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meshpig
11-22-2013, 07:24 AM
The things you notice and what they mean. I hear the pronounced "T" at the end of so many adjectives on U.S. TV... so like this appears not to be a typo? :)


118339

cagey5
11-22-2013, 02:22 PM
The other one I hear a lot is 'height' pronounced as though it has a th at the end rather than a ht. So heigth rather than height.

UnCommonGrafx
11-22-2013, 02:30 PM
I'm gonna say, Lino is Italian and thus the case. I could be wrong, but I've noticed a few of those things that point to second-language use.

I give a break to those I know are working with such 'handicaps'. Even many who are not.

Best to go through the whole program to assist with finding these anomalies, poor spellings and inconsistencies. There are many. Lots of "other" language users have devved the program.

MarcusM
11-22-2013, 03:00 PM
I am curious how many and what other languages usually know english native speaking persons ;p śćżźˇęąłń ;]

cagey5
11-22-2013, 03:10 PM
For my part I wasn't speaking about people with English as a second language.

Silkrooster
11-22-2013, 11:06 PM
Here in the United States, its hard to get to technical with how words are pronounced. As each State has it own dialog or I should say accent. Some words are enunciated different and others are just replaced with a different word all together. Though majority of the words are identical. That's not counting the differences between the US and the UK.

meshpig
11-23-2013, 10:48 PM
The other one I hear a lot is 'height' pronounced as though it has a th at the end rather than a ht. So heigth rather than height.

Haven't heard that one but in your neck of the woods the hard "G" at the end of say "Singing" is a much older equivalent coming i believe from old english and resistance to the original Norman occupation. Silent consonants etc. Here we have the K at the end of everything, "everythink"; a fav of our current PM but it's like language speaks for itself as a subtext of what passes in the media perspective. Dominance and submission are played out on a more or less microscopic scale :)

As for ESL, everyonek knows there's nothing like your mother tongue.

meshpig
11-24-2013, 02:08 AM
... some of my favourites on US TV though are: HusBEND (husband). DefenDANT ( defendant). VicTUM (victim) and statements like; "he tautologically repeated himself over and over..." and " he used the vernacular of ordinary people".

Doesn't make me a snob it's just that most of what you read and hear is %99 crap.

meshpig
11-24-2013, 04:58 AM
Here in the United States, its hard to get to technical with how words are pronounced. As each State has it own dialog or I should say accent. Some words are enunciated different and others are just replaced with a different word all together. Though majority of the words are identical. That's not counting the differences between the US and the UK.

In the early part of the last century the old world looked to America for some logical approach to spoken "English" as it were. I think everyone cam appreciate the logic of Charles Sanders Peirce (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Sanders_Peirce) but apart from the genius of computers, Language otherwise seems to dictate it's own terms.

djwaterman
11-24-2013, 05:07 AM
Generally speaking though, Americans speak the best and clearest version of English, I also prefer American spelling. But that was a spelling mistake on the Genoma panel.

meshpig
11-24-2013, 05:14 AM
... you know, the origin of Language is Language. Not some spooky sci-fi "dawn of man " space odyssey :)

ianr
11-24-2013, 07:29 AM
ENGLISH is a breathing constantly modded Language, but the way to spell is always a problem

Christ, I have to write in two drafts in 2 dictionaries inside the industry standard Final Draft,

one for me & one for L.A.

My late Aunt( M.A.HONS English) Once sage-like said to me...

'Ian, please remember English is a brightly

embelished, mongrel language and if doesn't

allow flexiblity to take in new things.It could

end up a dead langauge like Latin & we don't

that to happen ,do we?'


Francis sang 'You said Tomarto, I say Tomater,
let's call the whole thing off!'

She also said that the Americans where a tiny-
weeny bit jealous that they hadn't invented it!

BeeVee
11-25-2013, 02:19 AM
I listened to a very interesting interview with David Crystal a noted expert on language and the only reaon we use 'th' instead of the single letter 'Thorn' (■) that we used when we had viking invaders, was because of the French invaders in the 11th century. The irony is that the French can't say the letters 'th' - for them it's either a 't' sound like Thierry, or 'ze'.

B

JohnMarchant
11-25-2013, 07:53 AM
To right BeeVee, my French wife cannot pronounce TH, it always comes out as ZE. If she speaks English slowly she can sometimes do it but if she is speaking fast she usually forgets. She is a freelance Translator and Interpreter.

