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Fadlabi
12-27-2013, 05:10 AM
Hi all and HAPPY NEW YEAR
I am playing with Dielectric node and i missing something that i failed to achieve, and as you see on the modeling bottle bottom there's a curve but when rendering there not curve how can i fix this?
I appreciate any help and thanks in advanced.

Lightwave 11.6.1 windows 64bit

djwaterman
12-27-2013, 05:45 AM
One thing that might be an issue, your bottle is 3 meters tall. So the index of refraction settings won't behave as you expect on what is meant to be a normal sized bottle. I haven't found anything else wrong with the scene.

djwaterman
12-27-2013, 06:21 AM
What version are you using. I just noticed 'Exclude from Vstack' is switched on for both the bottle and juise in the surface editor. That's not necessary now with the latter versions of LW.

3DGFXStudios
12-27-2013, 06:38 AM
Your liquid is sticking inside your glass. Make your liquid smaller and turn off exclude from vstack and it works

djwaterman
12-27-2013, 06:48 AM
That's what I was going to suggest. In modeler I created a morph for the juice object and used 'smooth scale' to shrink it a fraction of a MM. Then in Layout I've activated the morph and drove it further to shrink it even more, the whole idea is to leave a tiny gap between the bottle and the drink. It changes the whole appearance.

I find this quite annoying because it's not how the real world is.

Fadlabi
12-27-2013, 06:52 AM
Thanks djwaterman and 3DGFXStudios, i will do what recommended and i will come back with the result.

Sean Martin
12-27-2013, 06:55 AM
Had a quick fiddle with your scene. Exclude from v stack should not be on for your surfaces. Also your inner liquid is intersecting your outer glass. All surfaces should butt up to each other. I have amended your model, where the liquid meets the glass at the neck top I have merged those points to stop any clipping due to the sub patching. Also I noticed your liquid refraction was higher than your glass, not sure what look you are going for but buy doing this you will end up with some very dense refractions through your glass, hiding any internal detail. In the image attached refraction for the liquid is reduced on the far right. Hope that helps.

djwaterman
12-27-2013, 07:06 AM
]Here is what I got. I wrongly assumed your juice object was already flush with the glass so I went and actually shrunk it a little which leaves a gap, and that is wrong. But this is how it looked with a gap. remember, this is wrong even if it looks sort of okay.

118948

The other thing is that I scaled everything down in Modeler to make it more real world scale.

Fadlabi
12-28-2013, 10:53 AM
Hi again, djwaterman,3DGFXStudios and Sean Martin
After i applied your tips and trick and suggestions, i think i am going in the right direction. But i have face another problem a bout a darker color on the bottom of the bottle, how can i fix that?
I appreciate any help and thanks in advanced.

Lightwave 11.6.1 windows 64bit

Danner
12-28-2013, 11:35 AM
I can't test it but make sure your ray recursion limit is high enough, in some cases I've put a refraction image in the environment settings so I didn't have to wait for all the recursions.

Fadlabi
12-28-2013, 11:56 AM
Hi Danner and thanks for reply, the ray recursion limit now 32, it's not enough?

Ztreem
12-28-2013, 04:10 PM
32 is more than enough for this scene. Make sure that your bottle is not penetrating the surface its standing on.

Sean Martin
12-29-2013, 03:33 PM
Fadlabi, To get proper refraction through your objects, there should be no gap between the glass and the liquid inner. I suspect there is with yours, as I can see a double reflection on your surfaces which is most likely casting dark shadows as you have ray traced shadows on. 32 rays is complete overkill, 16 should be enough.

Have look at the the amended files I attached in my previous post.

OnlineRender
12-29-2013, 04:30 PM
your man issue is the model ... I would suggest making the light geometry 100% dissolve in the render object properties that way you can move the camera around the scene without limiting the render ..

you also need a decent hdri background image.


http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118988&d=1388359834

spherical
12-31-2013, 03:01 AM
But i have face another problem a bout a darker color on the bottom of the bottle, how can i fix that?

It was mentioned to not have the bottle penetrating the surface it is sitting on but, actually, it really cannot be touching it at all. There needs to be a minuscule air gap between the Dielectric and any solid. There is always at least a molecule thickness of air between the two. If there weren't, the objects would stick together.

djwaterman
12-31-2013, 04:01 AM
Is that so? I wish we could have a definitive answer on this, does it say this in the manual I wonder? I am busy right now so not inclined to test it but I'm guessing you're right about this.

spherical
12-31-2013, 05:42 AM
Yes, if you are looking to reproduce real-world, air needs to be there. Otherwise, you have a material that is glued to the glass and you'll get a different result. Just physics. Same goes for the requirement that liquid does need to touch the glass—because there is no air in there. It is "glued" to the surface. Solids cannot be, unless there is an intermediary material like water, oil or adhesive. Surfaces have micro-bump. There are extremely few that have micro-bump so small as to essentially be nonexistent. In between and around the bumps are air molecules.

Say so in the manual? Heh, probably not, but it should. OTOH, it's not a 3D application's place to be teaching physics. Just check my sig. We work in creating and modifying glass all the time. That is why I was so intent on getting Dielectric to be as good as it is by helping Antti with feedback on the iterations as the node was developed.

XswampyX
12-31-2013, 12:25 PM
I had a quick look....

Here it is with outer glass surface, then outer fluid surface. No air or gap. I had to re-model the outer bottom of the glass bottle to give it a base ring to show up in the refraction.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/Glass_Bottle_Waves_Small_zpseb454c61.jpg (http://s465.photobucket.com/user/xXswampyXx/media/Glass_Bottle_Waves_Small_zpseb454c61.jpg.html)

You really are going to struggle to make an interesting glass surface with no background and a plain white floor. :-(

jeric_synergy
12-31-2013, 12:39 PM
I'm not going to be any help, but: it's nice when the SUBJECT LINE actually says HOW or for WHAT one is looking for help in.

A proliferation of "How Do I...." subject lines is just annoying, since almost every post IS a "how do I?" post.

XswampyX
12-31-2013, 01:23 PM
I'm not going to be any help, but: it's nice when the SUBJECT LINE actually says HOW or for WHAT one is looking for help in.

A proliferation of "How Do I...." subject lines is just annoying, since almost every post IS a "how do I?" post.

+1

It's very annoying! :)

Thinking about the glass, it might be because it's missing the caustic element to the lighting, and leaving the render flat/overcast?

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/xXswampyXx/Glass_Bottle_Waves_Octane_Small_zpsbcdd34df.jpg (http://s465.photobucket.com/user/xXswampyXx/media/Glass_Bottle_Waves_Octane_Small_zpsbcdd34df.jpg.ht ml)

spherical
12-31-2013, 09:55 PM
I'm not going to be any help, but: it's nice when the SUBJECT LINE actually says HOW or for WHAT one is looking for help in.

A proliferation of "How Do I...." subject lines is just annoying, since almost every post IS a "how do I?" post.

+1 x 1,000