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digitalimagery
10-17-2013, 03:14 PM
I'm working on a logo element which is a fleur de li. I want to extrude the outline and then carve into it some concave areas and then round them out. I tried rounding out what I'll use to boolean first, but as suspected the tips of these shapes over lapped when rounded.

I then tried just doing a straight boolean subtract on the model (thinking I could perhaps round the negative space once extracted) but that crashed LW. Then tired to boolean just one of the shapes by itself (thinking all those points might be choking LW) and that crahed too.

I imported the .eps with the super fine setting (I intend to be real close to this model during the animation) if that tips anyone off to a potential problem.

I've attached a screen grab of the basic setup.

Thanks for any help
DI

JoePoe
10-17-2013, 03:53 PM
Perhaps Multishift could do it. But there are a LOT of points defining the shape.... could get very tedious.

Personally, I would do the whole thing in SubD. You can reduce the overall poly count to just a couple hundred. THEN Multishift would make quick work of it.

digitalimagery
10-17-2013, 03:57 PM
Thanks JoePoe I'll try that. Do I just hit the tab key to convert and then do the round or do I have to model it in sub Ds? Have never modeled anything like a face so I'm not familiar with Sub D modeling.

Thank you for responding.
DI


Perhaps Multishift could do it. But there are a LOT of points defining the shape.... could get very tedious.

Personally, I would to the whole thing in SubD. You can reduce the overall poly count to just a couple hundred. THEN Multishift would make quick work of it.

UnCommonGrafx
10-17-2013, 03:59 PM
I think LW won't work with this object well: over 256 points a poly, or so it looks.

I would start by reducing the points; lesser points will work better with lw's Boolean tools.

I would even consider doing it with splines. With splines, you could have some interesting control. But if you aren't comfortable with splines, this might take a bit longer than you want.
Emulating the ZB way, one could start with a low poly design, putting in your details and raising your resolution of the object through subdividing (shift-D, iirc).

Oh, I would do most of this on a flat plane, particularly now that lw has a built-in thicken tool. After the detail was in, I would thicken and mirror, if needed, to get a back.

digitalimagery
10-17-2013, 04:02 PM
I'm kind of thinking this might be the case. I'm on ver 10.1 so I don't have the option you mentioned. What about extruding a cross section along a rail? Is that a possibility?

Thanks for responding.

DI


I think LW won't work with this object well: over 256 points a poly, or so it looks.

I would start by reducing the points; lesser points will work better with lw's Boolean tools.

I would even consider doing it with splines. With splines, you could have some interesting control. But if you aren't comfortable with splines, this might take a bit longer than you want.
Emulating the ZB way, one could start with a low poly design, putting in your details and raising your resolution of the object through subdividing (shift-D, iirc).

Oh, I would do most of this on a flat plane, particularly now that lw has a built-in thicken tool. After the detail was in, I would thicken and mirror, if needed, to get a back.

Snosrap
10-17-2013, 04:02 PM
I'd re-model it using SubD's.

digitalimagery
10-17-2013, 04:04 PM
Are there any tuts you guys/gals know of that show the technique for modeling something similar. I've never modeled that way. Most (if not all) my work is logo so everything starts as an eps and gets imported.

Thanks Snosrap.
DI

JoePoe
10-17-2013, 04:29 PM
Hmmmm, well, if you're not used to SubD this would kinda be a trial by fire.

I'll try to think of specific tutes but the Proton vids in the 24 hrs of tutorials secion is always a good place to start.... and, of course, a good ol' fashioned Google search "lightwave subD".

But to answer your question. You can't just hit tab. You have to recreate the shape in all quads/tris. And then use "control loops" to tighten up edges.

Like below....
Your Fleur is even more complex....I would use your eps as a background image as reference for the quads.
Or you could bring it in as "rough", but A) I still think there will be way too many points, and B) They probably wont match up well to create the quad shapes you will need.

digitalimagery
10-17-2013, 04:35 PM
Yes I did do a search and am watching a tut but it's all about modeling a creature head. I have every LW tut I've ever found book marked (including the 24hr crash course from LW).

Looking for something more along the lines of this shape. The carved out part is where I suspect I'll be getting stuck. May have to just save this one for a rainy day and do a boring extrude with a small bevel. Getting tired of this same 'ol same model type for logos and want to expand my skill set with LW modeling.

Thanks.
DI

JoePoe
10-17-2013, 05:01 PM
Yes.....and am watching a tut but it's all about modeling a creature head.

