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kopperdrake
02-14-2014, 05:35 AM
We've had one of these threads a while ago, but with the borked forum search I can't find it. One of the best I remember was a client wanting a render "about 20% more mysterious".

I have a new one, in hot off the press. A client just asked me:

"Is there a setting on your rendering programme that gives 'a more softer countryside type appearance'?"

Go on - indulge me - give me some of your best client requests.

zardoz
02-14-2014, 05:44 AM
a regular one: "I need more magic!"

50one
02-14-2014, 05:44 AM
I've been asked once for a "white rounded rectangle on white background jpg"

oh and the classic "Bigger logo:D".

probiner
02-14-2014, 05:48 AM
Oh so you don't know: http://clientsfromhell.net/
:)

To me the regular things is them wanting plastic materials almost without reflections. So reflections and specular passes are a common practice.

Simon-S
02-14-2014, 06:00 AM
I had a client that requested happiness levels of a 3d character to be increased by 5%

spherical
02-14-2014, 06:02 AM
What we get is: "We need all of your source files."

Waves of light
02-14-2014, 06:04 AM
"Is there a setting on your rendering programme that gives 'a more softer countryside type appearance'?"
.

I am way too busy to be viewing this thread, let alone having the time to laugh so much.... oh, pmsl.

What was your response?



What we get is: "We need all of your source files."

Oh that old chestnut. Please see T&Cs.

Danner
02-14-2014, 06:40 AM
Just yesterday, client said: "give it more atmosphere" And no, it's not a planet. (blank stare.. blink, blink)

JonW
02-14-2014, 06:46 AM
All you have to do is cut the foreground out to see the background!

JonW
02-14-2014, 06:49 AM
Physical architectural model. A week later client returns with the model with a very precise request. Can you shrink the model to 94%, it is too large for the site!

Danner
02-14-2014, 07:37 AM
For a change I'm in the other side of this source files dilema, A client had still renders and wanted them animated, the design studio doesn't do animation, so we had to ask for the source files or we'd have to recreate everything in a very tight deadline.. The design studio was cool about it tho and after some negotiation we got the source files.

zardoz
02-14-2014, 08:37 AM
we got source files once or twice...subpatched mesh completely frozen at a very high level and texture maps with 256x256!! nice or what?

djwaterman
02-14-2014, 10:05 AM
A lot of those vague requests like 50% more happier or up the coolness by 11 are actually quite reasonable if you realize they are coming from someone struggling to get across what they see in their mind but don't quite have the language to say it, those sort of things don't bother me at all, it's the totally impossible ones like JonW's make the physical model shrink by 94% that I consider crazy, usually said by a client that is paying very little on a tight deadline that you should of said no to in the first place.

I had a Bee Movie toy figure that had been scanned by a laser into the computer to make a high density mesh, this was before the days of re-topology I guess, and I had to texture map it by selecting polygons and giving them different surfaces, thousands of tiny little tri-polys. It was ridiculous and I can't believe I went ahead doing it like a good little slave

kopperdrake
02-14-2014, 10:24 AM
What was your response?

Some great ones here!

I played safe and tried to figure out what he meant - ie more of a natural media look, or softer lighting. It turns out the natural media look was it, after showing him some samples - so everyone's happy and the job just landed :D

But the email trail between various people involved, having seen the manipulated images, mentions somewhere "The power of Photoshop never ceases to amaze me" - I haven't the heart to tell them Photoshop never got a look in!

jeric_synergy
02-14-2014, 10:34 AM
??? What is a "natural media look"???

ernpchan
02-14-2014, 10:43 AM
You're doing what I'm saying but not what I want.

jeric_synergy
02-14-2014, 10:46 AM
You're doing what I'm saying but not what I want.
Wow. Just wow. --Client punching time.

ernpchan
02-14-2014, 11:05 AM
Wow. Just wow. --Client punching time.

This happened to a co-worker that was on a project. He was eventually removed from it...but he was happy about that.

Waves of light
02-14-2014, 11:42 AM
we got source files once or twice...subpatched mesh completely frozen at a very high level and texture maps with 256x256!! nice or what?

That's just playing hard to get. When it comes to source files (I mostly work in 2D, so Illustrator, InDesign) I'm very careful when a client asks for the source files... I mean, what else do they want them for, unless it's to redo something, or change something. But I guess it depends on whether or not you also want them to return for more work.


I had a Bee Movie toy figure that had been scanned by a laser into the computer to make a high density mesh, this was before the days of re-topology I guess, and I had to texture map it by selecting polygons and giving them different surfaces, thousands of tiny little tri-polys. It was ridiculous and I can't believe I went ahead doing it like a good little slave

I cannot imagine how knackered your eyes must have felt.


Some great ones here!

I played safe and tried to figure out what he meant - ie more of a natural media look, or softer lighting. It turns out the natural media look was it, after showing him some samples - so everyone's happy and the job just landed :D

But the email trail between various people involved, having seen the manipulated images, mentions somewhere "The power of Photoshop never ceases to amaze me" - I haven't the heart to tell them Photoshop never got a look in!

Natural media look saves the day again, lol. So lots of whites and brightness then?


You're doing what I'm saying but not what I want.

I used to work with a sales person who was like that. He was all talk and would come out with Suger Honey Ice Tea like that all the time. Would have gladly spent 20 mins in a ring with him. "Quite your Jibba Jabba fool"

jeric_synergy
02-14-2014, 12:47 PM
This happened to a co-worker that was on a project. He was eventually removed from it...but he was happy about that.
I have actually told clients that I'm not telepathic.

JonW
02-14-2014, 01:27 PM
You're doing what I'm saying but not what I want.
Physical models again:

You are not building what I want!

We are building exactly what is on the drawings!

This when on hour after hour. We went through every item one by one. Everything on the drawings was built to the mm, exactly what they wanted, on the drawings!




Customer: Please mark on the drawings where the problems are! (so we could actually build the model)

Me: Right! I am very good at understand drawings & when through 20 AO drawing with a thick red marker. After a day putting "red clouds" around every problem there was a sea of blood! It was challenging to see the black ink due to the red ink! It was seriously impressive & also the look on the architect's face as we calmly pointed to each issue.

