PDA

View Full Version : REALTIME FLUIDS>for LW? soft cc



OnlineRender
01-07-2014, 07:28 AM
could be a double post sorry admin please merge if that is the case

what is the dark magic ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHulEPSEVUo

I WANT IT

50one
01-07-2014, 08:15 AM
it seems it's called CC Dynamics and it's using the PhysX library.....more info please!:)

m.d.
01-07-2014, 11:15 AM
very interesting

mummyman
01-07-2014, 12:57 PM
Let's hope there's much more on this soon. That's a huge need!

creacon
01-07-2014, 01:03 PM
I posted old stuff in the plugin developers thread on this forum.

http://forums.newtek.com/forumdisplay.php?170-Plugin-Developers-Discussion

creacon

OnlineRender
01-07-2014, 01:15 PM
I posted old stuff in the plugin developers thread on this forum.

http://forums.newtek.com/forumdisplay.php?170-Plugin-Developers-Discussion

creacon

are you the dev of this sorcery creacon ?

creacon
01-07-2014, 01:20 PM
Yes I'm making this, it's an experiment that got a bit out of hand :-)

creacon

OnlineRender
01-07-2014, 01:23 PM
sorry you may have noticed your videos hits took a large jump that might have been my fault :) ....


and your inbox might be full also .

but it looks damn good and I we all want to play with it .

creacon
01-07-2014, 01:36 PM
yep, I noticed that, was wondering what happened :-)
No time to post new videos but I'm a lot further along then what's on youtube.

creacon

3DGFXStudios
01-07-2014, 01:48 PM
Cool! I can't wait to see a newer video. I always like video that show stuff that can't be done in Lighwave but are done in Lightwave ;)

OnlineRender
01-07-2014, 02:06 PM
there is about 60 comments of speculation oooo's / aaaa's & how can I buy it ....here https://www.facebook.com/groups/lightwiki/

papou
01-07-2014, 03:38 PM
....any speculation about how to render that?

archijam
01-07-2014, 03:44 PM
My last post on the nt forums was on the 24th of july .. but this woke me up .. thanks thiersch and online ..

Looking forward to hearing more, creacon! :D

creacon
01-07-2014, 03:51 PM
It works with hypervoxels and I started writing my own volumetric isosurface renderer, but at this rate it will take ages to finish.
Or if someone can convince Newtek to implement absorption for HV, that would be an improvement too.
I looked at meshing using marching cubes (worthless) and marching tetrahedrons (a bit better but still worthless), so if someone knows of better algorithms, feel free ;-)

creacon

hrgiger
01-07-2014, 04:12 PM
So do you have a render of how it looks with hypervoxels?

OnlineRender
01-07-2014, 04:34 PM
sorry creacon didn't mean to open a big can of worms :)

jwiede
01-07-2014, 07:07 PM
I looked at meshing using marching cubes (worthless) and marching tetrahedrons (a bit better but still worthless)

Can I ask why you're declaring these as "worthless", esp. "marching tetrahedral"? "Marching tetraheda" should offer a significantly better result than cubes, and cubes is more or less the defacto std for these kinds of volumetric meshing/rasterization uses.

What precisely is it you so consider unacceptable? Is it the processing time you find unacceptably high, or the output mesh quality of the basic results generated too noisy, or...? Just using brute-force marching cubes or even marching tetrahedra won't be anything amazing, but it should at least yield the beginnings of usable results.

creacon
01-07-2014, 11:53 PM
I had some in the past, but I disabled the LW buffers for now(that are needed for HV rendering and instancing), I'll post one after I reactivated the buffers.
Anyway I'm not concentrating on rendering atm.

creacon

creacon
01-08-2014, 12:01 AM
JWiede,

Speed is not a problem, these are highly optimized algorithms. But they look bad and end up creating high density meshes that are near to impossible to manipulate afterwards.
And they don't use the extra information that is available from a liquid simulation. It is possible to shoot rays through a cloud of liquid particles and to know if you're going from air to liquid, to know that gravity is going in a certain direction etc.

creacon


Can I ask why you're declaring these as "worthless", esp. "marching tetrahedral"? "Marching tetraheda" should offer a significantly better result than cubes, and cubes is more or less the defacto std for these kinds of volumetric meshing/rasterization uses.

What precisely is it you so consider unacceptable? Is it the processing time you find unacceptably high, or the output mesh quality of the basic results generated too noisy, or...? Just using brute-force marching cubes or even marching tetrahedra won't be anything amazing, but it should at least yield the beginnings of usable results.

Cyberfish_Fred
01-08-2014, 03:50 AM
Respect!

erikals
01-08-2014, 07:17 AM
it looks good, but can it be made to create splashes like realflow?

(not fountain / downpour)

but more like >

http://payload.cargocollective.com/1/4/145470/1937290/aflava5.jpg


it'd be superb if it could... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

Netvudu
01-08-2014, 09:10 AM
Congrats on the "not-anymore-secret" project creacon. If the problem to develop full-time is economical, have you considered "crowd-funding" solutions such as kick starter? Im in a position where I can use multiple fluid solutions, and I would still donate for having this in LW. This means many other people would also do it.

hrgiger
01-08-2014, 12:53 PM
Congrats on the "not-anymore-secret" project creacon. If the problem to develop full-time is economical, have you considered "crowd-funding" solutions such as kick starter? Im in a position where I can use multiple fluid solutions, and I would still donate for having this in LW. This means many other people would also do it.

+1

OnlineRender
01-08-2014, 01:21 PM
it looks good, but can it be made to create splashes like realflow?

