PDA

View Full Version : RHiggit V2... Open Beta Announcement.



RebelHill
11-29-2013, 10:43 PM
So here it is... at long last... RHiggit V2!

More than just an update to the existing plugin, this is an entirely new toolset, built from scratch and incorporates a great many of the features and tools that users have been wanting to see (pretty much) since the first version was released. Most importantly, this new version doesnt simply advance things from previous, it takes the tools and workflows to all new heights and (imo), if you look around at the various other autoriggers going about for all the other apps, RHiggit 2 doesn't just represent a step forward for LightWave... it's one of the most versatile, flexible and fast such toolsets available anywhere (ok, CAT maybe notwithstanding, it is pretty hard to beat the king).

So take a look at this overview of the features and workflow on offer in this pre-release video and judge for yourselves how this stands to put LightWave "in the game". (a bit lengthy I know, but there's a LOT to show).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Ml1x9Dzvs

I shall now be opening this fella up for pre-release as an open beta (details [important details] will be posted on the usual page... link in the sig) to any who want to get their hands on this new toolset sooner rather than later... I'll be offering special "first-look" pricing during this beta period, for both new customers, as well as upgraders owning either RHiggit Pro or Lite V1x.

So for the real pitch...

As I said up top, this new version and its tools are largely the result of all the user feedback, suggestions, and wishlisting that were the product of the original version of RHiggit... but that's no reason to sit still on things. The main reason for opening this tool up for release at this time is so that as many folk as possible can get in early, play experiment and offer their feedback... This is a toolset for the end users at the end of the day, and that is you guys. What feels right, what feels wrong, what's intuitive, how could it be more so... all these things are going to be fundamental to the future of the tool and its direction. RHiggit 1 was pretty good... but it hit the wall and couldnt go any further, hence this all new tool... I dont believe this is something that should be let happen too easily again.

So this first "gold" release, when it comes, won't just be some "well-aimed" version that may need some kind of large scale changes for future versions as things iron themselves out... It will be the foundation upon which future releases are built, new tools added on. It HAS to be gotten right (or as close as possible) from the start, that's what I believe. Doing that will aid in the future development and advancement of the toolset, as well as the end user experience.

And please... DONT be put off participating if you think you dont know that much about rigging, or the inner workings of these types of tools... You shouldnt have to... thats the whole point! What I want more than anything is to make a tool that is as simple, intuitive and artist friendly as can possibly be made, to fit every kind of user of every skill level and their workflow preferences. ALL input, feedback and ideas about what you'd like to see and how you'd like to see it implemented are welcomed and encouraged as much as possible. Every contribution is valuable.

Cheers all.

I hope very much you like it.

chikega
11-29-2013, 11:02 PM
Why aren't you on Newtek's payroll?! Wow! :D

jwiede
11-29-2013, 11:39 PM
Looks amazing, count me in. And yeah, a wee bit off the rails at the end. The topic IS interesting, but... :twak:

ksnoad
11-29-2013, 11:49 PM
Wow! Looking good :)

Kev xx

hrgiger
11-30-2013, 01:10 AM
Awesome Craig. The non destructive aspect of this looks amazing. Definitely interested.

EDIT: I spoke too soon, I just finished watching the video. Just wow. Copying and pasting poses AND motions between characters -superb. And motion capture. The Trex playing football is hilarious. Will definitely be getting Rhiggit 2.

alperocak
11-30-2013, 01:16 AM
This is amazing Rebelhill.

Hail
11-30-2013, 01:36 AM
Wow! Just WOW!!!

50one
11-30-2013, 02:35 AM
Amazing!

ekho
11-30-2013, 03:02 AM
Rebelhill you are crazy, fantastic stuff! :beerchug:

Hail
11-30-2013, 03:54 AM
Why is Craig still not part of the LW3D group?
The rigging/animation dept would immensely benefit from his expertise.

Pls HIRE this guy Mr Powers;)

pinkmouse
11-30-2013, 04:17 AM
Interesting stuff.

I noted you mentioned your interest in real world anatomy, and was wondering if your system can help simulate this. As someone who hasn't really got into CA, one of the things that is offputting is the fact that it seems very difficult to get joints to behave in a "real world" way. For instance, in a standard T pose, an elbow can only move about 160 degrees forward in heading, it has no other freedom of movement. Any rotation of the arm to get say, palms facing forwards, comes from the wrist and shoulder joints, the elbow doesn't rotate at all. Vertebrae might only have a few degrees of movement in HPB, and no linear movement relative to each other.

As an example, your bit on the TRex toes with splines, shows them peeling from the ground, nice effect, but the tendons in the foot would prevent such extreme floppyness. Can this be tuned out by setting limits on relative movement?

Lord Beowulf
11-30-2013, 04:33 AM
Awesome!

Ryan Roye
11-30-2013, 07:45 AM
Might want to fix the head of that rex. You can't move the head controller with the global root. :)

The main root offset also has problems.