The job was worth it if they fixed the drawings. We actually got good drawings eventually & build it.




Architect commenting on the model he commissioned.

Is that what it looks like!




Architect brings around a cardboard model showing how the complex roof should be built.

The minute he was out the door we jumped on the model as it was so useless! (kindergarten kids could do better)




Last but not least. Could you mirror the building, it would look better on the site!

Lewis
02-14-2014, 03:12 PM
Here is one from few years back

Arch Viz project idea was to to model/render several 5-6 storeys buildings and incorporate them into panoramic photo provided by them to blend into among other buildings/houses/surroundings (nice sunny day at sea coast)

After my last render/composite for final shoot I got this: "well, now you made it too realistic, we can't notice difference to recognize which are our buildings" :D :bangwall:.

Thomas Helzle
02-14-2014, 03:13 PM
Clear 100% transparent Glass Object on white background: "Now pump in more light, it really has to shine"...

:screwy:

Back when I worked on physical architectural models, we built a huge office building and one day three architects came in to decide on the cotton-ball-trees. They discussed the colour for a long time and finally came up with "Make it a courageous grey!" (german "Ein mutiges Grau").

:screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

;-)

Cheers,

Tom

JonW
02-14-2014, 05:42 PM
"Make it a courageous grey!"

Brilliant!

shrox
02-14-2014, 06:31 PM
Can you make my grandkid less ugly? (I used to do local commercials, they always want the grandkids in it who then mumble the phone number...)

Waves of light
02-15-2014, 03:29 AM
"Make it a courageous grey!" (german "Ein mutiges Grau").

Some people get paid way too much money!

Mastoy
02-15-2014, 08:30 AM
Client : "There's a mirror on that wall"
Me : "OK, but there's nothing around this mirror, just white, what do you want it to reflect ?"
Client : "Nothing ! It's a MIRROR"
I actually had to ask him to find a picture of a mirror on the net, to make him understand that "Nothing" is not a color

Mastoy
02-15-2014, 08:33 AM
I also had to create the mother of all surfaces, the famous "make it reflective, not shiny, mirror-like but transparent and tainted"

And I've stopped counting the "I want the WOW effect"

Sensei
02-15-2014, 03:45 PM
What we get is: "We need all of your source files."

If I would be hiring any 3d artist it would be absolute "must have" in contract..

When any programmer is hired to write program, he is supplying client with source files not just executable (which will sooner or later stop working, as usual with software).

spherical
02-15-2014, 04:32 PM
If I would be hiring any 3d artist it would be absolute "must have" in contract..

When any programmer is hired to write program, he is supplying client with source files not just executable (which will sooner or later stop working, as usual with software).

Well, software is a bit different from imagery. The intents are not the same. The use is not the same. The operability is not the same.

That said, in any case, if you are getting paid to provide source (which in the case of software, that is the point), then there is no issue. It is when the client, who originally wants to reproduce an image, thinks that they are also entitled to the original, that things go awry. The former is called "Reproduction Rights", the latter "Buyout". If they contract for repro rights, the fee is far lower. The issue of the original never comes into the deal at all. The contract states what they are going to get. If it isn't in there, they don't get it. I don't specify that they don't be my Corvette. Shouldn't have to. Not part of the deal.

Yes, it's good to spell it all out but, after the many years of being in this business, my contract has grown large enough. I tend not to stuff the kitchen sink in there if I don't have to. So, there are contract versions designed for each intent. The Buyout contract is actually shorter. They're paying a big dollar for everything. If I know going in that the original is to be transferred, there's no problem. It's when they try to slide it in that causes issues.

Here's a case in point that directly relates. Client contracted for us to create images of a building that he barely was able to scratch out on napkins. Extremely basic information. He would be using the images to get funding with which to build, so needed concept shots. A LOT had to be extrapolated from that remedial information in order to do an actual building design that could be built and look good. We even came up with many, many allegorical concepts in the design that directly pertained to the building's purpose that he never even thought of. They made the whole project sing and I was happy to offer these contributions.

I decided to do the illustrations using LightWave, not as 2D acrylic paintings. My choice. A) It was a good project with which to learn more of LightWave, B) I could refine viewing angles to get a better final image. When the project was done, he was delighted. As a method to further learn LightWave, I decided to explore some animations, rendered them and put them on the website for him to show, gratis. I had already done way more in designing the whole building in the first place; down to every last moulding and hinge. That I chose to do more, far past the original contract, was my prerogative. I considered it getting paid to learn LightWave and that in itself was something of payment; payment that would reap benefits down the road. He got far more for his money than he ever expected.

Months later, he contacts us and says: "How about you just pop that model over here. We especially need the animation file. My architect would like to do some things with it." How would you feel?

jeric_synergy
02-15-2014, 04:40 PM
It's when they try to slide it in that causes issues.
That's so true in so many areas of life.

spherical
02-15-2014, 05:02 PM
Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, knowhatimean, knowhatimean?

zardoz
02-15-2014, 06:36 PM
Some time ago a client asked for a character that I modelled... well the first problem was that I used lw and they used max... they decided to use lw for it and they got a lw artist on the phone talking to me...well that character was my only experience using the Art mode on G2 by Worley...I don't know if you guys remember this but we simply used a painted circle to texture the object... this character was a baby elephant and I painted 3 or 4 circles in photoshop to texture the skin, diaper... Imagine how much time I took to explain the guy how I textured the thing... everybody on the room was smiling because they knew how I did the texturing and they were waiting for their reaction. It ended with "so you don't have maps for it right?"

kopperdrake
02-16-2014, 04:10 PM
??? What is a "natural media look"???