(not fountain / downpour)

but more like >

http://payload.cargocollective.com/1/4/145470/1937290/aflava5.jpg


it'd be superb if it could... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

I dont think that would be an issue with Physx sims its more to do with the meshing

Greenlaw
01-08-2014, 01:37 PM
That looks amazing! Keeping an eye on this thread. :)

G.

creacon
01-08-2014, 02:10 PM
That's not the point, at all, I don't need the money, this is what my company does www.cc.be , it's more than a full-time job and I have no plans in changing that. I started this as a test , or a proof of concept and now I feel I have to finish it ;-) On the other hand if someone would like to finish the work in my garden, you're welcome :)


Congrats on the "not-anymore-secret" project creacon. If the problem to develop full-time is economical, have you considered "crowd-funding" solutions such as kick starter? Im in a position where I can use multiple fluid solutions, and I would still donate for having this in LW. This means many other people would also do it.

OnlineRender
01-08-2014, 02:30 PM
That's not the point, at all, I don't need the money, this is what my company does www.cc.be , it's more than a full-time job and I have no plans in changing that. I started this as a test , or a proof of concept and now I feel I have to finish it ;-) On the other hand if someone would like to finish the work in my garden, you're welcome :)



see now I feel really guilty ... I'll bring my lawnmower round tomorrow :)

creacon
01-08-2014, 02:34 PM
There's no grass yet. lol. That's what you need to bring.

MarcusM
01-08-2014, 02:34 PM
That's not the point, at all, I don't need the money, this is what my company does www.cc.be , it's more than a full-time job and I have no plans in changing that. I started this as a test , or a proof of concept and now I feel I have to finish it ;-) On the other hand if someone would like to finish the work in my garden, you're welcome :)

Maybe you should contact with LW3DG or they should contact with you :]

Julez4001
01-08-2014, 03:25 PM
[email protected] Newtek,
Just buy the code from him already.


HYPERVOXEL 5 (because 4 died long ago)
I am so jealous of Houdini, FumeFx and others that bring that gaseous look to thier projects.

erikals
01-08-2014, 06:42 PM
an interesting read >
http://www.fxguide.com/featured/science-of-fluid-sims-pt-2-realflow
http://directtovideo.wordpress.com/category/fluid-dynamics/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoothed-particle_hydrodynamics

Dodgy
01-08-2014, 07:08 PM
Thanks for that Erik, very interesting :)

erikals
01-08-2014, 07:59 PM
yes, always wonder what the different challenges have been http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif


ps... i've been curious about this >

go vote... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/047.gif
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?139582-what-will-you-use-fluids-mostly-for

ianr
01-09-2014, 09:39 AM
julez says as it is!

Could someone in Newtek LW3DG open a channel to this gent

to aid him as it will aid Their LW Business indirectly.[U]

I cite 3dPowers Go plug-ins as a running robust example.

HV 5 MUST be realized one way or another, or others will laugh!

davidsenna03
02-21-2014, 05:22 PM
This is a huge need!! when is this going to be available to the public?

Sebasvideo
02-21-2014, 05:40 PM
I hope Newtek gives this developer whatever he needs, this would bring a lot of customers to Lightwave.

rcallicotte
02-22-2014, 12:36 PM
Oh, please finish this, Creacon. And maybe somehow someone in Newtek will listen to his requests.

Hail
02-22-2014, 01:15 PM
Can we have it yet?;)

rcallicotte
04-14-2014, 01:14 PM
Video is missing. This is either a good sign of something better coming or it means this thing has been dumped in the "Sinkhole of Wishes".

Cyberfish_Fred
04-14-2014, 02:36 PM
Video is missing. This is either a good sign of something better coming or it means this thing has been dumped in the "Sinkhole of Wishes".

lol:thumbsup:

creacon
04-14-2014, 03:02 PM
It's a sign of me being very busy....

3DGFXStudios
04-14-2014, 03:27 PM
It's a sign of me being very busy....

Busy with what? ;)

creacon
04-14-2014, 03:50 PM
ninjas!

www.3littleninjas.com

ernpchan
04-14-2014, 04:26 PM
ninjas!

www.3littleninjas.com

Ok, that was the weirdest funny little teaser I've seen in awhile.

OnlineRender
04-15-2014, 04:05 AM
haha epic animation

allabulle
04-15-2014, 05:55 AM
I love it!

souzou
04-15-2014, 06:06 AM
That is brilliant creacon, loving it! Really nice character design and animation :thumbsup:

Every4thPixel
04-15-2014, 06:13 AM
Oh man! That was a very funny teaser :D

creacon
04-15-2014, 06:32 AM
It's not my personal work, there are some very talented people who made this.
You can see the ninjas special power animations on the third page.

creacon

euge04
04-16-2014, 11:28 AM
What is the progress with using fluid dynamics in Lightwave? I found this:

http://www.splotchdog.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12:bfs&catid=11:lightwaveplugins&Itemid=121

Can I animated in Lightwave and then send the scene to Blender and then come back into Lightwave for the final shot?

Greenlaw
04-16-2014, 11:52 AM
Can I animated in Lightwave and then send the scene to Blender and then come back into Lightwave for the final shot?

Try this: http://www.clintons3d.com/plugins/lightwave/

There's a whole thread about using this plug-in but it's not turning up in the search engine. Maybe somebody else will post the link.

G.

allabulle
04-16-2014, 12:06 PM
Could be this one: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?136245-Import-Blender-Fluids

Greenlaw
04-16-2014, 12:12 PM
Double post deleted by poster.

