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3rd Powers
12-22-2013, 12:02 PM
Hello everyone.

We have joined the Rebellion with our intention.
We would like to assist as Third-Party Developer.

please visit our website:
http://www.3rdpowers.com


LightWave can fly more higher.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_sU7HrtuMY

Thanks.

Dexter2999
12-22-2013, 12:13 PM
Nice video! Welcome additions to the LW toolset! (And quite reasonably priced, IMO.)

Wish you the best of luck with sales.

ernpchan
12-22-2013, 12:30 PM
Oh my! These tools look fantastic!

probiner
12-22-2013, 12:43 PM
Well... that's just... very good... O_O

I only pity that due to structural constrains they can't come out both as modeling and animation tools.

Good job.

jeric_synergy
12-22-2013, 12:48 PM
Holy Cow!!!

(hey, whatever happened to the LW cow?)

Well, this should address a LOT of people's xmas lists!

50one
12-22-2013, 12:49 PM
Amazing! But...kinda unhappy that 3rd party need to fill-in the gap, I mean how hard it is to create a friggin lattice deformer these days?this should be built-in:)

No offence to developer, this looks amazing indeed!

rikka+
12-22-2013, 12:51 PM
Cage and lattice deformers are really interesting, well done :)

Doctor49152
12-22-2013, 01:26 PM
holy freaking WOW!! It truly is a Christmas miracle!! :D

Can I assume that these are available in 64bit?

UnCommonGrafx
12-22-2013, 02:07 PM
That made me laugh aloud a few times.

I am only in hopes of you being very connected to Mr. Powers and this being a preview of what's to come.

Metamesh. How long over-due? Sculpting with a new approach, eh?

Laughing at the lessons I believe have been learned by Core, Chronosculpt and other projects I have no idea of.

Danner
12-22-2013, 02:21 PM
Amazing tools. Can't wait to try them out.

lardbros
12-22-2013, 02:28 PM
Hoooly cow!

Those metaball modelling tools are pretty remarkable... Haven't looked at the price yet, but these really show what LightWave is capable of in the right hands!

Thanks for sharing your hard work... And for supporting LightWave and its users

chikega
12-22-2013, 03:31 PM
Amazing that someone finally made a lattice deformeer plugin (messiah not withstanding). This looks amazing!

Hail
12-22-2013, 04:04 PM
Wow! Holly WOW!:D

spherical
12-22-2013, 04:06 PM
Sure made my year-end sale choices more difficult. Are these .p or .ls?

khan973
12-22-2013, 04:26 PM
WOoooWOOOO°°°°000OOOooo...wWWW!
I've been waiting for this for so many years! I'm so happy right now! Take my wallet!

erikals
12-22-2013, 04:32 PM
Great Stuff!... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif

wonder what is the difference between the Cage Deformer and the Lattice Deformer?
does the Lattice Deformer work with bones?...

khan973
12-22-2013, 04:33 PM
3rd Powers, I'm ready to get the whole bundle but I wanted to be sure it's 64bits plugins. Thanks

UnCommonGrafx
12-22-2013, 04:43 PM
Oh wowy, and for sale?!?

Yes, 64bit?

tyrot
12-22-2013, 04:56 PM
another 3rd party miracle!

brent3d
12-22-2013, 05:03 PM
This is simply incredible and great pricing as well!

lertola2
12-22-2013, 05:03 PM
Is the meta mesh plugin a modeler or layout plugin?

Greenlaw
12-22-2013, 05:04 PM
Right now it's $300 for the whole bundle--not bad! The Boolean and Metamesh tools look amazing. Man, I seriously could have used any and all of these tools on the last couple of freelance jobs I was on.

G.

brent3d
12-22-2013, 05:06 PM
Amazing! But...kinda unhappy that 3rd party need to fill-in the gap, I mean how hard it is to create a friggin lattice deformer these days?this should be built-in:)

No offence to developer, this looks amazing indeed!

Obviously LW is not up to your standards, you have choices so use them.

Greenlaw
12-22-2013, 05:13 PM
Yeah, it's not clear if it's x64. I assume it is but if anybody finds out for certain please post.

I'm tempted to make the purchase anyway--maybe tomorrow. First I need to think about how I can use these tools immediately. Man, if they work as advertised, I really could have used these tools a month ago--might have saved me days of work.

G.

50one
12-22-2013, 05:20 PM
Obviously LW is not up to your standards, you have choices so use them.

Whatever...

jeric_synergy
12-22-2013, 05:34 PM
Amazing! But...kinda unhappy that 3rd party need to fill-in the gap, I mean how hard it is to create a friggin lattice deformer these days?this should be built-in:)

There is no end to whinging.

Obviously, it's SO HARD it took until today.

papou
12-22-2013, 05:53 PM
Yatta! Ruro ichiban!

khan973
12-22-2013, 05:55 PM
Hey guys, they answered, so it's Windows and MacOSX, 32bit, 64bit
I think it's normal to be a bit annoyed to pay for a Lattice tool in 2013.
Back in 1995 I was playing with Truespace 3D that had a lattice deformer.

It's so useful that I don't mind paying but I understand people who do.

Ztreem
12-22-2013, 06:08 PM
Wow! Amazing set of tools, looks fantastic.

khan973
12-22-2013, 06:09 PM
Now I'm expecting a nice tool with gizmos to bend parts.
When I see what you can do with C4D, I'm jealous!

mummyman
12-22-2013, 06:28 PM
You know with my luck, I'll buy them, and LW will have some of these tools in their next version. Oh well. These look AMAZING!!!! Thanks khan973, for letting us know about 64 bit. Can't wait to test the lattice and metaballs stuff. I still have version 9.6 installed and use their old metaballs in Modeler to build blobby stuff! Crazy.

Ernest
12-22-2013, 06:29 PM
By my grandma's tailfeathers! This proves that Santa Claus rated the LW community as Nice!

jasonwestmas
12-22-2013, 07:15 PM
Jeezes, Lightwave has needed something like this forever, thanks!

lertola2
12-22-2013, 08:09 PM
I just put my order in. I'll let you know what happens.

Snosrap
12-22-2013, 09:02 PM
I just put my order in. I'll let you know what happens. Please do. I'm interested in the Meta Mesh and Heat Shrink.

vector
12-22-2013, 09:49 PM
Obviously LW is not up to your standards, you have choices so use them.

Well, I think Lattice is a basic tool that might be included in LW, we are not talking about Massive or advanced fluid simulation, just Lattice. Nice to see somebody demonstrates it's possible

djwaterman
12-22-2013, 10:06 PM
For any of those who are going to or have already bought this, can they do a quick test of the lattice deformer flattening a car tire as it rotates. I have wanted that for ages and it's not apparent from the samples whether this plugin will do that or not.

Photogram
12-22-2013, 11:20 PM
I hope to get the boolean tool working in the layout and animatable!!!

Greenlaw
12-23-2013, 01:05 AM
Thanks for posting that additional info--think I will be purchasing very soon too.

@djwaterman, regarding flattening tire, I used to do this effect many years ago using the native Normal Displacement tool to constrain a Morph Map. First you make a morph where the tire is 'flattened' all the way around. Then, in the Normal Displacement tool, switch it from Texture mode to Morph Map mode. Finally, use a gradient to mask the displacement through the region of the tire that's near the ground (the part that should look 'flattened'.) Very easy.

Bear in mind that I did this trick for cars racing on flat terrain (it was probably for a Need for Speed and/or Project Gotham Racing commerical.) Unfortunately, I'm not sure you can set this up for dynamic interaction with irregular terrain because I don't think you can animate the gradient. Maybe you can do something similar using the new Raycast tool? Just a thought.

Sorry, I don't have a more advanced version of this trick but maybe this will give you some ideas. My guess is that the Lattice tool will do the trick more 'correctly' since my old method was just a quick cheat I came up with to solve a specific problem.

G.

omichon
12-23-2013, 01:25 AM
Finally !!!
I thought it would never happen.


Now I'm expecting a nice tool with gizmos to bend parts.
When I see what you can do with C4D, I'm jealous!
That's also my expectation. To be truly interesting (at that cost) it has to support to be driven by any native constraint or control type (specially nodes).

adk
12-23-2013, 01:33 AM
Finally !!!
I thought it would never happen.


That's also my expectation. To be truly interesting (at that cost) it has to support to be driven by any native constraint or control type (specially nodes).

Would love if this was node compatible + capable of handling instancing too! But alas I think that's not so possible.

Olivier... front page of your website has Motion Graphics misspelled mate ;-) love your work btw.

omichon
12-23-2013, 01:45 AM
Would love if this was node compatible + capable of handling instancing too! But alas I think that's not so possible.

I just hope we could be surprised...it's christmas after all ;)


Olivier... front page of your website has Motion Graphics misspelled mate ;-) love your work btw.
doh ! thanks for the typo and comment, adk !

3rd Powers
12-23-2013, 01:56 AM
We are glad you like it.

>Is the meta mesh plugin a modeler or layout plugin?

Meta Mesh is a Modeler plugin.

>wonder what is the difference between the Cage Deformer and the Lattice Deformer?
>does the Lattice Deformer work with bones?...

Lattice is suitable for distorting its volume, 3D space.
Cage can be used to reshape the object. Cage will be also usable as a modeling tool.
In addition, both tools have their own independent timeline.

adk
12-23-2013, 01:56 AM
I just hope we could be surprised...it's christmas after all ;)


doh ! thanks for the typo and comment, adk !

Fingers crossed for Santa ... and no problem at all :thumbsup:
The rest of your site is immaculate so spelling had to match ;)

erikals
12-23-2013, 02:17 AM
I hope to get the boolean tool working in the layout and animatable!!!

DPont has a plugin that does that...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJynGqjrf40

Greenlaw
12-23-2013, 02:27 AM
@djwaterman, I just did a quick test using that cheap tire Normal Displacement trick. It still works, and even though you can't animate the gradient, you can animate the gradient's layer opacity. So in theory, you can link the opacity to an item that follows the terrain and get it to work interactively.

Sorry for getting a little OT for this thread--I needed to complete my digression. We now return you to the regular program. :)

Greenlaw
12-23-2013, 02:38 AM
DPont has a plugin that does that...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJynGqjrf40

3rd Powers version appears to work in Modeler though--that's an important distinction. In the video, their Boolean tool also appears to be more accurate than the native Modeler booleans. If so, I'm very interested in this tool.

But I'm not sure this tool works in Layout. I'm guessing not, so you're probably right that DP's tool is the way to go if you need to animate booleans.

G.

raw-m
12-23-2013, 03:09 AM
This is fantastic! As already mentioned, this is bound to be in LW12 but can't take that gamble or wait that long. It's going to be so useful, especially for animation, cut down on a lot of rigging.

khan973
12-23-2013, 03:13 AM
DPont has a plugin that does that...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJynGqjrf40

Yup I know but it's crashy and doesn't work well in all situations.
I tried to do it with an eye and all the parts of the eye and it didn't work well.

Waves of light
12-23-2013, 03:58 AM
Wow... and wow... and one more wow.

Look forward to some user videos soon, hint hint.

drako
12-23-2013, 04:10 AM
Excellent animation tools you have there but I think
that meta mesh is going to change the way we Modelling.
Cheers

prometheus
12-23-2013, 04:31 AM
Yupp..meta mesh is indeed interesting, and so is the boolean tools.
however..I suspect you can only use meta mesh with preconstructed parts, if we could get meta mesh to work with a sort of enhanced metaball,metaedge toolset that normally requires freezing in to tris, instead have that working with
meta mesh options, then it starts to compare to working with zbrush spheres sort of.
Someone just should do an update to metaedges,spheres that can convert to nice quads.

Mighty cool to use premade mesh stuff like hands,tails, spock ears etc:) and fuse them, so with a decent part library it will help workflow, I also hope we get a built in object preset manager shelf...maybe lightwave 12, so we could simply visually pick
a preset object part and drag drop in to modeler and fuse with metamesh, rather than go figure where did I put that part and how did that look like? as we have to do today.

