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MAUROCOR
12-12-2013, 01:43 PM
I am really curious about that. Since the last Siggraph I see this LW marketing sentence and I donīt get it! What does it mean? What the hell is the "rebellion" they talk about?:yoda:Someone of you could clarify, please?

50one
12-12-2013, 01:53 PM
I am really curious about that. Since the last Siggraph I see this LW marketing sentence and I donīt get it! What does it mean? What the hell is the "rebellion" they talk about?:yoda:Someone of you could clarify, please?



No one knows, If my memory serves me well Matt said there is nothing behind it...

hrgiger
12-12-2013, 01:58 PM
No, it has a message behind it, I will tell you in a minute. :)

VonBon
12-12-2013, 02:15 PM
If you don't know, your not supposed too. :cool:

hrgiger
12-12-2013, 02:27 PM
Ok sorry Mauro, it took me a minute to find it. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/41352387 Start watching at 1:15, Rob explains it. Basically though, its trying to give the message that LightWave offers something that is different from the other offerings that are out there including the built in renderer. He goes on to explain the benefits of the split app workflow (being careful this time to explain that just because he's pointing out benefits, doesn't mean that they aren't aware of the drawbacks and are working to eliminate them) and also points out the benefit of having real world measurements in LightWave as opposed to just units in other software.

I can't say I'm sold on Rob's analogy of comparing the split app workflow to the way production happens in real life. He says that props are built in a prop shop before they are moved to the set for filming sort of like you build models in modeler before you take them to Layout for animation or rendering. He says it would be inefficient to build your models on the film stage. Unfortunately, that's not an accurate description of how a unified application works. Models aren't built in the set stage environment in a unified app, they're built within a modeling workspace where all of your modeling tools are at hand and your camera and animation tools are hidden in a separate workspace.

spherical
12-12-2013, 05:08 PM
all of your modeling tools are at hand and your camera and animation tools are hidden in a separate workspace

You just don't use ALT-Tab to get to them.

nickdigital
12-12-2013, 05:46 PM
I am really curious about that. Since the last Siggraph I see this LW marketing sentence and I donīt get it! What does it mean? What the hell is the "rebellion" they talk about?:yoda:Someone of you could clarify, please?

I think it's the sentiment that you don't have to use an AD product to produce quality cg work. Too often people think cg=Maya.

chikega
12-12-2013, 06:54 PM
Watch starting at about 16:40, Kyle Toucher leads by alluding to being part of the resistance and Rob Powers follows up with "Join the Rebellion" being the new tag line.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0DlmXRAO8g

OnlineRender
12-12-2013, 06:58 PM
imagine the idiot that got this done ... geez muppet

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1240114_668286393195709_86560692_n.jpg

realgray
12-12-2013, 07:34 PM
imagine the idiot that got this done ... geez muppet

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1240114_668286393195709_86560692_n.jpg

Is that real? I thought it was one of those fake tats.

saranine
12-12-2013, 10:14 PM
It could be worse. Anyone who did a tattoo of a rhino or a cinema would be a total goose.

OnlineRender
12-13-2013, 02:03 AM
Yeah it real ...thinking blade tribal to go around it

50one
12-13-2013, 02:13 AM
Yeah it real ...thinking blade tribal to go around it


I always knew you're a muppet!:p

Is that arm or leg?

I'm thinking about lw logo on my ,make it really tiny, but it should grow from time to time, same when you place an image on deflated balloon and then you inflate it it grows & grows....obviously I'm talking about my bicep.....

OnlineRender
12-13-2013, 02:36 AM
it's on my girly arm... although that picture was taking 10 minutes after it was done ... it has settled now

50one
12-13-2013, 02:49 AM
it's on my girly arm... although that picture was taking 10 minutes after it was done ... it has settled now

Now, tell me how many folks looked at your arm and said something about starcraft?:)

MarcusM
12-13-2013, 03:11 AM
it's on my girly arm... although that picture was taking 10 minutes after it was done ... it has settled now


My friend Łukasz(Lucas) have tatoo studio in Glasgow. Long time ago he was LW user :)

https://www.facebook.com/KBrothersStudio

MAUROCOR
12-13-2013, 04:45 AM
Thanks for explanation, guys! But personally I donīt think this marketing line worked well. After the NT efforts to attempt "join" layout and modeler (C-O-R-E) in an unified app and change its mind I wouldnīt call the decision to keep the same a "REBELLION". And if the intention was against using AD products so it is even worst. Very poor indeed. And if the intention was another one, it is not clear enought. I hope next year they think something better.