Greenlaw
04-16-2014, 12:14 PM
Could be this one: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?136245-Import-Blender-Fluids

That's it! Thanks for finding it. I need to make a new bookmark for it. :)

G.

lardbros
04-16-2014, 12:23 PM
Absolutely brilliant animation there creacon!!!
Is this a LightWave created show??
And what part did you play in it?

creacon
04-16-2014, 03:53 PM
No Lightwave, modeling in Modo, animation in Maya, compositing in Fusion.
You would have a hard time doing the same in Lightwave, modeling wouldn't be a problem, rendering certainly not, but the animation/rigging part would be near to impossible.

I'm just the producer ;-)

creacon

lardbros
04-22-2014, 03:36 PM
I'm sure it'd be possible in LightWave, just nowhere as easy as in Maya.

Really nice work though... some crazy ideas, but brilliantly imaginative!!

Mr_Q
04-22-2014, 04:36 PM
There was also this...ancient but if it had kept up dev or if ...hell...so many ONLY IF's could be said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQdaeXHSpTA

http://www.dstorm.co.jp/dsproducts/plugins/LiquidPack/naminamifx.html

Skywatcher_NT
04-24-2014, 04:10 PM
No Lightwave, modeling in Modo, animation in Maya, compositing in Fusion.
You would have a hard time doing the same in Lightwave, modeling wouldn't be a problem, rendering certainly not, but the animation/rigging part would be near to impossible.

I'm just the producer ;-)

creacon


Nice stuff. Always love the CC animations! But animation/rigging part near to impossible in LW ???? :stumped:

silviotoledo
04-24-2014, 04:15 PM
and so... is the fluid dynamics available?

creacon
04-25-2014, 01:49 AM
Well, for one, our animators would go completely crazy having to animate without an undo function that works.
The bone deformation needs to be part of the deformation pipeline, so you can stack deformers, the before bones, last, etc.. in LW is just too limited.

I could go on for a while, but these are just a few.

creacon

creacon
04-25-2014, 02:02 AM
No, it isn't, there are only two people who have a very unstable version at the moment, and I need to find some time (= the hard part) to fix the bugs (= the easy part).

creacon


and so... is the fluid dynamics available?

Simon-S
07-30-2015, 02:45 AM
Hey- this looks amazing! Is there any progress on this plugin?

Cyberfish_Fred
07-30-2015, 03:32 AM
No, it isn't, there are only two people who have a very unstable version at the moment, and I need to find some time (= the hard part) to fix the bugs (= the easy part).

creacon

lol

creacon
07-30-2015, 04:22 AM
I can only say that I am already a lot further than the examples, but I prefer to dedicate my time to finishing it instead of posting new videos.What I am going to do pretty soon is lock down the feature list and only concentrate on getting everything that's in there as stable as possible. All the other features will move to a next version.

And before you start asking: I haven't decided if or when this will ever be released or not.

creacon

Cyberfish_Fred
07-30-2015, 04:29 AM
I can only say that I am already a lot further than the examples, but I prefer to dedicate my time to finishing it instead of posting new videos.What I am going to do pretty soon is lock down the feature list and only concentrate on getting everything that's in there as stable as possible. All the other features will move to a next version.

And before you start asking: I haven't decided if or when this will ever be released or not.

creacon

Ever thought on making it open source? Maybe some other programmers (with time) can help you (read: help us ;-)

creacon
07-30-2015, 04:36 AM
lol, I just replied in this thread ("Why doesn't LW devs take from Blender?
") what I think of opensource.

creacon



Ever thought on making it open source? Maybe some other programmers (with time) can help you (read: help us ;-)

mav3rick
07-30-2015, 05:32 AM
release it already :)

http://media.giphy.com/media/n59dQcO9yaaaY/giphy.gif

Greenlaw
07-30-2015, 10:53 AM
And before you start asking: I haven't decided if or when this will ever be released or not.
Such a tease. :)

lightscape
07-30-2015, 11:05 AM
And before you start asking: I haven't decided if or when this will ever be released or not.

creacon

I'd rather you not release it. Newtek won't be working on this feature themselves if someone already has a "working" plugin out there.

Greenlaw
07-30-2015, 12:15 PM
That's right, everybody should STOP developing anything for LightWave right this minute!

Now we can all sit back and look forward to the best Lightwave from LW3DG ever. ;)

G.

m.d.
07-30-2015, 01:03 PM
I'd rather you not release it. Newtek won't be working on this feature themselves if someone already has a "working" plugin out there.


I wish Turbulence and syflex and octane and LWCAD hadn't released their plugins either....we could have had awesome Newtek versions of all of these included by now

lightscape
07-30-2015, 08:11 PM
Did you guys read any of creacons posts regarding his projects? He has no plans to sell. No plans to offer support. Not giving the code to newtek or making it opensource. tts waiting for nothing. Newtek shouldn't wait to implement these features.

Greenlaw
07-30-2015, 11:10 PM
Did you guys read any of creacons posts regarding his projects? He has no plans to sell. No plans to offer support. Not giving the code to newtek or making it opensource. tts waiting for nothing. Newtek shouldn't wait to implement these features.
Seriously, with all due respect to Creacon and his amazing experiment, if LW3DG has plans for their own fluid particle system, I don't think they're waiting to see what he does with his first.

Before LightWave Instancer, for instance (pun intended,) there was the excellent HD Instance and DP Instance. Both are still fine plugins but that didn't stop LW3DG from developing their own instancing system. And before VPR, we had the ground breaking FPrime, and that didn't stop LW3DG either.

If Creacon releases his system, either as a commercial product or whatever, that would be welcome news to the LW community. But if LW3DG was in a position to add their own fluid particle system to Lightwave's native feature set, they would certainly do it. If they're hesitating at all, it's more likely because of the availability of Realflow. (Actually, I think they just have their hands full with a bunch other stuff right now.)

