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View Full Version : Anything similar to Gridify for us 'wavers?



raw-m
10-23-2013, 10:27 AM
https://vimeo.com/46289032

Didn't go for the Studio version of CD4 as really like LWs particle stuff (and the cost!!). However, this is really nice and got a job that would benefit from something similar. Anything for LW along these lines, especially for creating random square geometry for splines that I could attach an Emitter to?

nickdigital
10-23-2013, 10:47 AM
Does this thread help?
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?137840-Amazing-mograph-effect-Bryan-Phillips-and-DPKit

I admit I didn't watch the whole tutorial. The results look very impressive. Just from casual observation it doesn't look like it's a one-click preset setup. There looked to be a lot of manual work to get this setup done.

raw-m
10-23-2013, 10:57 AM
Hi ND, very familiar with Bryphi's youTube channel, very clever and useful stuff.

C4D is very good the the random stuff! Came up with the idea of perhaps using something like Ivy Generator and quantising the points(?) It doesn't work on my mac anymore so left scratching my head again!

nickdigital
10-23-2013, 11:01 AM
Yeah, the C4D guys came out to demo their software. It was really easy to set scenes up and change settings on the fly. The whole time I was thinking "I could do this in LW but C4D would run circles around LW in terms of flexibility and on-the fly changes."

They had NPR rendering presets that was just a drag and drop of settings and adjusting of sliders. LW kinda gets you there if you save out surface presets, but the C4D setup was definitely more user friendly.

raw-m
10-23-2013, 11:18 AM
Hear ya' (and quantise points was a rubbish idea!) :D

jeric_synergy
08-30-2014, 01:17 PM
:bump: (found this when searching for a different 'grid' thingy...)
This type of thing is another argument for Unification, no? :cry:

I have a question: we have the ability to create geometry within Layout (Modeling Tools prove that), so we can generate Points (and Particles, if they are different data-wise), so, theoretically it would be possible to emulate SOME of the functionality of the c4d 'Griddify' preset, right?

OR, could LW's Particles, with their ability to respawn via collision, be pressed into service here? Establish a 3d grid of particles and as they are collided with they emit 2ndary particles?

Other approaches?

prometheus
08-31-2014, 01:58 PM
Jeric_synergy, I donīt think you could approach it the same way as in cinema4d, the tools in there seem to have control over individual particle path/trajectory, which in lightwave is quite difficult to handle..even for a single particle, and the particle control for motion is the velocity motion path, try make one single particle shout out and vibrate in a spiral path, might work with a ripple texture in the velocity channel or add additional wind dynamics ..but those would choke lightwave if you have to many particles, besides I donīt think it is possible to add a particle spiral oscillating and transfer the exact same amount and motion on to a whole group of a particles, exactly as it can be done in cinema4d.

I Dontīt understand you about the 3d grid of particles and emitt secondary particles, it will not do anything to get the type of motion as seen in gridify, lw particles can be spawned upon collision and start itīs birth from a grid or whatever geometry has as edges, and for instance set it to
object line, but it will only start itīs birth from that and seemingly appear like it is following geometry edges, when it in fact needs the geometry as a velocity/path guide which is more what happens in cinema since it is actual particle trajectory and not just birth emission.
it is impressive and very flexible, and how you after the setup just can drag and drop cloning stuff or others to attach to the particles..very smooth and flexible.

I donīt think unification is a factor that is needed, what is needed is for lightwave to have a particles system that can per particle attribute read any geometry and/or vector, math noise type and convert it to a velocity path per particle and also uniformly and equally over individual particles within the whole particle emitter group.

prometheus
08-31-2014, 02:07 PM
Bryphi stuff, I donīt recall him using/showing that with particles? only points and part move stuff?

jeric_synergy
08-31-2014, 03:50 PM
My quick look at c4d Griddify didn't encompass its flexibility, but what I meant was:

While a LW USER doesn't have easy control over a particle's path, the PROGRAM certainly does, it has precise control, otherwise we wouldn't be able to repeat a particle effect, and the randomness we have is psuedo-random, it's perfectly repeatable. So, making particles move in a grid matrix should be perfectly theoretically possible, if there's enough exposure of the plumbing in the SDK for a plugin to get a handle on things.

