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simonlion
12-22-2013, 10:27 PM
Hello Everyone.

I been working with After Effects, and It seems like many people use CINEMA 4D for their 3D with After Effects.
What Is the different of using LightWave with After Effects, than using CINEMA 4D with After Effects.
Thank you very much.

BigHache
12-23-2013, 06:00 AM
From what I understand in speaking with folks that use C4D, they like the UI so it's become more the tool of choice for motion graphics artists. As it's been described to me, having Photohop-like layers, so being something an Adobe user might already be familiar with.

What will be the difference in using with AE? Shouldn't be all that much unless you're looking to use the version that comes with Creative Cloud. Supposedly has tighter integration with AE. At the end of the day, you're going to render out some stuff and layer it in AE.

chikega
12-23-2013, 08:07 AM
Cinema4d is very strong in motion graphics with it's Mograph toolset and Modynamics (essentially bullet dynamics in Mograph). Also, it's ability to finesse and animate text is unparalleled for it's power and ease of use. And as BigHache mentioned, C4d has tighter integration with AE.

erikals
12-23-2013, 09:04 AM
another difference is the price, with upgrades, i guess LightWave is half the price?

prometheus
12-23-2013, 09:49 AM
I believe it is more connected to the tools in mograph and the reputation and client user base maxxon and cinema4d has built up.

Ivé just recently come across a couple of job ads for motion graphics work(sweden), required skills is cinema4d and mograph and after effects, that is as of today one of the most used standard tools that has been imprinted
over a couple of years as the nr1 choice for motion graphics.

And the price tag is one difference, for medium to larger companies that will probably be secondary, getting the job done as they want it is primary..thus the lightwave pricetag falls short compared to the dynamic features in cinema4d required for certain jobs.

Michael

erikals
12-23-2013, 09:53 AM
there are also much more tutorials on C4D Motion Graphics tutorials.
though LightWave can do it quite nicely.

use DPont Part Move and Poly Move along with other tricks.

i know C4D can do things LightWave can't do, but i also know things LightWave can do that C4D can't...


but again, very few LightWave tutorials on Motion Graphics out there...

prometheus
12-23-2013, 10:17 AM
there are also much more tutorials on C4D Motion Graphics tutorials.
though LightWave can do it quite nicely.

use DPont Part Move and Poly Move along with other tricks.

i know C4D can do things LightWave can't do, but i also know things LightWave can do that C4D can't...


but again, very few LightWave tutorials on Motion Graphics out there...

Agreed..except for dynamic text is sorely lacking.

the old desktop images tutorials had some stuff for motion graphics stuff with text and for lightwave 8-9 I think, shame those seem to be buried somewhere nowadays, those should be offered free or for
a very cheap price tag ..somewhere.

prometheus
12-23-2013, 10:24 AM
still active? don´t know...Brad "modo" Peebler:) showcasing many of the other lightwave stuff, but textual revolution and graphics detail, and motion graphics are done by Rich Helvey.
http://www.desktopimages.com/DI2098.shtml#DI2098

those were way before the great tools from denis within dpont_nodes which further expands on what can be done in lightwave.

jeric_synergy
12-23-2013, 10:46 AM
If you acquire C4D after you've got AECC, creating a NEW c4d layer will fire up your full-on c4d, not c4d-lite. So the integration remains the same.

Integration with LW is possible, especially with the LW3DG supplied camera matching tool (which's name I forget right now). So you can track a camera in AE, import the camera motion into LW, setup your 3d elements on the background plate, render in LW everything (usually w/using the Shadow Catcher node), or just render the 3d elements and composite back in AE.

I think you can use the same tool(???) to animate something in LW, and export the LW camera path in AE, so you can add 2.5d elements onto a LW composition.

jeric_synergy
12-23-2013, 11:34 AM
I'd say that LW can do text-motion-graphics, but the user has to be MUCH more technically able than a c4d user.

