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View Full Version : AutoDesk goes Rental



erikals
09-18-2013, 06:18 AM
this is good, now we can use AutoDesk apps as temporary LightWave "plugins"

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=59&t=1123694

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6jsQOUlM4P4/Ui3YXIJKv3I/AAAAAAAAziY/J4H-Pl3SJMA/s1600/3333.jpg

but where is SoftImage....(?!) :O

UK people are not so lucky though, having to pay not $195 but $327... :P

geo_n
09-18-2013, 07:43 AM
Thats a bit too high for a freelancer imho. Sticking with lw for home use. :D
For studios it will take 3 years of renting before its equivalent to buying. I think thats fair.

JonW
09-18-2013, 08:18 AM
3ds Max if I read it correctly costs $325 per month. Freight to Australia at the ars- end of the world always adds a lot!!!

Also there is no GST (VAT) which is required to be shown if you purchase from an Australian store. It does say ".au" & to get a ".au" you need a GST number.

So I am required by our tax laws to withhold $0.45 in the dollar of the purchase price & pass this onto our tax office. Autodesk will have to claim this back from our tax office!

If I don't collect and pass the $0.45 in the dollar onto our tax office. Our tax office can claim the lost GST from the purchaser so that would add another $29.55 to the price now making the cost $354.55 per month if the tax office comes after you. Plus all the administration!

hrgiger
09-18-2013, 09:09 AM
No softimage and prices too high for freelancers. My life is now no different then it was yesterday.

digitaldoc
09-18-2013, 09:14 AM
I'm loving my $19.95 Adobe Cloud and Lightwave right now.

robertoortiz
09-18-2013, 09:24 AM
I'm loving my $19.95 Adobe Cloud and Lightwave right now.

Lets see how long Adobe keeps that pricepoint...

pauland
09-18-2013, 09:27 AM
I'm loving my $19.95 Adobe Cloud and Lightwave right now.

Is that a student or introductory rate?

safetyman
09-18-2013, 12:35 PM
How long before Newtek adopts this format? Not that it's bad, just wondering.

Megalodon2.0
09-18-2013, 01:58 PM
How long before Newtek adopts this format? Not that it's bad, just wondering.

As long as they keep the OPTION to buy or rent, I see no problem. The minute they force everyone to rent is the minute I stop using LW. Fortunately... I don't think Newtek is THAT stupid.

JonW
09-18-2013, 02:50 PM
3ds Max if I read it correctly costs $325 per month. Freight to Australia at the ars- end of the world always adds a lot!!!

Also there is no GST (VAT) which is required to be shown if you purchase from an Australian store. It does say ".au" & to get a ".au" you need a GST number.

So I am required by our tax laws to withhold $0.45 in the dollar of the purchase price & pass this onto our tax office. Autodesk will have to claim this back from our tax office!

If I don't collect and pass the $0.45 in the dollar onto our tax office. Our tax office can claim the lost GST from the purchaser so that would add another $29.55 to the price now making the cost $354.55 per month if the tax office comes after you. Plus all the administration!

You have to withhold 46.5%

http://www.ato.gov.au/General/Contractors/In-detail/FAQs/No-ABN-withholding---questions-and-answers/?default=&page=4#3._How_do_I_send_the_withheld_amount_to_the _ATO?

jasonwestmas
09-18-2013, 03:13 PM
Well, the good part of this is if someone asks you if you use max or maya you can just plunk down $200 instead of several grand and get the project done. Assuminug of course you have prior experience in these apps.

erikals
09-18-2013, 03:31 PM
Well, the good part of this is if someone asks you if you use max or maya you can just plunk down $200 instead of several grand and get the project done. Assuming of course you have prior experience in these apps.

Indeed, and even if you don't, you can still use feature X in that program.

use Maya's Cloth Dynamics for example, and export to LightWave.
or import file X from the Client into Maya, and perhaps export it to LightWave.

if the Client is a Maya-wannabe, show him Maya on a project,
then when he walks out the door, switch back to your favorite app > LightWave http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

Surrealist.
09-18-2013, 05:14 PM
Well, the good part of this is if someone asks you if you use max or maya you can just plunk down $200 instead of several grand and get the project done. Assuminug of course you have prior experience in these apps.

Interesting idea.

In the mean time you can be safely working on your own training, developing a reel and so on by using educational versions. When a commercial project comes along. Rent it.

Surrealist.
09-18-2013, 05:17 PM
Indeed, and even if you don't, you can still use feature X in that program.

use Maya's Cloth Dynamics for example, and export to LightWave.
or import file X from the Client into Maya, and perhaps export it to LightWave.

if the Client is a Maya-wannabe, show him Maya on a project,
then when he walks out the door, switch back to your favorite app > LightWave http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

Indeed, then something horrible might happen.....

You might actually love working with nDynamics...

