View Full Version : Scene/Dope Editor, is it so bad or am I doing something wrong?

01-27-2014, 10:04 PM
In trying to learn Lightwave I'm hitting a big wall is the scene/dope editor. Either it's horribly designed, or I'm doing something wrong, and I really hope somebody can tell me that I'm doing something wrong and what it is.

I took some screenshots to show this problem, because I don't know if this is a bug or if it's meant to be that way, and if it is, why could it be. This is a very simple scene of a ball going through a wall, using fracture and dynamics to break it. The only two things that are keyframed are the ball and the camera, which, once the ball hits the wall and the wall breaks, starts traveling backwards more or less along with the ball. So the dope editor shows these 3 keyframes:


Now let's suppose I want to make the camera movement to happen a few frames earlier. So I draw a selection that includes the 2nd and 3rd set of keyframes:


After this, I release the mouse button, and I press it again grabbing the selection rectangle to move those keyframes. However, as soon as I drag the selection rectangle, the original keyframes stay in the same place, but at the same time, they get duplicated and move along with the selection rectangle to wherever I drag it:


I can't believe that this would be designed this way. This has to be either a bug, or a preference that is set wrongly somewhere, but dragging and duplicating keyframes at the same time is not something I've seen in any scene editor of any software, 3D or not. This keeps on happening any time I move the rectangle around, eventually leading to chaos:


Also very puzzling is that when right clicking and choosing undo from the little menu, the selection rectangle itself goes back to where it was, but the duplicated keyframes stay in the new place.

Then there's another strange behavior. Some of the keyframes that were duplicated can be deleted, but some cannot, even by selecting just that row of channels:


With the selection that you see above, I right click, choose Erase and nothing happens. I can do this several times and it's the same. The only way to delete them is to go into the graph editor and delete the keyframes from there. You can see that I did delete the first set of duplicated keyframes, and I deleted them this same way, selecting them and choosing Erase. So it's puzzling that I cannot delete the second set.

I'm updating this post because now it's gotten even weirder, I'm still trying to figure this out, so I'm selecting and moving keyframes around, and sometimes, they move without duplicating at the same time. But I'm not doing anything else. It's not like I'm pressing a modifier key like CTRL, Shift or Alt. In fact, I also tried those earlier to see if they would prevent the keyframe duplication, but they don't do anything.

So I have to believe that these are bugs in 11.6.1, or that I'm not using this in the way it's intended to be, because it can't possibly be this poorly designed.

One thing that is definitely poorly designed and I hope there is a way to modify is the right click menu. I saw a video about the dope editor on You Tube and the guy says that in previous versions of Lightwave that menu used to be one, but then they changed it to these 3 groups, Sheet, Mouse and Selection. I don't get it, why would they change something so that it makes the user waste so much time? I mean, over several hours of working on a keyframe intensive project, selecting keyframes and then having to right click, go to the selection menu and then accessing the command you need, doing it a few times is annoying, but try that several dozen times, a hundred, two hundred, or whatever, and you're going to waste an awful lot of time when you add up all the times you have to do that. Why wouldn't they just leave all the commands on the same menu? This is not software for technically challenged people, the kind that needs all the commands on a TV set to be organized in menus and even then they can't work it.

But regardless of that design flaw, I really would like to know what's the deal with the duplicated keyframes. This is not one instance of Lightwave that went crazy, this has been the normal behavior since two days ago, and after several times of closing Lightwave and opening it back, and saving to incremental files.


01-27-2014, 11:06 PM
Just tried this in 11.6.1, I'm not seeing the keyframe duplication occur here. I only get duplicated keyframes when I hold down the Alt key.

01-27-2014, 11:23 PM
Thanks, so in theory duplicated keyframes exist only when pressing Alt while dragging. Normally that would lead me to think my keyboard has a stuck Alt key, but if that was the case I would be having weird occurrences in all programs, which I don't, and the keyboard is not too old.

Then I started opening other scenes from the Lightwave content, or LW 11 Signature Courseware, and the behavior in those is normal, but then I open again the file with the ball and the wall and that crazy behavior happens again, duplicating frames without pressing Alt. So what is it about this particular very simple scene that causes that behavior? is there a setting somewhere?

01-28-2014, 12:48 AM
Does sound odd, like I say I'm not able to reproduce it here.

Have you tried clearing your config files? Failing that, even though it's a simple scene, if you want to send me it I can try it.