Anway, the more the merrier I say. I like having multiple options, especially when each one offers unique solutions I can leverage in special situations.

G.

creacon
07-30-2015, 11:48 PM
LOL, now they're starting to talk about me in the third person :)
Guess I don't have to reply anymore since other people are doing it for me.

Saves me some time.

creacon

spherical
07-30-2015, 11:59 PM
Anway, the more the merrier I say. I like having multiple options, especially when each one offers unique solutions I can leverage in special situations.

Exactly! We all have seen many times that one size does not fit all. One coder's approach serves this particular situation/implementation. Another coder's approach better serves another situation/implementation. Pretty much, as long as external individuals keep pushing the envelope: Viktor, Denis, 3rd Powers, Hurley, RJJ, Sacha, Sensei, Creacon, Chilton and the dozens of coders who have a great idea and write something for all of us to use, keeps not only the tech moving forward but puts pressure on LW3DG to do better and develop/incorporate new tools into the distribution. It can only be a Good Thing.

Greenlaw
07-31-2015, 12:29 AM
LOL, now they're starting to talk about me in the third person :)
Guess I don't have to reply anymore since other people are doing it for me.

Saves me some time.

creacon

Hope you don't mind...I got tired of replying so much to my own posts. :p

G.

lightscape
07-31-2015, 12:57 AM
greenlaw;1438589]Seriously, with all due respect to Creacon and his amazing experiment, if LW3DG has plans for their own fluid particle system, I don't think they're waiting to see what he does with his first.

Before LightWave Instancer, for instance (pun intended,) there was the excellent HD Instance and DP Instance. Both are still fine plugins but that didn't stop LW3DG from developing their own instancing system. And before VPR, we had the ground breaking FPrime, and that didn't stop LW3DG either.

If Creacon releases his system, either as a commercial product or whatever, that would be welcome news to the LW community. But if LW3DG was in a position to add their own fluid particle system to Lightwave's native feature set, they would certainly do it. If they're hesitating at all, it's more likely because of the availability of Realflow. (Actually, I think they just have their hands full with a bunch other stuff right now.)

Anway, the more the merrier I say. I like having multiple options, especially when each one offers unique solutions I can leverage in special situations.

G.[/QUOTE]

No disrespect to creqaon. He's clearly talented.
Anyway most of the plugins you mentioned are already dead or almost dead. Include sensei's plugins and dbw exrtrader, aelink, etc. Unfortunately the lw plugin market is very very very small. Similar plugins can't thrive. I'm pretty sure newtek plans out which feature they would like to develop that won't bulldoze their thirdparty devs so they waited quite a bit of time before bringing out native versions of those dead plugins.
This is why we won't see a native lattice deformer anytime soon. That would kill 3rdpowers.

ianr
07-31-2015, 03:22 AM
lightscape,
Do you know if LW3DG are working on their own Fluids System Or do you surmise?

3rdpowers did that because NO ONE in Newtek could be bothered,Erikals i think used

lobby for lattice every 6 months & me for years. Where do you stop being creatively

hampered, you roll your sleeves up & get stuck in, I for one wish Creacon to go forward

just to see where it takes him.

Our problem is that Third party is badly promoted still, & we all slobber about like junkies

for our next update Fix ,as 'the Man on the corner'( Newtek) deems to hand out the Candy!

I recently said to a LW3DG operative that this guessing, 'Black-Box' sealed mentality is wearing

a bit thin now as is Corrosive & Toxic to this great Forum. They nodded!

erikals
07-31-2015, 04:51 AM
first, if you want fluids now use RealFlow or Houdini Indie, not even Maya BiFrost works properly

Blender fluids hasn't had a proper update in 10+ years

for great fluids there is nothing else to use but RealFlow and Houdini Indie

------

no, that doesn't mean LWG should ignore fluids, in fact i know they were glancing at some solutions
but seriously doubt we'll see this soon, so use the excellent options you have now, RealFlow and Houdini Indie

creacon
07-31-2015, 06:55 AM
Plans can change, if I do something I want to do it right. It's no use bringing out a commercial product if you can't provide support within reasonable timing. That doesn't mean that there aren't any other people who could do that.
And to be honest I haven't got the time or energy to respond to all the "When is it coming out for MAC" or "Why is there no version for AMD cards" questions.

Why would I give the code to Newtek or opensource it? I might as well ask you to come and work in my garden for free. I can give you a list of everything that still needs to be done there ;-)

Newtek should concentrate on the basic functionality of LW (btw I count rendering, VPR, instancing to that basic functionality), all the things that are inaccessible to third party developers. The UI toolkit e.g could be completely made object oriented, so creating a UI becomes a joy instead of a burden. If I would show you the code I wrote just to check out which weightmap belongs to which object, you would know where the work needs to be done.

creacon


Did you guys read any of creacons posts regarding his projects? He has no plans to sell. No plans to offer support. Not giving the code to newtek or making it opensource. tts waiting for nothing. Newtek shouldn't wait to implement these features.

creacon
07-31-2015, 07:00 AM
We tested/used all of them, currently one of our guys is trying Houdini Indie, and he is convinced that he should buy the indie version.
You're being very kind to Bifrost by saying it's not working properly, I would call it .... (decided to censor myself :)

creacon



first, if you want fluids now use RealFlow or Houdini Indie, not even Maya BiFrost works properly

Blender fluids is hasn't had a proper update in 10+ years

for great fluids there is nothing else to use but RealFlow and Houdini Indie

------

no, that doesn't mean LWG should ignore fluids, in fact i know they were glancing at some solutions
but seriously doubt we'll see this soon, so use the excellent options you have now, RealFlow and Houdini Indie

CaptainMarlowe
07-31-2015, 07:04 AM
Well, so... When is it coming out for MAC with AMD cards ? :)

creacon
07-31-2015, 07:20 AM
Oh, right, never and never, same answer for 32 bit version ;-)


Well, so... When is it coming out for MAC with AMD cards ? :)

MSherak
07-31-2015, 11:06 AM
lol, now they're starting to talk about me in the third person :)
guess i don't have to reply anymore since other people are doing it for me.

