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prometheus
09-14-2013, 08:53 AM
Have seen the two pilot episodes, since I am a scifi fan and a lot of it being Lightwave effects and vue etc...It was interesting to see what the fuzz is about.

Sadly the initial pilotīs didnīt bring any excitment to me, I couldnīt get a good interest in the Story ..which is the most important factor, I couldnīt find any charm in the characters, I couldnt see any
cool editing or something in the photo that was something special.

The visual effects...had expected something more I guess, didnīt see any spectacular about it really, at least not in these two pilot episodes, very recognizable vue backgrounds, and clouds not really
worked on to look as good as they should, typical settings for spectral atmosphere and clouds showing to much of procedural puff syndrome.

General environments didnīt impress me either, canīt say for sure what it was..but it didnīt look aestheticly good..from my point of view, must have been hard though since it has to follow the surrounding
story and setīs in a logical way for that environment.

I might give It a fast glance at it next time...but that is the last chance before I decide to spend my time better on other stuff.
You never can tell, but I donīt think this series will last long with good viewer rates here in sweden.

Michael

dsol
09-14-2013, 10:41 AM
It just looked like a cheap mashup of Serenity and Terra Nova to me. It's been a long time since a new Sci-fi show really got my atttention. Most of the ones out there seem to suffer from a serious lack of imagination

prometheus
09-14-2013, 11:13 AM
It just looked like a cheap mashup of Serenity and Terra Nova to me. It's been a long time since a new Sci-fi show really got my atttention. Most of the ones out there seem to suffer from a serious lack of imagination

yeah exactly..agree on that.

Maybe the art direction wasnīt that extra ordinary when making concept environmental desing for this show? and that shines through...that might impact the general overal look of visual effect together, even though
technicly it might have been challenging and some parts have been delt with fast and nicely.

I do think they get Rob Powers vote for the Emmy nominations...referencing to the siggraph presentation.
I donīt know about the competition for it..except for Battlestar galactica blood and chrome, which I havenīt seen.

Michael

jwiede
09-15-2013, 12:54 PM
I think the story and characterization improved as the episodes of the first season played out, though at times it seemed like they only fleshed out characters in order to build emotional attachment (good or bad) right before killing them off -- for spoiler reasons, I'll avoid specifics. Still, watched the whole season with interest, whereas I gave up on Terra Nova after the first few episodes (and even by then was hoping the entire cast would be eaten by rabid badgers, ideally along with the colorist).

I definitely get what you mean about the environments, the wide shots (esp. in the title sequence) had a very "generic Vue ecosystem output" feel to them. The title sequence also had some really poor environmental comp work, where CG areas had wildly different lighting than real. Also, yes, the skies were clearly not receiving much money/attention -- I'm not sure that mattered in most cases, though in a few specific cases I do agree better skies would have greatly improved the overall vfx. Still, overall, I didn't find the matte and vfx work as disruptive as you did, it seems. I was certainly willing to overlook it in many cases, though I found the "lower mines" shots very cringe-inducing in most cases. That greatly reduced the visual impact of the season finale for me as a result, but that's one of the very few cases where I found the CG stuff disruptive (the less-than-explosive "explosion" towards the end of the pilot was the other biggie for me -- reminded me much too much of the tornado in 'The Wizard of Oz", kept waiting for a witch on a bicycle to pedal by cackling among the flying alien wreckage).

Anyone know if Sci-Fi officially cancelled it, or renewed it for another season? Probably replaced it with another stupid reality show by now, just one of the many reasons I've all but stopped watching Sci-Fi or SyFy or whatever they're calling themselves this week. I'd suggest shoving a shark up their programming head honcho, but judging by the programming, they'd probably enjoy, film, and schedule it for a six-episode run.

Ryan Roye
09-15-2013, 02:12 PM
Defiance is ok. Nothing award winning, but watchable. I just don't like that some of the show's content really gives that "it happens because its in the script" feel to it that I don't like. I really couldn't care less how much attention they put into the visuals, they serve their purpose for the show.

spherical
09-15-2013, 02:35 PM
Anyone know if Sci-Fi officially cancelled it, or renewed it for another season? Probably replaced it with another stupid reality show by now, just one of the many reasons I've all but stopped watching Sci-Fi or SyFy or whatever they're calling themselves this week. I'd suggest shoving a shark up their programming head honcho, but judging by the programming, they'd probably enjoy, film, and schedule it for a six-episode run.