MAUROCOR
12-13-2013, 04:47 AM
imagine the idiot that got this done ... geez muppet

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1240114_668286393195709_86560692_n.jpg

I like it!!! :)

OnlineRender
12-13-2013, 05:11 AM
My friend Łukasz(Lucas) have tatoo studio in Glasgow. Long time ago he was LW user :)

https://www.facebook.com/KBrothersStudio

awesome ... Ill say hello

OnlineRender
12-13-2013, 04:53 PM
My friend Łukasz(Lucas) have tatoo studio in Glasgow. Long time ago he was LW user :)

https://www.facebook.com/KBrothersStudio

I got a facebook friend invite from Lucas today " I just mentioned LIGHTWAVE" nothing more :) at the begging of next year I will take a look at his studio it's 20 minutes drive from my house "his artwork is excellent " and see if he can expand on the tat...

cheers for the link

AbnRanger
12-13-2013, 06:53 PM
If I were in Rob's shoes, I would be a bit more vocal and explicit about the pricing policies of most of the other competing applications. AD just eliminated upgrades ALTOGETHER. If you skipped a version or two, because of the tough economy or the updates just didn't offer anything you needed, AD is going to make sure you PAY, and through the nose...for that transgression. They call it "Heavy Emphasis on Subscription plans." Heavy is about right. Heavy handed like a mother! So, if you got off subscription for Max, as an example....in order to get current, you HAVE to buy a new license of Max + subscription. That's over $4200!!!!

No wonder their numbers are down (9%) this year. Their excuse is that they are switching to this subscription and (expensive) rental model, and they are offering free student/EDU licenses. They started making student licenses free back in 2010, I believe. So I'm not sure how they try to use the "we're not milking students by charging them to learn our software" angle.....3yrs later.

saranine
12-14-2013, 01:53 AM
To me the rebellion is about this article:

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/02/autodesk-and-the-price-gouge-thats-holding-back-the-australian-games-industry/

For the antipodean location this is the rebellion. It's like the "rum rebellion" :)

AbnRanger
12-14-2013, 04:59 PM
Maybe throw in a jab, once in a while, publicly with an indirect reference to AD...and one they can't do a darned thing about, legally. Perhaps say something to the effect of ...."While some are trying to forge a Market Dictatorship and resorting to heavy-handed tactics to keep their patrons in line...we saying "Come on....Join the Rebellion."

chikega
12-14-2013, 05:22 PM
If I were in Rob's shoes, I would be a bit more vocal and explicit about the pricing policies of most of the other competing applications. AD just eliminated upgrades ALTOGETHER. If you skipped a version or two, because of the tough economy or the updates just didn't offer anything you needed, AD is going to make sure you PAY, and through the nose...for that transgression. They call it "Heavy Emphasis on Subscription plans." Heavy is about right. Heavy handed like a mother! So, if you got off subscription for Max, as an example....in order to get current, you HAVE to buy a new license of Max + subscription. That's over $4200!!!!

No wonder their numbers are down (9%) this year. Their excuse is that they are switching to this subscription and (expensive) rental model, and they are offering free student/EDU licenses. They started making student licenses free back in 2010, I believe. So I'm not sure how they try to use the "we're not milking students by charging them to learn our software" angle.....3yrs later.

That sounds like a page out of Maxon. After a couple missed upgrades, I was going to have to pay full price for C4d Studio. I said forget it.