Mathias Stolley
11-30-2013, 09:23 AM
Hoping for some game rigging and export/import features for modern game engines like unity and a good update price.
The video is jawdropping :)

hazmat777
11-30-2013, 10:02 AM
Will RHiggit V2 work with LW 9.6.1 64 bit windows? Can't afford 11.6 right now.

This looks amazing, holy smokes!

djwaterman
11-30-2013, 11:02 AM
My Goodness, I wish I was doing character animation enough to be part of the testing. You've done an amazing job with it, it looks like it would make animation really fun again.

m.d.
11-30-2013, 12:07 PM
Wow...

You've outdone yourself craig.....looks really really good

2 feature requests....both ala motionbuilder....
(forgive me if i missed these...I only had 10 minutes to scan your video before having to get my nose back into editing)

1. Mirror pose would be awesome to add in

2. The very best part of Motionbuilder is the capability of multiple layers of animation. I realize there is some modification control over top of existing keyframes (mocap) already built into your system....but a lot of that functionality can get lost in the complexity of the rig (speaking from limited LW CA experience)....meaning it may not be terribly obvious.

Could there be a way to delineate and organize a secondary rig to add layers of animation on top of existing keyframes?

Ideally there would be a one click system that would hide the components of the primary rig, and add a secondary rig to place modified keyframes on top of the existing one.

I am sure it is way more complicated then that.....I am just hoping to get animation layers somehow in LW....in a clear concise format so you know what layer you are working on ect.

jasonwestmas
11-30-2013, 12:19 PM
You make setup and LW fun! I like your abstract approach to rigging too. :)

sudac20
11-30-2013, 12:25 PM
+1 for pose mirroring

Stretchy rig would also be nice

Surrealist.
11-30-2013, 01:20 PM
Outa' control! It may be RHiggit v2 but if you are a LighWave animator more like LightWave v13-14 if you are half lucky.

Because I can not imagine anything nearly as good coming from anywhere but right here. But of NT knows what is good form them, they would hire you on the spot, hands down no questions at the very very very very least as a highly paid hourly consultant. Fly you to their offices, put you up in a hotel, feed you, wine you, dine you, send you to Universal Cities tour up the hill for free on the weekend, Disneyland, all the sites in LA. And sit down with you at LW3DGroup offices in Burbank and completely redesign the animating system in LightWave. Or at the very least, then have you there and pay you handsomely to integrate RHiggit into LightWave With Genoma (being updated as Lino is promising) and IKB, this would give users the ultimate in choice for rigging and animating LightWave.

Regardless if you are an animator in LightWave and you don't use and integrate this into your workflow, you'd probably have to have your head examined. OK that's harsh. To each his own. But really it is that good IMHO.

And I love the fact that you can animate in IKB and then use those FK rotations back on the Rigit IK rig. Wow, just frikn wow!

Phil
11-30-2013, 02:08 PM
It looks really neat and clearly represents a lot of hard work and careful thought. I hope the rewards, in terms of sales, reflect that investment.

hrgiger
11-30-2013, 02:14 PM
Because I can not imagine anything nearly as good coming from anywhere but right here. But of NT knows what is good form them, they would hire you on the spot, hands down no questions at the very very very very least as a highly paid hourly consultant.

+1

VonBon
11-30-2013, 02:18 PM
I wanna help Beta Test.

mav3rick
11-30-2013, 03:37 PM
well done sir now and now...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4a9wn8Roc1qb2r11.gif

Lewis
11-30-2013, 03:39 PM
Excellent work Craig, that seems vera easy evne for no CA peopel to use :).

One question. can you load BVH motion (standard Lw load BVH) and Retarget that to any character (or T-Rex ;)) and bake as *.mdd ?

thanks

Kryslin
11-30-2013, 04:04 PM
Count me in for the Beta. I've a character mesh that should provide a challenge... I know it did with Genoma. :)

Waves of light
11-30-2013, 04:13 PM
This looks amazing.

RebelHill
11-30-2013, 04:32 PM
Wow all... Im so very happy that you seem to be so pleased with what Ive got here... really... If this all works out to give you the faster, better, more powerful workflows Im hoping it will, then Im overjoyed.

The beta is now OPEN and ready to receive...

www.rebelhill.net/html/rhiggit

One small note... if you bought RHiggit Pro version 1x during the last 3 months... DO NOT buy into the beta... you will be upgraded for free.. Emails with links for those folks will be going out shortly, if you are such a someone, and have not received the link by this time tomorrow, let me know.

Cheers all.

mav3rick
11-30-2013, 05:17 PM
i am worse than my fiancee :) my credit card couldn't resist :)

Surrealist.
11-30-2013, 05:51 PM
I usually check things out before opening my big fat mouth, but from the looks of this, it makes LW 11.6 a potentially formidable animation package. And that is saying a lot - as anyone around can agree - for LightWave. In fact even with all of the new enhancements to the 11+ cycle this is the only thing that has even made me seriously consider upgrading to 11. NewTek should be sending you a royalty check. And certainly this could be the LWCAD for layout. And I would not be surprised if a bundle package deal with Rhiggit becomes a reality in the future.

