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Sebasvideo
03-04-2014, 02:27 AM
:cursin::compbeati:cursin::bangwall:

I spent hours yesterday going through over 380 surfaces from the Video Copilot Metropolitan package (which I suggest you only buy if you intend to use in After Effects, since it's a nightmare to use in Lightwave) and unchecking "invert layer" in most of them, which for some reason is checked when importing the FBX files (6 in total) and also adding the missing reflection texture in most of them as well. Then today when I open the project and switch on VPR I noticed that many of the buildings still had the luminosity layer inverted, so I started Shift+clicking all of them and other very small things like antennas and satellites on roofs to fix them. This surprised me because I was sure that yesterday I had gone through every single one of them, but I thought I had missed some.

So tonight I spent hours fixing them, not only unchecking invert layer, but several other things. Very often, every five minutes or so, I did an Alt+S, which saves both the scene and the objects, and it asks for confirmation, so I assumed it saved everything. So at one point I wanted to open another scene and I closed Layout, opened the other scene, closed it and opened the city scene again. When switching to VPR, I find that not only several buildings still had the layers inverted, but also that the other changes I had made, some adjusting the amount of diffuse, opacity of certain layers, etc, none of it had been saved. :bangwall: :cursin: :bangwall: :compbeati

So what's the problem here? Could it be that the objects are not in the objects folder, because when importing from FBXs Lightwave puts them inside the scenes folder inside their own folder, and the textures in another folder? But still, they are located inside the content folder. Besides, how is it that most of the surfaces I edited yesterday saved the changes, but some didn't?

creacon
03-04-2014, 03:11 AM
Write protected files, maybe?

creacon

Ztreem
03-04-2014, 03:17 AM
The problem is that when you load fbx or obj and then save objects it doesn't save the objects as they are not in native format, you have to save out the object as lwo's first for it to function.
This should be reported as a bug, I think.

inkpen3d
03-04-2014, 03:40 AM
Last June I reported serious problems with the "Save and Exit Options" panel functionality (see Case 62558: https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?62558_17mjs3ggs5j3nuvp). I've just checked, and this fault report is STILL flagged as Open!

The problems I reported seem to be very similar - probably having the same root cause - as those you have just encountered.

Given the fundamental impact that this bug can have on people's work flow (i.e. you can loose hours of work or get messed up scenes w.r.t. object versions) I am astounded that the LWDG have failed to wake up to the seriousness of the problem and address it with a sense of urgency!

Until the LWDG fix this problem once and for all, I would advise explicitly saving your scene and it's objects as separate operations.

I suspect that because people have got wise to the fact that only the explicit save operations are guaranteed to work, they don't bother to complain about the other options (e.g. "Save and Exit") misbehaving and the LWDG can blissfully carry on pretending the problem doesn't really exist or matter too much!

Regards,
Peter

EDIT: If what Ztreem says regarding FBX/OBJ is directly applicable to your situation, then that's the correct explanation. Sorry if I confused the situation! However, please be aware that the problems I've highlighted with the "Save and Exit" panel are STILL a potential pitfall and so be careful. Basically, don't trust the "Save and Exit" panel until it's fixed! Use either the explicit Save Scene and Save All Objects menu options, or more succinctly, the "Save ALL" option - this menu option works okay for scenes containing LWOs because it triggers separate save scene and save all objects operations - i.e. as though you'd done each of them manually.

Sebasvideo
03-04-2014, 10:01 AM
The problem is that when you load fbx or obj and then save objects it doesn't save the objects as they are not in native format, you have to save out the object as lwo's first for it to function.
This should be reported as a bug, I think.

That's not the case for FBX, when Lightwave opens a FBX it works like decompressing a zip file, it creates folders for objects, the scene, and the textures. The folder containing the objects is only LWOs.

- - - Updated - - -


Write protected files, maybe?

creacon

I don't think so, I thought about the same and checked all the LWOs but they're not read-only.

Sebasvideo
03-04-2014, 10:04 AM
Last June I reported serious problems with the "Save and Exit Options" panel functionality (see Case 62558: https://fogbugz.newtek.com/default.asp?62558_17mjs3ggs5j3nuvp). I've just checked, and this fault report is STILL flagged as Open!

The problems I reported seem to be very similar - probably having the same root cause - as those you have just encountered.

That's really bad. However in my case I was explicitly saving the scene and objects by doing ALT+S, and each time it would ask me for confirmation on overwriting the scene and then on saving all the objects. Then either before or after that I would press SHIFT+S to save a scene incremental, but that has no influence on the objects themselves as they are separate files.

The worst part about this is that now that I know of this behavior I'm going to have to close Layout and open the project again, and it's a project that takes about 30 seconds to load and then 20 more to redraw the screen because of the number of buildings. That is not a problem since I tried this in Modo and it slows down to a crawl, but it's terrible that Lightwave is not dependable on a simple save objects operation.

Sebasvideo
03-04-2014, 12:00 PM
One thing I realized was that when I first started working on repairing all the surfaces, when I would do an ALT+S and wait for everything to save, if I closed Layout it would just close after a few seconds. However, while I was working on the batch that didn't get saved, even if I did an ALT+S it would ask me to save when exiting. Of course I still clicked on "save & exit" but the changes, as I found out later, were not saved.

After typing my original post, after I started repairing the surfaces a third time, the same thing happened, even though I had hit ALT+S several times, when exiting Layout it still asked me if I wanted to save. But I saw this item on the top right that says "Save all changes" which was unchecked by default. So I checked it, and since then all the changes got saved properly.

However, this is a gross failure from Newtek and one that probably costs users hours of wasted time. You think that as long as you're saving every few minutes you're safe, and if you click "save & exit" when closing Layout, you're also safe. But you have to check on something called "Save all changes" to make sure everything is saved? That doesn't make an ounce of sense to me. When you do an ALT+S it's supposed to save all changes. When you click on "Save & Exit" it's supposed to save all changes. Then why is there a "save all changes" checkmark? It's absolutely confusing and a gross failure in design.