Saves me some time.

Creacon


rofl

jeric_synergy
07-31-2015, 11:29 AM
You gotta be thick skinned as an alligator and possess the patience of a saint to be a LW 3rd party developer. Oh, and independently wealthy.

I think it might actually HELP 3rd Powers that not many there seem to be fluent in English-- they can concentrate on the code. (Which btw is awesome-- well, the functionality is awesome, I can't really speak to 'the code' per se.)

jwiede
07-31-2015, 12:47 PM
for great fluids there is nothing else to use but RealFlow and Houdini Indie


I use Dpit Effex with C4D, and its fluid capabilities are amazing. IMO, Effex's configuration system makes setting up even complex sims easier than in either RealFlow or Houdini.

erikals
07-31-2015, 02:19 PM
... that one looks quite decent

particle limit of 5mill for the €200 indie version seems a bit low, but could be worth it
full version is €700

Houdini indie is $200, but is not integrated (yet)

Houdini has better water fluids, but got surprised by Dpit Effex, i must say

jwiede
07-31-2015, 05:53 PM
Houdini has better water fluids, but got surprised by Dpit Effex, i must say

Based on what, just out of interest? I've consistently found Effex much easier when it comes to working with liquids (my main reason for purchase) verus either RF or Houdini, esp. when dealing with multiple liquids of different viscosities (and materials) in same sim, when you need two-way coupling between liquid dynamics and bullet dynamics in scene, and dealing with extracting render mask buffers etc.

I've got the full commercial version of Effex (latest version, v2.5 IIRC), so can't speak to the Indie version's limitations.

Cageman
07-31-2015, 07:24 PM
The youtube link (in the first post) OnlineRender linked to does not work anymore.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Appart from that, looks like a cool tool. :)

erikals
07-31-2015, 07:39 PM
works, but have to play it in a new window >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHulEPSEVUo

but now > movietime http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/cool.gif

lightscape
07-31-2015, 10:20 PM
Plans can change, if I do something I want to do it right. It's no use bringing out a commercial product if you can't provide support within reasonable timing. That doesn't mean that there aren't any other people who could do that.
And to be honest I haven't got the time or energy to respond to all the "When is it coming out for MAC" or "Why is there no version for AMD cards" questions.

Why would I give the code to Newtek or opensource it? I might as well ask you to come and work in my garden for free. I can give you a list of everything that still needs to be done there ;-)

Newtek should concentrate on the basic functionality of LW (btw I count rendering, VPR, instancing to that basic functionality), all the things that are inaccessible to third party developers. The UI toolkit e.g could be completely made object oriented, so creating a UI becomes a joy instead of a burden. If I would show you the code I wrote just to check out which weightmap belongs to which object, you would know where the work needs to be done.

creacon

Exactly. For that reason I think you're too busy to provide any viable plugin and support. There's little profit for making thirdparty stuff for markets as small as lightwave or modo anyway.

I got burned with AElink that never had much updates. Now there's a native AE plugin that is decent so the chances of getting an update for AElink is even slimmer.

What would be ideal is for Newtek to do what Otoy did with their software.
Pay someone to actually make a plugin and maybe give some incentives to that developer.
They're the underdogs they should reach out to devs not the other way around.
Its too risky for an independent developer to create something for lightwave right now.

I can work on your garden. Just provide the airfare :D

Julez4001
07-31-2015, 10:46 PM
You know you could always generate a kickstarter to see if there any monetary interest.

creacon
08-01-2015, 06:01 AM
Too much hassle, I'd rather just continue developing and see where it goes.
I never started this for the money, otherwise I would be doing it for Maya ;-)


You know you could always generate a kickstarter to see if there any monetary interest.

erikals
08-01-2015, 06:30 AM
you could create a poll, see if it would be worth it...

but just a suggestion, looks like i'm personally going the Houdini route...

http://erikalstad.com/emoti/vortex.gif

ianr
08-01-2015, 08:32 AM
Can you give Creacon breathing space .???

He,lll show you when he wants in his time!!

And Devs are okay look Mootools just have joined
the club. Lets see who else pops in not the other
way round. Marshiro San kicked it out of the park
with his 3rd powers Smoooth Stuff. Lets not be
so jaded & ccrrosive .

zapper1998
08-01-2015, 08:43 AM
wow coolness

jeric_synergy
08-01-2015, 09:03 AM
Just looking at 3rd Power's stuff almost pulls my wallet right outta my pocket. Like, telekinetically. Must.....Stay.....Strong.....

MooTools, you say? Haven't seen that yet.

lightscape
08-01-2015, 10:28 AM
the Houdini route...



Newtek needs to move their @$$
They need to develop direct relationships with
Fabric Engine
Houdini Engine
Substance
Chaosgroup vray

All of them will be the big guns for Modo, which is the direct competition of lightwave right now.
Newtek already missed the chance to connect with Groboto who had some presence here before. It turned out to be a great relationship for Brad and co., and meshfusion is now built into Modo.

creacon
08-01-2015, 05:56 PM
While you guys are busy speculating I finished the meshing, only need to implement object sequence saving (but there's a layout command for that) Now there is realtime updating of color and size and now you can see the speed in the viewport (before it was only density).
And I implented the age property so HV can do something with it.
It's 2 times faster too :-)

creacon

zardoz
08-01-2015, 06:13 PM
like!

erikals
08-01-2015, 06:42 PM
teaser! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif

OnlineRender
08-02-2015, 02:58 AM
you know that thread you created and wish you had not... sorry Creacon!

although it does cement the interest and desire to have fluids / decent particle system within LW.

you honestly can't rush a product of that nature, even if it never gets released to the public, but what it tells me straight away is that LW can be pushed and developers are thinking out of the box.

