talented pro's have to post their needs like other users as well, if they have some time. they also could explain better Lw pros and cons in certain areas making the whole community more aware of how the 3D industry goes and how Lw fits into it.
if they didn't post, and don't like the list of the poll, that' their own fault.

stone
11-20-2003, 04:21 PM
if they didn't post, and don't like the list of the poll, that' their own fault.

it might be their fault, but it will be our problem - i do tend to agree that such polls usally marks out the buzzword features. that might be all those newbies who doesnt really know what is going on and then just votes for the buzzwords they have heard. also the polls usally lack a bunch of options which then obviously gets no votes but might be as usafull or more so than any other listed. and finally most users have no realistic view of what a given feature requires to implement, nor how it would actually work when implemented.

/stone

hrgiger
11-20-2003, 05:24 PM
Stone,

It doesn't really have much to do with leaving out important features. I made the poll in the first place by browsing through the forums and picking out all the things that came up most often. It wasn't a what is most needed in Lightwave poll, it was if you had to choose one thing out of this particular list, which would you like to see implemented. I didn't put obvious things like merge modeler and layout, optimizing code, squashing bugs because this was a feature list and not a maintenance one.

cresshead
11-20-2003, 05:59 PM
a few things i'd "like" to see in lightwave woud be:

1.proceduals textures in the viewport [like max]
2.bucket renderer
3.opacity maps working in the viewport [like max..again..sorry!]
4.an audio modifier that can drive via a wave file a object in either a keyframe, deformation or a lipsync morph role .
5.copying a object by shift-draging in the viewport
6.live instances and references in modeler and layout
7. a substantial increase in the preset surfaces that ship with lightwave
8.online searchable help system
9.a matte surface/shader for compositing
10.a single pass antialising option
11. a bevel tool that works on multiple [connected] polys.
12. a bend/twist/taper tool that has an inthe viewport gizmo in modeler
13.an onscreen rotate gizmo for percentages and snapping to whole numbers or 5% chunks like that of maya/max and *ux.

like i said..these are some things i'd "like" to see...they don't stop me from working in lightwave but would be nice to have still the same!

steve g

colkai
11-21-2003, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by cresshead
a few things i'd "like" to see in lightwave woud be:

2.bucket renderer

steve g

Ya got a job that needs a lot of buckets there Steve?
Couldn't ya just clone 'em? <gd&r> :p

cresshead
11-21-2003, 09:17 AM
ha ha ha!....
noooooooooooooooooooooo.

a renderer that can render in small areas known as "buckets" like that of final render, vray, brazil and mental ray.


all i need now is a "spade renderer"

:rolleyes:

steve g

Matt
11-21-2003, 11:13 AM
I had no idea what a 'bucket' renderer was either!

What do you mean my 'small' areas exactly? Do you mean micro-displacement or distributed rendering (or neither!)

:confused:

colkai
11-21-2003, 11:19 AM
My guess is...
Sort of like an advanced limted region, where you can have sections of a frame render, presumably across machines?

As you can see, I have ab-so-lutely no idea what Steve means :D

cresshead
11-21-2003, 11:48 AM
here we go!

What is Bucket rendering?
A lot of confusion is going on with the term "Bucket Rendering" many users think that this term describes a special rendering method or a special algorithm how images are rendered. Some developers have (mis-)use the term to explain why their rendering system creates better images. Bucket Rendering is nothing more than a description of the way that a frame buffer or image is subdivided. The well known scanline rendering method for example, uses "scanlines" to render an image. Single or multiple scanlines of the image may be rendered in one go. Also, scanlines may be split amongst multiple CPUs for multi processor computers. This is what 3ds max's renderer usually does. In contrast to scanlines, Buckets are not "lines", they are rectangular (usually quadratic e.g. 32x32, 64x64 pixels) areas of the image to be rendered. Buckets have some advantages over scanlines when load balancing and network distribution is involved. finalRender's raytracer fully supports bucket rendering and for future versions of finalRender you can expect to see distributed network rendering at its best.

Nemoid
11-21-2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by stone
it might be their fault, but it will be our problem - i do tend to agree that such polls usally marks out the buzzword features. that might be all those newbies who doesnt really know what is going on and then just votes for the buzzwords they have heard. also the polls usally lack a bunch of options which then obviously gets no votes but might be as usafull or more so than any other listed. and finally most users have no realistic view of what a given feature requires to implement, nor how it would actually work when implemented.

/stone

I don't think that HR Giger is this kinda user. most of the features he listed are useful things, not eyecandy.

however, if these Pros posted some requests or correction or explainations I think it would be great. they didn't. for this mere. reason they IMO have no right to complain about the poll now.
I don't want to offend anyone. but sometimes speaking, critiquing and asking is better than stay and only whatch things happen.

deemon
11-21-2003, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by Nemoid

however, if these Pros posted some requests or correction or explainations I think it would be great. they didn't.

They did that quite a few times, just probably without letting you know.

Rei
11-21-2003, 03:07 PM
cresshead: i know that you can drive animation from MIDI files, because of what they are. I remember a famous animation was done with this (was in the 3dWorld top 100 or 50 or whatever).

So its not impossible, however to do it from a wav file would work from freq changes and amplitude changes, not from the original score.

Im being picky, this is probably what you wanted anyway!

McLeft
11-21-2003, 05:46 PM
I think very talented pro's have to post their needs like other users as well

For some reason long time Lightwave users get attacked when they post about bugs and half-working features.

Lightwave has number of bugs that come from version to version and dont get fixed. Just for instance "Image Filters" applied to image wont work when you render with LWSN, "Animated Filters" check box doesnt work when you re-open scene.When you do "Replace" in "Image Editor" few times in row, you end up with "killed" textures on random surface channels... an so on...

I mean ppl that push software hard know more about it's limitations and shortcomings.

Nemoid
11-22-2003, 03:12 AM
Trust me, I know these and other bugs of Lw, just because I have some great Lw pro user for friends and I talk to them often about these probs.

however, I never saw great professionals starting a whole thread about these bugs, making the whole community aware of them.
since I think the whole community have to help Nt in developing Lw better,thats what I mean when I say that's better to post than stay and see.
the only old user I saw debating greatly about Lw probs was Jabba.

maybe they sent their requests directly to Nt through other channels, though.
Hope that the new team will fix most of these bugs soon. that , unfortunately wasn't the case of the old team IMO.

hrgiger
11-22-2003, 05:35 AM
Besides, the forum isn't the place to post bug reports. Newtek I'm pretty sure has a email address specifically for bug reports.