If you look at the differences between French French and Canadian French its quite allot, the French always say Canadian French speakers speak old world French. All languages move on and evolve. My pet hate is when im only given the choice of US English, especially when installing or using software. Being told my way of spelling is wrong when we invented the f**king language really irks.

Sorry for that :):)

BeeVee
11-25-2013, 08:14 AM
And even we (modern Britons) only had a little to do with it. It was Romans, Jutes, Saxons, Norse, Celts, Indians and all manner of other folk that gave us what we speak today. Even American English is old-fashioned, with its faucet and fall (both being old English words).

B

JohnMarchant
11-25-2013, 09:23 AM
Yes BeeVee, that's why all languages evolve and have to evolve and i for one am happy that they do. English is a very expressive language especially for music and poetry. Many languages especially those derived from Latin are quiet limited. The amount of words to choose from in French for instance is about half what you have in the English English language. My partner is forever asking me about an English word or saying that has no French equivalent, the French recently have been inventing words for things that previously they did not have as we have done in the past. How many French people say Computer instead of Ordinateur or indeed the classic one Walkman (A Brand Name) as opposed to Baladeur.

SBowie
11-25-2013, 09:45 AM
English is an extremely 'sticky' language, capturing new and foreign words, spelling, pronunciation, and grammar daily (often mangling these in the process). In an age of tweets and viral propagation, adoption can occur almost overnight.

This 'stickiness' also often manifests as longevity. Archaic forms cling vigorously to life in remote gene pools, then pop suddenly back into the vernacular. How aggravating when some seemingly incorrect, awkward expression can brandish an ancient and venerable provenance, and thus a claim to legitimacy arguably as valid as some more comfortable upstart. How badly I've wanted to drive a stake through the heart of a word, phrase, or some unorthodox pronunciation, only to be left gasping ineffectually by history.

Ironically the undeniable success of English devolves from these very things, so it is probably best to try to avoid rigidity (I still prefer "honour", though I've all but conceded on "color"). :)

JohnMarchant
11-25-2013, 10:20 AM
English is an extremely 'sticky' language, capturing new and foreign words, spelling, pronunciation, and grammar daily (often mangling these in the process). In an age of tweets and viral propagation, adoption can occur almost overnight.

This 'stickiness' also often manifests as longevity. Archaic forms cling vigorously to life in remote gene pools, then pop suddenly back into the vernacular. How aggravating when some seemingly incorrect, awkward expression can brandish an ancient and venerable provenance, and thus a claim to legitimacy arguably as valid as some more comfortable upstart. How badly I've wanted to drive a stake through the heart of a word, phrase, or some unorthodox pronunciation, only to be left gasping ineffectually by history.

Ironically the undeniable success of English devolves from these very things, so it is probably best to try to avoid rigidity (I still prefer "honour", though I've all but conceded on "color"). :)

Agreed, i still marvel at the amount of English sign's and advertisements i see in non English speaking countries. Most people who meet who do not have a common language will try and default to English. However the problem for some is that it is called English. Even in the USA, the most words spoken are English English as opposed to American English, the differences are the spelling in most cases, the way the word is said changes from place to place in the USA the same as in the UK. If you heard a Geordie or Glaswegian speaking English you could be forgiven for thinking its a foreign language.

Agreed though Honour sounds and looks far better than Honor.

Interested to read that there are over 1,000,000 words spoken in the English language, this is all English from all countries. The 1,000,000 word was Web 2.0

BeeVee
11-25-2013, 10:42 AM
How about Nuage Informatique (the cloud), courriel (email), pourriel, (spam) and even platiniste for DJ. All accepted translations courtesy of the Academie Franšaise - the world's only government body for *restricting* the growth of language. Those gauls are crazy...

B
Try this for a bit of fun: http://youtu.be/rexKqvgPVuA

JohnMarchant
11-25-2013, 11:03 AM
How about Nuage Informatique (the cloud), courriel (email), pourriel, (spam) and even platiniste for DJ. All accepted translations courtesy of the Academie Franšaise - the world's only government body for *restricting* the growth of language. Those gauls are crazy...

B
Try this for a bit of fun: http://youtu.be/rexKqvgPVuA

Yes they are and so says my wife, The Gaul.

