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scratch33
12-08-2013, 02:35 PM
plugin for substance designer in lightwave like in modo.

Please...

It's a must have.

Thanks,
Francesco

Tranimatronic
12-10-2013, 01:26 PM
I really liked the look of substance designer. What is the difference between buying the standalone and buying the version specifically for say modo ?

Sensei
12-10-2013, 01:35 PM
It just looks like LW's Node Editor...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScttSShgXlw

50one
12-10-2013, 05:12 PM
It just looks like LW's Node Editor...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScttSShgXlw


It's a platform to author shaders within different environments, games, apps etc. so it's not just the shading network it's procedural texturing tool, if you ever used mapzone, it's like mapzone on steroids:)

scratch33
12-11-2013, 08:20 AM
I really liked the look of substance designer. What is the difference between buying the standalone and buying the version specifically for say modo ?

You just buy standalone. In modo 701, substance is supported natively via a plugin already installed.
http://www.allegorithmic.com/substance-modo


Sensei

It just looks like LW's Node Editor...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScttSShgXlw



No it isn't. Take a better look... ;-)

http://www.allegorithmic.com/products/substance-designer-4

And coming soon :

http://www.allegorithmic.com/community/blog/introducing-substance-painter

hrgiger
12-11-2013, 06:54 PM
It says on the video ever growing native support. I wrote to ask about the possible support of LightWave.

But in the meantime, for $99, you can get non-commercial version which I may get for my personal projects.

tyrot
12-11-2013, 08:13 PM
Particle based painting? What is going on there!???!?!?!? WOW!!!!

spherical
12-11-2013, 10:25 PM
You just buy standalone. In modo 701, substance is supported natively via a plugin already installed.

Just want to clear any ambiguity. If I'm reading this correctly, all of the functionality of Substance Designer is IN MODO 701 and the Substance Designer standalone does not have to be installed on the machine for the MODO internal plugin to work?

prometheus
12-12-2013, 12:36 AM
Particle based painting? What is going on there!???!?!?!? WOW!!!!

yeah that is extremly cool, gives a new level of ways to distribute textures,shaders,displcacements,partice emission maps and even volumetric pixels on surfaces based on a dynamic force seen in nature such as wind,rain, particle impact, waterflow, heatflow etc.Need to keep an eye on that

scratch33
12-12-2013, 02:52 AM
Just want to clear any ambiguity. If I'm reading this correctly, all of the functionality of Substance Designer is IN MODO 701 and the Substance Designer standalone does not have to be installed on the machine for the MODO internal plugin to work?

Hi, here is an answer on this :

"Hi Francesco and rcallicotte,

No problem rcallicotte, thanks for jumping in : )

Substance Designer, both the Steam and Non-Steam versions are not used with MODO directly. The Modo substance plugin is what allows you to open substance files in modo and the plugin is the same no matter if you are using the Steam or Non Steam versions of Substance Designer. This is only 1 modo substance plugin. Substance Designer is used to create custom substance files which can the be opened in any substance enabled application such as modo, maya, 3ds max, UDK, Unity and Marmoset Toolbag.

The commercial version of Substance Designer, both the Steam and Non Steam is the same program. The difference with Steam is that it is distributed through the Steam Client. You do need to have Steam Client running to run Substance Designer Steam. With that said, the Steam version works like a floating license in that it is tied to your steam account.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Wes "

Then you can setup and modify the substance materials in modo.

spherical
12-12-2013, 08:35 PM
Thanks. I was expecting that. After reading this a few times, I get that the answer to my question is: "No. You have to have Substance Designer standalone in order for the Modo Plugin to work." This should be clearly spelled out; not couched in a bunch of corporate-speak that ends up with the customer disappointed because they have been misled by omission. Of course, the corporation will take the position that the customer assumed too much. Yeah, well if they talked in plain language and we assumed too much past that, that would be different.

hrgiger
12-13-2013, 12:45 AM
I got a reply back about my inquiry about native substance designer in LightWave. They said no plans in the short term but it may happen eventually. In the meantime, you can export bitmaps for use in LightWave.

CaptainMarlowe
12-15-2013, 11:17 AM
It's a platform to author shaders within different environments, games, apps etc. so it's not just the shading network it's procedural texturing tool, if you ever used mapzone, it's like mapzone on steroids:)

I may add that map zone is the "elder brother" of substance since it has been designed by the same guys. BTW, map zone is still available for free, and still very capable imho. For Mac users, it works fine (except for 3D preview) in Wine. I wrapped it as a native app with wineskin, without difficulty.
www.mapzoneeditor.com

rcallicotte
12-16-2013, 05:40 AM
Please contact Wes at Allegorithmic. You don't need the Standalone to run the plugin for Modo. The plugin works by itself and includes Substances.