UnCommonGrafx
11-30-2013, 07:36 PM
Oh boy.
That's really a lot of thought and work it looks has gone into this product.

Just nifty stuff. This will actually make this stuff all ... a bit more interactive to do since there is no back and forth betwixt the two apps. Meaning: fun.
Thanks for making life easier.
Waiting on my email!

Kryslin
11-30-2013, 08:48 PM
Money Away...

jwiede
11-30-2013, 10:54 PM
Money Away...

Aye, mine as well. Looking fwd to playing with v2!

Pignoo
12-01-2013, 04:01 AM
Very interesting....really good job !
But what about cartoon rigging ? With squash and stretch parts ( Ice age, Madagascar, etc.... )
And secondary motions with bones dynamic....

How this kind of rig could be done ?

ianr
12-01-2013, 09:03 AM
Big smiles To CHUCK @ newtek lightwave

Good Day Chuck,
you might consider makin'
this sticky in: Third Party Knowwhaddimean?

laters

RebelHill
12-01-2013, 09:08 AM
Hey all...

So busy morning here getting all the emails out, licences cut, etc... but all done now.

Everyone who's purchased so far should have had their links now, and also those entitled to free upgrade should have theirs too... If you've not so received yet... let me know asap.

Now onto some of the Qs asked here...

Pinkmouse - anatomical "simulation" like that is really a whole different kettle of fish. Its more akin to physics sims than character rigs. Sure you can put limits on some things to restrict their range of motion, but that's not so easy to do in a general rigging tool that might have to do realistic creatures in one instance, and cartoony ones in the next. Even if you created some "post process" tool that would add such things, how would you auto set the limits without the user having to dial each one in anyway... a gymnast for example has a far greater range of flexibility than, say, me. You're right that Trex toes wouldnt really glide like that, but it is through animating the foot controls that you give the impression that they are bearing weight rather than just slipping around. Constructing the illusion that a geometric, non physical character mesh is subject to the laws of physics acting on its mass, muscles and tendons is part of the skill of the animator.

Hazmat... sadly not... THis new version draws on additions that have been made recently to LW, and the tool requires 11.6 to use. As noted on the site theres a remote chance that a version could be produced to function with 10.1+, but 9.6 is a no go Im afraid.

Md... Yes, animation layers are PHENOMENALLY useful... their lack in LW is (so far as I have seen) the #1 complaint from character animators. You can "cheat" such a thing in LW by adding "offsets" betwixt things, as whist its good for major parts (shoulder/hip/roots/goals) managing sets of them for an entire rig would be pretty painful. Its something that *might* be possible to build (its hard to say without trying it if it would cause dysfunction or not)... but one thing that is certain si that having an "offset rig" like that embedded into a rig would make the rig itself a pretty unholy mess, and by the time you had gotten 2 or 3 such layers in there... I predict your framerate would almost grind to a halt. So not impossible, but I think an unlikely addition... What REALLY needs to happen is for LW to get an animation layer system built into the app itself, thats the only true solution.

Lewis... bvh... sure... Retargeting is retargeting, the aim of the one Im hoping to eventually inject into RHiggit is that it'll work off of any mocap hierarchy, irrespective of joint orientations/structure/bone count, etc.

Surrealist... Formidable animation app eh... Well (obviously) I think LW is pretty capable for an awful lot of animation work... I do. But I don't think RHiggit alone can hope to make it into a some kind of powerhouse for such... There are things in LW itself that need to be added/fixed, etc (we've all seen the topics Im sure, like layers mentioned above). What I think RHiggit absolutely does though is to provide for fast, fast workflow in getting characters setup and ready to animate as best as you can do in LW, certainly in this aspect I believe it gives it an edge over many other apps. Ofc, as shown, its also intended to give artists freedom to rig, and setup control systems they way they want, rather than be locked in to a specific template "character" as is the norm in most other autoriggers. That kind of freedom, versatility, customisability and artist (rather than technical) centred workflow is something that I think RHiggit does to really set itself apart from other solutions.

Pignoo... Yep... SnS WILL feature in there (it'll be part of the deform rig system which is currently in basic operation). Obviously, there are issues surrounding things like lattice deforms, scale space etc inherent to LW that there are options for in other apps, which RHiggit cant solve... but I do promise you'll see some well thought out SnS stuff available in RHiggit which will let you get the best that LW is capable of.
Cheers all.

Surrealist.
12-01-2013, 11:52 AM
Surrealist... Formidable animation app eh... Well (obviously) I think LW is pretty capable for an awful lot of animation work... I do. But I don't think RHiggit alone can hope to make it into a some kind of powerhouse for such... There are things in LW itself that need to be added/fixed, etc (we've all seen the topics Im sure, like layers mentioned above). What I think RHiggit absolutely does though is to provide for fast, fast workflow in getting characters setup and ready to animate as best as you can do in LW, certainly in this aspect I believe it gives it an edge over many other apps. Ofc, as shown, its also intended to give artists freedom to rig, and setup control systems they way they want, rather than be locked in to a specific template "character" as is the norm in most other autoriggers. That kind of freedom, versatility, customisability and artist (rather than technical) centred workflow is something that I think RHiggit does to really set itself apart from other solutions.

