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Chris Jones
09-28-2013, 08:39 AM
I was looking at this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP3g0a_r1V4), and thought it seemed like something that should be achievable with nodes. Then I was looking at this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnuGmw324yE), but couldn't get it to work.

Here's my own failed attempt - all I want to do is spin a null and have the morphs play out (in real time) according to the angle of rotation. Doable?

117354

(c:

Ryan Roye
09-28-2013, 09:25 AM
One possible solution is to utilize either cycler or boosterlink to chain the morphs together to a control, and animate the desired curved morph action that way. Getting 100% perfect results this way can be somewhat difficult, but at least editing is a visual and interactive process. I prefer Boosterlink in most cases because picking target objects don't involve horribly long dropdown menus.

Rough example scene attached. I used boosterlink in this case... you either have to have "Studio LIVE" enabled or use IKBooster mode for the sphere controller to work interactively (as in, not only update when you scrub keyframes).

117356

tbagger
09-28-2013, 09:27 AM
I was looking at this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP3g0a_r1V4), and thought it seemed like something that should be achievable with nodes. Then I was looking at this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnuGmw324yE), but couldn't get it to work.

Here's my own failed attempt - all I want to do is spin a null and have the morphs play out (in real time) according to the angle of rotation. Doable?

117354

(c:

Make a gradient with all morphs pluged into to color keys, then plug the rotation x, y, or z into the input and spin it. If you want it to update in real time you will have to add a motion modifier to the mesh with the morph. This vid shows it at about 5 min. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X35YVGhcT4

Sensei
09-28-2013, 10:42 AM
Watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnuGmw324yE

probiner
09-28-2013, 01:09 PM
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?135687-Controling-a-Morph-with-a-null
That's just one morph. But I never tried to set it up on a full character.

Cheers

Chris Jones
09-29-2013, 09:28 PM
Hey thanks for the replies.


One possible solution is to utilize either cycler or boosterlink to chain the morphs together to a control, and animate the desired curved morph action that way. Getting 100% perfect results this way can be somewhat difficult, but at least editing is a visual and interactive process. I prefer Boosterlink in most cases because picking target objects don't involve horribly long dropdown menus.

Rough example scene attached. I used boosterlink in this case... you either have to have "Studio LIVE" enabled or use IKBooster mode for the sphere controller to work interactively (as in, not only update when you scrub keyframes).

117356

That does seem to be along the lines of what I'm after, although I wonder whether it's a more elegant solution than the first video I linked to. I'll have to see if I can figure out what you did there, and whether it can be made to work more smoothly.


Make a gradient with all morphs pluged into to color keys, then plug the rotation x, y, or z into the input and spin it. If you want it to update in real time you will have to add a motion modifier to the mesh with the morph. This vid shows it at about 5 min. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X35YVGhcT4

That's what I did in my test above, but couldn't get it to work properly. Could I have missed something?


Watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnuGmw324yE

That's the one I referred to above, which I couldn't get to work. Again, perhaps I missed something.


http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?135687-Controling-a-Morph-with-a-null
That's just one morph. But I never tried to set it up on a full character.

Cheers

Interesting solution, but I really need it to work with more than one morph.

To clarify, I'm trying to redo my eyelid rig which presently uses bones, morphs and weight maps. If I can reduce it to just morphs (preferably without introducing convoluted workflows external to the node editor that are hard to keep track of), it should allow for better control over details.

Thanks again,

(c:

tbagger
09-29-2013, 09:44 PM
Could be related to color space issue if you are on newer version. Have a look at xswampyx youtube channel for solution. Also, like I said... add node item motion motion modifier to the object with the morphs to get it to update in realtime when spinning the nulls. These are only things that will keep it from working properly... unless you are on 11.6 and a new error has been introduced.

Chris Jones
09-29-2013, 11:12 PM
I couldn't even get it to work with 11.0.3, which is the version in Sensei's video. It's not blending one morph into the next... it's like they're all ramping up at the same time or something. I must be missing something really obvious, but I just can't spot it. Also I'm not sure I understand about the motion modifier - do you mean the Nodal Motion modifier in Motion Options?

tbagger
09-29-2013, 11:30 PM
I couldn't even get it to work with 11.0.3, which is the version in Sensei's video. It's not blending one morph into the next... it's like they're all ramping up at the same time or something. I must be missing something really obvious, but I just can't spot it. Also I'm not sure I understand about the motion modifier - do you mean the Nodal Motion modifier in Motion Options?

Yes, motion modifier... you don't have to do anything to it, but it forces the ogl to update when the nulls are transformed. Otherwise you have to scrub the time line to see it update... not the funnest way to try and work. If you are using the time node, or a enveloped scalar it will update without. Only need to do this if you want to use another object as a controller.

I will put a test scene together for you 2morrow when i get up... i am laying in bed typing this on my phone or i would do it now. You are probaly just missing something in the setup.

jameswillmott
09-29-2013, 11:45 PM
That's what I did in my test above, but couldn't get it to work properly. Could I have missed something?


It's possible, I've done the same trick before and it's worked fine. Could be a little easier to set up of course, but it worked well enough...

Sensei
09-30-2013, 12:04 AM
That's the one I referred to above, which I couldn't get to work. Again, perhaps I missed something.

Are you using morphs with relative mode? If you would generate morphs with absolute mode, it wouldn't work straight away with video's like setup..

Show screen-shots of your setup and results from them..


it's like they're all ramping up at the same time or something.

But what input you plugged to gradient? In mine video I am plugging mine Render Info node Time output IIRC..

Chris Jones
09-30-2013, 01:47 AM
Yes, motion modifier... you don't have to do anything to it, but it forces the ogl to update when the nulls are transformed. Otherwise you have to scrub the time line to see it update... not the funnest way to try and work. If you are using the time node, or a enveloped scalar it will update without. Only need to do this if you want to use another object as a controller.

