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View Full Version : Layout jams at 5000 nulls?



erikals
01-20-2014, 12:28 PM
hi there,

wonder, does your Layout jam at 5000 nulls or so...?
2500 seems to work fast, but more just stalls...


http://youtu.be/Cb3p0d8DEjI

Ryan Roye
01-20-2014, 12:48 PM
I don't think its a ram problem. I get a noticeable slowdown with even just 500 nulls. This is more of a Layout issue; it does not handle scenes that are dense with objects/bones very well which is why in character rigging I prefer taking a minimalist approach whenever possible. Even if those objects/bones are inactive and aren't influencing or doing anything, they will slow down layout; the only way around it is to use separate scenes or use a less object-dense approach.

EDIT: After testing this is much more of an issue for objects than it is for bones.

erikals
01-20-2014, 01:30 PM
it could be...

i'm still wondering if it could be a ram issue though, as i only have 8GB...

--------------
side note, looking at some other stuff, did you see this...?
http://www.lightwiki.com/wiki/Speeding_up_IK

Ryan Roye
01-20-2014, 02:42 PM
i'm still wondering if it could be a ram issue though, as i only have 8GB...

For your reference, my system has 16GB.

Ztreem
01-20-2014, 04:36 PM
Layout is really bad when it comes to many objects and surfaces. I've loaded CAD files with more 100 different surfaces and over 1000 parts/objects, it took forever to load and made layout too slow to work with. Cinema loaded the same model in a couple of seconds and the application did not slow down a bit.

I think its more of a layout problem then a RAM issue.
Then I also question why we need more then 8 Gb of RAM for 2500 nulls? Seems like really bad memory management.

jeric_synergy
01-20-2014, 05:24 PM
Hmmm, that's not good. A null is minimal, so it amounts to database overhead deep within Layout.

I'd submit this as a metric test scene, so that the devs can identify where in the code the bottleneck is occurring-- after all, it's not like it's a million poly mesh, it's a simple poly-less identity.

It'd be interesting to know if the same slow-down occurs for LIGHTS (in wireframe or vertice display mode), since they are also poly-less. That might indicate which part of the code is the issue.

erikals
01-20-2014, 09:41 PM
ok, ran some more tests, and it's indeed a Layout problem.

by coincidence i got to see a realtime update in the object properties panel (objects in scene)
and while it's climbing very fast up to 2000, it just turns into syrup at 5000 objects...

(light objects or nulls, didn't matter, just as slow)

adding 10000 objects would probably leave Layout work for a half day...
note, i'm running 32bit LW, i hear 64bit is faster on heavy scenes, but i can hardly call this heavy...

object replacement also slows down considerably at 5000 objects, it works, but it's incredibly slow.


well, NT is aware of this problem and i suspect Modeler is getting a new Hydra engine, but what about Layout...
guess we won't know until we know... maybe Siggraph...


agh... :P http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

danielkaiser
01-21-2014, 07:40 PM
ok, ran some more tests, and it's indeed a Layout problem.

by coincidence i got to see a realtime update in the object properties panel (objects in scene)
and while it's climbing very fast up to 2000, it just turns into syrup at 5000 objects...

(light objects or nulls, didn't matter, just as slow)

adding 10000 objects would probably leave Layout work for a half day...
note, i'm running 32bit LW, i hear 64bit is faster on heavy scenes, but i can hardly call this heavy...

object replacement also slows down considerably at 5000 objects, it works, but it's incredibly slow.


well, NT is aware of this problem and i suspect Modeler is getting a new Hydra engine, but what about Layout...
guess we won't know until we know... maybe Siggraph...


agh... :P http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

If your running 32bit lightwave are you also running 32bit windows? LW and Win will only see 3 gig of your 8.

erikals
01-21-2014, 08:01 PM
true, forgot that...

still use 32bit because of some modeler plugins...

guess i should install 64bit soon...

(running Win64)

spherical
01-21-2014, 08:16 PM
On a 64-bit box, running LW 32-bit in WoW64 will see at most 4GB of the larger memory pool. The application has control over whether it can go past the normal 2GB by setting /LARGEADDRESSAWARE. Also, if you have a lot of RAM, you can run many more instances of LW, as the OS will place the 32-bit application in its own section of memory. That, of course, is constrained by the fact that the CPU has to run them all.

I fall back on 32-bit on the 64-bit box quite a bit, just for the reason of plugin compiles. Had an issue with IFW2 Organic Wood in the Texture Layers Editor, not on the Shaders tab, nor the nodes (have yet to figure out how to reproduce a wood grain texture that I hammered on for hours in nodes—the settings tabs are way different). The texture preview was just black and no grain showed in the render. I closed the scene, quit out of 64-bit LW and loaded it into 32-bit LW, hoping that this would work. There were all of the woods that I needed.