Great stuff it seems, I will have to wait for this, and listning to those who have used it later on, and also see what lw 12 brings before getting this.

Michael

prometheus
12-23-2013, 05:43 AM
A suggestion to 3rd Powers...
Please do put up the video showcased on youtube on the front page of the plugin site, I couldn´t see it anywhere there, it will be easier for us to find later on rather than retracking it back to these pages, and it will also
be available for those checking the pages from elsewhere.

Michael

VermilionCat
12-23-2013, 05:47 AM
They seem very powerful and great. Congrats.
I'd like to see more detailed information about the tools which describes how to use them, how integrated they are.

djwaterman
12-23-2013, 06:07 AM
@djwaterman, I just did a quick test using that cheap tire Normal Displacement trick. It still works, and even though you can't animate the gradient, you can animate the gradient's layer opacity. So in theory, you can link the opacity to an item that follows the terrain and get it to work interactively.

Sorry for getting a little OT for this thread--I needed to complete my digression. We now return you to the regular program. :)

Hi Greenlaw, I'm trying your technique but I can't get it to work, the morph map just squashes all way round tire. There are details I'm unsure of, like what should the input parameter of the gradient be and so on. Can you post up a simple example of a working scene I wonder?

Still interested to see if these new plugins can do this.

50one
12-23-2013, 06:12 AM
This is fantastic! As already mentioned, this is bound to be in LW12 but can't take that gamble or wait that long. It's going to be so useful, especially for animation, cut down on a lot of rigging.

Wait? What? How come? Is the developer part of LW3DG?

RebelHill
12-23-2013, 06:33 AM
Very nice... Sure, as others have said something like lattice should be native... but then so should a lot of things (arguably). For lack of that though, its great that others are around to pick up the slack.

Id def be interested in seeing more detail on the function of lattice/cage deformers... How are their shapes/parameters driven.. how can they be hooked up to other control types, and where do their deforms evaluate.. before/after bones/optional, etc.

Great looking stuff though.

rcallicotte
12-23-2013, 06:42 AM
- - - Updated - - -

You mean, like RHiggit. :0


... but then so should a lot of things (arguably). For lack of that though, its great that others are around to pick up the slack.

rcallicotte
12-23-2013, 06:43 AM
So many cool things...

:) Very nice!!

hrgiger
12-23-2013, 07:11 AM
to the developer- great looking plug-ins!

a few questions:

On meta mesh; it appears from the video that meta mesh is adding an edge loop where meshes are joined. Is there a way to control the sharpness of that edge so you can make anything from a smooth transition to a sharp crease at mesh intersection?

And on the lattice and cage deformers; you say they have their own timelines. How does that match up to Layout timeline. Also, when you use lattice to do a corrective deformation, how can the lattice deforms be driven by the bending of the bones?

wesleycorgi
12-23-2013, 07:12 AM
This appears to be the same mad scientists that have been hinting at LW goodness for a few years now: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VDBAynYqiOA


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rfZe6UQ7yWg

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F3OYXS2iZtM


Let's hope some of the other ideas hatch as we'll.

erikals
12-23-2013, 08:56 AM
it's Ruro for sure... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

it might be possible to make Lattice in LightWave natively as well, as seen here >
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?138872-Which-is-best-way-to-animate-wheel-with-flat-tire&p=1356032&viewfull=1#post1356032

but this plugin probably makes things much easier.

jeric_synergy
12-23-2013, 10:24 AM
@djwaterman, I just did a quick test using that cheap tire Normal Displacement trick. It still works, and even though you can't animate the gradient, you can animate the gradient's layer opacity. So in theory, you can link the opacity to an item that follows the terrain and get it to work interactively.)
Just sticking my oar in:

While TMK you cannot animate the range values of a gradient, you can animate the keys WITHIN the gradient, nodally. Personally I've never found a use for that , but I dimly recall seeing someone solve a problem by animating the keys.

It made my bwain hurt, but worked a charm. Maybe it's applicable here.

JohnMarchant
12-23-2013, 11:21 AM
A free lattice tool for those who cant afford this yet. Pointed out by Steve Scott on LW FB Page


http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.neko.ne.jp%2F~asagi%2FP2P%2FPlu gins%2Flay.html&authuser=0

erikals
12-23-2013, 11:30 AM
A free lattice tool for those who cant afford this yet. Pointed out by Steve Scott on LW FB Page

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.neko.ne.jp%2F~asagi%2FP2P%2FPlu gins%2Flay.html&authuser=0

very limited though, as it only uses a box to deform the mesh.

JohnMarchant
12-23-2013, 02:24 PM
Agreed erikals, but it is free, would love to see more updates on a few of AS tools.

50one
12-23-2013, 02:57 PM
Sorry for repeating myself...but does anyone could tell me, where did you get the info about this being native in 12 from??

erikals
12-23-2013, 03:18 PM
that hasn't been said, it's more of a wish...

50one
12-23-2013, 03:25 PM
that hasn't been said, it's more of a wish...

Thx for clarification:) would be great tho.

jeric_synergy
12-23-2013, 03:29 PM
Sorry for repeating myself...but does anyone could tell me, where did you get the info about this being native in 12 from??

KHAN973 said he'd heard from them in this post:
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?139320-Cage-and-Lattice-Deformer-MetaMesh-Boolean-HeatShrink-Now-Available&p=1359406&viewfull=1#post1359406

BUT, the contact point is right there on the webpage: perhaps someone should suggest they include some more details in the descriptions.

Greenlaw
12-23-2013, 05:36 PM
Hi Greenlaw, I'm trying your technique but I can't get it to work, the morph map just squashes all way round tire. There are details I'm unsure of, like what should the input parameter of the gradient be and so on. Can you post up a simple example of a working scene I wonder?

Still interested to see if these new plugins can do this.
Tonight I'll PM you the file I was testing earlier with explanations. It's pretty simple once you see it.

I'm going to order these plug-ins shortly--will write what I think after I've played with them for a bit.

G.

jeric_synergy
12-23-2013, 06:28 PM
Greenlaw's technique should be possible with "proximity to a null" as a driver, and perhaps conceptually simpler. Larry's endomorph dvd's covered the technique extensively.


EDIT:
ATTACHED: an incredibly crappy morph that reacts to the proximity of a null. Move the null to see the effect on the mesh.

Hattip to RH's Nodal Tutorials (http://www.liberty3d.com/2013/06/rebel-hill-nodal-fundamentals-is-now-free/) on giving me the ability to whip this up in two minutes without reading any dox.

118879

EDIT2: I see it doesn't work if the distorted object is moved, but I'm sure that's a World Position issue. Enough of this thread-jack, I'll start another thread (http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?139351-Nodal-proximity-reaction-driving-morphs-by-proximity-to-null-plus-other-questions&p=1359600#post1359600).

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?139351-Nodal-proximity-reaction-driving-morphs-by-proximity-to-null-plus-other-questions&p=1359600#post1359600

lertola2
12-23-2013, 10:15 PM
Well I just got to play around with these tool for a while and I am impressed. The Meta Mesh is the tool I am most interested in. It can join objects with clean band of polygons. It produces results similar to zbrush's dynamesh function but in many ways it is better as it keeps the objects original geometry in areas that are away from the join. The objects that are being joined have to be closed volumes and non self intersecting. The objects do not have to be all quads. I got some good results joining objects that have ngons and also object that were gemlossed. The tool is nicely interactive. It works by clicking on one connected group of polygons. That group will become smoothly joined to any other group of polygons that it overlaps with. You can move the first clicked group of polygons around to reposition it. With heavy objects it slows down but I got some nice clean results joining two spheres with 50,000 polygons each.

I have not spent much time with the other tools yet. I did try all three of the modeler tools and the Lattice tool in Layout. I haven't gotten to the Cage deform tool yet. So far they are working as advertised.

-Joe

jeric_synergy
12-23-2013, 10:31 PM
Excellent news, lertola2. Looking forward to future reports.

VermilionCat
12-24-2013, 12:03 AM
Good news, keep them coming!
From what I know LW tools coming from Japan are very robust and trustworthy. PLG, Dstorm, Sunrise inhouse tools, they are all great. Hope this will be another addition!

jeric_synergy
12-24-2013, 12:08 AM
How's the documentation?

Hail
12-24-2013, 12:51 AM
Tonight I'll PM you the file I was testing earlier with explanations. It's pretty simple once you see it.

G.

I am also interested as well.
Would be super nice if you could share the files here or at least add me to the pm list:)

djwaterman
12-24-2013, 01:19 AM
I'd really like someone to test the lattice cage to see if it has to remain attached to the mesh it is deforming or if the mesh can pass through it and be affected while the cage remains in its own space.

jeric_synergy
12-24-2013, 01:41 AM
djwaterman: I'll bet you one Voodoo Donut that you can do the ol' "morph thru the bones" trick, even if the devs haven't explicitly implemented it.

lertola2
12-24-2013, 07:16 AM
How's the documentation?

There is a brief pdf file for each of the plugins. Each pdf first lists the features and then gives an example for use.


I'd really like someone to test the lattice cage to see if it has to remain attached to the mesh it is deforming or if the mesh can pass through it and be affected while the cage remains in its own space.

The lattice objects does not have to remain attached to an object. The lattice is an independent object on its own and you can move it around and through objects or you can move the objects through them.

khan973
12-24-2013, 08:30 AM
Lattice tool is nice too, it works very well and creates very smooths results.

I tried to put the lattice shape somewhere and pass the object through. If it's too far or at a 90° angle, the object once it passes through jumps to the position it should be without the Lattice.

I would also love to be abl to attach a group of lattice points to a Null. But as a Lattice is a polygon, maybe I can attach a bone to some parts of the Lattice, I have to try.

jeric_synergy
12-24-2013, 10:07 AM
There is a brief pdf file for each of the plugins. Each pdf first lists the features and then gives an example for use.

The lattice objects does not have to remain attached to an object. The lattice is an independent object on its own and you can move it around and through objects or you can move the objects through them.
This is absolute PORN for Lightwave users....

Khan973, the demo videos show the lattice flexing, so I assumed (that word!) that it was being flexed with bones, is this not true? Is the flexing instead via endomorph?

I encourage everybody who bought this to start uploading examples and videos to LightWiki.

djwaterman
12-24-2013, 10:10 AM
Yay!

50one
12-24-2013, 10:11 AM
This is absolute PORN for Lightwave users....

No, this is like the German Pron, even more hardCORE:)

jeric_synergy
12-24-2013, 10:18 AM
Khan973, do you already have a rig where POINTS are attached, essentially Childed,, to a null?

(But yeah, a Bone already does that, and is probably easier-- that's their whole function.)


So so far, no "gotchas" or provisos? I may HAVE to go into debt....again.....

Greenlaw
12-24-2013, 12:04 PM
I am also interested as well.
Would be super nice if you could share the files here or at least add me to the pm list:)
Sure...I'll post it to that other thread about creating this effect. Sorry, running a little behind with the holidays. Will do that when I get back home this afternoon.

G.

lertola2
12-24-2013, 01:11 PM
This is absolute PORN for Lightwave users....

Khan973, the demo videos show the lattice flexing, so I assumed (that word!) that it was being flexed with bones, is this not true? Is the flexing instead via endomorph?

I encourage everybody who bought this to start uploading examples and videos to LightWiki.