Watercolour/pastels etc

sami
02-16-2014, 05:22 PM
a colleague sent me this, this morning:

http://i.imgur.com/CHIAqGp.jpg

jeric_synergy
02-16-2014, 05:28 PM
Watercolour/pastels etc
And you didn't do it in post?

shrox
02-18-2014, 10:09 AM
a colleague sent me this, this morning:

http://i.imgur.com/CHIAqGp.jpg

Excellent.

mummyman
02-18-2014, 10:35 AM
Client asked for: Less Twerking

Andy Webb
02-18-2014, 10:50 AM
Rendering is sometimes a big issue with clients, they just don't get it. I've had clients ask me why can't I do it in Photoshop then I won't need to render it...

Sometimes, when I have done a job in Photoshop, they then of course want to look at the scene from a different angle and can't understand why they can't.

Andy Webb
02-18-2014, 10:56 AM
"Do this job for peanuts and there will be plenty more well paid work we can give you..."

There never is and you never hear from them again!

JonW
02-18-2014, 12:50 PM
I need to see more (wide angle) & make everything bigger (telephoto)!




I need to see more of the other side as well!

spherical
02-18-2014, 02:19 PM
Yeah, similar to the old dangling a carrot that someone else will pay down the line because you did a great job for us: "You'll get a lot of exposure." People have died from exposure.

If I had $10 for every clueless clown who thought (s)he was the first to think of that one, I and my SO could go to Disneyland and stay at the Grand Californian for a month.

DrStrik9
02-18-2014, 02:33 PM
"I know it's a letter-sized page, but I WANT IT BIGGER!" ... this leads to the only possible solution: type, image, logo that are literally cut off by page edges. ... "What happened? I said I wanted it bigger, not cut off!"

Sometimes you just have to give them what they ask for, if only to show them how ridiculous their request was.

mummyman
02-18-2014, 03:02 PM
"I know it's a letter-sized page, but I WANT IT BIGGER!" ... this leads to the only possible solution: type, image, logo that are literally cut off by page edges. ... "What happened? I said I wanted it bigger, not cut off!"

Sometimes you just have to give them what they ask for, if only to show them how ridiculous their request was.

Classic! And so true...

JonW
02-18-2014, 03:12 PM
The walls are not the correct colour!

Which walls aren't correct?

These, these & these, & this large featureless wall varies in colour a lot!

So you mean the shadows & the highlight areas?

Yes!



Has happened with 3d & physical models. One client I took the site building out from between the surrounding buildings, he held the swatch up against every side of the model. The colour was perfect. I was impressed with myself as matching spray paint colours is usually nightmare. More so because pigments in one paint look different to another paint. Then add to this the myriad of lighting possibilities which affect pigments differently.

I put the building back & he couldn't understand why the building looked different within the overall model. No matter how much you explain, there are some who simply have a kangaroo on the loose in the top paddock & there is no hope!

spherical
02-18-2014, 03:24 PM
AH, I remembered one! (I had blotted them out of my mind.) Used to do arch viz for an interior design firm, working in acrylic on cotton illustration board, long before 3D capability became possible for any of us. I presented a finished image and she said that the carpet was wrong. Too dark. I said it was correct, it is in shadow, so would be darker. To prove me wrong, she grabbed the swatch and the illustration and placed them on the floor in a shadowed area. "See?" I paused for a while, trying to stifle a guffaw, and cited the fact that the shadow in the illustration is built into the illustration, you can't place the shadowed carpet in the painting in a shadow. You place the illustration in the light and the swatch in the shadow to compare them. We went around for a while until she finally got the concept and gave up.

spherical
02-18-2014, 03:35 PM
I was impressed with myself as matching spray paint colours is usually nightmare. More so because pigments in one paint look different to another paint. Then add to this the myriad of lighting possibilities which affect pigments differently.

And this reminded me of another. We do art reproductions on a very high-end 11 color printer. Take great care in coming as close to the original as possible in hue and values, especially in shadow areas. We took one print into the gallery for approval and the owner took one look an rejected it; saying that the colors were way off. His office had garden variety green fluorescent lighting. Of course the color would be off. The pigment in the paints and the pigment in the inks react differently to a given radiation. Our calibration was done under a controlled light source and also out in the standard of all lighting standards, the Sun. Wouldn't accept it. We said to ourselves: "Good. One less pain in the @$$ clueless client to deal with."

Thomas Helzle
02-18-2014, 03:45 PM
LOL

That kind of thing always fascinated me. I think I have a relatively good grasp on reality and how things work and are connected, so when I meet people working in fields like architecture or visuals etc. who somehow seem totally disconnected from even the most simple concepts I'm always totally baffled and feel somehow helpless, since it's such basic stuff.
It's even worse when these people are somehow proud of their ignorance and completely uninterested in learning something new...


Not a client story but funny anyway:
Back when I did my civil service, a new guy came to the institution I worked at. In the evening we prepared dinner for the handicapped people living there and on that day we had spaghetti on the menu. So we thought we give him an easy job on his first day and sent him to the kitchen cooking spaghetti.
5 Minutes later he returned and asked, how to do that.
Slightly baffled we told him to put a large pot on the stove, fill it with water, put some salt in, wait until it cooks and then pour the spaghetti in etc.
He went back to the kitchen.
A while later he returned asking: "How do I know when the water is boiling?"

To this day I can't believe that you can grow up to be 18 or 20 years old, not knowing how water looks when it cooks.

Cheers,

Tom

JonW
02-18-2014, 04:54 PM
"How do I know when the water is boiling?"

That is even better than, I have cooked the egg for 15 minutes & it is still not soft!

Thomas Helzle
02-18-2014, 04:58 PM
that is even better than, i have cooked the egg for 15 minutes & it is still not soft!

lol

shrox
02-18-2014, 05:06 PM
Clients with Corel Draw files.

Megalodon2.0
02-18-2014, 06:07 PM
I have actually told clients that I'm not telepathic.

I like that!

I've said "Sorry, but our cyrstal ball is in the shop. You're going to have to EXPLAIN exactly what you want."

JonW
02-18-2014, 07:30 PM
I like that!

I've said "Sorry, but our cyrstal ball is in the shop. You're going to have to EXPLAIN exactly what you want."

I actually bought a crystal ball for that purpose and have told customers my crystal ball can't work out the problems either!