What cranks me off about those clowns is they'll kill Eureka (http://screenrant.com/eureka-canceled-series-finale-ending-aco-127496/) and Warehouse 13 (http://screenrant.com/warehouse-13-cancelled/), only to put on some junk like TN, Def and more reality crap. In the case of WH13, it appears that Def was chosen over WH13 because of a supposed link between the show and the game and that looked like a better return on investment to NBCUniversal suits.

Megalodon2.0
09-15-2013, 02:38 PM
Anyone know if Sci-Fi officially cancelled it, or renewed it for another season? Probably replaced it with another stupid reality show by now, just one of the many reasons I've all but stopped watching Sci-Fi or SyFy or whatever they're calling themselves this week. I'd suggest shoving a shark up their programming head honcho, but judging by the programming, they'd probably enjoy, film, and schedule it for a six-episode run.
It has been renewed for a second season.

Defiance is ok. Nothing award winning, but watchable. I just don't like that some of the show's content really gives that "it happens because its in the script" feel to it that I don't like. I really couldn't care less how much attention they put into the visuals, they serve their purpose for the show.
I agree. My wife and I enjoy watching and the show HAS gotten better as the season progressed. Watching the trailers I really was NOT interested at all, but I tend to give shows the benefit of the doubt to see how they work out. I think Defiance is improving and is definitely watchable - though obviously not everyones cup of tea. Then again, we also enjoyed Terranova. ;)

Megalodon2.0
09-15-2013, 02:45 PM
What cranks me off about those clowns is they'll kill Eureka (http://screenrant.com/eureka-canceled-series-finale-ending-aco-127496/) and Warehouse 13 (http://screenrant.com/warehouse-13-cancelled/), only to put on some junk like TN, Def and more reality crap. In the case of WH13, it appears that Def was chosen over WH13 because of a supposed link between the show and the game and that looked like a better return on investment to NBCUniversal suits.
That really sucks. We liked both of those shows. Though in reality, we have been watching less and less "Syfy" this year BECAUSE of the reality crap - which is apparently MUCH cheaper to produce. We'd rather watch the looney "Syfy Saturday night shlock flicks" than this reality stuff. Quite sad.

Dexter2999
09-15-2013, 03:00 PM
I liked WH13 but felt it had run its course. Pete used to be the funny guy but now Claudia gets all the good lines. Jinx is pointless. They have all but jumped the shark.

Similarly EUREKA was rebooted TWICE!!! They had run out of ideas. It's sad but it happens.

DEFIANCE needs better writing. The effect are fine. The art direction overall is really good.

I'd rather see X FILES, MILLENIUM, SUPERNATURAL re-runs rather than wrestling though. And why is STNG on BBC?

cresshead
09-15-2013, 03:00 PM
Defiance is okay, sad to see the girl go though. She seemed under used in the show really.

Oedo 808
09-15-2013, 03:20 PM
Is that a spoiler, cress? Or just someone deciding not to do the second series?

Areyos Alektor
09-15-2013, 07:20 PM
TV series which are eye-catching at the beginning are not legion. But here we are still above the J.J. Abrams productions or kind Falling Skies. The game is not sensational, but we see that there is work behind the series-game concept. Resume Battlestar pilote and look at how far the series has been. I think Defiance deserves his chance.

Red_Oddity
09-16-2013, 02:36 AM
I thought the series was as exciting as the game, which is, dull as a pile of bricks.

And what happened to writing in SciFi? When we have story arcs like Deep Space 9 and dialog as in Firefly as benchmarks, they really need to do better than Defiance's cliched stories and characters no more interesting than the airheads from Jersey Shore. Seriously these characters where so 2 dimensional it was painful to watch.

As for VFX, the vista's and mattes where well done (keying is also very nicely done), but the large scale battles felt no better than someone screencasting the MMO and then adding some flares and grading (no offence to he people who most likely worked their butts of on this show.)