Yes. Agreed on all points. Just remember this comment is coming from someone who actually uses MotionBuilder, Maya and Softimage. Three of the best animation and rigging software available in my opinion, all with different reasons and strengths of course. ICE rigging is just outa control as hell!

But your RHigit 2. product (potentially I have not even used yet) turns LightWave into something I have never seen (in LightWave) during the time I have been around which has been since 1992, nearly the beginning of LightWave as we know it today. And the comment was intended not to be taken as a statement broadly against all other solutions and industry offerings, nor as a negation of the current issues with LightWave, but a simple fact that this looks like it turns LightWave into a formidable animation app. Which in my opinion it does comparatively speaking to a person who uses LightWave, and especially if they use it exclusively. Mileage may vary opinions may differ. But what you are offering animators is quite a lot of flexibility and features that before this have never really been around in LightWave AFAIK - ever. (at least not to my knowledge in a commercial offering) Otherwise you would not have made it.

And also it does as you say have some features that set it apart from the other solutions I am aware of anyway. Which is in itself an attractive aspect to it.

I was literally blown away!

Very well done.

hrgiger
12-01-2013, 12:39 PM
I posted the Rhiggit 2 Open Beta announcement on the Luxology/Foundry forums since there are a lot of current and former LW users there. It has gotten a very positive response. Even Lukasz Pazera who created ACS4 for LW and now creates ACS for Modo said it was an impressive feat and acknowledged the knowledge that Craig must have about rigging in LightWave. Now they're wanting ACS to be more like Rhiggit 2 :).

m.d.
12-01-2013, 01:05 PM
Md... Yes, animation layers are PHENOMENALLY useful... their lack in LW is (so far as I have seen) the #1 complaint from character animators. You can "cheat" such a thing in LW by adding "offsets" betwixt things, as whist its good for major parts (shoulder/hip/roots/goals) managing sets of them for an entire rig would be pretty painful. Its something that *might* be possible to build (its hard to say without trying it if it would cause dysfunction or not)... but one thing that is certain si that having an "offset rig" like that embedded into a rig would make the rig itself a pretty unholy mess, and by the time you had gotten 2 or 3 such layers in there... I predict your framerate would almost grind to a halt. So not impossible, but I think an unlikely addition... What REALLY needs to happen is for LW to get an animation layer system built into the app itself, thats the only true solution.



Yes I realized this as I was posting it.....LW is slow enough with 1 or 2 rigs...
I just thought....... since you were working miracles anyway....:D


My first request was far more practical and (I hope) doable....that being pose mirroring

RebelHill
12-01-2013, 01:15 PM
Oh yes... pose mirroring, couple folks mentioned that...

Yeah, that'll be in there, along with partial pose copy/paste (atm it only does the whole character)... just making sure the general case works before I cut it into separate specialist versions.

Chris S. (Fez)
12-01-2013, 01:17 PM
Yep... SnS WILL feature in there (it'll be part of the deform rig system which is currently in basic operation). Obviously, there are issues surrounding things like lattice deforms, scale space etc inherent to LW that there are options for in other apps, which RHiggit cant solve... but I do promise you'll see some well thought out SnS stuff available in RHiggit which will let you get the best that LW is capable of.


Excellent.

RebelHill
12-01-2013, 01:23 PM
this comment is coming from someone who actually uses MotionBuilder, Maya and Softimage.

Actually (and I dont say this much), but me too.

Most all the gigs I do finish up in LW, but its certainly NOT the primary app I use for the actual CA itself (mostly MB, occasionally maya, and SI really just for the dynamics, yes ICE is awesome)... Only turn to LW when there's something "specialist" I need to whip up rig wise (as its the app Im fastest/stongest in).

But irrespective of any of that, I would very much like to see the actual "animation core" of LW brought up to speed more, but in the meantime, Im pretty committed to trying my best to pick up the slack and deliver improved, high class solutions and tools for other users, more so than for my own self.

Surrealist.
12-01-2013, 01:53 PM
Interesting, I kinda gathered that. It shows. And it further validates my contention that improvement to LightWave desperately needs to come from people who are very well versed and practiced in tools and options outside of LightWave. Not because LightWave needs to be more like brand X but because there is no sense in re-inventing the wheel. And it is an intimate awareness of the existing technology, not ignorance of it, that allows one to develop things to the next level, if the intent it so be unique and different.

I think from what I have seen there are elements in this version that do that.

I really do think that LightrWave core changes in animation will come if NewTek brings people in from the outside to re-develop it.

