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View Full Version : Particles w/o HVs? How?!!!



Paul Peterson
11-14-2003, 05:07 PM
I'm using LW 7.5 that comes with VT[3]. I'm trying to have sparks fly off the back of some flying text and NOT use HyperVoxels (even sprites is taking too long with my scene). I've searched all the forums and found no one answers how to simply make particle render out without resorting to HVs.

I quote from page 17.6 of the LW 7 Manual:
"You can achieve many effects, like fireworks and sparks, by using
PolygonEmitters alone (i.e., without HyperVoxels). You can save
significant rendering time compared to HVEmitters, which require
HyperVoxels for rendering."

Then on page 17.31 (the tutorial), it states, "Open the Surface Editor. The PolygonEmitter object will have a default surface called Partigons. Just change the Color to a deep red.You should see the particles change color."

I guess this isn't true when using an object as the emitter since I don't see any suface called that attached to the object I'm using.

Someone throw me a bone, PLEASE!!:confused:

WizCraker
11-14-2003, 05:37 PM
Think you can find it in the fx_linker to get the object to emit the partigons. But I may be wrong as I dont work with particles that often as I find the current particle system a little confusing.

geoff3dnz
11-14-2003, 06:06 PM
Go to the scene tab, click the 'FX_Browser' button. In the 'Add' dropdown menu, choose PartigonEmitter. These will be seen by the renderer, and can be surfaced just like any other object, i.e. glow etc... You can change the size of them in the Object Properties panel > Edges tab > Particle/Line Thickness setting.
;)

Paul Peterson
11-14-2003, 07:39 PM
geoff3dnz,

Are you saying I can't get visible particles if I add an FX Emitter under the geometry tab of an object - instead I have to create particle emitter and then parent it to the back of my moving text?
I can live with this except it won't conform to the shape of the text. Any other options?

cresshead
11-14-2003, 07:59 PM
hi

i had a look as well seeing as i've hardly used particles as yet in lightwave...it seems that your right in that you can't use a partigon emiter to emiter aprticles from a geometric object...

either you can't or the manual doesn't a very good job of explaing particles!....or i could be rather thick!..it is late here in the u.k!

lightwave's particles seem pretty poor compared to 3dsmax where
you can use all type/manner of particle types from simple point to tetras, boxs, spheres, triangles, facing particles and even instanced geometry..

i'd like to see a seasoned lightwaver give some sort of overview on just what can be done with particles in comparison to other apps such as max....i'm sure that thay are pretty good once you know what they are good at ...hypervoxels seem to be the oly way for your project so far...


sorry i couldn't help you out here!

steve g

cresshead
11-14-2003, 08:01 PM
okay just been reading this...

http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/animation/blood-cells/index.html


so, forget the partigon emiter and make your self a "polygon" in modeler and then use the fx linker so you use the poly as the particles..then they'll emmit from your logo...

just the same as in the tutorial they use a blood cells....you can then surface it and use glow etc...

good luck n let me know it it works!....i'm off for some Zzzzz's



steve g:p

geoff3dnz
11-14-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Paul Peterson
geoff3dnz,

Are you saying I can't get visible particles if I add an FX Emitter under the geometry tab of an object - instead I have to create particle emitter and then parent it to the back of my moving text?
I can live with this except it won't conform to the shape of the text. Any other options? Sorry, I didn't read the original post properly :o And just thought you wanted a partigon emitter - didn't realise the object was the emiter... In that case I think you have to use fxlinker like the other posters have said. Oops!

Dodgy
11-16-2003, 04:33 PM
If you want to emit 1 point particles from an object's polys/points use the parent emitter trick...

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13436&highlight=parent+emitter

cresshead
11-16-2003, 05:00 PM
RE:
Ah the parent emitter trick

Create an emitter in the object. Make it emit the same number of particles as polys in a frame and set the max number of particles to this too (so for a 500 poly object, set these numbers to 500 and 500) . Set their lifetime to the length of the scene. This will give you particles at the centre of each poly for the length of the scene.

Add a partigon emitter and parent it to your object. Use 'Parent emitter' in the shape drop down, and set up your particles as you would normally (you might want to set up the rate as low as posible!).. Ta-da!



reply.....


can you or someone else explain CLEARLY what object, what dialog boxes and what dropdown lable [correct lable too] and on what tab....so that we can actually do this!....[frustrated!!!!]

whilst this gets me closer to achieving the goal there's not enough consise information contained here to do it without having to second guess what n where...

you'd have thought that by version 7 that this would be a no brainer of a task!...maybe it's me but this seem too long winded
for such a often used requirment in lightwave.

steve g

cresshead
11-16-2003, 05:35 PM
okay i have it sort of working..but would like to know how to really nail it.

created a ball

under geometry added a custom object called fx emmiter
double click the fx emmiter to get the properties up....