I mean, i just rewatched some episodes of Star Gate Universe, and man, those vfx and cg characters are done REALLY well.

Not sure what my point is, but i think most of it can be written down to catering to the lowest common denominator.

jeric_synergy
09-16-2013, 08:49 AM
I mean, i just rewatched some episodes of Star Gate Universe, and man, those vfx and cg characters are done REALLY well.
And yet the show was deadly dull. It lacked the signature fun of the SG franchise.

Red_Oddity
09-16-2013, 12:22 PM
True, it certainly had its up and downs, and it's a shame that by the time the show picked up most of the slack, it was already on the chopping block.

shrox
09-16-2013, 12:54 PM
The structurally incorrect Gateway Arch from St. Louis bothered me.

mikala
09-16-2013, 04:17 PM
I detest the cheap *** alien ships they put in orbit for the (also the opening of the show)pilot.
A bunch of low rez looking crap.

prometheus
09-17-2013, 07:12 AM
I detest the cheap *** alien ships they put in orbit for the (also the opening of the show)pilot.
A bunch of low rez looking crap.

Actually..I didnīt think those were too bad, in outer atmosphere and space shots I think they did a better level of quality work..compared to earth environments.
Itīs probably easier to use lightwave solely for those out of earth scenes since Lightwave often produces such good space scenes by history, but of course ...it is dependent on the artist being well aquainted
with the tools and rendering techniques inside of lightwave to do that, since Lightwave has a good track record of such shots..there are undoubtly artist knowing how to acheive that.

Earth environmental scenes I would say are more challenging, and also especially when carrying through concepts of a changed earth world we havenīt seen before...in this case they seemed to have worked
with both lightwave and vue to best get the job done accordingly to the concepts, but with a highly mixed quality result.

To me it seems that the team behind it undoubtly were in need to produce shots in a fast pace to be able to cope with the show, and that in the end shows...I can only speculate that vue backgrounds are thrown in to deliver skies fast..
and without actually setting them up from scratch or even bother to rework preset skies and clouds, so they end up with half decent backdrops regarding clouds, and atmospherics looking very distinct as a.."I can tell this is a vue sky render miles away."

I can understand the issue of production budget and time ..there might not have been any time to polish and polish the scenes to perfection...but if not that comes at a cost of how the end result looks.
Ive heard and seen a lot from the siggraph presentation, on how important it has been with production tools that doesnīt require to advance and complex time consuming processes, and fair enough I agree with that sort of, but
I think that must be seen in relation to the team and the artists working within that process, they must have a talent to retain quality in the artwork Even if the time is limited.

Maybe it simply can be summed up that the balance between the amount of time the artist should have put in to the work in relation to the budget and quality wasnīt enough?
It would be interesting to see initial art concepts,storyboards of the show ..simply to get an idea if it could have been at the stage of concept art it wasnt that good, or if the vfx matte artists didnīt carry the concept art through properly.

So from my point of view I didnīt fancy the Looks of the show, neither for character design, photo cinematic, nor environment matte.
Apart from that, the showīs character personality, dialog..and the story itself, felt very mediocer so to speak.
Im having a hard time accepthing dialog and characters in scenes talking about other alien races...like, oh didnīt you know ..heīs a votan, or he is a frizz..or something else we simply cantīt relate too or have no clue to how they might look or behave etc, dialog saying that he is a swede...or Italian, or Irish, that says it all:) since we most likely know about related behaviour etc.
it is just utterly confusing and doesnīt help the viewer to follow the story with interest.

In such cases with multiple unknown races and culture, I would say you need to introduce the races delicatly and maybe within seperate episoded where we get an insight of that culture how the race looks and behave etc.
I think babylon 5 managed to do that in a much better way.
Presenting a show with only two or a few more races initially, would keep a conflict more easy to follow and would allow a series to be prolonged with introduction of other races and more exciting conflicts during the development
of the series, rather than a mish mash of multi cultures that you canīt grasp in the pilot episodes.