The lattice are not affected by bones. It is its own system separate from Lightwave. Whey you open the lattice tools command you get a window with tools for manipulating the lattice. I think the tools are robust and you can do a lot with them. You can select lattice points individually or by lasso and manipulate them with the other tools. Lattice also has its own timeline that appears at the bottom of the window when the lattice tools are open so you can work with lattice keyframes. You can move, copy or delete the keyframes either individually or as a selected group. The keyframes can be either linear or smooth. I don't believe you can see or edit lattice keyframes in the graph editor or scene editor. Apart from the lattice tools you can also move and rotate the lattice object within the Lightwave scene itself but you can not scale it. I have not 100% wrapped my brain around how this kind of manipulation affects the objects that penetrate the lattice.


http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118886&d=1387914146

jeric_synergy
12-24-2013, 02:14 PM
Lertola2, thanks and keep 'em coming! (You're going to sell a bunch of these for 3rd Powers.) :thumbsup:

ernpchan
12-24-2013, 02:37 PM
It's nice that there's a lattice tool now, but the separation of lattice keyframes from the Graph Editor is disappointing. Is the lattice keyframe editor as robust as the GE? Can you edit position of the lattice keyframes or is it just timing?

tyrot
12-24-2013, 05:17 PM
Plus - does this translation can be seen by external renderer such as Octane? -

a video review could be really nice...

Greenlaw
12-24-2013, 07:18 PM
If not directly, I imagine you can bake it to MDD or other cache file--then it should be fine in any external renderer.

G.

Greenlaw
12-25-2013, 01:16 AM
Just got my Special Pack Go 2014 license key. So far I've had time to try MetaMesh, Boolean and Heat Shrink Plus--not in depth by any means, just a quick run around the block. I haven't read the docs yet but the tools seem very intuitive. MetaMesh is pretty cool--works as advertised: just select some mesh and activate it. The panel has several options for how the mesh should interact with unselected mesh in the same layer. Boolean is similar except the selected mesh is in a different layer. It's really fast and appears to be a lot more forgiving than native Boolean operations. If so, I hope 3rd Powers will make their own fracturing tool. I'm sure there are rules to follow--will read up on that later. MetaMesh works with subpatches or polygons but Boolean appears to work only with polygons--more specifically, it will work in subpatch mode but the operations are done using the unsubpatched state of the objects--that's not too surprising really. I haven't tried any of the layout tools yet.

So far, my tests have been very simple but the tools have already proven their usefulness to me.

Please bear in mind that I haven't read the docs so I could be wrong about any of this--the above is purely my first impressions. Will read the docs and put the 3rd Powers suite through some real testing tomorrow, that is, assuming family holiday stuff doesn't take up all my time. :)

G.

erikals
12-25-2013, 03:55 AM
hm, wonder,...

- does the Cage Deformer have a reset function, so i can revert the cage back to it's original shape?...
- are the Cage Deformer verticies accessible in the graph editor?...
- will the TA Pose plugin work together with Cage Deformer to save poses?

lertola2
12-25-2013, 08:15 AM
hm, wonder,...

- does the Cage Deformer have a reset function, so i can revert the cage back to it's original shape?...
- are the Cage Deformer verticies accessible in the graph editor?...
- will the TA Pose plugin work together with Cage Deformer to save poses?

There is a reset function. It is called Set Zero-Key and it creates a key frame at the current time for the cage in its undeformed state.

I have only looked at the example files for the cage deformer so I don't know everything about it yet. The cage deformer is the most complex of the plugins. It works like the lattice tool but instead of a lattice you create the cage in modeler as a separate layer. You can work with a cage either with or without bones.

Without bones is the simpler method. Like the lattice you get a tool panel with a lot of tools for manipulating the cage. There are even more tools than for the lattice. You can see the tool box in the attached screen shot. The tools at the top are standard ones that we are familiar with in Lightwave. You can limit the action of the tools by selecting points individually or with the selection lasso. If no points are selected then all points are considered selected. The different grab tools are more interesting and they allow you to grab a part of the cage and pull it to deform its shape. You can set the size of the influence of these tools. The GrabBody preserves the volume of the object while you distort it. The GrabSkin preserves the polygon area. The ReBody and Erase tools look like they will be very useful. In playing with the desk lamp example shown in the screen shot I was able to use the erase tool to put the base of the lamp back into its starting position which left the neck very distorted. Then I used the ReBody tool on the neck which did a great job of pulling the neck into a reasonable shape. In addition to shaping the cage with the tools provided you can also create morphs for your cage in modeler.

You can also have bones either in your base object or your cage object. The cage deformer follows along with the deforming shape of the cage object as it affected by bones. On top of that motion you sculpt the cage with the cage tools. So this plugin should be great for sculpting corrections and muscle bulges in animated figures. Like the lattice tool the cage tool has its own timeline that is visible when the cage tool is open. You can move, copy and delete key frames easily.

The motion of the cage deformer itself is not visible in the graph editor. But the bones that are driving the displacement should still be visible in the graph editor. And I would guess the the TA Pose plugins should work normally on the bones.


http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118892&d=1387981539

jeric_synergy
12-25-2013, 10:16 AM
The more I hear, the more I like. (Hopefully 3rdP devs are reading this thread and working towards answering our questions.)

Thanks to all the early adopters for their reports: I'm certainly trying to figure out how to buy this.

Cageman
12-25-2013, 05:48 PM
I'm certainly trying to figure out how to buy this.

It's easy... You Need Money... ;)

Oedo 808
12-25-2013, 06:55 PM
It's easy... You Need Money... ;)

Is that you offering the services of your wallet? :D

jeric_synergy
12-26-2013, 12:18 AM
It's easy... You Need Money... ;)
**rubs chin** 'Money', you say? What is this 'money' of which you speak?

sami
12-26-2013, 01:31 AM
There is a brief pdf file for each of the plugins. Each pdf first lists the features and then gives an example for use.



The lattice objects does not have to remain attached to an object. The lattice is an independent object on its own and you can move it around and through objects or you can move the objects through them.

Great, that sound like it works like Megafiers for Unity's lattice stuff!

khan973
12-26-2013, 02:25 AM
The lattice are not affected by bones. It is its own system separate from Lightwave. Whey you open the lattice tools command you get a window with tools for manipulating the lattice. I think the tools are robust and you can do a lot with them. You can select lattice points individually or by lasso and manipulate them with the other tools. Lattice also has its own timeline that appears at the bottom of the window when the lattice tools are open so you can work with lattice keyframes. You can move, copy or delete the keyframes either individually or as a selected group. The keyframes can be either linear or smooth. I don't believe you can see or edit lattice keyframes in the graph editor or scene editor. Apart from the lattice tools you can also move and rotate the lattice object within the Lightwave scene itself but you can not scale it. I have not 100% wrapped my brain around how this kind of manipulation affects the objects that penetrate the lattice.

What I meant, is that I would love to use Lattice to automate some deformations. Which means being able to tie lattices points or deformations to Nulls.
The only solution I see is save transformed then Morph or use Cycler if it works.

omichon
12-26-2013, 02:43 AM
What I meant, is that I would love to use Lattice to automate some deformations. Which means being able to tie lattices points or deformations to Nulls.
The only solution I see is save transformed then Morph or use Cycler if it works.
I agree Khan, the "isolated" aspect of this plugin is a little frustrating IMO. I can easily imagine situations where a lattice would be controlled by other items in the scene.
That said, looks like a great solution waiting for a more integrated solution from the LW3D group (???).

Samus
12-26-2013, 10:46 AM
Well 3dCel has been busy... that earth boolean video was online for a while. Well now there getting down to busyness! Good for us! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDBAynYqiOA

jeric_synergy
12-26-2013, 10:50 AM
I guess it's all down to, and I'm hoping we'll learn within a week or two, exactly how isolated the lattice is from the rest of the scene. --My hope is that Bones can get in there: individual points (and groups) can be easily isolated via W.Maps for influence by single bones. If Nulls are problematic I don't see any need to go down that road-- that's what bones are for.

Still, and I've always noticed this among the Amigan/Lightwave community, it's important to focus on the POSSIBILITIES, not the shortcomings of a feature. Potential is the thing: fer sure it's far beyond what we currently have.

Also, if we support the product, the producers can make more and better offerings.

EDIT: plus, let not neglect nodal possibilities: if we can get at the lattice point positions via nodal motion, people might get the features they want.

jeric_synergy
12-26-2013, 11:28 AM
Well 3dCel has been busy... that earth boolean video was online for a while. Well now there getting down to busyness! Good for us! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDBAynYqiOA
That was two years ago: is there news??

hrgiger
12-26-2013, 12:13 PM
That was two years ago: is there news??

These plug-ins are the news. Same developer.

jeric_synergy
12-26-2013, 12:54 PM
Ahh, that was not clear to me.

There's an interesting thing about the Boolean globe demo'd there: how's the interior surface magically working????

hrgiger
12-26-2013, 02:29 PM
Eric if its anything like a typical boolean operation, surface details of cutting object are typically transferred to intersecting geometry.

May look at picking up the suite of plugs while introductory offer is still good through end of January.

UnCommonGrafx
12-26-2013, 02:38 PM
I'm going to get them because someone is supporting LW.

I am also hoping this is a "live" survey; how desired are these tools and should lw3dg incorporate?

I speculate and am going to vote yes.

jeric_synergy
12-26-2013, 03:05 PM
Let 3rd Powers make some money first.

Greenlaw
12-26-2013, 04:32 PM
Finally got to play with the two layout plugins for a short while today, Lattice Deformer and Cage Deformer. Here are a few brief comments, mainly first impressions again.

The Lattice Deformer is very simple in design and easy to use--you can deform anything that falls inside the lattice by reshaping a 'box' by simply grabbing and moving points. There are many options available for manipulating the lattice deformer, including direct point move and magnet style brushes. You can adjust the number of segments in the lattice. You can parent the lattice deformer to any object, including the object being deformed, or vice versa. Unfortunately, you can't drive the animation with other LightWave items, at least not directly--as mentioned previously, there is no access to the keys through Graph Editor. Not a deal killer but it's a certainly a limitation.

Cage Deformer can be a bit more powerful in that it uses a modeled cage and you can deform it with the bones of a character. It's a more advanced tool and I don't understand it completely yet. However, it seems to have the same limitation as Lattice--no direct access to keys through GE.

Otherwise, the tools work really well--they're very responsive in Layout.

Both tools use a secondary timeline. I'm not a big fan of secondary timelines in LightWave, and this one seems a bit limited. For example, you can't edit curves in GE, but you can switch between different interpolation types between keyframes. That's not great but it should be fine for many situations.

What surprises me was that there doesn't appear to be any way to copy and paste keys to another frame on the timeline. Unless I'm mistaken, if you perform a correction to a character's pose (a pinched joint, for example,) you will have to manually make that same correction each time the character makes that pose. That's a little disappointing.

NOTE: My mistake! It turns out you can drag copy a single key or a range of selected keys on the timeline. It's not direct copy and paste of keys, which I think is preferable for long animations, but at least you can do re-use your 'sculpted' deformations within the same scene file.

If anybody figures out how to drive the deformations using nodal, that would be really cool.

All that said, yeah, I could have used these tools a month or two ago--this is still a very powerful set of tools. What they do is quite remarkable to see inside of LightWave and, of course, this is only the first release. Hopefully, the developer has plans for expanding the capabilities of these tools before too long.

Curious to hear what other users think about these tools. If I've made an incorrect statement or assumption in this post, please let me know.

G.

Greenlaw
12-26-2013, 04:41 PM
Oh, wait...I just re-read Lertola2's post on the other page, which states that I should be able to copy and paste keys. I guess I need to take another look at that because this capability increases the usefulness of these plug-ins quite a bit.

G.

Greenlaw
12-26-2013, 04:47 PM
Okay, my mistake. You can select a range of keys and drag copy keys to another section of the timeline. There's probably more to this--I need to read the manual again when I'm less tired and less distracted by my offspring I think. :)

Anyway, this makes me feel a lot better about getting these tools. I can definitely use these tools when we return to animating 'B2'.

G.

Greenlaw
12-26-2013, 05:10 PM
Just thinking about how to use this immediately for CA. I guess one workflow for a character that needs corrective deformations is to 'pre-roll' your deformations in negative keyframes. Then, when you're done animating the character, you can drag-copy the corrections to the keyframes that need them. That's not an ideal workflow but it's a usable one until somebody figures out how to link this tool to other items in layout.

Obviously, I haven't put this workflow into practice yet. Also, I don't know if this data carries over with Load Items from Scene yet. If somebody gets to try this, let me know how it works for you.

