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View Full Version : CES - 4K cameras



erikals
01-08-2014, 07:30 AM
Neat! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


Sony 4K Handycam - $2000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuQ6hXFYO3c

Panasonic GH4 - $2000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7slzXtsj0rQ


hm, where is Canon....

dsol
01-08-2014, 07:46 AM
For shooting footage that doesn't look like *** on a big screen (or a cinema screen), both these cameras are pretty worthless as they don't shoot RAW or HDR-compressed video (so highlights burn out in a ugly digital way and color reproduction is likely to be crummy). Note the lack of contrast in the demo footage they showed. It's all relatively flat scenes.

I'd rather have a 2k (or ever 1080p HD) cam that shoots high dynamic range. Hell, even shooting ProRes or Avid DNX HD is a huge step up from h264. The Blackmagic cameras - though they have plenty of gotchas - are still the ones to beat in this segment.

EDIT: But at risk of sounding cantankerous - thanks for sharing though!!

erikals
01-08-2014, 07:52 AM
i was thinking about mentioning Black Magic
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/no/products

but still, i think it's great that 4K is getting available for a good price.
depends on what person you ask too i guess, i for one don't like blurry (low-res) video.

but agreed, BM is the horse to bet on here for Cinema.


it's just good that 4K prices are coming down.

dsol
01-08-2014, 11:01 AM
but still, i think it's great that 4K is getting available for a good price.
depends on what person you ask too i guess, i for one don't like blurry (low-res) video..

For sure. It's great that we have such an amazing arms race in the camera market now!
But just because the cameras can shoot 4k, doesn't guarantee a less blurry image. You'd be amazed at how much softness H264 compression adds to video at any resolution. The difference between that and RAW is quite astounding

https://vimeo.com/73500694

dsol
01-08-2014, 11:04 AM
This one's even better at showing it:

https://vimeo.com/67829792

m.d.
01-08-2014, 11:31 AM
H264 isnt the problem....its the cameras implementation of it
H264 goes all the way to 14 bit in it's spec although rarely implemented....there are a lot of cams shooting 10 bit h264

and as far as the difference shown above, a lot of that is due to the h264 compression macroblocking that softens the edges...effectively undersampling the image... the videos shows are a torture test for h264

While raw clearly wins in those tests....a 4k image will have 4 times the pixels to create its macro blocks so the effect should be much nicer

the $2000 GH4 is one I am looking at for a broll camera for my epic...
It is supposed to have 200mbit? H264 and clean HDMI

I already shoot canon raw along side my epic for smaller projects....but the workflow/record times ect ect are a bit cumbersome for smaller projects

I am not promoting h264.....I hate it.
I am a purist when it comes to compression, and spent over $3000 for cineform licenses (back when they were expensive)

But these cameras are coming in at sub prosumer prices

m.d.
01-08-2014, 11:35 AM
as far as the blackmagic....if your going to get it be sure to get some good IR filtering....
It is by far the worst of the pro cameras....

This will be a factor in all outdoor shooting, or under tungsten
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T9u-1Ib6vo
watch at about 2:30 for the BM

canon is by far the best in this regard

erikals
01-08-2014, 12:23 PM
another reason to like canon :]
so i hope to see 4K on a Mark or so soon...

dsol, in the video above, post #4, it says the resolution is 2516x1196...?
is that possible? is the canon shooting at that high resolution through Magic Lantern?

3dWannabe
01-08-2014, 07:41 PM
For very high dynamic range and wavelet compressed RAW (very large files), open the piggy bank and get a RED.

I've had a Scarlet for almost 2 years, and will trade up to their Dragon in 2014.

Very nice to be able to trade your camera up to the full Dragon, or upgrade it to a higher version (Dragon sensor in Scarlet body).

Or get a used Scarlet ... it keeps getting better with new firmware updates.