Michael

geo_n
09-17-2013, 09:36 AM
The show is like teranova. If you can survive up to episode 6 of defiance it gets better. No where as good as game of thrones or walking dead but its not the worst out there.

prometheus
09-17-2013, 10:04 AM
The show is like teranova. If you can survive up to episode 6 of defiance it gets better. No where as good as game of thrones or walking dead but its not the worst out there.

Iīm not looking for the worst out there:) looking for the better ones...Oh well, good to hear it might get better, I will check the next episode..but it better get interesting or show something better, other wise I will spend my time
more wisely.

Michael

geo_n
09-17-2013, 11:12 PM
If you can finish it up to the end maybe its not so much a waste of time. :D

Ernest
09-18-2013, 12:01 AM
It's been a long time since a new Sci-fi show really got my atttention. Most of the ones out there seem to suffer from a serious lack of imagination

Have you tried Continuum?

Qexit
09-18-2013, 08:48 AM
Defiance is like a lot of recent sci-fi shows. It starts with a big(ish) budget pilot episode followed quickly by a string of ho-hum 'did anything really worth watching actually happen' episodes before picking things up in the final two or three episodes to finish on the big season finale cliff-hanger. A really good, or should that be bad ?, example of this is 'Under the Dome'. I only watched the first episode and the final three episodes and missed out on absolutely nothing except maybe several hours of wince worthy storylines and dreadful acting.

Stargate Universe suffered from BSG syndrome, i.e. everything and everybody had to be doom and gloom laden. If anyone showed signs of becoming happy you just knew something dreadful would happen very soon to wipe the smiles off their faces. It also suffered from the 'I've got a secret that I shouldn't be keeping but must otherwise there isn't any plot left' syndrome that has also been dogging a lot of sci-fi (and other genre) shows in recent times.

jeric_synergy
09-18-2013, 08:59 AM
Stargate Universe suffered from BSG syndrome, i.e. everything and everybody had to be doom and gloom laden. If anyone showed signs of becoming happy you just knew something dreadful would happen very soon to wipe the smiles off their faces. It also suffered from the 'I've got a secret that I shouldn't be keeping but must otherwise there isn't any plot left' syndrome that has also been dogging a lot of sci-fi (and other genre) shows in recent times.
Exactly. The earmarks of the SG universe is that it's a bit goofy. No goofiness in SG:U.

Once they divorced themselves from Earth (SG:A and SG:U), the shows got a lot less interesting, but at least SG:A still had fun and silliness. SG:U had too many crew from BSG. (That is, production crew, not cast.)

shrox
09-18-2013, 09:25 AM
But I liked SGU because when I wear my reading glasses I look like Dr Rush...

jeric_synergy
09-18-2013, 10:07 AM
Yeah, and I look like Mitch Pileggi, but that's not enough reason to watch a show.

+++
I'd like a show that DOESN'T involve an apocalypse in any way/shape/form, just a futurescape that is interesting, illuminates current issues, and has witty banter.

Apparently, that's a lot to ask.

Qexit
09-18-2013, 10:18 AM
I'd like a show that DOESN'T involve an apocalypse in any way/shape/form, just a futurescape that is interesting, illuminates current issues, and has witty banter.

Apparently, that's a lot to ask.Continuum pretty managed to achieve that during its first season, not so much in the second where it started to wander off in all sorts of directions and started to take itself far too seriously.

shrox
09-18-2013, 11:03 AM
Well, there is always Star Trek TNG on BBC America...in fact it's on right now.

jeric_synergy
09-18-2013, 11:03 AM
Continuum pretty managed to achieve that during its first season, not so much in the second where it started to wander off in all sorts of directions and started to take itself far too seriously.
I've heard good things about it, but the one time I tuned in, got lost.

I wish Bruce Sterling would create a world that TV writers could have a go at: imo the Shaper/Mechanist universe was one of the great feats of SF world-building.

dsol
09-18-2013, 11:11 AM
Did you ever see "Charlie Jade"? It's far from perfect, but it was quite an original and interesting sci-fi show. Only lasted one season sadly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Jade

jeric_synergy
09-18-2013, 11:19 AM
Maybe the proliferation of shows is dropping their budgets to a level where they can't afford good VFX.