CC your code ,your time , your call ... personally I would kill for something so cool but congrats either way , quality bit of coding.

ianr
08-02-2015, 06:39 AM
Creacon,:compbeati::compbeati:compbeati=:jam::rock ::jam:=:beerchug::beerchug::beerchug:

creacon
08-02-2015, 03:55 PM
Object saving is working now, so I can at last render some results.
When I create the mesh LW automatically assigns the default surface. So the only way to change the surface is to load another object with the default surface and put the surface editor in "By scene". If I leave that other object in the scene the surface doesn't get overwritten when the next object loads.

Does anyone know a better, more elegant way?

creacon

OnlineRender
08-02-2015, 04:48 PM
it's sounds like the same issue with RealFlow back in the day with surfaces dropping , I don't know how you would do it via coding however you could drop a surface or preset into it.

http://3dxyz.pro/ocean-water/

- - - Updated - - -


it's sounds like the same issue with RealFlow back in the day with surfaces dropping , I don't know how you would do it via coding however you could drop a surface or preset into it.

http://3dxyz.pro/ocean-water/

Re: the old way was to re_write the sequence and import but it was l-script

hrgiger
08-02-2015, 06:38 PM
While you guys are busy speculating I finished the meshing, only need to implement object sequence saving (but there's a layout command for that) Now there is realtime updating of color and size and now you can see the speed in the viewport (before it was only density).
And I implented the age property so HV can do something with it.
It's 2 times faster too :-)

creacon

129116

creacon
08-03-2015, 01:58 AM
It's not really dropping surfaces, it loads an object that has the same surface name but other settings.
For a real solution surfaces should become independent from the objects, you can't even add or create a surface in layout, it uses what's in the object file and that's it.
I'm going to check if I can do something using the modeler commands in Layout.

creacon

Greenlaw
08-03-2015, 02:21 AM
I think the RealFlow mesh loader used to work around this by loading and applying a saved surface file to each object in the sequence after it loads. (I'm not sure if that's how it still works. I haven't used RF in ages. BTW, the RF loader also somehow loaded vector data so it could apply motion blur.)

In the past, I used a script that would load an object from a sequence, applies a surface file, save the object, and then repeated the process until it got to the last object. The script was run for the entire sequence in a separate 'pre-process' step, that is before the sequence was loaded into a scene for rendering. (I used it for a Groboto object sequence animation and it worked really well.) It's been awhile since I had to do that so I don't remember which script I used but it might be in the lwdb.

I seem to recall there was an alternative third part object sequence loader that solved this issue similar to how RF did it. I think that was pretty long ago though so it was probably an x32 plugin.

The 'brute force' method is to load all your objects, set to Edit By Scene, and surface them all and save them all. That's probably not practical for complex water meshes though.

This won't help but there was also a tool that came with Point Oven that would take an object sequence (lwo) and create an .mdd. This way, you only needed a single object for rendering. But obviously, this won't work with object sequences that have variable point counts.

Just tossing out some ideas. The pre-process script might be your best bet.

G.

spherical
08-03-2015, 02:37 AM
For a real solution surfaces should become independent from the objects, you can't even add or create a surface in layout, it uses what's in the object file and that's it.

Can this be handled by Sensei's TrueArt Global Materials?

tyrot
08-03-2015, 05:17 AM
For a real solution surfaces should become independent from the objects, you can't even add or create a surface in layout, it uses what's in the object file and that's it.


creacon

I call it CURSE of LAYOUT - it simply DESTROYs all the joy of lightwave.. you CANNOT change a ******* surface ! just rename it .. GRRRRRRRRRRR

creacon
08-03-2015, 05:53 AM
It seems to be nodes only, and I suppose that the global material stays with the scene but that each time the object is replaced I would need to make a new connection. But Sensei will provide a better answer if he is reading this thread.


Can this be handled by Sensei's TrueArt Global Materials?

erikals
08-03-2015, 09:45 AM
not sure if helpful >


mc mod CopySurfs - by Roman (ls)
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?137054-Blender-Fluid-Obj-Sequence&p=1339665&viewfull=1#post1339665

Scrub Replace - by Reiner Schug (ls)
http://www.interialabs.de/lw/lscript/index.html

Master Surf - by DPont (ls)
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/Lscript_Plugin_Development_en.htm

Sequence Object Surface Loader - by Clinton (py)
http://www.clintons3d.com/plugins/lightwave


you can also ask / check >
http://www.realflowforum.com/viewforum.php?f=30&sid=d2eb1c7b7acc2c70bc16143dfb319570

creacon
08-03-2015, 10:06 AM
Thanks, will check those out.

erikals
08-03-2015, 10:47 AM
just a note, i haven't tested these (might do it in the future, maybe)

(added one by DPont)

creacon
08-03-2015, 01:22 PM
Denis' version is the most useful, I am not used to LScript but it seams easy enough.
It still has to load the objects one by one and save them, but I guess this is the only way to do it.

creacon



just a note, i haven't tested these (might do it in the future, maybe)

(added one by DPont)

erikals
08-03-2015, 01:37 PM
yes, Denis' script looked pretty much straight forward

i noticed that CopySurfs had a subdivide option though, could be of use...


there might also be export-speed differences between the various plugins, did you notice any?