G.

jeric_synergy
12-26-2013, 05:16 PM
Greenlaw, are you able to go back to your post and revise it? I dont' want anybody freekin' out.

I wonder if the developers would have any issues with their PDFs getting distributed. I sure hope they're reading this thread, and have no translation issues.

Greenlaw
12-26-2013, 05:26 PM
No, except for the bit about copying keys, I pretty much stand by what I wrote. Just want to keep expectations in check--I don't want to hear people "freekin' out" after they buy the tools. That never plays out well. But I'll go back and add a note next to the error since that's a pretty big one.

Besides, I think I've said this multiple times already: this is still an incredibly powerful suite of tools. If I can manage the time, I'll put together some demos. These tools are certainly fun to play with and I'm glad we have this available for Lightwave now. :)

BTW, PDF distribution should be left to the developers--it's their properly and currently they're only including docs with paid licenses.

G.

jeric_synergy
12-26-2013, 05:50 PM
Yeah, but the copying keys thing is a pretty big deal. At least, "SEE LATER POSTS" would refer forum readers.
+++

So, do the meshes that comprise the Lattice and the Cage NOT appear to, say, the Displacement Node Editor? Or, are they the next to last thing to get deformed, and hence immune from all the methods we have of deforming meshes?


re PDFs: that's why I asked. I mean, getting tired of all this SPECULATION, when I could just read the damn dox.

Greenlaw
12-26-2013, 06:18 PM
Re: nodal access--don't know. Nothing in the docs about it. Hopefully somebody a lot smarter than me can answer this. :p

Re: PDF. I understand. My comment was actually directed at anybody thinking of posting the docs to this forum. It would be in bad form without written permission from the developers.

FWIW, the docs are well written but they're also brief because the plug-ins are very easy to use. Except for specific installation and operating instructions, how the tools work and what they do (including limitations) has been mostly covered in this thread by now. I think any deeper information will have to come from users experimenting with the tools.

I'll post more info if I stumble into something really interesting with these tools.

G.

Greenlaw
12-26-2013, 06:22 PM
I wonder if the Lattice and Cage Deformers will work on top of MDD animation. If so, I can see how these tools might serve a similar purpose as Chronosculpt, except they work directly inside of Layout which can have advantages. Just a thought. BRB with info.

Edit: Oh, I guess Cage might not be as useful here since it needs the bones to follow the animation. In this case, Lattice might be more useful. (Well, depending on what you're trying to do I mean. I'm still thinking of specific situations from freelance gig a couple of months ago.)

G.

jeric_synergy
12-26-2013, 06:34 PM
Re: nodal access--don't know. Nothing in the docs about it.

SNIP!

FWIW, the docs are well written but they're also brief because the plug-ins are very easy to use. Except for specific installation and operating instructions, how the tools work and what they do (including limitations) has been mostly covered in this thread by now. I think any deeper information will have to come from users experimenting with the tools.
To me, the fact that we have these unanswered questions means the docs are too short.

Surely anybody would be able to guess that a bunch of animators would want to know these things. I'm not even saying they have to tell us HOW -- although I hope it's obvious that would be optimum -- but it'd be nice to know if our various ideas are even possible.

That is: 3rd Power doesn't have to construct networks for us, but it'd be nice to know whether displacement networks would work at all.

Probably the easiest solution for them is to start their own forum. A WordPress site would be more than adequate, considering the extremely limited audience. Heck, LW3DG should just give them a place here, and save them website administration worries.

Greenlaw
12-26-2013, 06:41 PM
Did a quick test--can't seem to affect MDD objects with Lattice, at least not in my simple test. But in practice, I'm not sure this would be that useful for this purpose anyway. Oh, well. Will continue playing.

Edit: I take that back. After some more fiddling, I did get Lattice to affect an MDD deforming object. Not convinced this is useful but maybe it is for somebody. At least we know you can do this.

G.

Greenlaw
12-26-2013, 07:09 PM
Almost forgot: baking the deformations to MDD works fine. So, to answer the question about compatibility with external renderers, if it supports MDD, it should work fine.

djwaterman
12-26-2013, 07:12 PM
Greenlaw, thanks for the considerable reviews, and I'll look forward to any tutorials you may do in the future. So far Lattice sounds like it's what we have always wanted, I'd get the Cage Deformer but it is expensive. However if an animation job comes up that requires it then that would justify buying it. It's just lovely to know there are these options available now. Those guys are good.

Greenlaw
12-26-2013, 07:28 PM
Answering another one of my own questions: Cage and Lattice Deformers and the animated keyframes on the secondary timeline come in just fine with Load Items From Scene. That's good to know.

lertola2
12-26-2013, 07:46 PM
I hate to gush but I am going to. I am very impressed with these plugins. Usually when you get newly released version 1 software you find bugs quickly. I am not saying that there are no bugs but I have not found any so far. I can see how the Lattice and Cage deformers could be a real game changer for those who do a lot of animation. I do a lot of modeling and for me the Meta Mesh tool is the game changer. I would recommend that anyone who can not get the whole suite of tools to get that one. You just have to overlap two objects and click on one with the Meta Mesh tool and the objects become joined with clean and logical set of polygons. There are controls for how tightly the merge happens so you can make the join smoother or tighter. The tool also sets edge sharpness on the new connection so if you use Catmull-Clark subdivision you can have a sharp crease at the join.

Many of the models I work with are rendered with transparency so they need a nice clean shell. The objects can not have any internal overlapping. Up to now I have been using zbrush to merge objects and get nice smooth slightly rounded connections and a clean shell. I would send objects to zbrush, dynamesh them together or subtract them as needed. Then remesh them to reduce the polygon count and then send it back to modeler. This gives nice clean rounded joins between objects but it completely changes the polygon geometry and it ruins any sharp edges in the objects. The Meta Mesh tool, on the other hand, makes nice clean joins and keeps your original geometry in areas away from the join. And it keeps the original uv map and surfaces which that zbrush process does not. In the attached image you can see the smooth, clean rounded joins between shapes that the Meta Mesh tool makes. Those kind of joins are very hard to make by hand.

Also I have done many jobs where I had to manually join two objects polygon by polygon because that was the easiest way to do it. I don't think I need to do that kind of labor any more because of the Meta Mesh tool. It is so simple and easy to use. The interactivity is smooth. It does unions or subtractions. Its a very useful tool.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118921&d=1388112131

jeric_synergy
12-26-2013, 08:10 PM
A very useful review, Lertola2. Thanks!

Greenlaw
12-26-2013, 08:57 PM
Oh, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. When I prepped our model of Sparklepus for 3D printing, I had to merge all the parts, which was not easily doable in Modeler--it didn't help that the model was never meant for 3D printing, it was strictly designed for the couple of shots in our short film. I wound up using 3D Coat to convert the mesh to voxels and then remeshing it in that program. I also used 3D Coat's voxel-based Booleans to cut up the model for assembly after printing. Here's the blog entry on that project:

Our First 3D Print: Sparklepus! (http://littlegreendog.blogspot.com/2013/07/our-first-3d-print-sparklepus.html)

No complaints about 3D Coat but I think 3rd Power's MetaMesh and Boolean tools might have allowed me to keep the entire project inside LightWave, and perhaps gotten it done more quickly.

G.

erikals
12-27-2013, 02:19 AM
I wonder if the Lattice and Cage Deformers will work on top of MDD animation...

Edit: Oh, I guess Cage might not be as useful here since it needs the bones to follow the animation....)

i think you can use bones on an MDD object if you use DPont node item motion >
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEzAX1yQxNI

Greenlaw
12-27-2013, 07:19 AM
i think you can use bones on an MDD object if you use DPont node item motion >
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEzAX1yQxNI

Good idea. If it works, that sounds like an alternative to using Chronosculpt for editing MDDs like Bullet sims--just use a bone to grab and move items around. I started thinking you could use Lattice or Cage to deform an MDD like this but that was a dumb idea--using bones would be better if you can use them. (But if it's available, Chronosculpt might be better for this.)

Just for clarity, I felt using Cage on an MDD'd character wouldn't be so useful because you need the original skeleton to make the cage follow the MDD, and if you have the skeleton in your scene, you don't really need the MDD to begin with. If the scenario was that you animated in another program so you have an MDD plus you have the skeleton from an imported FBX, well, presumably you used the other program to get better deformations to begin off with, so you wouldn't be doing these kind of tweaks in Layout.

Sorry...just thinking out loud for different ways to use these tools and upon reflection that one didn't make sense. (A lot of my ideas don't really.) :p

Hmm...I do see potential for doing 'warpy' effects on an MDD'd character. For example, you could bake a point from the MDD to a null using ClothFX, and then parent a Lattice to that. Now you have a Lattice that tracks the MDD'd character and allows you to abuse the MDD'd character in new and interesting ways. A few jobs past jobs come to mind where I could have used that. Or am I thinking about the clients? :D

Anyway, like Lertola2, I probably have more immediate uses here for the Modeling tools, and I think I'll find interesting uses for the Layout tools as future projects come along.

G.

Ztreem
12-27-2013, 08:06 AM
Good idea. If it works, that sounds like an alternative to using Chronosculpt for editing MDDs like Bullet sims--just use a bone to grab and move items around. I started thinking you could use Lattice or Cage to deform an MDD like this but that was a dumb idea--using bones would be better if you can use them. (But if it's available, Chronosculpt might be better for this.)


G.

It works just fine, I've tested to do some editing to a mdd simulation ala chronosculpt and you can do a lot with the node editor inside lightwave. I was thinking about doing a chronosculpt lite tutorial but it's hard to find the time.

gordonp
12-27-2013, 10:33 AM
Lertola,
You wrote the review I was waiting for. I do mostly modeling too. And I wanted to know more about the Meta Mesh tool before puling the trigger on the purchase.
I looks like it'll work perfectly for me. Thanks!



I hate to gush but I am going to. I am very impressed with these plugins. Usually when you get newly released version 1 software you find bugs quickly. I am not saying that there are no bugs but I have not found any so far. I can see how the Lattice and Cage deformers could be a real game changer for those who do a lot of animation. I do a lot of modeling and for me the Meta Mesh tool is the game changer. I would recommend that anyone who can not get the whole suite of tools to get that one. You just have to overlap two objects and click on one with the Meta Mesh tool and the objects become joined with clean and logical set of polygons. There are controls for how tightly the merge happens so you can make the join smoother or tighter. The tool also sets edge sharpness on the new connection so if you use Catmull-Clark subdivision you can have a sharp crease at the join.

Many of the models I work with are rendered with transparency so they need a nice clean shell. The objects can not have any internal overlapping. Up to now I have been using zbrush to merge objects and get nice smooth slightly rounded connections and a clean shell. I would send objects to zbrush, dynamesh them together or subtract them as needed. Then remesh them to reduce the polygon count and then send it back to modeler. This gives nice clean rounded joins between objects but it completely changes the polygon geometry and it ruins any sharp edges in the objects. The Meta Mesh tool, on the other hand, makes nice clean joins and keeps your original geometry in areas away from the join. And it keeps the original uv map and surfaces which that zbrush process does not. In the attached image you can see the smooth, clean rounded joins between shapes that the Meta Mesh tool makes. Those kind of joins are very hard to make by hand.

Also I have done many jobs where I had to manually join two objects polygon by polygon because that was the easiest way to do it. I don't think I need to do that kind of labor any more because of the Meta Mesh tool. It is so simple and easy to use. The interactivity is smooth. It does unions or subtractions. Its a very useful tool.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118921&d=1388112131

GraphXs
12-27-2013, 02:13 PM
Wow...really great tools! Love the meta mesh! The boolean is really great...im using them to create realtime models..love how it triples the mesh on the fly! Just played with the lattice deformer, it takes alittle while to get used to its undo system. The modifier is well done, and tge timeline is not bad, easy to move keys. The only thing i dont like is it doesn't match the lw timeline. Does anyone know how to make it match? Maybe in a future request it can be linked to it? Great job, glad that lw has such amazing third party support.