Davewriter
02-18-2014, 08:09 PM
In doing a live event with a band. It was a summer long gig and we were about half way through it. The lead sing wasn't happy with the way her monitor sounded - she needed to hear more presence . The tech on duty just could not make her happy. Finally she asked if the tech would call me in because I could always make it sound right. Between songs I whispered to her that the other tech just didn't know where the presence knob was. When I knew she was looking I just made a big show of twisting the imaginary "Presence"
She smiled.
All was good.

shrox
02-18-2014, 08:28 PM
In doing a live event with a band. It was a summer long gig and we were about half way through it. The lead sing wasn't happy with the way her monitor sounded - she needed to hear more presence . The tech on duty just could not make her happy. Finally she asked if the tech would call me in because I could always make it sound right. Between songs I whispered to her that the other tech just didn't know where the presence knob was. When I knew she was looking I just made a big show of twisting the imaginary "Presence"
She smiled.
All was good.

Awesome. Roadie and sound tech stories are the best stories.

jeric_synergy
02-18-2014, 09:55 PM
Working on a bank shoot. The director was getting REALLY fussy with a light, "put a half innit", "no, unpin it", "put a quarter scrim on it".... eventually the gaffer came over, gestured us away, shook the light stand slightly, asked "How's that?" "Perfect!"

bazsa73
02-18-2014, 11:23 PM
client sits beside me, seemingly impressed with the million colors on the palette. I liked the color we already had but she insists we fine-tune it. Okay, after a while she thinks she finds the proper color. When she looks away I undo or hit cancel, I dont remember. But she didn't notice, was thinking I used the color she preferred.

Megalodon2.0
02-18-2014, 11:31 PM
I actually bought a crystal ball for that purpose and have told customers my crystal ball can't work out the problems either!

Perfect. I'll get one of those AND a Magic 8 Ball - that will make'm think. :)

IdotT
02-19-2014, 01:51 AM
Dumb things i've done, own up to your muck ups.
First paid arch viz I was on A3, I drew it diagonally because it gave me more space on the paper and made his design look bigger, very proud of my picture I explained how this worked to the architect who smiled politely and paid me. The architect won the contract, but i doubt if it was because of my effort.
Once picked up a phone to a client who was after the number a group of fine artist to paint a mural and asked me if I knew them, I did and gave him their number, I also got brief from him drew out some design ideas and got them too him a day later. I got the job. After the work was completed I sat down had a few beers with the client and confessed to being colour blind and not being a member of the artists group. He rang me back three months later to say that the artist had just checked thier phone messages in the studio and wanted to know what the job was.
Did some work with a deaf group and then a radio interview , asked the sound engineer if he would speed up my voice as it would sound better for broadcast.

kadri
02-19-2014, 03:28 AM
The walls are not the correct colour!
Which walls aren't correct?
These, these & these, & this large featureless wall varies in colour a lot!
So you mean the shadows & the highlight areas?
Yes!
...

I had the exact problem in 1999 (Yeah i could not forget it).
After many attempts to make him understand it i gave up and got rid of all the shadows and asked if this is what he wants.
He said "yes" .
The renders looked absolutely bad! But he was happy :screwy:

hazmat777
02-19-2014, 06:49 AM
When I was selling Apple computers and other tech at a college store a girl came in with her parents and wanted to buy a MacBook. I explained all the usual info to them and near the end of the sale, the student asked me, "But with a Mac you can make better designs and stuff, right ? "

I instantly coughed and couldn't catch my breath for a minute and explained that the designs she'd make were up to her, not the Mac.

Andy Webb
02-19-2014, 08:37 AM
When I was selling Apple computers and other tech at a college store a girl came in with her parents and wanted to buy a MacBook. I explained all the usual info to them and near the end of the sale, the student asked me, "But with a Mac you can make better designs and stuff, right ? "

I instantly coughed and couldn't catch my breath for a minute and explained that the designs she'd make were up to her, not the Mac.

No that's not true, having a Mac makes you so much more creative. I've been told that so many times it must be true...

kopperdrake
02-20-2014, 04:03 AM
And you didn't do it in post?

Oh no - it was done in post, just not PhotoShop.

http://www.fotosketcher.com/

Ridiculously handy bit of software - the chap is a star!

kopperdrake
02-20-2014, 04:16 AM
"Do this job for peanuts and there will be plenty more well paid work we can give you..."

There never is and you never hear from them again!

Oh Andy - the number of times I've had that one. One only last year - I took a small job on as I sympathised with a start-up outfit, cut the cloth accordingly to help them out, and explained this to them. Whether they assumed I was just cheap I have no idea, but they came back a few months later - success happening for them, wanting more work doing for the same kind of costs. I explained that it was a helpful cost the first time round, but there was no way I could do regular work on that kind of basis.

Then they used the infamous line as their dangly carrot - "But we promise we'll come to you for *all* our design needs in the future."

Quick mental calculation on my part...

1) Lots of work in the future, all at a highly discounted rate = less time to work on clients who value the time and effort
2) Question to self: Do I currently have enough clients who value the time and effort we put in? Yes.
3) Answer to potential client = "No thank you - really, that is our hourly/daily price."
4) Answer to client said within my own head and nowhere audible = "If I wanted to earn less, for a lot less hassle, I wouldn't be doing this for a living. If I still lived with my parents, who also acted as my benefactors, then I could possibly work for less. The same could be said if I pirated my software, had no children, walked everywhere...naked, ate nothing but grass and leaves and gave up my costly hobby of breathing. Unfortunately I am not that man, therefore that is my hourly/daily price."

kopperdrake
02-20-2014, 04:19 AM
The walls are not the correct colour!

Which walls aren't correct?

These, these & these, & this large featureless wall varies in colour a lot!

So you mean the shadows & the highlight areas?

Yes!



Has happened with 3d & physical models. One client I took the site building out from between the surrounding buildings, he held the swatch up against every side of the model. The colour was perfect. I was impressed with myself as matching spray paint colours is usually nightmare. More so because pigments in one paint look different to another paint. Then add to this the myriad of lighting possibilities which affect pigments differently.