Greenlaw
08-03-2015, 02:18 PM
Thanks for seeking these out erikals.

You seem to know where everything 'forgotten' exists on the web. Maybe you should start a database? ;)

G.

erikals
08-03-2015, 03:52 PM
> Maybe you should start a database? http://forums.newtek.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

maybe later on, problem is that it takes such a long time

i'll keep adding links & tricks though... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/arteest.gif

Sensei
08-04-2015, 11:00 AM
Can this be handled by Sensei's TrueArt Global Materials?

Of course.
We can override the all objects the all surfaces with just one material.
Like I am doing f.e. here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5Ti9kZRGI8
(This scene has dozen of surfaces, and split to couple objects-layers, see how many Materials input are exposed after using Spread Global Materials tool)
Then you can make f.e. two Standard materials, and Mix them together using f.e. Gradient, or Weight map, which will have nothing to do with objects/surfaces.
And they will be f.e. on couple objects at the same time.
Example place were it's useful is beach and green grass or water, where we need smooth transition between them.

creacon
08-04-2015, 04:49 PM
Sensei,

I am using the object sequence reader, so at every frame there is a new object loaded with the same surface name as the previous one.
Will that work?


creacon

Sensei
08-04-2015, 11:29 PM
I am using the object sequence reader, so at every frame there is a new object loaded with the same surface name as the previous one.
Will that work?


Prepare and send here small scene with say 5 frames/objects, and I will check..

creacon
08-05-2015, 08:32 AM
I'll prepare something ASAP, but have to solve some other issues first.
If you want to try it now you could basically make 5 (file) copies of the same object on disk and rename them xx_001.lwo, xx_002.lwo, ....
And then add the object sequencer from the object replacement menu. That would give the exact same situation.

creacon


Prepare and send here small scene with say 5 frames/objects, and I will check..

lightscape
08-05-2015, 10:43 AM
Your videos are discussed at the foundy. Physx vs bullet.
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=4&t=113719&page=0

Quote from malbrecht :
If people claim that "PhysX" is better than bullet for USE IN MODO, I want to see proof.

Greenlaw
08-05-2015, 10:58 AM
I only skimmed the tread linked above. What caught my attention was one user's statement about Bullet getting fluids and gpu support. Is this true or just a rumor? If it's true, I wonder how long it will be for Lightwave integration.

Interesting times ahead I think.

G.

creacon
08-10-2015, 08:36 AM
Thanks for the tip :-)


Your videos are discussed at the foundy. Physx vs bullet.
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=4&t=113719&page=0

Quote from malbrecht :
If people claim that "PhysX" is better than bullet for USE IN MODO, I want to see proof.

lightscape
08-10-2015, 08:58 PM
Thanks for the tip :-)

So what's your take on that? Bullet vs Physx?
I've used dstorms physx and for small sims it was fine. I have no desire to tackle huge water effects alone so I rarely used Realflow.
But if they can add bullet or physx liquid in lightwave I won't complain.

creacon
08-11-2015, 02:18 AM
The version of PhysX that DStorm used was quite old and had a particle count limit of 32768, on the titanX I can add 10M particles on the GPU.

Bullet doesn't have any liquids atm so it's a bit hard to compare ;-)

I want to make something that people can actually use, Houdini is probably the most powerful (flexible) solution out there but it's not for everyone.

The engine is one thing, the way it's implemented (presented to the user) is a completely different matter, and that's where I start from the user not from the technical side. I decide how I want it to work and adapt the implementation accordingly.

creacon


So what's your take on that? Bullet vs Physx?
I've used dstorms physx and for small sims it was fine. I have no desire to tackle huge water effects alone so I rarely used Realflow.
But if they can add bullet or physx liquid in lightwave I won't complain.

tischbein3
08-11-2015, 02:37 AM
Object saving is working now, so I can at last render some results.
When I create the mesh LW automatically assigns the default surface. So the only way to change the surface is to load another object with the default surface and put the surface editor in "By scene". If I leave that other object in the scene the surface doesn't get overwritten when the next object loads.

Does anyone know a better, more elegant way?

creacon

since (v 9 ?) object replacement plugins are able to launch an editMesh function upon load completion,
So you might be able to use it for copying / pasting surface info. (Not tested this that extensively)

creacon
08-11-2015, 03:06 AM
Thanks, the meshediting already works. You can set the filename for the replacement to NULL, and provide the callback.
Nothing is loaded, and in your callback you can get a meshedit that allows you to do what you want to the geometry.
I can probably load a surface or copy an existing one at that time but that's not the real problem.

- The mesh is created with the default surface (I'll probably add an option so the user can define a surface name)
- The mesh is destroyed and recreated for all the following frames and the edits done to the surface are persistent if you put the surface editor in "By scene" mode.

So no problem while creating the simulation.

When you save an object sequence all meshes have the same surface (name) applied.
When you load them back in the surfaces get overwritten at each time step.
So I would need to rewrite the objectsequence plugin to account for that, and that's probably what they did with realflow.

creacon

creacon


since (v 9 ?) object replacement plugins are able to launch an editMesh function upon load completion,
So you might be able to use it for copying / pasting surface info. (Not tested this that extensively)

Cyberfish_Fred
08-11-2015, 04:06 AM
like

tischbein3
08-11-2015, 04:19 AM
So I would need to rewrite the objectsequence plugin to account for that, and that's probably what they did with realflow.