IDRecall exactly, but I believe there are native individual particle path editing tools, that would drive one mad if one had to use them much. So, for this conversation, that tells me that the program at some level has precise control.

So, totally plugin takeover of the interface, then a bake, is the kind of thing I wonder if it's possible now. Hopefully in the near-ish future the answer would be a resounding "Sure!", but of course someone will still have to write it.

prometheus
08-31-2014, 05:35 PM
My quick look at c4d Griddify didn't encompass its flexibility, but what I meant was:

While a LW USER doesn't have easy control over a particle's path, the PROGRAM certainly does, it has precise control, otherwise we wouldn't be able to repeat a particle effect, and the randomness we have is psuedo-random, it's perfectly repeatable. So, making particles move in a grid matrix should be perfectly theoretically possible, if there's enough exposure of the plumbing in the SDK for a plugin to get a handle on things.

IDRecall exactly, but I believe there are native individual particle path editing tools, that would drive one mad if one had to use them much. So, for this conversation, that tells me that the program at some level has precise control.

So, totally plugin takeover of the interface, then a bake, is the kind of thing I wonder if it's possible now. Hopefully in the near-ish future the answer would be a resounding "Sure!", but of course someone will still have to write it.

well ...theoreticly possible and what it current has, doesnīt add up in your thoughts...at least I donīt get what you refer to?
sounds like you are saying the program has the control..then you say it is theoretically possible?..sounds a bit vague, and perfectly repeatable donīt give any answer to what that really means?
perfectly repeatable for what and per particle control, the fact that we have repeatable particle effects, I donīt know what you mean exactly with that?
at least I donīt think we can do a workaround for this stuff really, I hope someone can prove me wrong on that though.

getting such sharp angle particle devietion and going in different directions applied to each individual particle, and also respecting an attractor force...I just donīt see how you can accomplish that today in lightwave, but..as william vaughan mentions, we should be problem solvers..and thus of us with it in the backbone, might actually manage a workaround to get that effect, but I donīt want to draw a illusion blindfold over my eyes either and say everything is possible.
try draw a simple spline or line segments and save it as a path, well you can get an emitter to follow that, you can get a null to follow that, but getting each individual particle or the whole group to flow along a premade path or grid(not birthspawning) actually taking on
itīs path or geometry as a trajectory...just can not see that working.

making particles in an emitter vibrate/oscillating isnīt that easy, I donīt see any way to do it directly in dynamicfx particle properties, itīs not the same as using vibrate or trying textures on the velocity channel, that will only yield some fractal motion outwards, but the particles will not oscillate in a per particle attribute, for that you would have to use a dynamic wind set to directional and use itīs vectors channels and add ripple texture for instance, or use vortex or turbulence wind, but as mentioned ..it will be very slow, in cinema that doesnīt seem to be the approach on how they tackle it.
sure editing individual particle with edit path, puh..no thanks.

For me it looked quite flexible, just add a tracker ..and boom you got a trail, going add second particle emitter, parent it to the first, change particle emitter to child emitter, turn off parent motion..way more complex to set up.
I suggested some years ago a multi emitter, you should just be able to check some boxes directly within that emitter propertie which would add a trail child emitter, with default parent motion set to 0, a more enhanced flexible
way of working with multi emitter, even more add boxes for more underlying emitters.
Boom drag and drop a geometry under the emitter child tree ..and there you have it, linked geometry on the particles, way easier than fx linking or instancing, some keywords are drag and drop, in to a tree view/network.

Tell one particle to go right 1m, then left 1m..then up 1m..then down 1m..then repeat, apply that expression on all particles, would be nice if someone can do a workaround on that.