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chrisdude0000
11-17-2003, 10:12 PM
I have Maya PLE now but was looking into Lightwave. I have a Powermac Dual G5 and Maya just doenst seem to push my mac nothing seems to be very well optomised from them. Lightwave looked a bit more mac friendly. I was also wondering what you guys have heard on a 64 bit version of lightwave for the G5 and just the usage of the two ease of us reliability and quality of the renders. Thx

mlinde
11-17-2003, 10:28 PM
Lightwave looked a bit more mac friendly.
Interesting. I bet the developers would be excited to hear that.

I was also wondering what you guys have heard on a 64 bit version of lightwave for the G5
There is no official word on 64-bit Lightwave, so no, there is no news on this topic

and just the usage of the two ease of us reliability and quality of the renders[/B]
Although it has its problems, quirks, and bugs, Lightwave is a mature application, even on the Mac. Core program functionality is supposed to be identical between Mac & Windows versions (especially in version 8). Lightwave has one of the best built-in rendering solutions, IMHO.

When choosing a software package (especially the first one) you should look to the materials available to support your learning. I don't know much about Maya, so I can't tell you how extensive the community is, or how many tutorials you can find online, but the Lightwave community is HUGE, and you can find hundreds, if not thousands, of tutorials online for Lightwave, as well as a very active community to assist you in your learning curve. Whatever you decide, enjoy your entrance to the world of 3D art.

chrisdude0000
11-17-2003, 10:36 PM
thx for the info any other opinions will be greatly welcome

Beamtracer
11-17-2003, 11:13 PM
All the major Lightwave plug-ins are available for OS X. I believe the Mac Lightwave plug-in situation is more mature than Mac Maya.

My favorite plug-ins are from Worley labs
www.worley.com

TyVole
11-18-2003, 03:57 AM
Perhaps you should read this thread prior to purchasing LightWave on a Mac -- especially if you've got Panther:

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12841

Piolla
11-18-2003, 05:38 AM
Originally posted by mlinde
Lightwave has one of the best built-in rendering solutions, IMHO.

When choosing a software package (especially the first one) you should look to the materials available to support your learning. I don't know much about Maya, so I can't tell you how extensive the community is, or how many tutorials you can find online, but the Lightwave community is HUGE, and you can find hundreds, if not thousands, of tutorials online for Lightwave, as well as a very active community to assist you in your learning curve. Whatever you decide, enjoy your entrance to the world of 3D art.

He's right. I'm still a beginner in 3D animation. When I first opened Maya PLE I wasn't able to do ANYTHING. I've just looked and said: "Oh! Nice!" and closed Maya. When I looked LW for the first time, without RTFM first, I've modeled a dog. A terrible one, but still, I've done something.
This have encouraged me to stay in LW. I still use Maya because here in Brazil most of the studios and TV Networks use either Maya or Max, but I don't like it at all.

js33
11-18-2003, 06:17 AM
For anyone who wants to try a PLE edition of any of the following Lightwave, XSI, Maya and Max or even Houdini go here for some free video tutorials.

Maya, Max, XSI and even Lightwave video tuts (http://www.3dbuzz.com/)

While I am a diehard Lightwaver eventually I got curious what these other apps had to offer. I tried Maya before like you and just went "Hummm...WTF?" and went right back to Lightwave. That was on version 4.5 of the PLE. I recently downloaded the 5.0 version of the PLE and tried it again. After going through a few written and video tuts I was able to rig a character pretty easy and add IK. It's similiar to LW in some ways. But without using several tools in LW like Skelegon Editor and the Spreadsheet it would have (used to be) far more tedious to rig in LW.

Hopefully the new tools in 8 will make it even easier than it is now.

Maya's interface is similar to Max but somewhat better. I haven't tried Max since 2.5 and don't really want to look at now. But I hear Max 6 is pretty powerful these days if only they would redesign that fricken interface.

Cheers,
JS

modent
11-18-2003, 08:25 AM
I bought Maya 5.0 educational for $600. Two months later I got my new Dual G5 and they would not transfer the licence to my new computer. They told me the educational version is installed and dies with the computer is it registered. They were also VERY rude about letting me know this. I will never suport that company again.

js33
11-18-2003, 08:57 AM
Yeah I've heard bad things about Maya's license policys. They also won't let you sell it. So once you buy it you're stuck with it for life. Just like Max. I assume Maya has a dongle so what does it matter to them that you sold it to someone?