Exactly. Thats what I was thinking.

creacon
08-11-2015, 06:13 AM
I'll see what I can do, the code I have now to generate the mesh is almost identical
to what I need



Exactly. Thats what I was thinking.

creacon
08-14-2015, 07:13 AM
Added a new test on the youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuv590EM3dC52M0w6gFbuZQ

The description is wrong it's in fact low viscosity instead of high (that's another test) and I made this in 10 minutes, so don't judge the quality, it's a technical test.

creacon

ernpchan
08-14-2015, 07:19 AM
:thumbsup:

You're moving very quickly with this little project of yours.

creacon
08-14-2015, 07:25 AM
LOL, at 2 hours on average per day I think I am going extremely slow :-)


:thumbsup:

You're moving very quickly with this little project of yours.

ianr
08-14-2015, 09:09 AM
Hush Now,
We all sit in the Plug-in waiting yard & are happy with any bone you throw at us

and are grateful that your curiosity has carried you this far. Remember My EMotiCon's!

mummyman
08-14-2015, 09:35 AM
Drool.... drool.....

Greenlaw
08-14-2015, 09:36 AM
That's looking super nice! :thumbsup:

Sigh! I really could have used that last year for several jobs I was on.

G.

- - - Updated - - -


Drool.... drool.....
Yes, I could have used it for drool too.

mummyman
08-14-2015, 09:39 AM
Ha! Sure looks that way...

creacon
08-14-2015, 09:56 AM
I think it looks horrible.


That's looking super nice! :thumbsup:

Sigh! I really could have used that last year for several jobs I was on.

G.

- - - Updated - - -


Yes, I could have used it for drool too.

jeric_synergy
08-14-2015, 09:59 AM
I think it looks horrible.
Only you get to say that. :D


(I think it looks great.)

creacon
08-14-2015, 10:23 AM
A million particles with a skin shader slapped on them, look nice!

129266

mummyman
08-14-2015, 11:14 AM
Tease....

Sensei
08-20-2015, 08:22 PM
I am using the object sequence reader, so at every frame there is a new object loaded with the same surface name as the previous one.
Will that work?


How it works with LoD object replacement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxJeNKeVKdo

creacon
08-21-2015, 02:09 AM
I'll give that a try, but I am in full refactoring and debugging mode now ;-)

creacon


How it works with LoD object replacement:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxJeNKeVKdo

zapper1998
08-21-2015, 08:20 AM
totally awesome

:)

nez
08-29-2015, 09:18 AM
I've been lurking around a while and I want to say 2 things :

1- Creacon, your work hype'd the **** out of me, awesome.
2- Today I found this :

The tech : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUezoHa1ZF4

The web : http://www.rchoetzlein.com/fluids3/

The code : https://github.com/rchoetzlein/fluids3

The artist : http://www.rchoetzlein.com/website/

erikals
08-29-2015, 04:52 PM
definitely something newtek should look into as well... !

creacon
08-30-2015, 12:48 AM
This was already on my list ;-)



I've been lurking around a while and I want to say 2 things :

1- Creacon, your work hype'd the **** out of me, awesome.
2- Today I found this :

The tech : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUezoHa1ZF4

The web : http://www.rchoetzlein.com/fluids3/

The code : https://github.com/rchoetzlein/fluids3

The artist : http://www.rchoetzlein.com/website/

silviotoledo
08-31-2015, 02:33 AM
Is this plugin available?


I Need animating a logo for my indie short film www.facebook.com/ocantodalagoa

silviotoledo
09-08-2015, 07:42 AM
no news? it there a beta test version?

creacon
09-08-2015, 08:04 AM
No,

it's not available, and there is no beta available to the public atm.

creacon



no news? it there a beta test version?

nez
09-08-2015, 04:01 PM
How's going the development Creacon? I've noticed quite a slowdown, you still working alone on this?

fgreen
11-18-2015, 11:36 AM
Creacon, I know you have probably heard this before, but if you get this working and 'render-able'-- even to the point of blender fluids, it would be HUGE for LW! From your samples on YouTube, it looks like you are mostly there already. I can't imagine any LW artist wanting to be without this plugin....

As for me, my #1 feature request for many years has been fluid dynamics in LW. I'm ready to sign up right now...

evolross
11-18-2015, 12:07 PM
Maybe there's no beta or plugin coming because it's going to be integrated into the next version of LW!? :stumped:

spherical
11-18-2015, 02:36 PM
More probable is that a different approach will be required to interface with the next version and its approach to nearly everything.

lightscape
12-03-2015, 09:03 PM
Seen this?

https://vimeo.com/146191683

3djock
12-05-2015, 07:58 PM
Seen this?

https://vimeo.com/146191683

Too Bad it is 3D Max.

creacon
12-07-2015, 07:11 AM
Yes.


Seen this?

zapper1998
12-07-2015, 08:01 AM
wow thats cool....

pinkmouse
12-07-2015, 08:03 AM
It's just Bullet V3.0, rather than the Bullet V1.2(ish) we already have...:)

ianr
12-08-2015, 08:21 AM
Now we ride the Bullet Train LW3DG will update Bullet
So just plonk down on LW2016 wish list,after you scan
in what Erwin Cousins is releasing on his Bullet website.
It follows that Rob is up tp speed what is being offered
by Erwin, cos we got Ragdoll quickly,didn't we?

Oh, btw LINO if you are reading ,any chance of a Bullet
Ragdoll Genoma Rig soon?

Also it would churlish not to praise Creacon
for all his work climbing this mountain.

Steel
12-10-2015, 09:10 AM
Looks very promising. I probably need some fluids end of this month and beginning of next year. Its about water flowing along metalic surface of a machine in case of cleaning.
@creacon @Lightwave Any possibility to get some tool in my hand for that case?