Proceed with caution. :D

erikals
09-18-2013, 05:33 PM
true-true... http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

geo_n
09-18-2013, 06:33 PM
How long before Newtek adopts this format? Not that it's bad, just wondering.

Newtek doesnt have enough starpower to pull off renting scheme. If they had a big marketshare they could but they dont.
AD and Adobe is almost industry standard they can do pretty much what they want.

Softimage is slowly put to death....

jasonwestmas
09-18-2013, 07:28 PM
Indeed, and even if you don't, you can still use feature X in that program.

use Maya's Cloth Dynamics for example, and export to LightWave.
or import file X from the Client into Maya, and perhaps export it to LightWave.

if the Client is a Maya-wannabe, show him Maya on a project,
then when he walks out the door, switch back to your favorite app > LightWave http://erikalstad.com/backup/misc.php_files/smile.gif

I tend to agree with that, I really enjoy using maya's nDynamics. The presets are really nice and I enjoy the keyframing workflow for all sorts of stuff. It's tough to render in maya (I find) so using lightwave/VPR is a friendly place to finish things up in that arena. Looking forward to strong LW Alembic support.

Surrealist.
09-18-2013, 09:34 PM
Do you mean rendering in Mental Ray?

Or do you mean managing lights, exclusions and all of the other elements of rendering? Or do you mean that and setting up texturing?

For me after getting over some basic humps it did come together quite easily and I find a lot of things are one or two clicks, done as opposed to long drawn out set ups other places. Overall I have always liked the Maya interface and has always seemed visually oriented and easy to get to and do the basic every day stuff without getting deep into it at all.

LightWave on the other hand is certainly familiar.

I guess I heard lots of people talking about rendering in Maya and Mental Ray and I expected it to be harsh. And I did not find it that way at all. In fact I am almost finding it much more easy and user friendly.

digitaldoc
09-18-2013, 09:37 PM
Is that a student or introductory rate?

Previous owner of CS3-6, price goes to $49.95/month after 1 year.

jasonwestmas
09-19-2013, 12:25 AM
Do you mean rendering in Mental Ray?

Or do you mean managing lights, exclusions and all of the other elements of rendering? Or do you mean that and setting up texturing?

For me after getting over some basic humps it did come together quite easily and I find a lot of things are one or two clicks, done as opposed to long drawn out set ups other places. Overall I have always liked the Maya interface and has always seemed visually oriented and easy to get to and do the basic every day stuff without getting deep into it at all.

LightWave on the other hand is certainly familiar.

I guess I heard lots of people talking about rendering in Maya and Mental Ray and I expected it to be harsh. And I did not find it that way at all. In fact I am almost finding it much more easy and user friendly.

Mental Ray is a lot more simple in maya now, but I've been using Vray. I use a lot of textures and displacements which tends to slow down the surfacing process when using the IPR. I find it to be a painfully slow process for that even when keeping the sub-D levels low. However the results are quite beautiful once the marathon starts to come to an end. RT is unreliable for such work, it breaks. Been waiting for RT fixes for several months but I don't see any difference. Then throwing in hair and fur into the mix. . .oh boy. ;)

VPR and Lightwave in general is much easier for me to optimize, therefore I can get to a mid-qualiy preview faster. With Vray, quality tends to be an on/off switch. I either get crap that renders fast or something beautiful that just takes too long to IPR little bits here and there. Progressive rendering is a much nicer workflow. I realize I probably don't know all the maya tricks to speed things up without killing the quality too much. I have a hell of a time getting reflections and glossiness to look just right with texture maps. Vray is all about physical accuaracy (I haven 't found many tricks to speed things up and still get a good picture of what I'm doing) so it takes some time to learn how to tame its long winded approach to surfacing.

With that said I would say Vray is much faster when you don't have to do a lot of texture mapping, waiting for your textures to load into memory and all that.

CourtJester
09-20-2013, 04:40 PM
Those rates are bonkers.

I wonder what is the language where "Autodesk" means "tone deaf."

It's like somebody launching an online music site at $10 PER SONG, one year after Apple's Itunes has already set price expectations at 99 cents.

To be fair, with all the 3D motion graphic sort of thing you can do in AfterEffects nowadays - especially with Trapcode Particular and VideoCopilot's Element 3D - the market for full 3D has been compressed into the much smaller high end film/TV segment. Adobe's potential market/client base is probably 20-100 times Autodesk's, so I'm not surprised that the profit margin might be a lot higher for them.

Either way, a market that consists entirely of me won't bear these price points.