Greenlaw
12-27-2013, 06:37 PM
The only thing i dont like is it doesn't match the lw timeline. Does anyone know how to make it match? Maybe in a future request it can be linked to it? Great job, glad that lw has such amazing third party support.

I don't think you can but you can slide the timeline left and right--that's not really a solution but you can at least match up the 0 points (or another matching reference frame if you wish) this way. You probably know how to do this already but, just in case, left-click and hold the cursor on the upper part of the timeline, then drag left or right. There doesn't appear to be a way to contract or expand the timeline though.

BTW, some LW users may not be aware of this but you can do the same thing with Layout's timeline. To slide the Layout timeline, hold down the ALT key and left-click and drag the cursor over the regular timeline.

G.

ernpchan
12-27-2013, 06:41 PM
Hopefully the developer(s) plan on improving the toolset. I'm going to pick all of these up. Just have to remember to do this before the promo ends.

BigHache
12-27-2013, 09:11 PM
Did anyone else have any difficulty installing the plug-ins? I believe that I've done everything according to the installation PDF but I'm getting no different functionality than before I registered.

Greenlaw
12-28-2013, 01:00 AM
How do you mean? Did you receive your key yet? If you haven't done so, you need to fill out and email a form with some codes to get a key. Did you get the full suite or specific plug-ins? There are different code formats to enter depending on what you bought.

Assuming the plug-ins have been activated, are they doing anything at all?

If you got Cage and/or Lattice, you'll probably want to set up menu buttons for them. Each plug-in has two, one to add the deformer to the scene and one to open the control panel for it. (I have mine nested in Add and Tool sub-menus to reduce screen space.) You also need to add a plug-in to the object being deformed by the deformer for it to work.

If you got the Modeler plug-ins, you need to select some geometry first.

G.

bobakabob
12-28-2013, 04:23 AM
Great to see Modeler updated so radically. The boolean plugs look like they have some essential features of Zbrush's insert mesh combined with auto uv remapping. And animateable point manipulation in Layout has been the 'Holy Grail' for years.

Lertola and Greenlaw, thanks for the insights and reviews. Just a couple of questions, I'd be grateful for a response:

* Can the cage deformer be used effectively for facial animation?
* How does the meta mesh Boolean plugin respond to combining meshes of different densities?
Cheers!

BigHache
12-28-2013, 07:47 AM
I registered and installed my license key file. When I select one of the plug-ins it gives me the same message as before I installed the license key. It just doesn't seem to see the license file. Not sure why as I followed the PDF.

Samus
12-28-2013, 11:19 AM
This appears to be the same mad scientists that have been hinting at LW goodness for a few years now: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VDBAynYqiOA
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rfZe6UQ7yWg
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F3OYXS2iZtM
Let's hope some of the other ideas hatch as we'll.

That's 3DCel...his got a blog

http://www.3dcel.jp/index_rtboolean.html
http://www.3dcel.jp/index_weightpaint.html
http://www.3dcel.jp/index_weightpaint.html

Greenlaw
12-28-2013, 04:36 PM
Can the cage deformer be used effectively for facial animation?

Technically, you can do this. The one draw back is that you can't tie the cage animation to any external controls, so you will have to manually 'sculpt' the face deformations as you work through the scene. There is no way to store deformations for re-use either, unless you store the keyframes at the beginning of your scene. (i.e., 'pre-rolling' before frame zero is an old trick--I used to do this for storing keyframes for hand poses. That should fill until an official 'pose' feature is put in place.)


How does the meta mesh Boolean plugin respond to combining meshes of different densities?
Cheers!

Good question. Here's a quick test I just tried:

118973 118972 118974 118975

Lovely, isn't it? In realtime too. :)

G.

Greenlaw
12-28-2013, 04:46 PM
BTW, HeatShrink just got an update to 1.01. I guess this means the dev is not resting yet and that the plug-ins will continue to see development. :)

Greenlaw
12-28-2013, 04:49 PM
When I select one of the plug-ins it gives me the same message as before I installed the license key.

What's the message? No ideas yet, just wondering. Is it the small panel with the code you're supposed to submit? If so, I would get back in touch with the dev--it may be that they sent you an incorrect activation key file for your LightWave license.

G.

BigHache
12-28-2013, 05:57 PM
I've reached out to the dev and they're helping me. Not sure what happened yet but we'll get there. Maybe the code didn't generate correctly, or I typed in a 0 instead of O. I'm sure it's something simple.

Snosrap
12-28-2013, 10:59 PM
Here's a quick test I just tried:

118973 118972 118974 118975

Lovely, isn't it? In realtime too. :)

G.

Okay - that is freaking awesome!

BigHache
12-28-2013, 11:14 PM
OK I just figured out my ailment. These plug-ins do not appear to work with custom Configs folder for multiple version installations. I forget that some things don't like that. Not a big deal, just good to know. Major props to the developer for emailing me this weekend and helping out.

Greenlaw
12-28-2013, 11:20 PM
Ah, that's good to know. Currently I'm using the default location for configs but I normally like to use custom locations too. Thanks for the heads up.

I wonder if it will work with custom locations if you use a dongle?

G.

willin
12-29-2013, 01:38 AM
Do this plugins get tied to your lightwave license or to the computer? In other words, would I be able to install it in my laptop and in my desktop and on my work computer as long as I am using only one at any particular time? Thank you.

erikals
12-29-2013, 04:21 AM
with Lattice i guess we can do something like this now... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif
it won't be 100% the same, but close...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjbckqGBtWQ

djwaterman
12-29-2013, 05:18 AM
I've posted that video a few times in relation to Chronosculpt, I'm hoping they further develop it in that direction.

H_Molla
12-29-2013, 08:30 AM
Amazing plugin..the best thing happen to LW from years..am enjoying it till death..
There is an update posted today..

Greenlaw
12-29-2013, 06:50 PM
Do this plugins get tied to your lightwave license or to the computer? In other words, would I be able to install it in my laptop and in my desktop and on my work computer as long as I am using only one at any particular time? Thank you.

Another good question. I believe it's keyed to your LightWave license, not the computer, but let me check on this tonight to be sure. I currently have it on my tablet PC but I'll need to run it on my workstation most of the time.

G.

GoatDude
12-29-2013, 07:14 PM
Another good question. I believe it's keyed to your LightWave license, not the computer, but let me check on this tonight to be sure. I currently have it on my tablet PC but I'll need to run it on my workstation most of the time.

G.

It's keyed to LW License. Have it installed on workstation and laptop

Greenlaw
12-30-2013, 10:45 AM
Ah, good. Thanks for the info. (Too busy with another project right to check.)

G.

bobakabob
12-30-2013, 02:24 PM
Technically, you can do this. The one draw back is that you can't tie the cage animation to any external controls, so you will have to manually 'sculpt' the face deformations as you work through the scene. There is no way to store deformations for re-use either, unless you store the keyframes at the beginning of your scene. (i.e., 'pre-rolling' before frame zero is an old trick--I used to do this for storing keyframes for hand poses. That should fill until an official 'pose' feature is put in place.)

Good question. Here's a quick test I just tried:

118973 118972 118974 118975

Lovely, isn't it? In realtime too. :)
G.

Thanks, Greenlaw, Metamesh seems very robust and is capable of creating complex booleans unthinkable in Modeler a few days ago. It's like having a mini ZBrush "insert mesh" inside Lightwave :)

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/71/186025647_788508b828_b.jpg

jeric_synergy
12-30-2013, 03:56 PM
Whoa! --I hope they get the front page on the next monthly 'newsletter'!!

Snosrap
12-30-2013, 10:07 PM
Metamesh seems very robust and is capable of creating complex booleans unthinkable in Modeler a few days ago. It's like having a mini ZBrush "insert mesh" inside Lightwave :)

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/71/186025647_788508b828_b.jpg How is this even possible!!!! Freaking amazing!

erikals
12-30-2013, 10:28 PM
so... question here for 3rd Powers,
- any way to save / load Cage Deform poses? (using IKB or TA Pose Tools)
yes...?..

(this is a good alternative though >)

There is a reset function. It is called Set Zero-Key and it creates a key frame at the current time for the cage in its undeformed state.

second question,
- is it possible for the cage to use a morph?

bazsa73
12-31-2013, 12:33 AM
Thanks, Greenlaw, Metamesh seems very robust and is capable of creating complex booleans unthinkable in Modeler a few days ago. It's like having a mini ZBrush "insert mesh" inside Lightwave :)


Quite convincing bro!

H_Molla
12-31-2013, 12:49 AM
Whoa! --I hope they get the front page on the next monthly 'newsletter'!!

What a plugin, a simple thing that Maya & XSI had from ages; just arrived to lightwave...
But thank god it is really neat & nice..
I wish they really put on front page..

omichon
12-31-2013, 01:45 AM
What a plugin, a simple thing that Maya & XSI had from ages; just arrived to lightwave...
But thank god it is really neat & nice..
I wish they really put on front page..
Hard not to be a bit ironic, for sure ;)
I remember playing with lattice deformer in Softimage 15 years ago. Anyway, 3rd Powers deserves some honors for having filled this gap (mostly).

H_Molla
12-31-2013, 03:06 AM
yea...

Hard not to be a bit ironic, for sure ;)
I remember playing with lattice deformer in Softimage 15 years ago. Anyway, 3rd Powers deserves some honors for having filled this gap (mostly).

bobakabob
12-31-2013, 06:38 AM
The Cage Deformer plugin controls in Layout give so much more control over facial animation...

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/59/186042847_d74081a88c_o.jpg

erikals
12-31-2013, 06:58 AM
installing, first step >


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHt28jRGZG0

colkai
12-31-2013, 10:25 AM
Hard not to be a bit ironic, for sure ;)
I remember playing with lattice deformer in Softimage 15 years ago. Anyway, 3rd Powers deserves some honors for having filled this gap (mostly).

Aye, but once again it fall to 3rd party developers to boost modellers capabilties. The fact they are 9.6 compatible is statement in itself. Kudos must go to the developer for the functionality, I recall seeing the old videos ages ago and being blown away. Now I have to figure which I can justify spending money on, for my modeller "upgrade". :p

jeric_synergy
12-31-2013, 12:36 PM
The Cage Deformer plugin controls in Layout give so much more control over facial animation...

bbkb, is pose saving easy?

GraphXs
12-31-2013, 02:05 PM
What a way to start off the New Year! Great plugins! Woot!

spherical
12-31-2013, 09:44 PM
Now I have to figure which I can justify spending money on, for my modeller "upgrade". :p

Agreed. There's only so much loot to spread around; especially in these times. That which sticks in the back of my mind is that, with the total Wall Of Secrecy, so that Luxology doesn't sniff what LW3DG is working on, the loyal. but hapless, LightWave users are left flapping in the breeze wondering if their investment in a new plugin will be completely wasted when either the plugin is bought and included or parallel tech is coded into LightWave. If either of the latter comes to pass, you've just wasted your hard earned money, because you will have invested in a tech that LW didn't have native in order to improve it and now it's part of your next upgrade. Double-edged sword and all that, but it sure doesn't help my finances to not be able to plan ahead at least a little bit and manage my money responsibly.

Greenlaw
12-31-2013, 10:46 PM
FWIW, I don't think we'll be seeing any new features for the remainder of the LW 11 cycle and I imagine LW 12 is a long ways off, so the purchaser shouldn't worry about wasting his money. Any investment in tools a user needs right now will pay for itself...right now.

The only way it's a waste of money is if the user buys something he doesn't really need.