The Steam version is something different than the regular version and is not the same subject.



Thanks. I was expecting that. After reading this a few times, I get that the answer to my question is: "No. You have to have Substance Designer standalone in order for the Modo Plugin to work." This should be clearly spelled out; not couched in a bunch of corporate-speak that ends up with the customer disappointed because they have been misled by omission. Of course, the corporation will take the position that the customer assumed too much. Yeah, well if they talked in plain language and we assumed too much past that, that would be different.

wesleyrm
12-16-2013, 11:23 AM
Hello,

My name is Wes McDermott. I work for Allegorithmic and would be happy to answer any questions.

In regards to plugins, you do NOT need Substance Designer to use substances in a host application. Substance Designer is a standalone application that allows you to create your own custom substance files. The plugins are used to load a compiled substance into a host application and the plugins are free.

Substance Designer is a full texturing application and you can create custom substances as well as batch export bitmaps. Currently, Substance is integrated into Maya, Max, MODO, Unity, UDK and Marmoset Toolbag. You can buy single substance file or a database of over 600 substances from our website.

http://www.allegorithmic.com/products/database

Currently we do not have a substance plugin for LightWave. This means you can't load substance files directly into Lightwave itself. However, you could use Substance Designer to author your own substance files and export bitmaps directly. Also, you could download our free substance player and export bitmaps from substances files for use in LightWave.

http://www.allegorithmic.com/products/substance-player

For example, we have a product called Bitmap2Material that you can use with Substance Player. Bitmap2Material allows you to input any bitmap and it will create a full material from that single image. It will create diffuse, specular, reflection, height, displacement, normal and ambient occlusion from the image and allow you to change parameters to create a specific effect. You can also make the image tileable across all outputs. Once you have the desired results for your texture, Substance Player can export the bitmaps for use in LightWave.

http://www.allegorithmic.com/products/bitmap2material

For LightWave users looking to get into Substance, I would suggest using the free Substance Player and purchasing individual substance files or bitmap2material. This way, Substance Player takes the place of the native plugin.

Let me know if you have any specific questions about Substance tools. Feel free to contact me directly at [email protected]

Cheers,

Wes

hrgiger
12-16-2013, 11:50 AM
Hi Wesleyrm. Was wondering about the possibility of substance as a plug-in for LightWave. Is that something n your end to do or is that something that LightWave developers will have to do to make it possible?

spherical
12-16-2013, 11:15 PM
For LightWave users looking to get into Substance, I would suggest using the free Substance Player and purchasing individual substance files or bitmap2material. This way, Substance Player takes the place of the native plugin.

Let me know if you have any specific questions about Substance tools.

Thank you, Wes, for a very clear and concise answer to my question. Much appreciated.

I'm assuming that Substance Designer incorporates all of the functionality of bitmap2material, so if I opt for B2M now to use it with LightWave, is there and upgrade path to SD?

bbuxton
02-14-2014, 02:45 PM
Substance Designer ships with Bitmap2Material lite. There is no upgrade path.
Very pleased that there is some talk of integration with Lightwave. However for me the most important features in Substance are the baking tools and mesh derived maps.
Perfectly usable with Lightwaves already very powerful nodal material system.

hrgiger
02-14-2014, 02:47 PM
Recently LW3DG asked us to like their status update on Facebook if we would want Substance for LightWave. So I'm wondering if that's something they're working on?

sadkkf
02-14-2014, 03:24 PM
Just got my first look at this. Very cool. I can see why there's so much interest in LW compatibility.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how this compares with ddo? I've been looking at that and it seems similar and cheaper. Only thing is, it relies on Photoshop and I'm not happy with Adobe anymore.

rcallicotte
02-25-2014, 07:07 PM
Please.

mummyman
03-18-2015, 07:46 AM
This would be very beneficial to have the LW plugin!!!!

mummyman
03-18-2015, 08:27 AM
Hello,

My name is Wes McDermott. I work for Allegorithmic and would be happy to answer any questions.

In regards to plugins, you do NOT need Substance Designer to use substances in a host application. Substance Designer is a standalone application that allows you to create your own custom substance files. The plugins are used to load a compiled substance into a host application and the plugins are free.