I would sure want to recover some of the $7000 if I bought Maya unlimited and wanted to move to another package.

Long live Lightwave. :cool:

Cheers,
JS

Beamtracer
11-18-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by TyVole
Perhaps you should read this thread prior to purchasing LightWave on a Mac -- especially if you've got Panther:

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12841
I've got a dual G5 +OS10.2.7 with Lightwave 7.5c. It's very stable. It doesn't crash.

Lightwave 8 will be out within the next few weeks and will be compatible with OS 10.3 (Panther).

jcool
11-18-2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by js33
Yeah I've heard bad things about Maya's license policys. They also won't let you sell it. So once you buy it you're stuck with it for life. Just like Max. I assume Maya has a dongle so what does it matter to them that you sold it to someone?

I would sure want to recover some of the $7000 if I bought Maya unlimited and wanted to move to another package.

Long live Lightwave. :cool:

Cheers,
JS

Actually, on the Mac, Maya does not include a dongle. It is processor locked, which is a real pain. They will allow you transfer for a fee.

chrisdude0000
11-18-2003, 06:25 PM
thx guys for all your ideas on this I think I am going to see if I can try it out hands on first.

toby
11-18-2003, 10:27 PM
Also note that Maya on the Mac is:

Not multi-threaded, and will hardly make use of your Dual

No 'Unlimited' version, Complete (or Incomplete) version only, and still costs more than LW

chrisdude0000
11-18-2003, 11:23 PM
It seemed really slow and boggy on my dual but I figured it was the PLE edition but I dont think that is it entirely. Is Lightwave Multi threaded?

Karl Hansson
11-19-2003, 04:27 AM
We run Maya Ultimate on Linux (apparently because windows is to unstable) here at Bournemouth university, UK. Maya has some great features but these features does not justify its price IMO. When it comes to modeling tools Maya does not beat LW. Sure Maya has nurbs, really good if you whant to make vases, plates and wineglasses. Maya also have edge weighting but not without bugs. Make a full crease edgeweighting and the texture mapping goes hey wire. FORGET basic things like bandsaw, bandglue, merging one point to another to the position of the second point in Maya UNLIMITED (The expensive version of Maya). And then you have the renderers, Mayas native mediocre render and Mental Ray who can't render Mayafur. There are alot of wierd and anoying things in Maya that LW just do so much better and easier. IMO LW is a beautiful 3D app who deserves much more credit than it's currently got and the price is unbeatable.

Just my opinion.

Piolla
11-19-2003, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Karl Hansson
When it comes to modeling tools Maya does not beat LW. Sure Maya has nurbs, really good if you whant to make vases, plates and wineglasses.

There are alot of wierd and anoying things in Maya that LW just do so much better and easier. IMO LW is a beautiful 3D app who deserves much more credit than it's currently got and the price is unbeatable.

Just my opinion.

Yeah, I was very curious about NURBS modeling and when I tryed it for the first time it was a great disapointment. I havn't seen a better modeler than Modeler yet!
As I said before, I work as a freelancer for the greatest Brazilian TV network where they use Maya and Max. When I showed some stuff I did in LW (models) the manager of the CG department asked me the price of LW. He was impressed tha a non expensive 3D app like LW was able to do things like I've showed him. And my stuff is no way as good as the stuff you see everyday in the galleries of this forum...

redlum
11-20-2003, 01:27 PM
We used Maya when I was in grad school. One semester they didn't have enough workstations so I bought a copy of Lightwave because I heard it was the most used 3D package in the industry. I figured it would be a good thing to know if I wanted to get a job after graduation. What I found was it was so much easier to use and I never had a crash while rendering. And this was the early 5.6 versions on the Mac. The Maya workstations were SGI O2s. They would freeze, crash, fill up the hard drive with garbage data, etc. To be honest the animation we did make in Maya looked incredible but the heartache it took to get there was incredible. Add that to the silly high price, well I've never used Maya since. When it came to buying 3D at work I asked for Lightwave.

Piolla
11-20-2003, 03:18 PM
I think there'a rush for Maya these days. It's fashion. Course it's great app that can do grand things but IMHO the biggest success of Maya is in marketing.