It is a controversial point. But I really do think these tools speak for themselves to make it. I hope NewTek is taking notes.

chikega
12-01-2013, 02:56 PM
+1


Interesting, I kinda gathered that. It shows. And it further validates my contention that improvement to LightWave desperately needs to come from people who are very well versed and practiced in tools and options outside of LightWave. Not because LightWave needs to be more like brand X but because there is no sense in re-inventing the wheel. And it is an intimate awareness of the existing technology, not ignorance of it, that allows one to develop things to the next level, if the intent it so be unique and different.

I think from what I have seen there are elements in this version that do that.

I really do think that LightrWave core changes in animation will come if NewTek brings people in from the outside to re-develop it.

It is a controversial point. But I really do think these tools speak for themselves to make it. I hope NewTek is taking notes.

m.d.
12-01-2013, 03:36 PM
Oh yes... pose mirroring, couple folks mentioned that...

Yeah, that'll be in there, along with partial pose copy/paste (atm it only does the whole character)... just making sure the general case works before I cut it into separate specialist versions.


sweet...totally forgot about partial pose mirroring

JamesCurtis
12-01-2013, 07:56 PM
Don't know if it's been asked here, but what is the price for the beta in USD?

spherical
12-01-2013, 08:17 PM
According to current exchange rates, it's $130.76 for an upgrade from RH-Pro, $196.14 from RH-Lite and $212.50 for an original standalone license.

erikals
12-01-2013, 09:39 PM
looks Awesome! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif

one thing i'd love to see is not only a pose copy/paste, but a function that copies poses to a list so you can reload them later on... that'd be lovely too... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

jasonwestmas
12-01-2013, 09:57 PM
yes, better lister for sets and poses would improve things.

sukardi
12-01-2013, 10:56 PM
Looking real good. Definitely getting this...

hrgiger
12-02-2013, 02:43 AM
looks Awesome! http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/king.gif

one thing i'd love to see is not only a pose copy/paste, but a function that copies poses to a list so you can reload them later on... that'd be lovely too... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

This is kind of what I was thinking. Would it be possible to store a pose as a thumbnail in some type of panel so you could browse from a library of poses?

Megalodon2.0
12-02-2013, 03:35 AM
This is kind of what I was thinking. Would it be possible to store a pose as a thumbnail in some type of panel so you could browse from a library of poses?

Couldn't we also have the same thing for motions?

erikals
12-02-2013, 04:35 AM
This is kind of what I was thinking. Would it be possible to store a pose as a thumbnail in some type of panel so you could browse from a library of poses?

as far as screen-grabbing the pose, no, unless you are willing to through in an AHK script
(or possibly write a c-code .p plugin, which not many can)

having predefined thumbnails only, yes, i did something similar some time back.

RebelHill
12-02-2013, 06:16 AM
Yes, pose cpoy/paste uses a file output anyway atm (which I did so as I could read through it and check what the data was to ensure the character space retargeting was getting the right info)... I was gonna switch this back to a memory based array at some point (simply for cleanliness), but there's no reason I cant maintain a copy of the existing function to give pose save/load as well (shoulda thought of it before really)... as part of the pose data includes the proportions of things, and their relative positions at bind pose (hence the character space retargeting).

Doing lil image thumbs... gotta be honest, wouldnt really know where to start, maybe worth a look at a later date... but for this first release I could sure implement a list based system where you could get named poses from a user designated save directory, no problem.

Ryan Roye
12-02-2013, 07:50 AM
Doing lil image thumbs... gotta be honest, wouldnt really know where to start, maybe worth a look at a later date... but for this first release I could sure implement a list based system where you could get named poses from a user designated save directory, no problem.

One snag i've found in every single plugin/function of Lightwave's (both 3rd party and integrated) that handles motion/pose loading is the fact that there isn't any quick way to load multiple motions. All of them use some kind of directory tree to make it work, and the dialogue must be "re-invoked" in order to do something else.

If you really wanted to go above and beyond what's currently available, you'd need to create a function that lets users load motions in a non-obtrusive manner that doesn't require repeated invocations of the dialogue.

hrgiger
12-02-2013, 09:14 AM
rebel, as far as the thumbnail thing goes, maybe ask Viktor Velicko (LWCAD) he might have an idea for you or may just be able to point you in the right direction. LWCAD generates thumbnails based on objects in the viewport for use in preset library. Just a thought.

andyhow
12-02-2013, 10:14 AM
I own a copy of rhiggit pro (hobby purposes only) for more than a year and I've never been able to use it at all. It's very unfriendly. The moment I finalise it, hell breaks loose. For example, your tutorial of using a Standard Biped and replace it with Han Solo T-pose is inconsistent. Actual mesh given is not T-Pose. No big deal you'd say. Just tweak the positions. But when I tried to repose the skeletal structure, the ankle does not move at all. There doesn't seem to be a null or whatever to move it. Admittedly, I'm a complete newbie in the CA dept. so it's kind of disappointing after spending money on it and it's so unfriendly. What seems SO EASY in your YT videos usually end up almost undoable when I actually try it. So my question is, is this V2 also going to be another episode of 'nerve-wrecking for experts only plugin'? Actually, I've been more productive with Genoma but I do hope your plugin actually delivers more than that.