Yeah, you've gotta look for "hard surface" modeling I guess.
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?115591-Intro-to-Hard-Surf-SubD-Modeling-Tutorial

I have no idea if that's any good....but the comments were favorable.
It's a tall order to expect to just jump into SubD. So like you said.... for a rainy day(s). But once you add that in your toolbelt. :thumbsup:

I took a very quick lunge at it with what I posted before. Maybe the wires can help in your exploration. Two tools basically.... bandsaw and multishift.

digitalimagery
10-17-2013, 05:06 PM
Kewl. Based on the speed you did this it's definitely something I need to explore. Thanks!

DI

JoePoe
10-17-2013, 05:42 PM
No problem. :)

Here's the mock-up if you want to play with it.

Also.... Splines was another good suggestion. But it's another technique which takes some practice as well.

:beerchug:

digitalimagery
10-17-2013, 05:47 PM
Thanks JoePoe. I've actually managed to get the boolean to work (probably always was but was taking so long I thought it humg). Cutting one piece at a time was making it work faster. So I've built a model with the boring bevel and am adjusting the points to make it have some level of professionalism.

Thanks for all your help - I can always count on the man from BeanTown.

DI



No problem. :)

Here's the mock-up if you want to play with it.

Also.... Splines was another good suggestion. But it's another technique which takes some practice as well.

:beerchug:

Snosrap
10-17-2013, 08:37 PM
Another nice thing digitalimagery about subD's is that the resolution is adjustable. You stated that you wanted to be "real close" in your animation - with subD's you can add an envelope to the subpatch level and have it dynamically increase as the camera gets closer or just set it real high from the start. With what I see in your screen shot it still may be possible to see facets depending on how "real close" you are talking about.

Surrealist.
10-17-2013, 11:46 PM
Sorry to be so late to the party.

But have a look at the tut in my sig.

117708

117709

digitalimagery
10-18-2013, 08:55 AM
Another nice thing digitalimagery about subD's is that the resolution is adjustable. You stated that you wanted to be "real close" in your animation - with subD's you can add an envelope to the subpatch level and have it dynamically increase as the camera gets closer or just set it real high from the start. With what I see in your screen shot it still may be possible to see facets depending on how "real close" you are talking about.

That's very cool, I get smarter everyday. But seriously, thanks for the input. A real motivator to get subD's under my belt. I don't think time will allow me to learn it and still meet the deadline but Surrealist left a tut which I'll check out and we'll see.
Thanks so much for all your help with this (everyone).

I do a lot of real close camera work on logos (attached a frame from my last animation). I' usually do see facets but they're always animated and that along with DOF hides it for the most part. These are logos for financial advisors (usually small mom & pop shops) so the expectations aren't very high. I on the other hand am after perfection so I try to get somewhere in the middle on this type of work. Broadcast is another animal and this info will prove to be very valuable on that kind of work.

Thank you thank you.
DI

jeric_synergy
10-18-2013, 12:51 PM
I certainly didn't know you can envelope the subpatch level (!). But since it is an integer, won't the model change rather abruptly? Essentially this is an LOD setting, and that has always seemed TO ME to be rife with difficulties-- it's ok in a game, but in an animation?

Surrealist.
10-18-2013, 03:22 PM
It is only stuck at integer for view port display. Rendering is not integer. And there are 3 options. One is pixels per polygon which is automatic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nWPPvt7Ov4

Waves of light
10-19-2013, 04:30 AM
I was going to suggest you check out Richard Culver's subD tuts as a starting point, but the man himself has dropped in.

I too didn't know that about subD geometry. So I presume you could write an expression that changes the subD level based on distance to camera?

Surrealist.
10-19-2013, 09:19 AM
Pixels per polygons is that in effect.

you can also use a gradient and that works on per polygon level as well as far as I recall.

http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?102430-Issues-with-quot-Pixels-per-Polygon-quot-render-SubDiv

Afalk
10-19-2013, 02:49 PM
@ Richard -- I'd forgotten about that tutorial -- very concise and on target.

@ DI -- another fantastic set of tutorials (commercial) are available over at liberty3d. Series is called "Secrets of SubD Modeling in LightWave 11.5 Volume 1"
and is on the LW training vid page just over 1/2 way down. http://www.liberty3d.com/store/training/lightwave/ Picked them up earlier this year and was absolutely delighted with them. Richard's tutorial is an awesome place to start, and these could really be of help based on what you said about your projects.