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View Full Version : Again huge problems with shift camera!!!



hokolo
12-10-2013, 03:13 AM
About 6 weeks ago, I created a scene with Lightwave 11.51, using shift camera.
Today I opened the same scene with lightwave 11.6: An empty camera view!!!(with a focal length of 150 mm)
The coordinates of the camera (x,y,z and h,p,b and focal length data are identical!!!
I have to move the camera in height and distance and rotate the camera in height and pitch to find a new position,
that fit's as near as possible to the original picture.

Early in the year I found the same problem between version 11.2 and 11.5 (I posted this problem in march 2013, later on I read something like "the problem seems to be solved in version 11.51., there have to be only some small corrections to fit the two cameras).
I had no time to check this in the meantime.

Today, between version 11.51 and version 11.6 the problem is back again!

I tried a simple scene with 11.2, 11.51 and 11.6 - three versions - three different results with identical camera coordinates!!!!
(make a box, move the shift camera a little bit up and to the side and center the box, then render with different lightwave versions,
see the results).

I'm sure, with lightwave 11.5 there will be the fourth different result.
I use lighwave for professional illustrations, and I can't believe, that I actally have to store ALL different lightwave versions on my computer, for the case I have to reopen a job from the last month or, much worse, three month or six month ago.

It's funny to find a lot of new functions in every new lightwave versions, but it's no fun at all to find fundemantal functions like the camera are incompatible from version to version.

spherical
12-11-2013, 06:23 PM
I tried a simple scene with 11.2, 11.51 and 11.6 - three versions - three different results with identical camera coordinates!!!!
(make a box, move the shift camera a little bit up and to the side and center the box, then render with different lightwave versions,
see the results).

It's a difference in the way that the Camera Pitch correction is calculated. If you turn off "Use Camera Pitch", the images are identical between 11.5.1 and 11.6. Otherwise, there is a slight elevation difference that should be correctable by adjusting only camera pitch.


I use lighwave for professional illustrations, and I can't believe, that I actally have to store ALL different lightwave versions on my computer, for the case I have to reopen a job from the last month or, much worse, three month or six month ago.

I have six versions installed alongside each other, because there are differences between how renders are produced. It is a fact of 3D life.


It's funny to find a lot of new functions in every new lightwave versions, but it's no fun at all to find fundemantal functions like the camera are incompatible from version to version.

If there was complete compatibility between all versions of LightWave, there would be NO advancements. If there are NO advancements, there would be no need for version numbers. Bugs get fixed. New methods supersede old. Change is good if you want the application to move forward, and your capabilities with it. Expecting fundamental functions to always be the same in a new version is really unrealistic.

hokolo
12-12-2013, 12:04 PM
Thank you, sperical, for the answer! But I tried out cam pitch and/or -correction on/off,and the problem is not solved. Maybe the big difference is the long focal length I used. Camera pitch off moves the camera a little bit, but the screen stays empty. I had to move the camera a lot downwards, until the objects appear. But the perspective stays different, so I have to move the camera up and down and change the pitch angle lower and higher, until I find a combination, where the two pictures somewhat fit. Not really exact working...

So in the future I have to work with different Lightwave versions, I hope, there will be not such errors like changing between Lightwave 11.2 and Lightwave 11.5 (objects not found etc.), where I had to delete/restore some config files after every change.

spherical
12-12-2013, 09:49 PM
Thank you, sperical, for the answer! But I tried out cam pitch and/or -correction on/off,and the problem is not solved.

With Cam Pitch off, here, the images are identical.


Maybe the big difference is the long focal length I used. Camera pitch off moves the camera a little bit, but the screen stays empty. I had to move the camera a lot downwards, until the objects appear. But the perspective stays different, so I have to move the camera up and down and change the pitch angle lower and higher, until I find a combination, where the two pictures somewhat fit. Not really exact working...

OK. I get where the confusion is. What I meant was that with Camera Pitch off in both application versions, the two renders are identical. You can't have a scene where the Camera Pitch Correction is computed differently (11.6) and simply turn off Camera Pitch and fix it.

I just ran another test with greater offset in Z and X to accentuate the pitch correction required. Rendering both versions with Camera Pitch off reproduces the exact image in both. Rendering both with Camera Pitch on produces a different image (we knew that). The box is higher in the frame in 11.5 than it was in 11.6. Only adjusting the Camera's Pitch, not messing with position at all, restores the angle and the images again are identical but this time with pitch correction applied. Again, it is a difference in how the Shift Camera computes the Pitch Correction in 11.6. Nothing else is changed.

To make certain, I applied your focal length of 150mm, moved the camera back, reframed the shot and ran the tests again. The Camera Pitch in 11.5 was 26.00. The Camera Pitch in 11.6 was 28.94 and the pitch corrected images render the same. These are the same adjusted Pitch values that restored the angle when I was using 24mm focal length.


So in the future I have to work with different Lightwave versions, I hope, there will be not such errors like changing between Lightwave 11.2 and Lightwave 11.5 (objects not found etc.), where I had to delete/restore some config files after every change.

This sounds like your config files are not properly separated from each other and/or you are running the Hub from one version while using the other. Not good.

hokolo
12-13-2013, 06:53 AM
Thank you again, spherical!

I will check this out later. The problem with LW 11.2 and LW 11.5 only appeared between these two versions (for me), and I made a mistake posting the error message here, now I remember, it was something like "objects are read-only". As there were several users with this problem at that time, a workaround was posted in this forum (delete a special config file, I don't remember exactly, but with LW11.51 this error didn't appear. To be sure, I try to avoid changing between different LW-versions, but during the tests with the shift-cam problem (with LW 11.2, LW 11.51 and LW 11.6) there were no error messages. I installed all LW-Versions on this machine (from LW 11.0 upwards) following the installation-instructions, so I hope, all configs are seperated correctly.

hokolo
12-13-2013, 08:21 AM
Yes, I checked it out, the original refererence scene was with "camera shift" tagged on, this scene saved with "camera shift" tagged off and rendered in LW 11.6 is the same result.
Unfortunately the new scene, based on the LW 11.51 scene, is with camera shift tagged on again, but, as it is not the final version, I can change it. So, as I understand it now, I do not use camera shift tagged on to have compatibility to future versions of Lightwave?

spherical
12-13-2013, 08:23 PM
No, you're still not getting it. It doesn't matter whether Cam Pitch is on or off when the scene is saved. All that needs to be adjusted is the camera's pitch value when you open a scene that was saved in another version. You can even use LW's math capability in the Pitch entry box. Add or subtract, as the case may be, 3.94 degrees to/from the value that is present and the camera displays the same frame as the other version did.

hokolo
12-14-2013, 02:43 AM
Yes, now I understood: In my original LW 11.51 scene there was "use cam pitch" tagged and and vertical shift (ghosted) was zero. Until now I adjusted the the camera pitch with the standard pitch angle
(H-P-B adjustments), when I now set a defined pitch angle in the vertical shift box (LW 11.51), I really get the same result in LW 11.6. Thank you very much again!

spherical
12-14-2013, 11:36 PM
You're most welcome. It is times like this that I really appreciate being able to be here and help someone. Doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's cool.