RebelHill
12-02-2013, 10:26 AM
I suspect you've been moving the wrong parts... you dont move the skeleton (and it wont move because its positionally locked)... you move the markers, whilst paying attention to which axis are and arent locked for a given marker (moving a marker on a default locked axis will cause errors).

If you see the guide vids ( http://www.rebelhill.net/RHiggit/Pro/rhp-vids.zip ), and check the documentation PDF, they explain how to use the marker layout to refit a rig to a character

nickdigital
12-02-2013, 11:12 AM
Gotta find some tissue. There's brain matter all over my desk now cuz you blew my mind.

Kryslin
12-02-2013, 11:24 AM
So far, I'm finding the Beta to be easy enough to use (and I'm no expert user). Since it's also BETA software, I'm not screaming about every little bit I find that's gone wrong, because that's what an open beta is about - finding the little broken bits, and letting the dev know about them, so he can get them fixed. Even though I'm trying my best to break the thing as I use it (which is what a beta tester is supposed to do), I'm finding it easy to use, and a GREAT timesaver in rigging alone (I can manually rig my initial test mesh in roughly 8 hours - 4 for the body, 4 for the face). That's down to about an hour for the body now. As far as CA goes, I'm an utter newb, so I look forward to what damage I can cause in that department. :)

RebelHill
12-02-2013, 12:22 PM
That's down to about an hour for the body now.

Just wait till you get a lil more time with it and more used to it... that'll be down to 20mins (:

erikals
12-02-2013, 01:00 PM
Gotta find some tissue. There's brain matter all over my desk now cuz you blew my mind.

LoL of the day,... \:D

Davewriter
12-02-2013, 03:39 PM
Oh sure, there was that new Iron Lung I was going to give my sister for Christmas...
But then other things take top prioity.
Here - take my money!

optikanet
12-02-2013, 05:23 PM
Hi... Completely new to rigging, so if you don't mind me joining the beta, then perhaps I can give you the perspective of somebody fresh to the whole experience. I don't know if that will be useful to you or not...

I'm wondering to what extent Rhiggit will allow things like fat simulations etc - do you build those into the rig, or do you use something like softbody dynamics in LW to handle this?

See? Told you I was a newbie...

Kind Regards
Dave

RebelHill
12-02-2013, 08:13 PM
Why would I mind...

And ok... so, soft tissue simulation. Thats not something LWs particularly good at. If youve seen examples of such elsewhere, then you're likely thinking of something that LW doesnt really have. The general methods are to either put in additonal bones that get some kind of "wobble" animation or other (techniques vary from just keying it, to using different motion control methods) and/or softbody stuff such as softFX, etc. Its generally a character specific thing, so not something tahts easily taken care of autorig wise.

optikanet
12-03-2013, 07:53 AM
My concern is hands - i want to be able to drive tendons and skin in a realistic manner. I also want to be able to animate muscle deformations in a realistic way, semi-automated...

Kind Regards
Dave

RebelHill
12-03-2013, 07:56 AM
new beta version is up for those who are in... Details, etc in the beta thread... http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?138980-RHiggit-2-beta-discussion-thread

RebelHill
12-03-2013, 08:01 AM
My concern is hands - i want to be able to drive tendons and skin in a realistic manner. I also want to be able to animate muscle deformations in a realistic way, semi-automated...

Depends on exactly what you mean by realistic (or just how realistic). You can certainly get stuff that looks pretty damn good out of LW... though its a lot of work to do well, and there really isnt a way to automate it. Stuff like that you pretty much have to build on a case by case basis and will require a good understanding of both the rigging tools, the displacement system, and ideally nodes, not to mention how to correctly intermix them with one another to produce "combined" effects. Mesh construction itself also plays a part, so there's things to get right even before you go near rigging itself (and ofc to be gotten right in a way that fit into the future plan of how things are going to be rigged ultimately).

Now if we're talking realistic on the level of things you're used to seeing in the movies... like the hulk in the avengers, or gollum in the hobbit... forget it. There's a reason why effects of that level require teams of highly skilled artists and programmers to put together (often using proprietary software) and cost millions of dollars to produce.

erikals
12-03-2013, 05:46 PM
yep, it'd be nice to have something like this, but i guess we have to wait a bit...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAeFFofE-vI

optikanet
12-06-2013, 12:12 PM
I have bought into the beta, but I think I'm having problems with my email (I haven't received any new emails for two days) and after being directed to Paypal to make payment, I was not redirected back to the page. How do I access the beta?

Kind Regards
Dave

RebelHill
12-06-2013, 12:40 PM
Your mail should be along any moment now... let me know if it doesn't arrive.

Cheers.

optikanet
12-06-2013, 12:50 PM
I've just found out that my domain name has expired two days ago (and nobody thought to mention this to me...). I've renewed it now, but there will be a delay while "your order is checked by a representative" and during that time my email will not be working. Worse, any emails sent to me in the last 48 hours are probably lost, I'm guessing...

