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View Full Version : what does a sand dune and mountain explosions and a disco ball have in common?



vonpietro
02-01-2014, 05:55 PM
hi everyone,

happy chinese new year.

what does a sand dune and mountain explosions and a disco ball have in common?
there all lil projects i'm working on. =)


So, i'm trying to create a vehicle smashing though the crest of a sand dune.
it come up the other side and smashes through the crest like its a wave of water, but it's sand.

My first thought was to use something like real flow for that.
I'm looking for the sand to explode to the left and right and front as a buggy crashes through it.

maybe displaceing a volume of particles?

any one have any ideas how to do this?

thanks

Also, i'm new to bullet.
any one know what i would have to do to blow up a mountain?
what the steps would be to set something like that up?
model a mountain,
crack it with crack it plugin
seed with a lot of small lil rocks of various sizes and
now what?
do i need a force to explode it?

shot is a beam weapon not a missle that hits a mountain and puts a hole through it which explodes.

thanks for that too



oh ya, one more thing
a disco ball, any thoughts on this one, i was thinking of instancing squares onto a ball, pretty simple actually, but does lw render all the spots on the wall? do i need a big white 100 lum not seen by camera ball to have something to actually reflect? i'll try it out, but if anyone has done one with good results i would love to hear your story.

i have 11.6 lightwave so i'm up to date (i'm also a cg generalist having worked on various movies and tv shows), i've just been out of touch for awhile and i'm trying to get back into the swing of things.
peter p.

prometheus
02-02-2014, 02:39 AM
Particles is doable for a vehicle smashing through a sand dune...check Mr Ridīs video here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CquWZowXR14

Mountain exploding?...donīt think Ivé seen one actually explode:)
How much of the mountain is to bee exploded, what causes the explosion, debri type and following smoke etc?

Dont think you need the crack it plugin for it, you have 11.6 and can use all the fracture tools in modeler.

Ohh..I missed the part about the missile...so thatīs the force behind it:)
Just need to find out how big the mountain is, and how big is the area that is to be exploded? guess not all of it since it only makes a hole.

Model the mountain either directly in modeler and keep as low geometry as possible, but make the exploding area of the model as itīs own object that is fractured.
you could use displacement maps in layout, for the bigger mountain.

You could also use an invisible dummy mountain that is lower in resolution, but to serve as the background part of the mountain that will recieve and collide with the fracture exploding parts, instead of having
the higher displaced mountain doing it.

use a kinematic object to explode the mountain part...it will take some fiddling before you get the hang of it, if you are new, I would suggest check scene content first, check tutes on youtube..check manual
then test some easy breaking of parts before you embarge on your larger project, just get a sense on how kinematic and rigid body works...and also the new forces.
The new forces could also be used, and triggered in keyframe only and in that position where the explosion should be.

What you could do for some of us to help you easier, make a sketch/storyboard of the scene, rough scales and look of the mountain and the exploding part etc...that is what directors provide
for studios to work on and plan the vfx.

Michael

prometheus
02-02-2014, 02:53 AM
check all fracture and bullet videos on the lightwave youtube site..and Mr Rob Powers also have some nice tips for fracturing, and expanding that with showcase of chronosculpt control ..if you need that you have
to buy chronosculpt of course.

Lino Grandi-Bullet basics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjeTQI9WE0w

Lino Grandi-Fracture & bullet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtKCxCRuXWU

Rob Powers-Fracture & Chronosculpt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqexUbvLTxg


For proper particle interaction with bullet hard body parts, you need to calculate particles, and I then recommend saving the particle FX as pfx files, they may not render out properly otherwise.
Use hypervoxels for the sand as Mr Rid does, explosion parts from the mountain exploding is trickier to get real with hypervoxels and requires a lot of experience, otherwise buy turbulenceFD
for most realistic smoke and explosions.
Michael

pinkmouse
02-02-2014, 04:01 AM
oh ya, one more thing
a disco ball, any thoughts on this one, i was thinking of instancing squares onto a ball, pretty simple actually, but does lw render all the spots on the wall? do i need a big white 100 lum not seen by camera ball to have something to actually reflect? i'll try it out, but if anyone has done one with good results i would love to hear your story..

The mirror ball itself is quite easy, you just need to play with the specular settings in the Global Rendering panel. As for the smoky atmosphere, that requires a bit more work, (and one I don't have time to play with as I'm off for a family lunch shortly :) ).

119815


That took about half an hour to model and setup.

XswampyX
02-02-2014, 06:53 AM
For the mirror ball (aka disco ball) try here :- http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?108641-Mosaic-Sphere-How-I-hate-to-eyeball-stuff-%29&p=1144099&viewfull=1#post1144099

Some kind soul even made a nice l-script for it. :D

pinkmouse
02-04-2014, 02:24 AM
Nice script swampthing! Ta. :)

vonpietro
02-04-2014, 02:21 PM
thanks prometheus for the tutorials listings, very helpful.
Ya i'm new to bullet, but an old hack at lightwave, turns out i worked with dave riddlin at ufo.
also i worked with rob powers at netter in 2000 on a show called max steel.

i'll create a mock up of the scene, i've got the basic idea of how to break it up now, so i'll try that stuff out.

as for the disco ball, well i tried making one with instancing, and couldn't quite get that grid look, although another friend of mine said just make a ball and bevel it with a new surface and bingo.
hehe easy.
i'll try and see if i can get what he got.
i'll post all this in a couple of days though.