I put the building back & he couldn't understand why the building looked different within the overall model. No matter how much you explain, there are some who simply have a kangaroo on the loose in the top paddock & there is no hope!

I had exactly the same thing - stone colour that was "too dark."

Client: "The colour on the facing of the building is great, but that to the side is too dark."

Me: "But the wall to the side is in shadow."

Client (holding up the sample of stone in front of the monitor): "But the shadow on this one is lighter."

...

kopperdrake
02-20-2014, 04:32 AM
Ooh - I've just remembered one of the stories from my game production days. Not one of mine, but a fellow artist.

I was new to the industry, and in the kitchen there was one artist in particular who was looking really naffed off. Over a cuppa he mentioned that the producers, an external outfit whose name I can't say (but began with D and ended with Y, with an N, S,E and I somewhere in the middle) were being a real pain and just not liking any of the colours of the character he was working on. Change this, move that, change that, etc. They'd been doing it for weeks and weeks, and there are only so many variants you can go through for the colour of a doublet, hair style, or whatever it was, before you've travelled full circle. The problem was too many part-time producers, too little communication between them all, and too much ego in each one. I know this because he was a damned good artist and was following the brief to the letter - letters which changed from day to day depending on the current honcho, metaphorically looking over his shoulder.

So his little secret? He saved the old versions, and started to re-present them, with new names. This meant he could work on other characters and actually be productive, until the next meeting came around and he would pull some of the older models out, presenting them as the new models. Eventually they found one they liked - ironically one that they had passed over at least once in the previous weeks, and everyone was happy.

Andy Webb
02-20-2014, 05:02 AM
Oh Andy - the number of times I've had that one. One only last year - I took a small job on as I sympathised with a start-up outfit, cut the cloth accordingly to help them out, and explained this to them. Whether they assumed I was just cheap I have no idea, but they came back a few months later - success happening for them, wanting more work doing for the same kind of costs. I explained that it was a helpful cost the first time round, but there was no way I could do regular work on that kind of basis.

Then they used the infamous line as their dangly carrot - "But we promise we'll come to you for *all* our design needs in the future."

Quick mental calculation on my part...

1) Lots of work in the future, all at a highly discounted rate = less time to work on clients who value the time and effort
2) Question to self: Do I currently have enough clients who value the time and effort we put in? Yes.
3) Answer to potential client = "No thank you - really, that is our hourly/daily price."
4) Answer to client said within my own head and nowhere audible = "If I wanted to earn less, for a lot less hassle, I wouldn't be doing this for a living. If I still lived with my parents, who also acted as my benefactors, then I could possibly work for less. The same could be said if I pirated my software, had no children, walked everywhere...naked, ate nothing but grass and leaves and gave up my costly hobby of breathing. Unfortunately I am not that man, therefore that is my hourly/daily price."


It's happened too many times to be funny any more :oye:

khan973
02-20-2014, 10:01 AM
We need you to add a "Wow effect" to the animation... [Facepalm]

Can you send us a 200 Mhz animation?... Sure! [doubleFacepalm]

spherical
02-20-2014, 04:57 PM
This reminds me of a post in a thread on DPI and how to think about it correctly.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?136931-Is-300dpi-big-enough-for-wraparound-for-boat&p=1338016&viewfull=1#post1338016


once I just got the freakin email saying that the image didn't have enough dpi so I went to Photoshop and changed it to 600dpi just for fun. And they emailed back saying it was to big...ahah I then resent the same file with the 300dpi and they said it was fine now...they got the same file 3 times!...

Thomas Helzle
02-21-2014, 02:51 AM
This reminds me of a post in a thread on DPI and how to think about it correctly.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?136931-Is-300dpi-big-enough-for-wraparound-for-boat&p=1338016&viewfull=1#post1338016

OMG, DPI.... The fun we had with that one.
In addition to this case, I once was asked to put a logo on an object and they sent me a web-sized small gif. I asked if they have it in a higher resolution and they asked how many DPI. After they failed to understand my explanations that DPI is irrelevant for 3D rendering and that it's all about the actual pixels, I caved in and asked for a 300 DPI dpi file at 10cm. Soon enough I got my texture: the same gif but scaled up in Photoshop to my exact specification ;-)

Cheers,

Tom

Mastoy
02-21-2014, 03:38 AM
We need you to add a "Wow effect" to the animation... [Facepalm]



Haha ! I know who said that to you ! I got the same line ;)


Back when I had a boss, I used to do this little trick that could be usefull when dealing with people that need to decide and control :
Every time I finished an image or an animation I was happy with, I took 10min, in post, to tweak just a little thing. It could be a simple color correction on a single element, a shake effect, a lens flare, anything that changed a bit the final look.
Then my boss would come and check my work :
- "So how does it look ?"
- " I've made 2 versions, tell me which one you like"
- " Hmmm, this one is definitely better"
And that was it. The fact that HE chose one made him feel like HE was in control, so he was happy.

I still use that trick :)

Waves of light
02-21-2014, 03:53 AM
Haha ! I know who said that to you ! I got the same line ;)


Back when I had a boss, I used to do this little trick that could be usefull when dealing with people that need to decide and control :
Every time I finished an image or an animation I was happy with, I took 10min, in post, to tweak just a little thing. It could be a simple color correction on a single element, a shake effect, a lens flare, anything that changed a bit the final look.
Then my boss would come and check my work :
- "So how does it look ?"
- " I've made 2 versions, tell me which one you like"
- " Hmmm, this one is definitely better"
And that was it. The fact that HE chose one made him feel like HE was in control, so he was happy.

I still use that trick :)

I might have to try that one.

50one
02-21-2014, 04:41 AM
I might have to try that one.

Been using this for years, rule number one for me was to always have more than one version of final product.:D

jeric_synergy
02-21-2014, 09:58 AM
I still use that trick :)
TOTALLY stealling that. :thumbsup:

spherical
02-21-2014, 02:33 PM
- " I've made 2 versions, tell me which one you like"

We do this but don't show both at the same time. Our experience has been that if you do that, they choose one and then tell you to fix something in it. What we do is, alter anything and make it just this side of glaring, so they gravitate to it right off. They jump on that and go away feeling like they've done their important job. Once a bit of time has passed, present the first version and it is accepted. If we don't do this, they screw up a perfectly good final; just because....