Substance Designer is a full texturing application and you can create custom substances as well as batch export bitmaps. Currently, Substance is integrated into Maya, Max, MODO, Unity, UDK and Marmoset Toolbag. You can buy single substance file or a database of over 600 substances from our website.

http://www.allegorithmic.com/products/database

Currently we do not have a substance plugin for LightWave. This means you can't load substance files directly into Lightwave itself. However, you could use Substance Designer to author your own substance files and export bitmaps directly. Also, you could download our free substance player and export bitmaps from substances files for use in LightWave.

http://www.allegorithmic.com/products/substance-player

For example, we have a product called Bitmap2Material that you can use with Substance Player. Bitmap2Material allows you to input any bitmap and it will create a full material from that single image. It will create diffuse, specular, reflection, height, displacement, normal and ambient occlusion from the image and allow you to change parameters to create a specific effect. You can also make the image tileable across all outputs. Once you have the desired results for your texture, Substance Player can export the bitmaps for use in LightWave.

http://www.allegorithmic.com/products/bitmap2material

For LightWave users looking to get into Substance, I would suggest using the free Substance Player and purchasing individual substance files or bitmap2material. This way, Substance Player takes the place of the native plugin.

Let me know if you have any specific questions about Substance tools. Feel free to contact me directly at [email protected]

Cheers,

Wes

Is there any hopes for a Lightwave plugin? Soon? Just starting to follow this amazing workflow program, and Lightwavers would MORE than welcome this type of flexibility, in program

jwiede
03-18-2015, 05:58 PM
Recently LW3DG asked us to like their status update on Facebook if we would want Substance for LightWave. So I'm wondering if that's something they're working on?

Well, I guess it's good that they're at least aware of it, but that they're still trying to decide whether Substance support is needed is pretty depressing as well, IMO.

rcallicotte
03-18-2015, 07:28 PM
Anything happening on this?

tonybliss
03-27-2015, 10:35 PM
bumping post, any further news on this ... i am interested in adding this tool to my methodologies

vonpietro
03-27-2015, 11:40 PM
its being incorporated into the game engines - LW should have this to be compatible with the game engines - and all the other softwares that will start including them.

this is a good bet.


Like them on face book? - they should offer a free chance to win a lightwave copy for everyone liking them on facebook - and see how many they rack up -
a give away - everyone who's liked them gets entered into a raffle. - really if you need the likes newtek do it right.

MSherak
03-27-2015, 11:49 PM
Being a user of Substance and DDO they are different texture generators. DDO is Photoshop based using native tools within PS to generate textures and normal maps. Substance is a nodal texture generator with some internal procedural functions that can be adjusted before texture generation which are saved in a compressed format. In the end with both packages you end up with textures, period. What Substance can do within a plugin of a 3D package is open up the tweaks as inputs. Something that a generated DDO texture can't do since you just save an image from PS like all images.

The area that this comes into question is do you make it a node or a custom loader for the image editor? If it is a node the question becomes can a texture be generated to the image editor? Also would the node just have outputs of the available channels to assign to the surface input with the tweaks as inputs? If it's a image loader where do the tweak parameters come in? Maybe tweaks are editable as a processing plugin when loaded so the image can re-generate after it's loaded? It's the texture storage area that comes into question for the LWDev team and how to implement it.

Personally the best way I would think would be in the image editor as a loader. Each output of the substance material would come in as an image with this process plugin assigned that contain the tweaks. Since images can already be loaded on a per frame basis it would make the tweaks have the ability to animate over time by adding a 'E' button. Also once loaded the image could be assigned anywhere within the package without major code changes.

-M

djwaterman
03-28-2015, 02:45 AM
It would be a valuable addition to Lightwave, how ever it is achieved. One can see that these speedy texturing options are becoming the standard workflow for fast content creation. It would be nice to create and bake out these kind of maps inside LW.

lightscape
03-28-2015, 03:04 AM
its being incorporated into the game engines - LW should have this to be compatible with the game engines - and all the other softwares that will start including them.

this is a good bet.