The mountain by the way is like a cross between the lonely structures in the grand canyon and more to the bottom a fat mountain like everest. The weapon is a beam weapon so there will be some beam effect, probably a tube.

wow daves crash video looks good for lw particles, thats particle children it looks like. i'll try something like that.

thanks again, i'll have some tests soon.
peter

prometheus
02-04-2014, 02:27 PM
thanks prometheus for the tutorials listings, very helpful.
Ya i'm new to bullet, but an old hack at lightwave, turns out i worked with dave riddlin at ufo.
also i worked with rob powers at netter in 2000 on a show called max steel.

i'll create a mock up of the scene, i've got the basic idea of how to break it up now, so i'll try that stuff out.

as for the disco ball, well i tried making one with instancing, and couldn't quite get that grid look, although another friend of mine said just make a ball and bevel it with a new surface and bingo.
hehe easy.
i'll try and see if i can get what he got.
i'll post all this in a couple of days though.

The mountain by the way is like a cross between the lonely structures in the grand canyon and more to the bottom a fat mountain like everest. The weapon is a beam weapon so there will be some beam effect, probably a tube.

wow daves crash video looks good for lw particles, thats particle children it looks like. i'll try something like that.


Michael
thanks again, i'll have some tests soon.
peter

Yes it most certainly is child emitters, not so many paren emitters...but a huge amount of particles in the child emitter, probably a third child emitter spawning and blowing upwards I guess...so getting a decent
dynamic sense in the particles is crucial,then start with the hypervoxels.

vonpietro
02-04-2014, 05:03 PM
wow just looked at your link for vimeo, some nice particle stuff. You've been busy. =)
thats a handy plugin for lightwave - answer for smoke and stuff.

prometheus
02-05-2014, 02:22 AM
wow just looked at your link for vimeo, some nice particle stuff. You've been busy. =)
thats a handy plugin for lightwave - answer for smoke and stuff.

thanks...yes turbulence is nice, and particle stuff with hvīs etc, those are somewhat old though, and I havenīt beed that active with them later, but will revisit some stuff, and
put up much better stuff prefereably with bullet stuff too...been busy with other stuff, but I think I can raise the level of those fiddling experiments a lot...which is needed for a good reel.

Michael

vonpietro
02-05-2014, 07:54 PM
well, i've played around with the instancing, and this is what i wound up with.
I know a real disco ball has tiles , i was trying to make the tiles lay on the ball using instancing, but show how i was not able to make it work, there is this gap that happens.
i tried every parameter, particle, surface, polygon points.
maybe it will work, i have to play with it some more.
but this is as far as i got with it.

the floor is a recreation from a guy on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCw7Ry46wh8
his floor is a texture map anim made in after effects

my floor is an actual object with random colors being generated, although i admit except for the back, they are strips of random color, i'd have to pick out 200 polys to make it really random, a bit of work there.
the texture map is really good way to go, but i dont have after effects =(

so, i'm making 2 more versions of the disco balls, someone in the forum used volumetric lights, so i'll try that too.

this is going to be a fun little gag when it's done. this is just the preliminary stage,
the wall of course is out of scale, and not the texture i'll be using.
i'm thinking of making some softbody drapes, but i hav'net used softbodies and dont know how to turn a square into a drape yet.
how do you pin the top of the softbody, weight map?

anyways, its in progress.
fun
peter p

as for the mountain, i still have yet to model it, although i will be trying google earth and importing data from that to see if i can map it onto an object
larry shultz (a good friend of mine actually) had a tutorial about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXfe3xizdnE
so, i will search for grand canyon for a lonely mountain =)

prometheus
02-06-2014, 05:46 AM
as for the mountain, i still have yet to model it, although i will be trying google earth and importing data from that to see if i can map it onto an object
larry shultz (a good friend of mine actually) had a tutorial about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXfe3xizdnE
so, i will search for grand canyon for a lonely mountain =)



splinegodīs legacy lives on, yes ..I tested that approach too, itīs hard to get good regions though, it can only use a certain area to grab from and that isnīt covering a full very large mountain range I think..
thus you have to grab several of them and try to mix..which isnīt that easy to do, and the region you can extract donīt have such detail that it holds up for close ups I think.

you could search for high res hight maps on the net, make sure you can use it or ask the author etc, or get world machine or geocontrol, I would recommend worldmachine.
http://www.world-machine.com/

expect at least 2049x2049 in resolution for it to hold up decently for close to medium shots.
The part that is to be exploded I guess you need to model in lower resolution and work out the dymamics for that seperatly etc.