Nangleator
02-21-2014, 02:58 PM
I wonder if the "source file" clients, when they have a new house built for them, ask the carpenters, electricians and plumbers for all their tools afterwards.

zardoz
02-21-2014, 03:58 PM
ah the DPI fight...always on! I feel like Don Quijote fighting huge DPIs...even recently I had to do some package renders and the client sent it in illustrator files but I have cs5 I guess and it wasn't opening, so I went downstairs to talk to our design team (with their macs...sorry for saying this but I see a pattern in this....) and I asked them if they could open the files and export it to tiff please. And they said: ok, you want it at 72 dpi right, because it's for screen res, no? and another said: no, stupid! now the standard is 96dpi for screen res!...I didn't say anything...I asked to export it at 600 just to make sure and I would take care of the rest (I know I can export for web and choose a resolution in pixels...but they don't! lol)

spherical
02-21-2014, 04:07 PM
...and this is your Design Team? I bet after you left, they said: "Man, is that not gonna work; it'll be huge!"

zardoz
02-21-2014, 04:14 PM
lol the last time I asked something at 600 dpis to a client they said it was going to be huge and couldn't understand why would I want that...this was for a chewing gum paper that I had to render in A4 res (3.5k...) this is something that will never stop...we have to live with that. But it's sad because I had several times agency people screaming at me, almost calling me names because I sent stuff at 72dpi...and after I sent it at 300 (the good dpi) everything was fine now...

spherical
02-21-2014, 05:00 PM
What I find really funny is people "specifying" that they be sent a 300 DPI file. They don't say at what dimensions, though. You ask and they say "I told you, 300 DPI!"

zardoz
02-21-2014, 05:10 PM
So many times...so many times. Sometimes I try to give an example like: you go to a store to buy a rug and you ask for a rug with 300 strands per square cm. The clerk won't move until you tell him the dimensions of the rug, because the strand density is important but without the dimensions, it's meaningless.

spherical
02-21-2014, 07:14 PM
They really don't understand what the letters mean. Uhhhh.... you forgot the "I" part. "What?" Yeah, that's what I thought...

Nangleator
02-21-2014, 07:16 PM
So many times...so many times. Sometimes I try to give an example like: you go to a store to buy a rug and you ask for a rug with 300 strands per square cm. The clerk won't move until you tell him the dimensions of the rug, because the strand density is important but without the dimensions, it's meaningless.
Ooh, great analogy! That will help me with some people.

geo_n
02-21-2014, 11:16 PM
I want 3 characters made and animated in a scene with colorful sky, green grass, animated trees, a hot air balloon and the main character with lipsync to the audio I will provide......for 80usd.

Mastoy
02-22-2014, 12:46 AM
Aahhh the dpi fight...
Once I actually asked my client to create a 1000x1000 black image in Photoshop, save it at 72dpi, then at 600dpi, and compare the file sizes. He understood that day :)

bazsa73
02-22-2014, 01:48 AM
I want 3 characters made and animated in a scene with colorful sky, green grass, animated trees, a hot air balloon and the main character with lipsync to the audio I will provide......for 80usd.

I know this. "Hey, we want something like in the matrix you know, or perhaps better if possible but we are on a very tight budget"

Danner
02-22-2014, 06:53 AM
I find the biggest hurdle in getting some animation/design/look accepted is not the client, but it's assistants/secretary/wife etc. They somehow feel the need find something wrong with your work, it must be that otherwise they feel worthless.

zardoz
02-22-2014, 06:54 AM
eheh had to do it
https://imgflip.com/i/73dlp

geo_n
02-22-2014, 05:51 PM
The final clincher....I own all the rights and the source files and if possible it should be in blender format......
The project tag listed lightwave, aftereffects......

Davewriter
02-23-2014, 08:46 PM
- - - Updated - - -


I know this. "Hey, we want something like in the matrix you know, or perhaps better if possible but we are on a very tight budget"


"Because once this hits - it's gonna be huge! So we'll really make it up to you on the next two we're gonna do. That and we're going to share your name with some very important people. It's going to be Great for your career.
So when will you be done with this one? Can we see it tomorrow?"

JonW
02-23-2014, 09:29 PM
Someone ask me to quote on a image of a bathtub. It was a very simple profile which anyone here could do in 30 seconds from the most rudimentary photograph.

I had to sign confidentially agreements a mile long. It looked like they were building ICBM’s in a rogue state & no one must know, so when I produced the image (with this shape) I could not use it for anything or show anyone the product.

It was very simple to get the shape from the angled very low res image which was trying to hide the shape.

I sent back a render in a few minutes but with splines making the render useless, also with sample written over it as well.

I answered that this is not the type of work I do & perhaps they should try elsewhere.

bazsa73
02-24-2014, 06:06 AM
- - - Updated - - -




"Because once this hits - it's gonna be huge! So we'll really make it up to you on the next two we're gonna do. That and we're going to share your name with some very important people. It's going to be Great for your career.
So when will you be done with this one? Can we see it tomorrow?"

One of my eye is crying the other is laughing.

Mastoy
02-25-2014, 01:48 AM
It's an old one but it is still so true

120402

allabulle
02-25-2014, 02:11 AM
Classic!

spherical
02-25-2014, 02:37 AM
How many times have I had that happen?

geo_n
02-25-2014, 02:44 AM
Haha. Just today a client said that they want to change the background into four seasons instead of the default day look. Mentioned that it should be easy to do changing the scene to snow, trees to have no leaves, change color grass, etc. Just like that cake. A magic button!
I just put my foot down and said that each background is an additional charge and created from scratch not minor work. Done deal.

sadkkf
02-26-2014, 10:08 AM
I have a client who makes medical devices and I rendered an exploding view of their newest. Just recently they changed the name so I had to change the text that floated around it as well as the decal. They told me: "We have Premiere so we can render this in a couple of minutes."

raymondtrace
02-26-2014, 03:48 PM
What I find really funny is people "specifying" that they be sent a 300 DPI file. They don't say at what dimensions, though. You ask and they say "I told you, 300 DPI!"