AbnRanger
12-14-2013, 05:37 PM
That sounds like a page out of Maxon. After a couple missed upgrades, I was going to have to pay full price for C4d Studio. I said forget it.I noticed their pricing and upgrade policies seemed very similar. That too, is why I haven't even considered C4D. Wonder who is copying whom? :)

What bothers me even more than charging for a new license, just to get current, is the fact that they always charge for subs upfront. It should start on the anniversary of your purchase. That's retarded. It's like charging for LW 11.6 and then the upgrade...to 11.6 at the same time. AD is run by some greedy SOB's, that's for sure. That's why they killed Combustion and then Toxik. Both really sweet compositors...especially Combustion. But the problem is....multi-thread desktop PC's were powerful enough to make the need for uber expensive Flame and Inferno systems unnecessary. So, their lower priced compositors had to fall on the sword to protect the higher priced line.

chikega
12-18-2013, 03:32 PM
I wondered what happened to Toxic and Combustion. Thanks for the scoop Don.

Actually, Electric Image was used by the "Rebel Unit" at Industrial Light and Magic in the 90's. That's when E.I. was going for $7500. :-o

jburford
12-18-2013, 05:12 PM
That sounds like a page out of Maxon. After a couple missed upgrades, I was going to have to pay full price for C4d Studio. I said forget it.


A while back they (Maxon) had a great upgrade offer to anyone using C4D 9.5 (if I remember correctly) and above to upgrade to the then upcoming C4D R14. Was a really great offer and cheap. Was lucky to be able to upgrade an 10.5 Mac version to current 14 PC version.

But otherwise, yeah, you are correct.

Phil
12-18-2013, 06:12 PM
I wondered what happened to Toxic and Combustion. Thanks for the scoop Don.

Actually, Electric Image was used by the "Rebel Unit" at Industrial Light and Magic in the 90's. That's when E.I. was going for $7500. :-o

They have a quote from John Knoll on their front page. It doesn't mention their product, but describes the benefits of a fast renderer.

AbnRanger
12-18-2013, 06:12 PM
A while back they (Maxon) had a great upgrade offer to anyone using C4D 9.5 (if I remember correctly) and above to upgrade to the then upcoming C4D R14. Was a really great offer and cheap. Was lucky to be able to upgrade an 10.5 Mac version to current 14 PC version.

But otherwise, yeah, you are correct.Yeah...the whole notion that one should pay full price, then for simply not being on a Maintenance plan, you are penalized by having to buy another full license...is utter BS. It's highly unethical, IMO. I'm so mad about it, I might just send an e-mail to the US Federal Trade commission. That doesn't sound legal for a company to take such heavy-handed and coercive measures to keep their userbase in line.

One would argue that we have a choice to use something else....blah, blah, blah. That's great if we are talking about an automobile, furniture, and any other commercial product. But these greedy yahoos KNOW that studios are nearly locked in because of all the investment in their pipeline infrastructure (custom scripts/plugins, and thousands of $$$ in commercial plugins)...not to mention hundreds of hours of training and time investment. AD and Maxon are using that as a blunt weapon to blugeon the consumer/user.

Just even a hint at being investigated for such practices will cause their stock to drop in some measure.

Rayek
12-18-2013, 10:49 PM
At the time I bought a license of C4D 7 Studio and all the plugins like Hair, and that cost me an arm and a leg. Really expensive. Then I upgraded to v8, and to v8.5. With 8.5 the company's pricing policies changed for the worse. The cost of the next update (v9) was impossible to justify for me at that point, because Maxon, due to becoming more popular, suddenly increased the upkeep to new heights. I thought I's wait it out for one version. And low and behold, by version 10 the update costs were through the roof for Studio, and I decided to take advantage of the sidegrade to LW 7.

Even though I paid through the nose for Maxon's products, I was not allowed to upgrade to version 11. Even a downgrade to a non-studio version turned out to be as expensive as a full license of Lightwave - just ridiculous in my opinion.

I was quite amazed that I could do the same things, but with a better quality renderer, in LW 7. The I got a free upgrade to LW8, and much to my surprise, even 9.6 was free!!!

Maxon's update policy turned me from a lover to a hater (of the company). Never again. Same holds true for Adobe and AutoDesk- never again.

chikega
12-19-2013, 09:19 PM
Of the big 3d packages out there, Lightwave and Houdini have it right ... MODO so far too.