Annoying. I didn't know...

Kind Regards
Dave

optikanet
12-06-2013, 01:21 PM
Email is now working again, but I haven't received anything from you, can you resend please?

Kind Regards
Dave

RebelHill
12-06-2013, 01:40 PM
done

optikanet
12-06-2013, 01:57 PM
Thank you.

Kind Regards
Dave

Samus
12-06-2013, 02:38 PM
Hi RebelHill , Maybe off topic but still linked to character animation. Your Tool "RH curve Swich" is awsome for animation but i often come to the same wish every time i use it, and that is : if it could switch from Step curves to Linear and other curves For all objects in your scene without selecting them. Skipping the need to select each and every bones or moving parts one by one giving even more speed to the Animator.Or All bones and IK in the object . Anyways thanks for you tools there Amazing

Samus

Ryan Roye
12-06-2013, 02:57 PM
... but i often come to the same wish every time i use it, and that is : if it could switch from Step curves to Linear and other curves For all objects in your scene without selecting them.

As a stopgap, you should check out this plugin (https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/create-key/) (do not use CreateKey+, it is broken past 9.6). Graph Type comes bundled with CreateKey+ and allows you to do exactly this. With lots of other options to go with it.

Auto Graph Type: Interface that lets you determine what Graph Type does.

Graph Type: Changes the curve determined by the options you set in Auto Graph Type. Assign it to a hotkey for easy usage.

OnlineRender
12-06-2013, 03:30 PM
congrats RH! you are an asset too the community and we would be lost without you...

RebelHill
12-06-2013, 04:19 PM
if it could switch from Step curves to Linear and other curves For all objects in your scene without selecting them.

It works on multiselections, you dont need to select each item one by one...

Or are you talking about being able to do it for all items in a scene without doing any selection at all?

chikega
12-06-2013, 11:02 PM
My concern is hands - i want to be able to drive tendons and skin in a realistic manner. I also want to be able to animate muscle deformations in a realistic way, semi-automated...

Kind Regards
Dave

You may want to check out this hand animation done in Lightwave. This is by no means automatic and takes some more in-depth understanding of driving displacement maps with bones.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYJRVUDuZvo

optikanet
12-07-2013, 05:40 AM
Yep that looks like what I want!!! It's the tendons sliding under the skin and the movement of the fleshy parts of the palm that I'd be keen to be able to create, but I don't think my talent extends that far, which is why some degree of automation would be very welcome!!!

Given that the kind of softbody simulations I have been talking about here and on other threads (ie fat, muscle deformations etc) have been commonplace in CGI since at least Shrek 2, I'm surprised that LW seems, from what RebelHill was saying, to have lagged behind in these areas? I haven't been paying much attention to what Newtek was doing because I haven't been able to afford an upgrade in ages, but I thought there would have been some movement in that area (no pun intended...).

Not so?

Kind Regards
Dave

RebelHill
12-07-2013, 06:02 AM
Yep... Chris' stuff is pretty cool, and a LOT of effort to achieve.

And whilst its true that such effects have been commonplace for well over a decade in multi million dollar movies, the same is not true in off the shelf software. There's a few solutions in a few apps (like maya muscle) that do a good job with minimal user effort, but the high quality, high detail stuff that you see done is ALWAYS heavily customised work, whether that be from layering up textures, displacements and other deformer controls in the app to "build" these effects, or through the creation of custom software to do such.

optikanet
12-07-2013, 06:25 AM
So how can that kind of effect be achieved - even in a "dirty" sort of way - in Lightwave? I wondered if you could create morph maps for the muscles or if you could build geometry for them (with morph maps) and have them deform the skin using cloth-simulation or something?

And I wondered if there was a way of driving this with an IK rig or similar?

Any thoughts?

Kind Regards
Dave

RebelHill
12-07-2013, 07:12 AM
All sorts.

First off, dont worry too much about IKFK distinctions, those mainly have to do with how you setup controls for posing a character, its once a pose is "in" that the mesh deformation is evaulated, however that pose is created. As for such, you can use bones that push bits of mesh about (or nulls, ala sock monkey), you can use morfs to reshape the mesh as specifically modelled, for details like the tendon poke through, you'll commonly use image maps as mesh displacement, which you "move" around on the surface of the mesh to translate teh shaping they give around, and control their amplification to ramp their effect up and down. For some areas you may only need one trick, for others a combination (and when combining the application order of each displacement becomes important).

As for how you "drive" all these effects... Well, you can just set up a whole bunch of controllers to manually control them (lots of animation legwork). More commonly you'll get data from the control/pose rig to determine how a given bit is posed and use that as input for controlling the displacement effects. Now you come back to topics concerning the design and operation of the animation rig itself... does it provide the right "hooks" to get data from, are there poses where those hooks can give conflicting data, etc, etc.