I usually honor this request by sending a 300 ppi image that is an inch square. If they're too silly to define the physical dimensions, I'll define their request as 300 Dots Per Image.

Waves of light
02-26-2014, 03:54 PM
I usually honor this request by sending a 300 ppi image that is an inch square. If they're too silly to define the physical dimensions, I'll define their request as 300 Dots Per Image.

Oh, that is genius.

JonW
02-26-2014, 06:43 PM
Sometimes clients ask me to use their photos for photo montages. I always refuse. Crap photos not on a tripod, let alone a solid tripod, not square or level (I have a dumpy level mounted on the tripod next to the camera) with various distortion chromatic aberrations and compression artefacts.

Their photos will do nothing more than give you problems and kill your good work. Not starting with a RAW image adds to the problems.

Everyone of these situations when the customer sees an A3/+ file, shot properly, they finally wake up to the simple fact just how shocking their photos are. It doesn't matter whether itís from their phone or DSLR.

I have sometime seen good lenses used but they still canít take a photo.

jeric_synergy
02-26-2014, 08:01 PM
I have a client who makes medical devices and I rendered an exploding view of their newest. Just recently they changed the name so I had to change the text that floated around it as well as the decal. They told me: "We have Premiere so we can render this in a couple of minutes."
Did you say "Have at it!"?

spherical
02-26-2014, 11:05 PM
Yep. Anytime someone thinks that it's as easy as falling off a log... let 'em.

Ivan_B
04-01-2014, 07:11 PM
Electronic equipment (power supply units) "Make it sexy"...I'm thinking..what, put a G string on it...

I was just asked if I could provide the final render and if I could provide .obj of the object rendered.

Hence me reading this thread, I'm not giving them anything but the renders as agreed.

Can I sell them the .obj and how do you price something like that??

EDIT: Another ripper, just got asked to send "mockups" (example renders) of a piece of electronic equipment to see if they want to go ahead with that unit, that would mean making the unit completely and sending stills....Cos if they didn't like it, I'd have to make another one..They expect this as part of the job...They just dont understand!!!!!

Ivan.

geo_n
04-01-2014, 07:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg&app=desktop
yep

Davewriter
04-01-2014, 08:43 PM
I once worked for an amuesment park that was used A LOT for TV and print ads because there were so many sections of the park that really looked like they were (fill in region or city). There were always drawn out agreements for what park services would / wouldn't be used. We had a billing sheet that covered everything. Crowds, food, lights, running rides.
For this one TV ad it had been a two week ordeal, but it was all locked in - no rides running, no stores open, no costumed characters - just the property as a background.
Day of the shoot. Director steps foot onto the property for the first time. Picks his angle (different from anything discussed) and wanted to know when we could start up those rollercoasters because "they'll look great in the back! Oh, and where are those cute furry guys that dance around?"
It was a day when the park was closed. No nobody. No ride operaters - no crowds - and no little furry guys to dance.
And camera is ready... Action!
Just a perfect day... sigh!

sadkkf
04-02-2014, 09:40 AM
Can I sell them the .obj and how do you price something like that??

EDIT: Another ripper, just got asked to send "mockups" (example renders) of a piece of electronic equipment to see if they want to go ahead with that unit, that would mean making the unit completely and sending stills....Cos if they didn't like it, I'd have to make another one..They expect this as part of the job...They just dont understand!!!!!

Ivan.

It's been my understanding (after talking with an attorney) that if you're hired and PAID for a project, the client owns the work and source files unless it's stated otherwise in your contract. Do you have a contract?

Obviously, any work they want you to do is billable so I'd tell them if they want mockups or anything else you will bill them for it. Just be professional about it and explain it's not a quick thing to build a model, texture and render it out. If you're able and they're willing, would it be possible to sketch something by hand or digitally instead?

I once had to code a single web page for a client, but code it seven different ways with different background colors because, for some reason, their board couldn't look at JPGs, only HTML pages. Fine by me. I billed them accordingly and no one complained.

sadkkf
04-02-2014, 09:46 AM
Did you say "Have at it!"?

I thought about it!

A quick phone call to them solved it. They didn't realize I was actually rendering this in 3D. Still wish Premiere wouldn't say "rendering" but "flattenting" instead.

Another kick is they told me they use Maya in their shop and were *very proud* to say they're using Adobe CC software. Real geniuses there. ;)

bazsa73
05-01-2014, 12:57 AM
A fresh one...
-She should look like Ellie in Pixar's UP...
-This is a nice hand but too thin and feminine, she should have chubbier fingers...
-She must be a cute little granny, whom everyone loves...

The final comment.
-She is too slender (just like old Ellie in UP)
-The new hands are not feminine enough (Yes, because you wanted chubby fingers)
-She has to be fatter and taller.

shrox
05-01-2014, 02:39 AM
I did get asked out for a date by a client, is that a crazy thing clients ask for?

It worked out for a few weeks...

creacon
05-01-2014, 04:12 AM
What can I say, you have been talking to the wrong attorney, he doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about. We make commercials all the time, the client pays for the end product (ie the commercial), if they want source files or other stuff used during production they can negotiate, ask for those and pay for those, if we agree.

It would be too easy to go to a professional company, have them model and design a character, then demand the source files and go where it's cheaper to produce the animation.


In software development what is done in many cases is that a copy of the source files is stored in a vault, if something should happen to the supplier (die, go bankrupt, disappear, ..) the client has the right to ask for those sourcefiles in order to be able to go elsewhere without loosing their investment.

creacon


It's been my understanding (after talking with an attorney) that if you're hired and PAID for a project, the client owns the work and source files unless it's stated otherwise in your contract. Do you have a contract?

raymondtrace
05-01-2014, 09:06 AM
What can I say, you have been talking to the wrong attorney, he doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about...