DPKit is extremely powerful, but it's not exactly a walk in the park.

simonlion
12-23-2013, 09:12 PM
With all the respect to Newtek, and Lightwave, I learned the Basic Lightwave From Dan Ablan's Tutorials. Very good teacher.

years ago I did purchased from desktopimages.com the great "Brad Peebler.
Also, I have Lighting Tutorials from Nicholas Boughen
As far as CINEMA 4D GOES; I see Lots of Tutorials on After Effects and CINEMA 4D, But no Tutorials on After Effects, and Lightwave.

First Of All: I cant even Compare myself to you guys regarding Lightwave. I am still Learning the Lightwave. As far as Lightwave Tutorials goes, Not many In the Web.
There are Thousands Tutorials on Adobe Products.

djwaterman
12-23-2013, 10:25 PM
I'd love to see more Motion Graphic tutorials using Lightwave, and yes, featuring the tools by Denis Pontonnier (which desperately need clear visual tutorials explaining how they are used). All that bouncy extruding text stuff you see, text extruding along an animated path, I know it can be done in Lightwave but have no idea how I'd do it. It's a shame because it is probably not as difficult as I think it is and the LW to AE intergration doesn't get the workout it deserves for the most part, just creating text in LW is a drag, and the majority of Motion graphics work is just text. Perhaps this side of things will be improved in a future release.

simonlion
12-23-2013, 10:55 PM
I would Love to see Lightwave and After Effects working together.

jeric_synergy
12-23-2013, 11:53 PM
I would Love to see Lightwave and After Effects working together.
Now we have communication problem: Lightwave does have native exchange with AE, plus at least one commercial solution that surpasses the native solution.

But in your case, this has A) not been communicated, or B) is too difficult to locate.

A LW3DG staffer did a long video tutorial on the process of tracking in AE/LW. I suggest you check the https://www.lightwave3d.com/ site for that and other information.

(Here's the link.https://www.lightwave3d.com/learn/article/lightwave-115-after-effects-interchange/
Frankly, I prefer this kind of information in TEXT form, so I can skim and get the essentials. sitting thru a video is inefficient. It is in text form in the addendums, starting with 11.5. )

The commercial solution is here: http://www.liberty3d.com/tools/ae-link-plugin/

simonlion
12-24-2013, 05:18 PM
Dear jeric_synergy

Thank you very much for your Info, I did go to the link that you provided: http://www.liberty3d.com/tools/ae-link-plugin/

So, Technically you have to purchase a Plug-In called lightwave to After Effects Exporter " AE Link Plugin" ??

Dose It do the same work as CD4 To A/E Interchange.
Thanks.

jeric_synergy
12-24-2013, 05:25 PM
No, there's a native plugin that comes with LW11.5 and up. No purchase necessary.

However, Liberty3D's offering is supposed to have some advantages over the native solution.

I'm not familiar with c4d, only c4d-Lite with AE-CC, so I can't comment on the differences.

simonlion
12-24-2013, 05:36 PM
Dear jeric_synergy.

Thanks. I do have the Current version of LW 11.6.1. Also, I have the A/E CC that comes with C4D Lite.
Dose C4D Lite is enough for normal Motion Graphic Animation works. Because the other version's of C4D's are so expensive. $$$$$$$

Where is this plug in inside the LW 11.6 ?

djwaterman
12-24-2013, 06:10 PM
In Layout click on the 'IO' tab at the top and down the side list along with GoZ and some of the other exporters you will see 'LWtoAE'. I've never used it but there is a tutorial on it on the Learning section of the LW website. I use AELink to move stuff into AE and I find it is excellent, as advertised. One nice thing is that you can create a null in Layout, and then in the Null properties you can designate the Null shape, meaning you can make it into a AE solid with exact dimensions, when this scene is transported to AE there is your solid, everything matches perfectly.