G.

spherical
12-31-2013, 11:19 PM
True on the latter point but still relevant in the long term. Buying things we "don't need" is not in the picture and is irrelevant. There are many expensive plugins that we have invested in that have been eclipsed by native code—to the tune of more than a new LightWave seat. If you have lots of cash to throw around, you can be so cavalier. Most of us don't, so having a bit of a clue as to that which is just over the horizon is the point.

djwaterman
01-01-2014, 12:26 AM
I think Greenlaw mean't that if you really need these plugins you'd not be wasting money getting them because it adds functionality immediately. Like all these things blow me away but I don't need any of them for now so I'm not buying them, if a job came up that required any one of them then I'd get it. It shouldn't matter to you if some of these become native in some future version of LW so far off.

spherical
01-01-2014, 12:46 AM
Yeah, well it just may not be that "far off" is my point. If these functions are so immediately identified as being SO useable and therefore SO lacking, as has been pointed out in SO many threads, adopting the concepts into LightWave is a natural path... one would think. Either that, or we're all barking up the WRONG tree and putting our faith in things that will never come to pass. What The Point is, is that with Zero Clue given to the loyal users, we have Zero Idea on what is and what is not a relevant investment. Consider this... you spend $300USD on a plugin and the next day LightWave vXX is suddenly sprung on you and has all of that functionality as part of the upgrade price. Happy? I didn't think so.

Greenlaw
01-01-2014, 01:29 AM
Yes, I see your point. But I also understand LW3DG's reluctance to pre-announce features for a product far on the horizon. Historically speaking, that's never worked out well for anybody. My guess is that we won't see or hear news about what's going into 'LW 12' or whatever it's called until Siggraph 2014, or possibly NAB at the earliest, and then what we'll probably see is a work-in-progress demonstration, followed by a fourth quarter or early 2015 'pre-release'. Maybe. That seems to be the traditional pattern. In any case, I figure it will probably a year at least before we will see (or not see) these tools or an equivalent set of tools existing natively in LightWave.

This is pure speculation of course. Just because I live and work near the LW3DG offices doesn't mean I have a clue about what they're planning over there. :p

Anyway, I still feel that if the 3rd Powers tools can immediately increase my productivity, purchasing them now is hardly a waste of money regardless of what may or may not appear in a future release of LightWave.

G.

Greenlaw
01-01-2014, 01:36 AM
Oh, and Happy New Year everybody. :)

djwaterman
01-01-2014, 01:43 AM
Ha ha, that would be too much, if LW 12 came out tomorrow, mind blown.

bobakabob
01-01-2014, 04:18 AM
@jeric_synergy,
The displacement cage key frames are in synch with the LW timeline so sequencing changes is nice and clear and key frames can easily be moved to adjust the displacements.
Haven't tried it yet but I imagine it's possible to store poses or individual changes by saving out the cage as a transformed object, then in Modeler applying the changes to the original cage with a morph applied. It sounds a bit clunky (should work as you can use morphs seemingly without problems). A "Store Morph" feature would be very useful but you can't have everything :)

Like Lertola I'll try not to gush but...The Cage Deformer is ingenious in the way it enables point manipulation in Layout (we've been asking for for years) so that at times you feel you're working in Modeler, with Magnet / rotate etc adjusting your animate able model on the fly. Early days but so far it's transformed Layout. I can't imagine working without this now, it's the closest LW has come to combining Modeler and Layout. We're still far from a unified app of course but the developers have addressed a disadvantage in Layout and found a clever workaround that has made Lightwave much more powerful and enjoyable to work in. Meta mesh is also a revelation as it's like transplanting the basics of ZB insert mesh into Modeler. It also has a big advantage in that you can keep your models at a low subdivision without having to work with millions of polys. Happy New Year :)

erikals
01-01-2014, 06:34 AM
...a "Store Morph" feature would be very useful but you can't have everything... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

+5

colkai
01-01-2014, 08:59 AM
FWIW, I don't think we'll be seeing any new features for the remainder of the LW 11 cycle and I imagine LW 12 is a long ways off, so the purchaser shouldn't worry about wasting his money. Any investment in tools a user needs right now will pay for itself...right now.

The only way it's a waste of money is if the user buys something he doesn't really need.

G.

Call me cynical, but given how long we've waited so far, I think any investment in modeller plugins is going to be sound for many years. Let's face it, when LWCAD came out, folks reckoned such tech could well find its way into LW native, "soon". Talking LWCAD 1.5 here mind ye.
So yep, will see which I can justify to the wife, with no money coming in the house, it's a question of if she feels the outlay is worth it to keep me quiet and out of her hair. :p

LW upgrades are not going to happen as that sort of money I will never have again, barring a lottery win and frankly, it's unlikely the changes would be what I would want anyway, they haven't been so far.

jeric_synergy
01-01-2014, 12:08 PM
bbkb, thanks for the continued info. How about storing poses in negative keyframes??

Colkai, let's give it the best interpretation: LW3dG is PROTECTING LWCad's market share. ;)

(Actually, that would be a fairly smart move....)

And once again, A BIG THANK YOU to 3rd Powers for releasing such game-changing plugins!!!

colkai
01-02-2014, 03:59 AM
Colkai, let's give it the best interpretation: LW3dG is PROTECTING LWCad's market share. ;)

(Actually, that would be a fairly smart move....)

Amen to that, probably 80% of the reason I am still using LW at all is LWCAD, a couple of these new plugins may be in my range too, so 9.6 may be destined to lounge on my HDD for some while yet, at least for modelling certain things.

erikals
01-02-2014, 04:14 AM
i've heard it so many times, please, not yet again, another LWCad saves LightWave discussion.

thanks.

JohnMarchant
01-02-2014, 04:25 AM
Im all for these plugins, they add functionality and much needed tools. LW3dG should look at these plugins and see what could be integrated. I have had LWCAD since the start and its great, it adds the functionality i want and certainly makes ArchViz easier but i wouldn't say its the only reason to have LW. Modeler needs some serious TLC but i dont expect that in the 11 cycle and im not so sure we will see much in the 12 cycle either. I hope LW3dG looks at the way LWCAD and 3dPowers plugins works within LW especially the interactivity side of it and learns for future versions of LW.

There are many areas within LW that need cleaning up, updating, merging that they have their hands full. I would like to see HV, CC, FiberFX sorted out and updating as well as a more robust and fully featured Bullet implementation as well.

Anyway got to get back and earn some more money to get my hands on these nice little additions to LW's toolset.

alexs3d
01-02-2014, 05:07 AM
these tools are really awesome plugins, long waited for this type of functionality in lightwave :) and you also can see what is possible in/with lightwave when you have time and a some coders :)

i don´t think that this plugins will be in lw12 because now this functionality is in lightwave and the lw developers can concentrate on new things for lw.

some other stuff that is around in my head is, that i think this plugins could be have iniciated from rob powers or the lwgroup, because of the domain name 3rdpowers :) ... and also rob has good connections to japan i think...

this are only speculations and some thoughts about it in my mind :) i do not know if some things are true but i would know what you think.

if i don´t need some telelens for my dslr i already would have bought some of the plugins, i am most amazed of the metamesh plugin :)

lertola2
01-02-2014, 07:29 AM
The attached image shows vessels that I drew on the surface of a sphere in zbrush. Meta Mesh does a great job joining all the vessels together.

If you try to do this in zbrush you get poor results. You can join these vessels together using zbrush's dynamesh feature. But dynamesh does a very bad job with the tips of the vessels.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119043&d=13886723109

Hail
01-02-2014, 07:47 AM
Great suite of tools!
Wow!
These would be very useful for lw animators

alexs3d
01-02-2014, 07:57 AM
@lertola2 - very nice example, exactly for something like this i would need metamesh :) , cool for making trees etc. ...

hrgiger
01-02-2014, 09:18 AM
The attached image shows vessels that I drew on the surface of a sphere in zbrush. Meta Mesh does a great job joining all the vessels together.

If you try to do this in zbrush you get poor results. You can join these vessels together using zbrush's dynamesh feature. But dynamesh does a very bad job with the tips of the vessels.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119043&d=13886723109

you can try and up the resolution of your dynamesh to try and keep the tips. But in any event, dynamesh is not intended to do high resolution sculpting, it is a concept creation tool and fine details like this are out of the scope of what its intended for.

Greenlaw
01-02-2014, 09:46 AM
i've heard it so many times, please, not yet again, another LWCad saves LightWave discussion.

thanks.

But...

Here's my story: on my recent demo reel (http://vimeo.com/channels/littlegreendog/64145283), there is a sequence from a Pepperidge Farms 'test' we did in the Box, and I was able to design and build the Palace of Cards interior, exterior and throne in a day or so, all thanks to, well, you know. Very happy I had this tool at the time because I still had much bigger fish to fry on that job. :)

So yeah, all it takes is one suitable job to make these third-party tools totally worth their cost.

G.

Greenlaw
01-02-2014, 09:49 AM
@letrola2, Great example! I wish I had this when modeling the curly trees in our 'B2' short and the burning veins in the 'Crackdown 2' trailer. That technique is going to be a huge time saver the next time I need to do this. Thanks for sharing the tip! :)

G.

ernpchan
01-02-2014, 10:45 AM
How much does the package go up to after the end of this month?

hrgiger
01-02-2014, 10:58 AM
i've heard it so many times, please, not yet again, another LWCad saves LightWave discussion.

thanks.

But it has, at least modeler. Just like Fprime Saved LightWave years before.

prometheus
01-02-2014, 12:33 PM
The attached image shows vessels that I drew on the surface of a sphere in zbrush. Meta Mesh does a great job joining all the vessels together.

If you try to do this in zbrush you get poor results. You can join these vessels together using zbrush's dynamesh feature. But dynamesh does a very bad job with the tips of the vessels.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119043&d=13886723109

Yes...that is nice, would be nice to see a wire and a close up of the branch joints if you could post that?
I think dynamesh for this in zbrush is overdoing it, in zbrush for this I reckon using zspheres should be enough, and that also keeps a skelegon that can be remodified in curves diection,placement,rotation ..anyway you like it, and that is something this lightwave plugin or native lightwave model tools can´t do without redrawing new branches everytime, would be nice if they could work on a new draw metaedges,metaballs that is similar to zbrush zspheres..and editable at anytime with
a non destructive freezing that also converts to quad mesh tesselation..that would be very nice.

lertola2
01-03-2014, 05:33 AM
Yes...that is nice, would be nice to see a wire and a close up of the branch joints if you could post that?
I think dynamesh for this in zbrush is overdoing it, in zbrush for this I reckon using zspheres should be enough, and that also keeps a skelegon that can be remodified in curves diection,placement,rotation ..anyway you like it, and that is something this lightwave plugin or native lightwave model tools can´t do without redrawing new branches everytime, would be nice if they could work on a new draw metaedges,metaballs that is similar to zbrush zspheres..and editable at anytime with
a non destructive freezing that also converts to quad mesh tesselation..that would be very nice.

Attached is a a closeup of some of the joints.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119061&d=1388752098

prometheus
01-03-2014, 07:18 AM
Attached is a a closeup of some of the joints.

http://forums.newtek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119061&d=1388752098

Thanks lertola2 ..it is looking nice and what I thought it might look like, nice to see two different levels of mesh density merge together like that, I wonder how that would work with some set extensions or
terrain or rock mesh where you only want certain parts having higher detail, and then fused on to the mesh of some terrain or a rock with much smoother curve/bulge with less density.
This is indeed interesting, but I still might want to wait for Lightwave 12 maybe, or just buy this metamesh tool.
Some more workflow youtube clips on it would be nice to see someday.
Thanks again.

Michael

jeric_synergy
01-03-2014, 11:03 AM
Well that's one thing nice about the 3rd Powers offering: you can buy JUST the plugins that you want, you don't have to purchase the whole package, which still looks like a heck of a deal.

Anybody looking at them, keep that in mind. It's a long uncertain road to LW12.

ernpchan
01-03-2014, 01:53 PM
How much does the package go up to after the end of this month?

After January you have to buy the plugins individually.

bobakabob
01-03-2014, 05:52 PM
Just to add to Lertola's example, here's a screengrab of wires from Modeler showing how different mesh densities are combined using Metamesh. The manual advises keeping them relative but the plugin is very stable even working in subDs.