This really depends on your legal jurisdiction. (This is a global forum)

The attorney is most often right. That is why details need to be clearly stated in a contract. If you are hired to produce a product, the employer/client typically gets the product. That is why a contract should explicitly state what that product is (just an image or video...or the entire assets to create the rendered output as well).

However, even if an employer/client abuses a vague contract, the artist cannot surrender assets for which he/she does not hold an original copyright (font files, clip art, stock photos, stock textures, stock music, the Lightwave software license, etc)

sadkkf
05-01-2014, 12:27 PM
I did get asked out for a date by a client, is that a crazy thing clients ask for?

It worked out for a few weeks...

Ha! Me too! Turned out she was seriously allergic to my dogs.

sadkkf
05-01-2014, 12:37 PM
What can I say, you have been talking to the wrong attorney, he doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about. We make commercials all the time, the client pays for the end product (ie the commercial), if they want source files or other stuff used during production they can negotiate, ask for those and pay for those, if we agree.

It would be too easy to go to a professional company, have them model and design a character, then demand the source files and go where it's cheaper to produce the animation.


In software development what is done in many cases is that a copy of the source files is stored in a vault, if something should happen to the supplier (die, go bankrupt, disappear, ..) the client has the right to ask for those sourcefiles in order to be able to go elsewhere without loosing their investment.

creacon

Does this differ state to state then? I should look into this to be clear, but honestly, I don't care. If my client wants the source files they can have them.

Davewriter
05-01-2014, 07:19 PM
Doing some theatrical curtains and the client came back and he wanted them to "looked kind of distressted and rather... dangerous."

bazsa73
05-03-2014, 01:30 AM
Doing some theatrical curtains and the client came back and he wanted them to "looked kind of distressted and rather... dangerous."

Hilarious!

djwaterman
05-03-2014, 10:11 AM
Distressed and dangerous seemed a pretty solid direction.

spherical
06-30-2014, 07:39 PM
Here's one for ya. We're doing the 2014 Hugo Awards for LonCon3. They rejected the design we submitted two years ago, saying: "It fits our theme perfectly but we chose something else." The subject was raised again early this year, as they still had our submission to look at when none of the others seemed a good fit. All looked like a "Go" and then nothing. Burned up four months of development and production time waiting for a confirmation that we got the job. Then another two months waiting for the payment to arrive; which really says they are going through with it. Been there, not doing that again. All through this, of course the deadline isn't moving.

Each award requires three separate firings to make the component parts in glass. Each firing takes a minimum of 24 hours. We're making 40 of these. That's 120 firing days for the set. Yes, the kilns can take multiple units but only so many. So, ganging 6 of each component into a firing cuts the elapsed time to 20 days; just to fire the pieces. And that's if everything goes perfectly; which it won't. There will be failures. We're doing fusing, slumping and casting of glass. Lots of opportunity for anomalies to rear their heads. Cold working; grinding and polishing the glass, and assembly time using special glass epoxy that reaches a full cure in ten days, but is handleable in three, brings the production time back up again, no matter how fast we work.

Now comes a request to get them done in time for a large shipment that is leaving twenty some days earlier than our last possible ship date. Quite often, clients just fail to consider that, especially in cases of production of physical objects that have not been built prior, the artist/engineer just might need time to get this little niggling detail out of the way before jumping whole hog into building mode. Started out with a comfortable 7 months in which to develop the processes required and produce them. Ended up with a little over a month in which to do it all. No rush charge either. Clients paying attention to being expedient on their end sure would cure a huge amount of crunch on our end that, if we don't get them there in time, will be our bad reputation.

We're happy to have been awarded the Hugos but working under this kind of stress isn't good for us or the project. Why do so precious few ever consider that?

Davewriter
06-30-2014, 08:20 PM
The company I work for does fabrics for... well anything. Happily working several times with the Oscar's.
It strikes me as a bit funny that for an event that is penciled in... oh, EVERY YEAR... that somehow none of the "art" items can be decieded upon until 2-3 weeks before the show.
Ahhh Hollywood. How we do so love that last moment scramble.

Side item:
My friend does pyro. The real stuff. So he is in preliminary talks to do effects for this film.
"It's going to be like Die Hard. Only this time it's in a building."

jeric_synergy
06-30-2014, 09:16 PM
Why do so precious few ever consider that?
Virtually every film/video project starts later than it should. Why should physical stuff be any different?

I feel your pain: I work with a display company, and apparently many clients think we have Star Trek transporters for delivery.

Waves of light
07-01-2014, 03:36 AM
Quite often, clients just fail to consider that...

I honestly don't think consideration comes into it. It's just that they don't care. They see it as 'hey, we're paying for this, make it so!'


I feel your pain: I work with a display company, and apparently many clients think we have Star Trek transporters for delivery.

Lol, brilliant analogy.

spherical
07-01-2014, 05:28 PM
Virtually every film/video project starts later than it should. Why should physical stuff be any different?

It isn't, nor should it be. The point is, you can THINK at lightning speed; and that's what they DO. It's easy... isn't it? They have no clue about what it takes to do it or the time period required to do so; even in a half-assed manner, let alone correctly.

Still, on the "Why should physical be different?"question, here's why. We all do all manner of stuff in 3D that isn't possible in real 3D. Stuff in the physical world has to work. It has to stand up under the force of gravity. Can't float in mid-air. You know, be real. Doing three dimensional operating things in the Real World is a magnitude more difficult than it is in the virtual world. Same goes for painting and illustration. A sleight of hand flick of the wrist with your brush and you create an impression of an object. If it is to be more realistic, it takes longer. Even then, it takes far less time to draw a machine than it does to build it. You can draw the front, the back, the sides, the top, the bottom, the inside and it still would take less time than it would to build it; and it wouldn't run.

jeric_synergy
07-01-2014, 06:09 PM
Yes, but it still takes WORK, and work takes TIME.

The number of commercial spots I've worked on that just POINTLESSLY put the crew the wringer is by far the majority. It gets so that when you are competently scheduled, you feel enormously grateful.