Lightwave needs to get on this resource sharing. Native support for sbar.

https://www.allegorithmic.com/sites/default/files/SubstanceSHARE.jpg

Posted this on the lightwave game dev thread. This is going to be an industry standard.

gerry_g
03-28-2015, 04:25 AM
why not just run the Blender native version or in standalone mode as Substance Designer if all you want is to generate games assets, as for LW Substance tops out at 4K res but thats [email protected] not the [email protected] you would be used to working with in Photoshop, yes it generates Curvature and Occlusion and Cavity maps but Dp Kit can do Curvature map and Edge node does similar, Grit does something like Cavity and there are several AO nodes, besides Substance and DDO are so ubiquitous that there is now clearly a generic 'Games Look' out there where everything looks the same, is that really what you want.

lightscape
03-28-2015, 07:56 AM
Native sbar support in lightwave is more than generating images.
The parameters are animatable and lots of effects can be done with texture effects from substances. Its like lw nodes but usable in other appz, by other people, in other pipelines.
Generic look is only because of the users lack of imagination.

gerry_g
03-28-2015, 10:20 AM
Also most of those free Substance textures that you download would be PBR's would they go natively directly into Lightwave or are you going to end up tweaking everything ?

hrgiger
03-28-2015, 01:57 PM
Here it is in Modo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1-iPexmJ1g

jwiede
03-28-2015, 10:07 PM
Also most of those free Substance textures that you download would be PBR's would they go natively directly into Lightwave or are you going to end up tweaking everything ?

If the Substance engine is embedded in LW, then presumably part of that work is calibrating the engine integration so that PBR materials look proper when displayed in LW. If you're asking about the case where you use the standalone version and just import Substance Player-generated image files, you would definitely need to tinker a bit to get the PBR materials looking the same in LW.

jwiede
03-28-2015, 10:10 PM
Here it is in Modo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1-iPexmJ1g

Yep, the modo integration is quite efficient and useful, IME. The 801 integration resolves a large number of issues & limitations present in the original 701 integration, as well.

jwiede
05-06-2015, 12:46 PM
Now Allegorithmic's released a native Cinema4D integration for Substance support.

https://www.allegorithmic.com/substance-cinema4d

http://www.maxon.net/en/news/singleview-default/article/cinema-4d-gets-native-support-for-allegorithmics-substance-technology.html

LW3DG really needs to reach out to Allegorithmic (if they haven't already) and do whatever's needed (throw cash, do the work for them, etc.) to get a LW integration of Substance support. Like Pixar PSubs/OpenSubDiv, etc. previously, integration of Substance support is becoming a de facto standard, with Max, Maya, Modo and C4D now offering native Substance support integrations.

seghier
05-06-2015, 01:54 PM
why you need plugin ?
you can paint and save textures like in mudbox ; zbrush and mari

lardbros
05-06-2015, 02:22 PM
I do think we need support for this too... Would be awesome. It would bring LightWave up to scratch with the competition too!

Ernest
05-06-2015, 04:58 PM
Substance tops out at 4K res but thats [email protected] not the [email protected] you would be used to working with in Photoshop.

But that is 4K texture resolution. (as in: resulting bitmap) A 4K texture is the same 4000*4000 pixels at 72dpi, at 300dpi, and/or at 3000000dpi. There should not be any difference.

spherical
05-06-2015, 05:43 PM
DPI is device-dependent. IOW, it only matters when you output to physical media. Internally, all that matters is the raw number of pixels.

jwiede
05-06-2015, 08:02 PM
why you need plugin ?
you can paint and save textures like in mudbox ; zbrush and mari

If you're referring to using Substance Designer to generate maps, that approach doesn't allow you to easily animate procedural texture parameters you (or other Substance authors) have exposed, among other reasons. Plus, there are clearly workflow efficiency benefits being able to access substances in the 3D pkg itself.

If you meant something else, you'll need to explain your point a bit better, it wasn't clear.

seghier
05-06-2015, 10:08 PM
If you're referring to using Substance Designer to generate maps, that approach doesn't allow you to easily animate procedural texture parameters you (or other Substance authors) have exposed, among other reasons. Plus, there are clearly workflow efficiency benefits being able to access substances in the 3D pkg itself.

If you meant something else, you'll need to explain your point a bit better, it wasn't clear.

thanks
i see this software since its beta version and i like they usind particles to create realistic effects ; we simply import objects and play with texture than create maps and use them with any software
if here they want a plugin without need to buy standalone application ; they are right and free :)

lightscape
05-06-2015, 11:47 PM
Here it is in Modo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1-iPexmJ1g


Yep that show's how easy it is to do effects like water turning to ice, aging effects, dirt effects and other procedural, modular, parametric adjustment within Modo. And its not exclusive to Modo. Any software that has native Substance support can do that.
Sadly Lightwave is left out again.

Modo will have Houdini engine support soon and ofcourse Fabric engine is already in beta. What on earth is LWG doing?