image..vpr draft render....worldmachine terrain 2049x2049...I did not work on the texture though, the flying model is Russel Tawns prometheus model, which you can download for free over at foundation3d.
http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119942&d=1391690738
119942

prometheus
02-06-2014, 05:54 AM
ohh...I canīt say for sure, but I donīt think itīs the same location extraction..not sure here, splinegod went sketchup and added location through google, but google earth also letīs you work in google earth then grab locations from there..to
me it seems they arenīt exactly the same, they could be..but Imīnot sure.

there are tutorials for that too...there were in fact someone that posted a good coverage of it, so this link isnīt him I think, but might be worth checking...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtjJ91Q4kX8

vonpietro
02-07-2014, 04:04 PM
thats very helpful thanks.
heighmaps huh,
i'll search the web for some i can use.
is that like a grayscale made in photoshop?
or does hieght maps have additional data?

prometheus
02-08-2014, 04:04 AM
thats very helpful thanks.
heighmaps huh,
i'll search the web for some i can use.
is that like a grayscale made in photoshop?
or does hieght maps have additional data?

well yes, it is a grayscale map, but that is the end map you will use in lightwave, the grayscale map can be derive from other additional data..such as dem files, google earth data, or from terrain editors, worlmachine for example
can save out to different image formats, for lightwave itīs best to use 16bit tif at at least 2049x2049 resolution, and in lightwave you need a divided mesh and then subpatch it and control mesh density in layout
with display subpatch level to tweak it in openGL and VPR, but lower it later and then change the render subpatch layer.

Photoshop has nothing to do with it exept that you can of course draw your own map in there from scratch, or edit existing ones, you could also use cloud filters and noise filters to create them, but all this will be tricky
to get natural.

you can also for instance use textured environment and render out high res maps from lightwave procedurals and then open in photoshop and edit and tweak things there, itīs sort of an experimental way to do it.

there is also USGS DEM files freely available and you might be able to use this plugin, havenīt tested it in later versions of lightwave..
http://amber.rc.arizona.edu/lw/demscape.html#Installation

The question is foremost what look and resolution you mountain will have, if you can find something interesting over the net and with permission to use it and with enough resolution, I think that is the fastest way to go.

you could also just use all procedural textures available in lightwave directly to deform the mountain, but it will take some good eyeballing and experience with them to get near real life mountains.

Michael

gerry_g
02-08-2014, 05:30 AM
Terragen 3.1 beta has DEM file support, it is also very LW friendly an has a dialogue panel for terrain export that lets you set resolution and number of tiles for exprt, meaning you can export a high and low res set and use the low as a proxy to set up your POV and scene with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Rp4Go8jLs&feature=player_embedded

vonpietro
02-10-2014, 04:06 PM
i've used dem files before with some success.
its been awhile though.
thanks again, i'll check it out

GabeKoerner
02-12-2014, 08:19 PM
i've used dem files before with some success.
its been awhile though.
thanks again, i'll check it out

Waaaaaaaait a second...

[Moderator note: post edited for multiple breaches of Forum Policy (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?63918-NewTek-Discussion-Forums-Moderation-Policy&p=500391&viewfull=1#post500391).]

GabeKoerner
02-12-2014, 08:23 PM
[Moderator note: post edited for multiple breaches of Forum Policy (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?63918-NewTek-Discussion-Forums-Moderation-Policy&p=500391&viewfull=1#post500391).]

prometheus
02-12-2014, 09:31 PM
GabeKoerner ...This isnīt a forum for personal attacks or a public hangout of possible criminals already served sentence, I think you need to place that in your own blogs GabeKoerner

you have two posts accusing two persons?? [Moderation edit here, sorry ...]

jwiede
02-12-2014, 09:59 PM
[Moderated, sorry].

You might want to re-read the forum rules, and pay particular attention to the sections on personal attacks (such as your post), in order to avoid being banned (and/or sued for slander/libel over a mistake of identity).

gerry_g
02-13-2014, 03:30 AM
It's all right one of my brother does something similar, gets blind drunk then goes and harangues me on Facebook one expletive after another other, @ GabeKoener, next time don't just share your thoughts send us some of the drugs too

bazsa73
02-13-2014, 04:02 AM
It's all right one of my brother does something similar, gets blind drunk then goes and harangues me on Facebook one expletive after another other, @ GabeKoener, next time don't just share your thoughts send us some of the drugs too

Harangue? Never heard this word before, guess it's due to my non-nativeness.

GabeKoerner
02-13-2014, 08:29 AM
Ill consider the matter dropped.

GabeKoerner
02-13-2014, 10:53 AM
Harangue? Never heard this word before, guess it's due to my non-nativeness.

Really, apologies for ruffling anyone's feathers. I really was just trying to look out for the community but I understand that's not the way to go about it.

prometheus
02-13-2014, 11:31 AM
moderator stepped in and did moderation, I think that was appropiate, even some of my comments since it contains names etc...so thatīs all as it should be.

Michael

jwiede
02-13-2014, 12:37 PM
Yep, moderation needed and applied, thanks!