In Zbrush to achieve anything like this you have to apply Dynamesh, combined with Insert Mesh, ramping up your models to millions of polys and then applying Zremesher to bring down the polycounts without having complete control over the final density or poly flow. Despite these sophisticated tools in ZB, meshes are unlikely to be restored to anywhere near the original basic levels. Here you can keep meshes as minimal as you like for SubDs and then import into Zbrush for UVs and texturing if required. For organic modelling, Modeler suddenly feels far more 2014 :)

119074

OlaHaldor
01-03-2014, 06:08 PM
I feel stupid for asking. But what's the difference between the cage and lattice tools?
I see some mention of its use, but could anyone elaborate on the differences? When to use what?

Seeing the "$299 for all" makes me wanna go get it all, but I'm not sure I can before time runs out.

bobakabob
01-03-2014, 06:49 PM
The Cage tool gives you greater control for deformations of specific areas of your animated model in Layout. It also allows you to adjust the basic points of your model in Layout as if you were working in a basic version of Modeler. The Cage you create added to an additional layer should be based on the basic polys of the original model before SubDs are applied (it shouldn't be too dense otherwise you lose control and will encounter memory issues). The plugin allows you manipulate points on a timeline to ensure the mesh is deforming correctly. It's very useful in character animation for correcting deformations in shoulders, knees, elbows etc which traditionally can be problematic, but also has potential in adding subtleties to facial animation. It's a clever workaround for the fact animateable point manipulation in Layout has not been possible for many years. The Lattice tool is more of an automatic version of Cage which basically creates a 3d grid around the entire object which can be customised but may limit deformations of detailed areas.

prometheus
01-03-2014, 06:52 PM
Just to add to Lertola's example, here's a screengrab of wires from Modeler showing how different mesh densities are combined using Metamesh. The manual advises keeping them relative but the plugin is very stable even working in subDs.

In Zbrush to achieve anything like this you have to apply Dynamesh, combined with Insert Mesh, ramping up your models to millions of polys and then applying Zremesher to bring down the polycounts without having complete control over the final density or poly flow. Despite these sophisticated tools in ZB, meshes are unlikely to be restored to anywhere near the original basic levels. Here you can keep meshes as minimal as you like for SubDs and then import into Zbrush for UVs and texturing if required. For organic modelling, Modeler suddenly feels far more 2014 :)

119074

Thanks bobakabob..that is ubercool.

Michael

bobakabob
01-03-2014, 07:11 PM
Prometheus, I'm sure you'll enjoy the possibilities of this great new modelling toolset. Like you suggested, it would be especially good for terrain or organic modelling but it would also simplify say, adding nurnies to spacecraft in SudD modelling :)

Greenlaw
01-03-2014, 07:30 PM
Cage and Lattice are going to be very useful for editing meshes for camera mapping tools. I can think of a number of jobs where I wished I had a better way to conform geometry to match a plate than jumping back and forth between Layout and Modeler.

prometheus
01-03-2014, 08:07 PM
Prometheus, I'm sure you'll enjoy the possibilities of this great new modelling toolset. Like you suggested, it would be especially good for terrain or organic modelling but it would also simplify say, adding nurnies to spacecraft in SudD modelling :)

Yes..that is sort of what I predict should be doable, also had in mind some giger-esque, detailed bone structures on buildings flowing along larger round pipes and walls.

Michael

omichon
01-04-2014, 01:55 AM
Just thinking aloud, but when I watch the Meta Mesh or Boolean tool demo video I can't stop thinking of the potential of these tools if only they were available in Layout. hmmm...dynamic meshes...

Bytehawk
01-04-2014, 05:23 AM
How does the license work? Is it per machine or per LW license?
Wana go for the Meta Mesh plugin but want to be sure to use it on both my machines wherever I am (work/home)

BigHache
01-04-2014, 05:46 AM
How does the license work?

The license is dongle/license key tied. After registering you'll receive an encrypted license file that you can install on whatever computer you need. Then as long as the LW license key file has the license info you registered with the plug-in, you're good.

I successfully installed at home and work just yesterday so it works.

raw-m
01-04-2014, 06:11 AM
I'm interested from a Mograph point of view, is there anything in the Layout tools that could help with animated lathes etc. I'd much rather play with onscreen UI than go nodal (I think that's where the future lies in terms of displacements/Deformers, as is proving here).

Bytehawk
01-04-2014, 06:28 AM
The license is dongle/license key tied. After registering you'll receive an encrypted license file that you can install on whatever computer you need. Then as long as the LW license key file has the license info you registered with the plug-in, you're good.

I successfully installed at home and work just yesterday so it works.

Thanks. Looks like i ll get something new to play with soon.

ianr
01-05-2014, 09:11 AM
I have followed this thread with great interest & wish to lay down my thoughts on these
pages of Traffic.
Firstly, there are times in LightWave when a mature plugin comes along and like
a transfusion revitalises the way we do things, making it a game changer,
to name but a few, Messiah, Fprlme, TAFA & LW CAD spring to mind..

Scuttlebutting on LW12: It is very interesting that Mr.Powers tours Japan. Then boom, this
great Plug-in pack goes ‘Dad-Dah’ on the forum stage. I would like say to people, that this
is so good that LW 12 may probably get this bundled with it, as it happened with Viktor’s LW
CAD. So should we support what we have now ,greatfully put in front of us, cos I don’t see a
vast release of 3rd party Company plug-ins these days, a bit like LW books and the Company
Vids,support is vital.

To LW3D Group: This thread should be copied and made ‘Sticky’ as soon as possible into
the Third Party Forum, so it doesn’t get lost, as a polite marketing Thank You, why they even
got LW & the Lattice running on a touch tablet in the vid… nice!

Mod up the SDK: Maybe the LW3D Group should alter the SDK to allow full hook ups with
Layout Timeline. As the Cage & Lattice seem to have a large elbow on them like Messiah, it
did have to jostle about inside Layout i.e with its own timeline. Now that ain’t no negative,
but SDK improvements for full integration to use LW Timeline & LW Graph Editor will be a
Win-Win for all, allowing the deep furthering of this Tool Set. Step on it someone.
Impressions: This 3rdpowers Modeler GO pak may well join that impressive company in my first
paragraph. It has a Cadillac smoothness about the ride, tuning up again our much loved, and
some times, neglected Modeler back into a ‘street hotrod of creativity’, brisling with ‘Z–ish’
interplay.
Hosing down the ‘I didn’t know it could achieve that’ brigade, just like Viktor’s LW CAD did,
and putting a smile back on Modeler’s faces yet again. It might even release the inner
‘Chuck Jones’ in some of us now , and that’s a thought to be going on with!

I wish it well, because I remember drooling & sighing over Alias Wavefront’s Lattice
( Maya Rev -1 pre–roll, to you all ) way back when it was a big ticket item.
A few months ago I said in these forums , ‘God. Please send a little lattice to LW for Xmas’,
or there about’s, almost as a quip. Well there you go!

Thank you, very much Rushio for much future fun.:
Yoku yatta wa anata ni haruka ni kansha, Rusho san:rock:

Greenlaw
01-05-2014, 11:23 AM
Mod up the SDK: Maybe the LW3D Group should alter the SDK to allow full hook ups with
Layout Timeline.

I absolutely agree with this, mostly because it implies that the Lattice and Cage keys will appear in Graph Editor for more precise editing, and the motion channels will be available to be driven by other items in Layout. The lack of channel accessibility in Lattice and Cage is the one glaring weakness I see in these otherwise amazing tools. If this is because of an SDK limitation, then this limit needs to be removed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy to have these tools now, but I'm also hoping that this issue can be addressed so that these tools can truly become the 'grounder breakers' in Layout that everybody's been waiting for. (BTW, I think the 3rd Power's Modeler tools have already achieved this status. ) :)

G.

Bytehawk
01-06-2014, 11:51 AM
OK,

Meta mesh has to be the coolest plugin I bought in a very long time.

I 'm just starting to get to grips with it but even for hard surface modeling it seems to be performing quite well. It doesn't beat hand crafted poly by poly design, but boy the time you save with this can be used to tame those unholy edgeloops with lots to spare.

Cageman
01-06-2014, 12:48 PM
Cage and Lattice are going to be very useful for editing meshes for camera mapping tools. I can think of a number of jobs where I wished I had a better way to conform geometry to match a plate than jumping back and forth between Layout and Modeler.

There is a way to do it without any third party. Scan your mesh using ClothFX and then use EditFX brushtool to shape your mesh. I'm surprised that so few LW users knows about this.

That said, the tools provided here are leaps and bounds faster and better... :)

erikals
01-06-2014, 12:59 PM
There is a way to do it without any third party. Scan your mesh using ClothFX and then use EditFX brushtool to shape your mesh. I'm surprised that so few LW users knows about this.

In this that case yes...

but you can't animate EditFX... which is very-very unfortunate... so it's no good for animated lattice...

jeric_synergy
01-06-2014, 01:02 PM
??? But you can ...ummm... envelope changes over time, no? Like, you make a change, and it is applied over a range of frames w/an envelope or multiplier, so that it starts soft, trails off soft.

I thought you could do that.

Cageman
01-06-2014, 01:06 PM
Is there anything like MetaMesh in any other software that operates on Subpatches/SubDs?

Cageman
01-06-2014, 01:07 PM
??? But you can ...ummm... envelope changes over time, no? Like, you make a change, and it is applied over a range of frames w/an envelope or multiplier, so that it starts soft, trails off soft.

I thought you could do that.

Yes... you can animate EditFX changes.

ChronoSculpt, being about one million times better, is based on (and expanded upon) what you can do with EditFX.

Cageman
01-06-2014, 01:11 PM
I absolutely agree with this, mostly because it implies that the Lattice and Cage keys will appear in Graph Editor for more precise editing, and the motion channels will be available to be driven by other items in Layout. The lack of channel accessibility in Lattice and Cage is the one glaring weakness I see in these otherwise amazing tools. If this is because of an SDK limitation, then this limit needs to be removed.

+ 1 million!

prometheus
01-06-2014, 02:50 PM
There is a way to do it without any third party. Scan your mesh using ClothFX and then use EditFX brushtool to shape your mesh. I'm surprised that so few LW users knows about this.

That said, the tools provided here are leaps and bounds faster and better... :)

Is that really what it is? so many users just not knowing about it? maybe... I know about it but hardly use it...to awkward and non efficient to use.
I really hope they get going with putting a paint brush sculpt tool in layout soon..really, but we all know that is one weakness to overcome and rob and the team is aware of it.

Michael

hrgiger
01-06-2014, 02:51 PM
Is there anything like MetaMesh in any other software that operates on Subpatches/SubDs?

Coming to Modo. http://lesterbanks.com/2013/08/the-foundry-teases-meshfusion-for-modo-701-the-boolean-operations-we-have-all-dreamt-about/

bobakabob
01-06-2014, 03:05 PM
Coming to Modo. http://lesterbanks.com/2013/08/the-foundry-teases-meshfusion-for-modo-701-the-boolean-operations-we-have-all-dreamt-about/

The original tech was in Groboto, which allows realtime Boolean modelling from primitives. The disadvantage in this otherwise cool app is that you can't import your own meshes as a starting point. The final sculpts are then exported as superbly economical meshes. The Groboto creator has been working with Luxology to integrate the tech into Modo, so it will be interesting to see how far it's developed. Shame the LW3DG didn't get there first but Groboto is still available as a standalone app. I thoroughly recommend it and like other users am hopeful it will take Boolean modelling to another level.

Greenlaw
01-06-2014, 03:11 PM
There is a way to do it without any third party. Scan your mesh using ClothFX and then use EditFX brushtool to shape your mesh. I'm surprised that so few LW users knows about this.

Ah, good to know. So the Edit Brush has a user definable falloff? I was aware of the vertex editing feature in ClothFX but I assumed it edited only a single vertex at a time. If it has a real brush tool though, that makes if much more useful then. I need to actually look at that feature someday. Thanks for the tip!