Most of 3D artists and studio that don't already use LW don't do it because they simply don't know it. They heared of it but never tryed.

wacom
11-20-2003, 05:36 PM
A friend of mine who does mainly graphic design and flash work for a small studio said they use Maya. After seeing their work though I thought why in the hell are they using Maya for "this" they could use Infini-D or TrueSpace for this. But who wants to have a client see you using something like that when they all want the next best thing. Screw the look of the final out put.

Another friend works for Siemens making phones. I think they've never used a 3D package before- so they went out and got Maya and a dual G5 'cause they heard Maya was the sh*t. Well guess what suprised them- that they could make diffrent colored phone face plates for the phones so fast! Today folks, it's 2003, and texturing is a normal feature of ALL software.

Sorry to rant- I just get frazzled when people throw money down a hole.

The day that 90% of people use the same 3D software will be a horrible day for 3D graphics technical inovation.

Here's to LW, Renderman, and that M**O thing on the Mac in the future to prevent this.

jcool
11-20-2003, 07:00 PM
I've used LW since version 2.0, and Maya of and on since it was released (however, I wouldn't call myself a master at either program, but I get my work done well). Maya is a little costlier than LW, but there are a few areas where is is definately superior. I won't defend LW here, because there are plenty others who I'm sure will be happy to.

Maya
The Good:

Is has a dopesheet. Good lord, what is taking Newtek so long on this?

The graph editor is easier to use and more stable than LW.

It has conceivably infinite undos, including all the panels.

It now has mental ray, which appears to be pretty awesome.. I have friends that swear by it.

The scenes import into AE

It has a great render layers feature that blows LW away, even with some of the new plugins that have come out. Newtek, check this out and copy it right away.

It feels like you can do just about anything with the program.. if you can figure it out.

The Bad:

Quirky, weird things happen... The program feels unfinished in places (but this has gotten much better over the years), but great in others.

The surface editor is very powerful, but the tools aren't very intuitive. Especially texture placement..

No built in network rendering. Screamernet, as limited as it is, is better than nothing.

Seems slower than LW overall, and even moreso on the Mac. (although LW seems slower on the Mac too..)

I'm not a big fan of the modeling tools, but this may be from lack of use.



That's a quick overview. If the cost doesn't bother you, and you are willing to spend a lot of time learning, I'd say go Maya. From a career standpoint, people tend to respect Maya animators more (like it or not), and you'll generally have more job options. If those are issues, Lightwave will work just fine.

mamurphy
11-20-2003, 08:12 PM
I've used both and I agree with jcool about the good and bad of LW vs MAYA.

My personal opinion is that the text based menus and tools are easier to find and use compared to other icon based programs (MAYA, MAX, etc...)

Text is more intuitive to me than suggestive icons, i guess.

SteveM
11-23-2003, 04:37 PM
actually you can do network rendering with the Maya software renderer - it is the MR render that you have to pay big bucks per node

amorano
11-23-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by mamurphy
I've used both and I agree with jcool about the good and bad of LW vs MAYA.

My personal opinion is that the text based menus and tools are easier to find and use compared to other icon based programs (MAYA, MAX, etc...)

Text is more intuitive to me than suggestive icons, i guess.

That is what the HOTBOX is for in Maya. All text, no icons, matter of fact I hide everything except my working window and only use the hotbox, and it is completely configurable.

Being able to hit anykey I assigned, popup an all TEXT menu, drag my mouse over to a function and have it go is very nice.

I wish LW would beef up the customization/ease of custimization in a future revision.

chrisdude0000
11-28-2003, 11:43 PM
Ok I just p[laced my order for lightwave 7.5 educational version. It has a free upgrade to version 8 I just couldnt wait. So ill let you know how it turns out. I just spent 400 dollars on your guys opinions I hope you all feel special.

toby
11-29-2003, 02:03 AM
400 bucks? well, we feel 1/4 special.

just glad you made the right choice :cool:

mamurphy
12-02-2003, 09:19 AM
THAT'S RIGHT! I forgot about the hotbox in maya. That is a nice function. Oh well, once someone learns the keyboard shortcuts, they don't need any of that stuff anyway.

Once again it comes down to a personal preference. Go Lightwave!:p

ingo
12-02-2003, 10:22 AM
Thats great, now that we forced him to buy LW lets talk about Maya's nice features, like PaintFX for example :D

chrisdude0000
12-02-2003, 04:04 PM
I wasnt really happy with maya in the first place that is why I was kinda looking for something new. You guys just finalised my decision.