And for going the other way, AE to LW I use this free plugin AE3D_Export (http://www.motion-graphics-exchange.com/search.php?mgxq=AE3D_Export&p=1&c=4)


It creates a LW scene from your After Effect project, but you might think nothing has happened or it's not working, but you will find that the scene is sitting somewhere on your desktop.

I don't know how good the native LW solution is because I never used it, but I assume it is just one way also.

simonlion
12-24-2013, 06:31 PM
Dear djwaterman.
I found It . I am playing with It I will let you know..
Thanks again.

djwaterman
12-24-2013, 06:59 PM
Yeah, I think the native solution goes both ways too.

jeric_synergy
12-25-2013, 12:11 AM
The LW plugin is also covered in the 11.5 and 11.6 PDF addendums. (I feel text is faster to reference.)

More than likely there's YouTube tutorials, but there's a link to the LW3DG video above.

dwburman
12-28-2013, 04:44 PM
The native Sent to AE solution works pretty well, I think. There's a button to send a selected item to AE, and a separate plugin that you add to AE to send items to LW.

AE Link has more features, perhaps the most useful being that it can send more than one item at a time, so if you're working on something with lots of movements and you're flying a camera around and have a dozen animated tv screens or cards you want to go to AE, you'll be able to get it done with one click with AE Link whereas you'll have to select/export each individual item and click LW to AE with the native solution.

Also, The native solution exports lights, nulls, and cameras. AE Link exports those as well as the position/rotation of objects as well.

As mentioned earlier, with AE Link you can "Add Custom Object" to your nulls and objects to have AE make solids of a specific size/color, or even make a text object with placeholder text.

AE Link does not (yet) have a component for moving motion data from AE to LW, but that base is now covered by the native tools (as well as some other 3rd party tools for AE).


I haven't tested either solution with AE CC

jburford
12-30-2013, 05:55 AM
Dear jeric_synergy.

Thanks. I do have the Current version of LW 11.6.1. Also, I have the A/E CC that comes with C4D Lite.
Dose C4D Lite is enough for normal Motion Graphic Animation works. Because the other version's of C4D's are so expensive. $$$$$$$

Where is this plug in inside the LW 11.6 ?


C4D Lite has various Presets (Content Browser) for some Animation moves, Camera Moves, and Info Graphics. Will get you going pretty well, but will not have the power of MoGraph which is in most other versions. You would at least need C4D Broadcast Version. It costs about the same as Lightwave (new pricing @ $1500). Maxon had a upgrade deal going on where you could upgrade from the delivered C4D Lite for 40% off the other versions of C4D.

If you are wanting to plop out Motion Graphics and are putting out the same $1500 for either one, it is a No Brainer!

Your competitors will be putting you out of business quickly, unless you are a real master at Lightwave and the DP Plugsins and are heavily routined.

Just my 2 ( euro) cents!

erikals
12-30-2013, 07:44 AM
i guess one can forget about C4D Lite as it only renders out 800x600... (!)
http://www.maxon.net/it/products/general-information/general-information/product-comparison.html

Broadcast looks alright, but basically has no dynamics... :\
also no hair sim...

jburford
12-30-2013, 08:08 AM
NO. . . . C4D Lite has no limitations on size when used within (launched from within) the After Effects Bundle!

The limitation you note, only applies to it when used Standalone outside of the Adobe Bundle.


Broadcast is right if we are talking about Broadcast Graphics like I thought we were. Standard Dynamics are included as well as Rigid Body Dynamics for all of your MoGraph Objects. With Expresso, you have a Node Based System within most all of the C4D packages which is pretty much like a Lite version of ICE. Hair and Cloth not really needed for Broadcast Graphics, at least in my eyes.

If one really needs heavy dynamics and fluids, then would suggest X-Particles 2.5, which is one heavy hitter!