CaptainMarlowe
05-09-2015, 01:43 AM
thanks
i see this software since its beta version and i like they usind particles to create realistic effects ; we simply import objects and play with texture than create maps and use them with any software
if here they want a plugin without need to buy standalone application ; they are right and free :)

You are confused here between substance painter (what you describe) and substance designer, which has been around a lot longer and is now to V5. It is true that with painter you basically just paint textures and maps. But with designer, you can also "rig" your substances to be animatable on a parametric base in your app : You could think of doors opening and closing, lights flickering, cracks appearing on your ground texture, rust crawling on your mesh, whatever you need... For this kind of tasks, designer is incredibly more powerful than painter, and I do agree with the others that we could greatly take advantage of having substances inside Lightwave : lightweight animatable procedural materials is basically what Substance designer does, and it's really a great addition.
Of course, you could argue that you can create the same nodally inside Lightwave manually, but with a lot more work.
This said I remember a tweet long ago from LW3DG where they wrote they were looking into this (I was hoping this integration for 2015, but it was not the case. If they happen to integrate substance support in LW2016, I won't even think twice before upgrading).

lightscape
05-10-2015, 11:36 PM
Of course, you could argue that you can create the same nodally inside Lightwave manually, but with a lot more work.
This said I remember a tweet long ago from LW3DG where they wrote they were looking into this (I was hoping this integration for 2015, but it was not the case. If they happen to integrate substance support in LW2016, I won't even think twice before upgrading).

Same here.

seghier
05-11-2015, 01:01 AM
response from Allegorithmic
Substance by Allegorithmic : Unfortunately, there are no plans for a Lightwave plugin at this time.

lightscape
05-11-2015, 01:24 AM
responce from Allegorithmic
Substance by Allegorithmic : Unfortunately, there are no plans for a Lightwave plugin at this time.

The EFFORT has to come from Newtek. If they don't reach out and ask help to integrate it then there won't Substance support.

Obscure software like Mixamo supports Substances. Even lowend software like Iclone supports Substance.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITrNzOlF0aM

Lewis
05-11-2015, 02:25 AM
The EFFORT has to come from Newtek. If they don't reach out and ask help to integrate it then there won't Substance support.


True, and yet thy don't even talk to us/users :(.

seghier
05-11-2015, 02:30 AM
if the plugin not free why they don't want create it ? the users and studios will pay

jburford
05-11-2015, 03:21 AM
I may add that map zone is the "elder brother" of substance since it has been designed by the same guys. BTW, map zone is still available for free, and still very capable imho. For Mac users, it works fine (except for 3D preview) in Wine. I wrapped it as a native app with wineskin, without difficulty.
www.mapzoneeditor.com


Thanks for the Great Tip!

Cheers Jeff

jburford
05-11-2015, 03:40 AM
why not just run the Blender native version

Confused here, Blender Native Version? I do not see a Blender Native Version at all, thought there was licensing problems where this would not happen?

jburford
05-11-2015, 04:03 AM
Now Allegorithmic's released a native Cinema4D integration for Substance support.

https://www.allegorithmic.com/substance-cinema4d

http://www.maxon.net/en/news/singleview-default/article/cinema-4d-gets-native-support-for-allegorithmics-substance-technology.html

LW3DG really needs to reach out to Allegorithmic (if they haven't already) and do whatever's needed (throw cash, do the work for them, etc.) to get a LW integration of Substance support. Like Pixar PSubs/OpenSubDiv, etc. previously, integration of Substance support is becoming a de facto standard, with Max, Maya, Modo and C4D now offering native Substance support integrations.


Just caught the notice on the Cinema 4D Integration, damn this is sweet! Downloading now. . . .

Might be worthwhile picking up the Indie Version, especially if one can then go between the various Apps that support it.

Will cross my fingers for a LW Version also!

jwiede
05-11-2015, 12:45 PM
response from Allegorithmic
Substance by Allegorithmic : Unfortunately, there are no plans for a Lightwave plugin at this time.

Then it isn't happening. Integrating substance support requires licensing the middleware from Allegorithmic, so regardless of who does the actual integration work, Allegorithmic are involved in every integration. If they're not aware of it, it isn't happening. That need for integrating licensed Allegorithmic middleware is also blocking Blender integration, IIRC.

jwiede
05-11-2015, 12:52 PM
Just caught the notice on the Cinema 4D Integration, damn this is sweet! Downloading now. . . .

Might be worthwhile picking up the Indie Version, especially if one can then go between the various Apps that support it.

Yeah, I spent time playing with it, and was quite impressed with the initial integration job they did, Allegorithmic's also quite responsive on issues.

BTW, if you have Pixelberg as well, apparently Substances and Pixelberg renderer work very well together (as you'd expect) for real-time workflow.