SBowie
11-25-2013, 11:12 AM
Try this for a bit of fun: http://youtu.be/rexKqvgPVuAOh dear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le_uNGdpa4c

alexos
11-25-2013, 11:15 AM
How about Nuage Informatique (the cloud), courriel (email), pourriel, (spam) and even platiniste for DJ. All accepted translations courtesy of the Academie Franšaise - the world's only government body for *restricting* the growth of language.

Given spam's very precise origin, that "pourriel" seems an interpretation rather than a translation. It crosses the line between the (opinable, but still) somewhat noble practice of wanting to preserve one's language against the cultural massification and all that rot, and plain "everyone says that so we're going to come up with something different" snobbery. Does it even work, I wonder?

ADP.

PabloMack
11-25-2013, 03:10 PM
In the USA we have a lot of Hispanic influence from Latin America. They don't have an sh sound so it ends up as ch. Tex-Mex often puts a 't' sound on an ending 'd'. But there is a lot of ingnorance among every day English speakers. Some that bothers me are "expecially", calling ground-beef "hamburger" (which is a kind of sandwich, not a meat), saying "incidence" (the frequency of an event) when they mean "incident" (a single event) presumably because "incidents" (plural) sounds almost the same as the former. Then there are expressions that are backwards like "I could care less" which is a corruption of "I couldn't care less". Spanish speaking people of Latin American extraction often crack me up because their mis-understandings of English expressions get mis-understood and these misunderstandings are often spread more by native Spanish speakers who mis-understand them than from native English speakers who do understand them. An example is "Old Wive's Tale" which is commonly misunderstood as "Old Wise Tale" by Latin American Spanish speakers. The meaning is completely lost. Furthermore, I have witnessed Spanish speaking people agree that a particular "Old Wive's Tale" (something we deem as a foolish belief) as being wise!

meshpig
11-26-2013, 12:27 AM
Oh dear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le_uNGdpa4c

You'd sort of expect ancient dialects to show through in places which have them close enough. What intrigues me is how Language very quickly modifies itself on one level whilst simultaneously hanging onto things which are thousands of years old. It's not that humans "mastered" language it's more like it colonised us and we're still adapting to it, speech being just one use of language amongst many, writing another. We're a Nation of mono syllabic morons anyway...

PabloMack
11-26-2013, 09:21 AM
Oh dear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le_uNGdpa4c

Yeah. We have Jerry Springer and Maury Povich. These programs restore my lack of faith in humanity.

jeric_synergy
11-26-2013, 11:04 AM
In defense of "I could care less": to me, the phrase is just a riff on "I couldn't care less", in that it is a truncated version of:

"I could care less, but it would take some effort."

Chuck
11-26-2013, 04:17 PM
She also said that the Americans where a tiny-
weeny bit jealous that they hadn't invented it!

It would be correct that geographically the language originated in England. However, it also seems to me that one could think about the "who" in these terms: the peoples who who came together and subsequently "invented" the language also in part later dispersed to a number of lands around the world with that language. That really does not disinherit any of them with regard to the invention and subsequent further evolution of the language, any more than those still located at the geographical origin. So no reason for us Americans to be jealous that we didn't invent it. ;)

meshpig
11-28-2013, 01:14 AM
... So no reason for us Americans to be jealous that we didn't invent it. ;)

There again certain grammatical nuances are missed in translation to US E. It's a turn of phrase where "lay claim to" would probably do; as in there's an awful lot of aspirational speak in the US aiming at a territorial "upper class" idiom and as many other forms opposing it. Then there's spell check... the closest thing to the Queen's English the US will ever have :)

MarcusM
11-28-2013, 01:29 AM
Yeah. We have Jerry Springer and Maury Povich. These programs restore my lack of faith in humanity.

My opinion is the same after wathing Jerry Springer. But singing anthem after all... it's sad.

meshpig
11-28-2013, 04:00 AM
Yeah. We have Jerry Springer and Maury Povich. These programs restore my lack of faith in humanity.

They're only there for 2 bit if not questionable commercial reasons. So you hunger for your dumb little interface and thus you might become a good dumb little citizen too... lie back and think of England Sir!

JonW
11-28-2013, 04:23 AM
I have spoken to the ABC (Aust) about this: .........exporting overseas!

meshpig
11-28-2013, 05:21 AM
... Yay hate radio. Abbott is having a go at "freedom of speech" legislation to make it easier on the Goons when they want to spray diarrhoea on the proverbial dunny.