O



i guess one can forget about C4D Lite as it only renders out 800x600... (!)
http://www.maxon.net/it/products/general-information/general-information/product-comparison.html

Broadcast looks alright, but basically has no dynamics... :\
also no hair sim...

erikals
12-30-2013, 08:56 AM
C4D Lite + After Effects... nice, but costs.

i'd rather go LightWave ($1500) + HitFilm ($300)
also upgrades are much cheaper in these...

jburford
12-30-2013, 09:29 AM
Have been thinking about HitFilm lately as do not like the forced hand of Adobe in regards to owning and leasing forever.

He already has the Cloud, so the C4D is free.

Unfortunately I only have an older version of Adobe CS 4, but can say that after picking up C4D, even only though Prime, have only started up Lightwave about 10 times in the past 18 months compared to daily before. (and have been with LW since 2.0/3.0)

Since he already has LW 11.6, he could drop the cloud and pick up HitFilm. But still . . . . when talking MoGraphics, would still say C4D Broadcast. But each person's mileage will vary.

Cheers

erikals
12-30-2013, 10:20 AM
wonder, how do you find modeling in C4D compared to LightWave?

i really like the new C4D edge (rounder) tool, looks awesome.

jburford
12-30-2013, 02:49 PM
interestingly, I feel pretty comfortable modeling in C4D now, though found myself going about it different ways. An E-book really helped me get moving early feeling comfortable in C4D. Have found a love for a non-destructive way of working through most of the project, just committing as needed; and working with the deformation modifiers when modelling. Yes, there are pretty decent tools to work with, especially splines and importing of AI files and such (Artsmart).

jeric_synergy
12-30-2013, 03:54 PM
jburford, which ebook?

I mysefl would like to try migrating some objects from C4DL to LW.

jburford
01-01-2014, 11:20 AM
jburford, which ebook?

I mysefl would like to try migrating some objects from C4DL to LW.


Product Design & Rendering 3D Fluff eBook by Janine Pauke. Not specific to modeling, this though will get you up and running and a pretty good understanding of how to work in Cinema 4D.

Can only highly recommend it.

jeric_synergy
01-01-2014, 11:26 AM
I'm using the CC c4dl, and inevitably as I do c4d tutes I run into the limitations, e.g. no bevel AFAICT in c4dL. :(

It would be enormously helpful to have c4d in my resume, but at $3 grand, that ain't gonna happen.

Thanks for the book pointer! Happy New Year!

jwiede
01-02-2014, 10:14 AM
It would be enormously helpful to have c4d in my resume, but at $3 grand, that ain't gonna happen.

If you wait a bit, another of MAXON's ~50%-off sales is likely to come around, they're fairly common occurrences.

jeric_synergy
01-02-2014, 10:22 AM
I need to date/marry an educator, since they can get it free. Free is almost what I can afford.

jwiede
01-02-2014, 10:56 AM
I need to date/marry an educator, since they can get it free. Free is almost what I can afford.

Or perhaps just take a class? Though if the date/marriage approach is more to your liking, far be it from me to discourage you. :devil:

jeric_synergy
01-02-2014, 11:18 AM
The dating/marriage option has benefits beyond work. Or so I'm told. ;)

Burndog
12-08-2014, 02:57 PM
If you wait a bit, another of MAXON's ~50%-off sales is likely to come around, they're fairly common occurrences.

jwiede, any tips on where to look? Just check Maxons site or do you see the discounts via Toolfarm or need to be on the Maxon mailing list? 50% off and I'll buy today and wait on the Lightwave 2015 upgrade.

jeric_synergy
12-08-2014, 03:15 PM
I hope that those sales are 'wayyy more often that I suspect they are. :(

But if there's someplace we can keep an eye on, I'd like to know.

Burndog
12-09-2014, 12:05 PM
Sorry for the off topic reply -
I talked to sales at US Maxon and they noted they will not know about sales ahead of an announcement from the Germany headquarters, but that in "Spring" there is usually a sale.