under the generator tab
birth rate 288
generate be frame
nozzle object vertices
life 288

under the motion tab
explodsion set to 2.0

close the properties of this now..

in layout add under the scene tab...
dynamics heading
fx browser click it to bring up the dialog box
add partigon emmiter

under the items tab in layout press the motion button
or m key
in the motion dialog box select the ball as the parent item.

pres p for properties of the partigon emmiter
this launches the dialog box for the partigon emitter

under the generator tab
birth rate 288
generate be frame
nozzle- parent emmitter
life 288

under the motion tab
explodsion set to 2.0


that's as far as i have got so far...it doesn't emit 288 particles
from that ball as it should so far...so what's going wrong?

also i'd like to emit 288 per 10 frames but add some randomnss to it etc...

look forward to replies!

steve g




:rolleyes:

geoff3dnz
11-16-2003, 05:47 PM
"Add a partigon emitter and parent it to your object. Use 'Parent emitter' in the shape drop down, and set up your particles as you would normally (you might want to set up the rate as low as posible!).. "

I read this part to mean you configure the partigonemitter to however you want, not the 288 birth rate etc, you used in your example - so I'd do all the first part you've done (fxemitter for the object, 288 birthrate & max no. particles) but then it's the partigonemitter that you control yourself - the only thing to do is set it's nozzle type to 'parent emitter' and parent it to the object - haven't tried it myself though...

geoff3dnz
11-16-2003, 05:55 PM
OK - just tested it

Set the nozzle type of the FXEmitter (in your object) to 'object normals' or 'object vertices'.

Other than that, you should be good to go.

*** EDIT: I can send you a scene if you want...

cresshead
11-16-2003, 05:55 PM
let's hope that lw 8 has a "use partigons" as a radio button on the emmiter you can add to an object and stop all this jumping thru hoops rubbish!....all this just confuses the issue of particles to me..and you have 2 emmiters in your scene one that still calculates but doesn't render and one that doees but can't be used on it's own...what a waste of computing power!

i hope this came up in the newtek discussions of improving workflow for lw8

i think that the tutorial for the blood cells is a better otion as you can skip all this partigon emitter rubbish... its's way too limited as i understand it right now and wouldn't use it for anything other than VERY simple fx...i'd be better off with a polygon model.

stee g

geoff3dnz
11-16-2003, 06:06 PM
Unless I'm doing something wrong, I can't seem to move or rotate the main object without the fxemitter particles flying off the object...

cresshead
11-16-2003, 06:20 PM
just tried it with a poly particle created in modeler and using the fx linker and it's much simpler to set up n use!

i reccomend this way rather than the other way!

and it'l render fast...just make a simple poly object with double sided surface...or a small box.

steve g

Dodgy
11-17-2003, 03:56 AM
I didn't want to lead you by the hand now did I? ;)

Steve, this way is better because you don't have to save out two versions of your scene, one with and one without linked polys. It updates straight away.

Sure you can use a polygon model, but then you have to use linker, and this is for use in a very specific instance. Besides you can always switch it out for a poly object with linker.

To make the distribution a bit more uneven, use a texture in the partigon emitter>PFXemitter>Generator>Birth rate and move it about/rotate it during the scene. This emits particles where the texture is Value of 1. Set the texture blending mode to alpha.

If your particles are flying off, try turning off PFXemitter>etc>parent motion. This means 'inherit the parent's motion and add the particle's motion'.

Else try pressing FXstart, so LW will be forced to read the object's position information.

cresshead
11-17-2003, 05:25 AM
i surpose i'm spoilt a bit with being brought up on max's particle systems and i'd expect other apps particles to be a simple and logical to use as max rather than a single particle system being able to run itself we seem to have to link things together to get them to work as we may want in te case of partigon systems or instanced geometry [which lightwave can't do] also in max you can use say a selection of 5 objects with their own animation and these can be used as instanced geometry and the list will be used to emit different particles types [object1 object 2 etc] one after another...

is there any 3rd party pro particle systems available for lightwave that can use instanced geometry and a unified interface?

steve g

Dodgy
11-17-2003, 08:16 AM
For instanced geometry, go to www.happy-digital.com and look at HDinstance. Well worth the cash. Particle system wise, you might be best off waiting for 8 as I think the PS is getting a revamp along with soft and hard bodies....

Otherwise there are quite few 3rd party particle generators, napalm is probably the most versatile, but you do pay for it...

Do a search on flay.com for particles to see a list of them.

SplineGod
11-18-2003, 12:20 AM
What I do for quick n dirty particles is either use a particle object and throw some displacement thru it or use partigons.
Pump up the luminosity and apply glow and you can do some fairly decent stuff that renders fast.
You can also sometimes fake it by using an object and apply something like the crust procedural in the transparency channel.