For example, high freedom, 3d joints, such as the shoulder. Given a "regular" sort of setup, its possible to get the same POSE at the shoulder from different combinations of rotational co-ordinates... and its these co-ords that you want to use to drive your morf, disp, whatever... So you have to work in a system that always spits out the same co-ord vals for a given pose (pose space referencing) in order to get a reliable hook that you can use predictably.

Have a look through the ol RHR series there, obviously, most of it is good to know so as you understand the process as a whole, but if you're wanting to look for starters at tools and workflows which concern getting deformation control over your meshes, have a peek at.. Tools>vids 21+ and Projects>Deform Rigging/Advanced Deforms.

paulhart
12-07-2013, 06:48 PM
I have used RHLite, then RHiggit, now on to RHiggit2. However, despite downloading the Beta V2, I am not sure of setting up the menu tree. Do I keep any of the "old stuff," how do I get all of the menu items in the correct place to be most useful??? Thank you.
Paul

Chris Jones
12-08-2013, 04:56 AM
You may want to check out this hand animation done in Lightwave. This is by no means automatic and takes some more in-depth understanding of driving displacement maps with bones.
Actually the only displacement map there is a static one; the sliding effect comes from effectors. It does take some fiddling to get them to deform acceptably though.

(c:

Kryslin
12-08-2013, 12:44 PM
Paul:

I set up a tab for Rhiggit2 Beta - I then added Rhiggit2, Animation Toolbox to it.

I also made sure that other useful items were available on the same tab - the object replace/rename functions from the object tab, the Genoma ItemShape/Motion/Renamer scripts, and a couple of items I scripted to help with mass renaming and mass recording of pivot rotations, and Mike Green's Remove Recorded Pivot Rotation script. (You can get the object replace branch from the objects tab by exporting it, and importing it on you new tab).

When testing RH2B, I rarely leave that one tab.

RH: You were right, I'm down to 25 minutes for a simple biped. :) I'll be loading up my challenge (4 arms, 2 legs, tail, 2 spines, long hair controls, ear controls, etc...) mesh here during the week, and see how RH2B fares...

Samus
12-09-2013, 03:05 AM
It works on multiselections, you dont need to select each item one by one...

Or are you talking about being able to do it for all items in a scene without doing any selection at all?

Yes! Without having to select each and every object bones ect... a Global swich Curves. For exemple you have two or more characters interacting, instead of having to select all bones or Ik of one object, then the other is often a long process specialy with LW graph editor that is so Slow compared to Maya (dont get me wrong animating in Lightwave and Maya is quite on Par for me, process is the same. and each have theire highs and lows as far as what i know from each. )

Thanks

- - - Updated - - -


As a stopgap, you should check out this plugin (https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/entry/create-key/) (do not use CreateKey+, it is broken past 9.6). Graph Type comes bundled with CreateKey+ and allows you to do exactly this. With lots of other options to go with it.

Auto Graph Type: Interface that lets you determine what Graph Type does.

Graph Type: Changes the curve determined by the options you set in Auto Graph Type. Assign it to a hotkey for easy usage.


Thank's Chazriker ill sure Check it out !!

RebelHill
12-09-2013, 07:19 AM
Yeah... I can throw in an "all" button... I'll pop it on the list.

Samus
12-09-2013, 09:57 AM
Yeah... I can throw in an "all" button... I'll pop it on the list.


Great Thanks !!
Rhiggit Look's great gotta have time to test it...already Checked the T-REX ....Niiice!

optikanet
12-18-2013, 12:15 PM
I can't seem to add the plugins but I can't figure out why.

In Modeller I go to "Add Plugins", and select the files from the Rhiggit2 directory. This achieves the same thing that "Scan Directory" does and Modeller finds "six plugins in 4 files". From there if I press "Add Plugins" it takes me back to the Rhiggit2 directory which I've already done, whereas clicking "done" closes the dialogue box, but the plugins themselves do not appear in the list of plugins, nor do they seem to have been added anywhere.

I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong? I've had the Rhiggit2 beta for weeks yet, but I haven't managed to load it?

Can you help?

Kind Regards
Dave

optikanet
12-18-2013, 01:42 PM
Yep, they're layout plugins, not modeler.

Best.


Okay... I missed that!!! Any chance of making it run in Modeller as well to create skelegons? This is probably a huge ask and I simply don't understand the magnitude of the task I'm suggesting, but in my ignorance I pose it as a question...???

Kind Regards
Dave

allabulle
12-19-2013, 01:20 AM
OK, I'm in. Waiting for the e-mail thingie. :)

wyattharris
12-19-2013, 03:06 PM
Whoa, I've obviously been under a rock for a month. Let me check this out a bit closer.

RebelHill
12-21-2013, 05:01 AM
Any chance of making it run in Modeller as well to create skelegons?

Sadly, I think not. There's very little to be gained by having any part happen or available in modeler. Rigging tools and workflows are best kept, as much as possible, in layout.

chikega
12-21-2013, 06:27 PM
Purchased ... my X-mas present to myself. :D

khan973
12-23-2013, 03:06 AM
Purchased too :)
Always a big fan of RH's products