Still waiting though for the tool that will let me edit and save an active Endomorph in Layout, specifically to support the Joint Morph tool. A few years ago, 3D Cel demonstrated that it's possible to paint and edit weight maps with his x32 plug-in in Layout--it can't be too much of a leap to include other types of vmaps, can it?

Since I'm feeling wishful, maybe that will be the next suite of tools from 3rd Powers. (Please!) ;)

G.

prometheus
01-06-2014, 03:12 PM
Coming to Modo. http://lesterbanks.com/2013/08/the-foundry-teases-meshfusion-for-modo-701-the-boolean-operations-we-have-all-dreamt-about/

funny, brad does indeed make presentations with a silly twist, but funny.
And that is looking cool indeed, from the creator behind Groboto, working in subdiv mode it seems, it kind of put Lw cad booleans to look old.
And this stuff is animatable and should be working with deformers and procedurals too, awesome.
I do suspect that the plugin for modo will come at a huge price, compared to the tools for lightwave, then again..the animatable part makes a huge difference I guess.

Michael

erikals
01-06-2014, 03:22 PM
Yes... you can animate EditFX changes.

mmm... not in an easy way afaik...

are you thinking about saving for example a vertex motion via EditFX... ?
or saving out an endomorph by going to frame 1... ?

Cageman
01-06-2014, 06:17 PM
mmm... not in an easy way afaik...

are you thinking about saving for example a vertex motion via EditFX... ?
or saving out an endomorph by going to frame 1... ?

You can animate your Edits over time, yes. Wether or not it will suit you is up to you. I'm just saying it can be done, wether it is suitable for what you want to do is a very different story. But, ChronoSculpt is based on, and improved, upon the concept of EditFX.

Cageman
01-06-2014, 06:25 PM
Coming to Modo. http://lesterbanks.com/2013/08/the-foundry-teases-meshfusion-for-modo-701-the-boolean-operations-we-have-all-dreamt-about/

Cool!

But what is there for Max/Maya/XSI and/or Houdini? That a tool like Modo receives such a plugin isn't surprising, but... as I sad... what about the other major apps? For some reason, I don't see something like this comming their way soon.

Cageman
01-06-2014, 06:28 PM
Ah, good to know. So the Edit Brush has a user definable falloff?

Yes. :)

mummyman
01-08-2014, 08:27 AM
Has anybody tested these on a network render? Not that's a huge make or break on buying it.. but it's nice to know.

mummyman
01-08-2014, 12:01 PM
OK I just figured out my ailment. These plug-ins do not appear to work with custom Configs folder for multiple version installations. I forget that some things don't like that. Not a big deal, just good to know. Major props to the developer for emailing me this weekend and helping out.

I might be in the same boat... it's not recognizing my license file. What did you have to do?

Ax that. I figured it out. My config is pointed to a network drive... put the license file there...worked fine. Time to test!

Greenlaw
01-08-2014, 12:20 PM
I have my configs and 3rd Powers license in a network directory and it works fine, but I'm also using a dongle to run LightWave. From what I understand, the main LW license doesn't work dongle-free if you're pointing to a network location.

That info probably doesn't help but maybe it offers some insight.

G.

mummyman
01-08-2014, 12:22 PM
I have my configs and 3rd Powers license in a network directory and it works fine, but I'm also using a dongle to run LightWave. From what I understand, the main LW license doesn't work dongle-free if you're pointing to a network location.

That info probably doesn't help but maybe it offers some insight.

G.

Thanks! Same here...but got it all squared away

mummyman
01-08-2014, 01:08 PM
I can't seem to get the lattice deformer working with our network rendering. Seems fine for loading / saving making cool things though.

EDIT

Scratch that... it's working like a charm.

These plugins are pretty freakin' amazing

alexs3d
01-09-2014, 07:12 AM
i bought metamesh today, what an awesome plugin :) the buying -> licensing workflow was pretty fast and straight forward, no problems.

the plugin makes so much fun and it is extremely usefull, it makes fun discovering more and more ways where you can use and need this plugin. it works really robust and stable, no big problems so far.

but i have some suggestions for making the plugin better and better :)

- it would be cool to have a different surface after merging objects, especially in subtract mode, i hope you know what i mean
- please add scaling of objects, not only translating and rotating
- it would be more efficient if we can constrain an axis while rotating, rotating an object is not so precise and it can get wired fast
- i nice addition would be to merge intersecting geometrie at once, for example i would make a rock of existing intersecting cubes, now i have to select the plugin -> select a cube -> merge , then deactivate the plugin -> activate -> select the next cube ....... , an merge all at once would be nice
- also it would be a better workflow if we do not have to quit and reactivate the plugin everytime, for example i have a lot of objects to merge, so i activate the plugin, select the first object and merge it -> now a button would be nice like "merge selected object and select another", then the object will merge but i have the possibiltiy to select the next one, and so on....

thanks for the great plugins, i am excited to see what is coming in the next month :)

BigHache
01-09-2014, 07:41 AM
but i have some suggestions for making the plugin better and better :)

- please add scaling of objects, not only translating and rotating
- it would be more efficient if we can constrain an axis while rotating, rotating an object is not so precise and it can get wired fast

Definitely agree. I think best case would be to have the new translate manipulator, and add values to the Numeric panel. But out of the gate for v1.0, holy moly.

Bytehawk
01-09-2014, 07:45 AM
For metamesh I would love to see an option to just use quads for merging geometry. I know this is probably a tough one to crack. At the moment the resulting geometry can be a bit untidy...

prometheus
01-09-2014, 09:33 AM
For metamesh I would love to see an option to just use quads for merging geometry. I know this is probably a tough one to crack. At the moment the resulting geometry can be a bit untidy...

Ahh..that is a task for the general mesh system and lightwave group me thinks, I think they need a tesselation command able to convert tri geometry, to nice quads, and also connect and close poly areas sort of like Cm polydivide, but that one doesn´t work perfectly in some cases.

Michael

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, In metamesh can you only fuse one segment geometry with a second geometry at once? I would need it to fuse several segments to another segment in one go, or at least a fast drop tool and restart the fusion on other segments for a fast workflow.

Michael

Bytehawk
01-09-2014, 09:42 AM
By the way, In metamesh can you only fuse one segment geometry with a second geometry at once? I would need it to fuse several segments to another segment in one go, or at least a fast drop tool and restart the fusion on other segments for a fast workflow.

Michael

That's correct. You activate the plugin and then click on the polygon mesh you want to merge. So for several meshes you need to decativate the plugin and then re-activate it.

As indicated by alexs3d, it would be a big timesaver if this workflow could be changed either by right clicking to add another segment 'ala bevel' or add an option to merge all objects.

bobakabob
01-10-2014, 03:33 PM
Here's a scene put together for my on going music animation used using the Cage and Metamesh plugins. It's great finally having point manipulation in Layout to fine tune deformations (though does anyone remember MiniMo years back, another Japanese plugin though nowhere near as powerful.) The Cage in yellow is based on parts of the base mesh. There are lots of options to move points in a very precise way which don't seem to conflict with morphs. It feels like working in a basic version of Modeler with the magnet tool. The timeline is visible in the first image. It's best to turn down the level of subdivision to avoid memory lag if your model is complex. PS This is a bit of a double post, there's a more complete version in the WIP forum but I thought this might illustrate how useable these wonderful plugins are :)

119204

119205

Greenlaw
01-10-2014, 04:19 PM
That's really freaky...and I mean that in a good way. :)

prometheus
01-10-2014, 04:19 PM
That's correct. You activate the plugin and then click on the polygon mesh you want to merge. So for several meshes you need to decativate the plugin and then re-activate it.

As indicated by alexs3d, it would be a big timesaver if this workflow could be changed either by right clicking to add another segment 'ala bevel' or add an option to merge all objects.

Ah thanks, yes it would be nice to have it that way, or use a background layer with multi geometry segment and fuse with foreground layer.

jeric_synergy
01-10-2014, 04:24 PM
You guys are sending all these feature requests to the proper email contacts at 3rd Powers, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight?

Carm3D
01-12-2014, 11:21 AM
I have a question for someone who has the cage deformer plugin.

Please tell me if this works:

1. Add bones to the cage of your arm.
2. Bend the Elbow
3. Edit the points of the cage to improve the deformations from the elbow bend
4. Straighten the arm.
5. Save the state of your cage as an endomorph
6. Use Cycler or any other method to now link this new endomorph to the bending of this elbow to get the same results as your manual adjustme.

Greenlaw
01-12-2014, 11:57 AM
That's a very interesting idea Carm. I think the edited state of Lattice/Cage should persist after unbending the joint to its unposed 'rest' state, and I think the resulting 'target' should work with JointMorph. Maybe...feel like I might be overlooking something critical. Let you know in a few minutes.

G.

Carm3D
01-12-2014, 12:18 PM
Cool.. If that works this thing is worth much more than $200. It's LW12 in a can. :)

Greenlaw
01-12-2014, 01:00 PM
Okay, I spent a few minutes with this idea--sorry I can't afford to experiment any longer right now because I'm at work, but based on what I'm seeing at the moment, I can offer an almost confident 'maybe'?

I did two things and I'm not sure which one is having the effect I'm seeing. Using the included Arm demo scene, I turned off Rest Shape At 0 and I set Reference Object As to Deformed. Then, I deleted frame zero from the Cage timeline and dragged the 'deformed' frame to zero. One or both of these is giving me an unbent (by bones) but deformed (by cage) mesh in the rest pose. I'm sure I can export this edited mesh as a target to create an Endomorph with in Modeler--whether this shape works correctly with Joint Morph remains to be seen. The virtual 'cage' at frame 0 is also unbent but otherwise deformed but it's not exportable--this really doesn't matter, since what you want is 'corrective' endomorph in the original mesh, not the cage.

I need to spend more time with this after I get home later today but this looks promising. Maybe. :p

G.

Carm3D
01-12-2014, 01:08 PM
Actually what I am looking for is the correctiveness happening in the cage.. I would then proceed to animate the character with the same cage.. weather its using the plugin or FXMetaLink

Greenlaw
01-12-2014, 01:14 PM
Just so you're not kept in total suspense, here are some screencaps of what I was seeing. The first is the unposed objects, the second is the objects posed and edited using Cage. The third is the object back at frame zero, undeformed by bones but otherwise deformed by the cage object. It's not meant to be 'pretty' of course, it's just a methodology test, and I think it's doing what you were suggesting.

119245 119244 119243

G.

Carm3D
01-12-2014, 01:15 PM
Thanks for trying this out by the way. This plugin isn't worth much if I can't use it to create joint deformation morphs.

Carm3D
01-12-2014, 01:17 PM
Yeah... Looks like it's doing it. Just need to plug it into the bone rotation to see if it works.

My thoughts are for the rigging process I would go and create these morphs for the joint rotations, one at a time, save out the morph then plug them all into the graph editor and I'm in business.

Greenlaw
01-12-2014, 01:19 PM
As for saving out the deformed cage, it might be able to do that. The setup above is not deforming the original cage at frame zero--what you see is the plug-in's virtual instance of the cage, which is not exportable as a Lightwave object. That doesn't mean it can't be done--I just don't know yet. Need to spend more time with this later to see if I can export a deformed cage. Let you know tonight.

Or if another artist with Cage can pick up where I left off, that would be very helpful. Thanks in advance. :)

G.

Carm3D
01-12-2014, 01:24 PM
Oh it makes some kind of virtual object? Well there are ways around that...

If the virtual object is deforming a clone of the original cage instead of the high-poly model.. that would do it. Maybe you can have it deform both the high-poly model and a copy of the raw cage at the same time. It adds a few more steps but I'll take what I can get!

Greenlaw
01-12-2014, 01:28 PM
Now that I'm thinking about it, simply copying the edited key in the Cage timeline to frame zero is probably what's making the above possible.

No time to test it though--need to stop thinking and get back to work. :p

Carm3D
01-12-2014, 01:31 PM
Thanks again for your time! I'm feeling optimistic about this.. I suspect there will be a new video tutorial in my future. ;)