I will put a test scene together for you 2morrow when i get up... i am laying in bed typing this on my phone or i would do it now. You are probaly just missing something in the setup.

Hmm.. tried adding nodal motion but it's not updating for me. Feel free to check the scene in my original post, maybe you can notice something wrong there.


It's possible, I've done the same trick before and it's worked fine. Could be a little easier to set up of course, but it worked well enough...

Would that be the same setup as the attached scene?


Are you using morphs with relative mode? If you would generate morphs with absolute mode, it wouldn't work straight away with video's like setup..

Show screen-shots of your setup and results from them..



But what input you plugged to gradient? In mine video I am plugging mine Render Info node Time output IIRC..

I tried with your Render Info Time output as per your video, but the results are still off. The morphs are relative - if I make them absolute they don't do anything at all.

Here are grabs of the scene in the first post.

What it should be doing:
117376

What it is doing:
117377

Nodes:
117378

tbagger
09-30-2013, 06:14 AM
Hmm.. tried adding nodal motion but it's not updating for me. Feel free to check the scene in my original post, maybe you can notice something wrong there.



Would that be the same setup as the attached scene?



I tried with your Render Info Time output as per your video, but the results are still off. The morphs are relative - if I make them absolute they don't do anything at all.

Here are grabs of the scene in the first post.



Here is test scene, this works for me... I also tried it with channel info like your setup, and it worked as well.

tbagger
09-30-2013, 06:48 AM
I just tested your original scene and it worked fine... My guess is you are dealing with a color space issue. Have a look at xswampyx vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMTV5MbtG6g

Chris Jones
09-30-2013, 07:05 AM
Well consider me flummoxed. Your scene works - it asked for nodeItemMotion plugin, but it's working without it anyway. I swapped your object for mine and reconfigured the nodes so that they're exactly the same as in my scene, and it still works. So I tried the exact same setup on my other scene, and it doesn't work. Furthermore, having the Item Info node present and the control null selected in it makes it update in real time - even though it's not actually connected.

Thanks a lot for putting that scene together, I still don't know what's going on here but you've definitely put me on the scent.

tbagger
09-30-2013, 07:38 AM
Well consider me flummoxed. Your scene works - it asked for nodeItemMotion plugin, but it's working without it anyway. I swapped your object for mine and reconfigured the nodes so that they're exactly the same as in my scene, and it still works. So I tried the exact same setup on my other scene, and it doesn't work. Furthermore, having the Item Info node present and the control null selected in it makes it update in real time - even though it's not actually connected.

Thanks a lot for putting that scene together, I still don't know what's going on here but you've definitely put me on the scent.


The node item motion is dp node editor that is similar to lw native node motion, but for version 9 before nt implemented its own. Adding this is the only way for me to get realtime feedback when using item info to control the morph. May have changed in newer versions. I still think something weird is going on because your original scene worked fine for me. One other thing that I forget to do is set the keys to linier... This is also important. It wont effect the morphs position not being on linier but it will effect the interpolation between each morph. for this type of effect its best to have them on linier.

Chris Jones
09-30-2013, 07:53 AM
You were right, it's the colour space. My scene is set to sRBG, whereas yours came in with everything set to linear. Specifically, Picked Colors has to be set to linear. Now I just need to see if I can apply the fix in that video...

Thanks again!

(c:

tbagger
09-30-2013, 08:05 AM
You were right, it's the colour space. My scene is set to sRBG, whereas yours came in with everything set to linear. Specifically, Picked Colors has to be set to linear. Now I just need to see if I can apply the fix in that video...

Thanks again!

(c:

Thats cool, you will be able to work it out. I had a feeling that was the issue...

Chris Jones
09-30-2013, 08:24 AM
Ok, looks like all that needs to be done is to download db&w Tools (http://www.db-w.com/products/dbwtools/download/viewcategory/13-free-lightwave-plugins-by-dbaw) and plug the Colour Space node in between the gradient colour out and the Displacement input.

117384
Case closed. :hammer:

(c:

Greenlaw
04-14-2014, 06:07 AM
...you either have to have "Studio LIVE" enabled or use IKBooster mode for the sphere controller to work interactively (as in, not only update when you scrub keyframes).

Ryan,

"Studio Live"--that was the bit of info I've been missing. I'm in a situation where I need to avoid the gradient CS issue (the CS setting may change or even vary on a production I'm involved with,) so I'm falling back to using Cycler to drive a chain of eye morphs. The problem I was running into, of course, was the lack of interactivity with Cycler. I didn't realize that all it took was to switch on Studio Live to make Cycler interactive. Thank you very much for this bit of info!

Question to anybody who might know the answer: is there a downside to having Studio Live enabled for this purpose? Just wondering why it's not on by default.

Thanks in advance for any helpful answer.

G.

RebelHill
04-14-2014, 07:21 AM
Studio live is needed to get back interactive functionality in a few tools that were interactive previous to v11... nodal interactivity being another main example. The downside is that having studio live on can significantly slow down interactivity in layout and its interactive frame rates.

Greenlaw
04-14-2014, 09:31 AM
Thanks, RH!

That's good to know. When we begin production, I'll let the animators know to switch on Studio Live only when they need it then.

G.

probiner
04-14-2014, 09:35 AM
And also have to be turned down for VPR to work properly... (infinite refresh)

So you either have interactive deforms or interactive rendering. Pick :/

Cheers

Greenlaw
04-14-2014, 09:40 AM
Ugh, it's always something, isn't it?

Oh, well--VPR won't be that important during animation. Just need to also remember to tell people to turn Studio Live off for lighting. I better start making a list of do's and don'ts. :)

Thanks for the info.

G.