Surrealist.
09-21-2013, 04:14 PM
Mental Ray is a lot more simple in maya now, but I've been using Vray. I use a lot of textures and displacements which tends to slow down the surfacing process when using the IPR. I find it to be a painfully slow process for that even when keeping the sub-D levels low. However the results are quite beautiful once the marathon starts to come to an end. RT is unreliable for such work, it breaks. Been waiting for RT fixes for several months but I don't see any difference. Then throwing in hair and fur into the mix. . .oh boy. ;)

VPR and Lightwave in general is much easier for me to optimize, therefore I can get to a mid-qualiy preview faster. With Vray, quality tends to be an on/off switch. I either get crap that renders fast or something beautiful that just takes too long to IPR little bits here and there. Progressive rendering is a much nicer workflow. I realize I probably don't know all the maya tricks to speed things up without killing the quality too much. I have a hell of a time getting reflections and glossiness to look just right with texture maps. Vray is all about physical accuaracy (I haven 't found many tricks to speed things up and still get a good picture of what I'm doing) so it takes some time to learn how to tame its long winded approach to surfacing.

With that said I would say Vray is much faster when you don't have to do a lot of texture mapping, waiting for your textures to load into memory and all that.

Interesting. I did have a play with Vray as well as 3Dlight in Softimage. Both have their plus and minus points.

But I took to Mental Ray very fast in Softimage and then over to Maya I thought it was limited but it was just a misunderstanding. Bad labeling of the feature I was looking for - in my defense. But after a bit of struggle I did find it very easy to use and setting things up is very quick. Actually much faster than Softimage. Most of the basic set ups are just one or two clicks away. And then there is native IBL which you can unlock and that is a cool feature hidden under the hood.

For me Vray still forces some compromises I don't like, a feature or two not supported, but that is balanced with some very nice shaders and features, not the least of which is Vray Proxi. But open subdiv is likely to trump that very soon.

What I'd like to see NT get into is open subdiv. I am loving Viewport 2.0 and the new DX11 shader feature is something I have yet to play with. But I think that is the future.

Something else to watch for in Maya is Furry Ball and Red Nova:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=87&t=1121380

jasonwestmas
09-21-2013, 06:14 PM
Yeah I'm definitely axious to get into GPU rendering but that will require a serious computer hardware investment for what I want to do with it.

In defense of vray for maya. I sent in my scene and apparently I'm very good at finding bugs with my style of working. So they said they fixed the RT problem in the nightly beta and I'll be giving that another try.

jasonwestmas
09-21-2013, 06:49 PM
Looking at all those render tests it looks like some of the GPU render engines cut the the rendertime roughly in half. Redshift looks cool too.

Surrealist.
09-21-2013, 10:01 PM
Yeah good work with Chaos. I was not so successful with them:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=1096282

Got in on the beta of Red Shift (I meant to say not Red Nova) but have not had time to play yet.

Red_Oddity
09-22-2013, 04:35 AM
Jason, have you tried changing the DMC subdiv multiplier when doing a VRay IPR/RT, we find it helps a lot when we need to do tweaking on heavy scenes

Subdivs Mult - this will multiply all subdivs values everywhere during rendering; you can use this to quickly increase/decrease sampling quality everywhere. This affects everything, except for the lightmap, photon map, caustics and antialiasing subdivisions. Everything else (dof, moblur, irradiance map, brute-force GI, area lights, area shadows, glossy reflections/refractions) is affected by this parameter.

jasonwestmas
09-22-2013, 08:02 AM
Jason, have you tried changing the DMC subdiv multiplier when doing a VRay IPR/RT, we find it helps a lot when we need to do tweaking on heavy scenes

Yes I have. . . I've only been using vray for a year now so still working out different ways to optimize. . . but usually I can get a usable feeback for surfacing with IPR if I drop the DMC subdivs to 8 (Threshold of .01). It's grainy looking at that level but that's ok for some things. Finals are between 15 and 30 subdivs with a threshold between .007 and .003. I don't change individual subdivs of materials and lights, only for geometry which I keep between 3 and 6 starting off.

I usually turn off the GI and use a dome light with a texture to light, but even then it's that long pause between renders that really adds up. I miss progressive rendering.

I'm still waiting for that RT fix for my scene but maybe I'll get that next week.

Red_Oddity
09-25-2013, 02:40 PM
If you have some extra PCs around you could also use the distributed renderer (VRay 2 comes 10 render nodes), and if you don't run assets from a server you can enable transfer assets.
We do IPR renders on our 32 core blades over 10G network from a server and it flies.

jasonwestmas
09-25-2013, 10:11 PM
If you have some extra PCs around you could also use the distributed renderer (VRay 2 comes 10 render nodes), and if you don't run assets from a server you can enable transfer assets.
We do IPR renders on our 32 core blades over 10G network from a server and it flies.

Yeah distributed rendering with my computers works well for large images, but not so good for smaller ones, it's about the same speed with an i7 and two i5s. I need to get faster computers. :)

Anyway, Chaos fixed my RT problem. Turns out it was just a combinations of blend nodes with fastSSS and bump maps.

Silkrooster
09-26-2013, 11:57 PM
Those monthly rates should be the annual. Jeesh thats high. Kind of puts me out of the race.