They could still afford good WRITING.

(dan, never saw nor even heard of it!!! dang.)

stiff paper
09-18-2013, 11:39 AM
But I liked SGU because when I wear my reading glasses I look like Dr Rush...

Yeah, and I look like Mitch Pileggi, but that's not enough reason to watch a show.

Honestly, don't complain. I look like Gimli.

And it's at least twenty years since I last saw a science fiction TV show that I didn't think was as dumb as a box of rocks. I'm not holding out much hope that that'll change any time soon.

shrox
09-18-2013, 11:53 AM
Honestly, don't complain. I look like Gimli.

And it's at least twenty years since I last saw a science fiction TV show that I didn't think was as dumb as a box of rocks. I'm not holding out much hope that that'll change any time soon.

Yeah, but Dr. Rush is evil, Gimili is good.

prometheus
09-18-2013, 12:31 PM
a little off topic spin here...since you guys mention it.
so who do I look like? :)
well... it is too scary showcasing the forum with my real photo I am afraid:) I might do a lightwave scene only for lightwave users revealing my looks somehow...meanwhile you might get an idea
of scary me by checking this actor some people say I am looking like...I think heīs got a little more hair left on the top of the head than I do though, but I got more on the side and not as grey...but Im supposed to be very
look a like.

Featured in the swedish version of the girl with the dragoon tatoo (swedish title is actually translated differently, it should be .."men that hates women")
he is also playing in ghost protocol, playing a villain against tom cruise, and he also plays a a musical director suffering from a heart disorder in a very nice swedish film called "like in heaven"
Michael Nyqvist...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0638824/?ref_=sr_1
117165


spin back to on topic...
As the scifi fan I am..I am a little sad that the more time passes by, there will be a drought of innovative scripts I suppose, that is the nature of things that there will be lesser topics and ideas to come up with since we
have already seen so much scifi stuff.

pinkmouse
09-18-2013, 02:12 PM
It's annoying, there's so much good writing out there at the moment, as well as a huge amount of classic books. Why can't someone actually have a go at proper sci-fi, rather than yet another "teen angst in space" soap opera.

Some thoughts on possible candidates here (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/sci_fi_movie_poll/).

Qexit
09-18-2013, 02:22 PM
Interesting list of possibilities there. I could definitely see The Stainless Steel Rat by Harry Harrison making it as a successful TV series with enough appeal to keep running and it could probably be done on a relatively low budget. Written properly, it would have something for everyone. I wouldn't want to see his other title The Technicolor Time Machine as a series though. The reason being that some years ago, the BBC did a one off radio play version which was superb and a TV version could not match it :-)

prometheus
09-18-2013, 02:43 PM
It's annoying, there's so much good writing out there at the moment, as well as a huge amount of classic books. Why can't someone actually have a go at proper sci-fi, rather than yet another "teen angst in space" soap opera.

Some thoughts on possible candidates here (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/sci_fi_movie_poll/).

I have a confession to make, I hate reading..just canīt have patience with it, just a few books that Ivīe managed to read through really. (so that list tells me little, I need recommendations of the good ones)
There was an interesting scifi story about a man surviving a disaster, and he finds himself all alone on earth, but he isnīt sure, he does get help from robotīs to rebuild the world and search for surviving life..and
he submits himself to cryostasis several times during thousands of years in different periods, ordering the robots to improve the world around him and create life I think..that was interesting and Iīm not sure if it has been
adapted to film yet.
Sadly I donīt know who wrote it, donīt have the book where I can find it anyway..have to google search I guess.

Im not sure if it was Robert A. Heinlein or someone else, I donīt think it was philip. k .dick maybe someone else?

I still havenīt gotten bored with the scifi theme of robotīs an AI, I love those themes...it kind of brings up questions so very close to what and who we are as humans, so
I just love films like Blade runner though not entirely robots, AI, I robot, the Bicentennial Man, terminator and the likes.

The time travel theme...love them too, but they can be hard to follow, Ive been following some of the fringe series ..which I have began to enjoy..even though I have missed many of the first episodes.
And I loved the Time machine movie too.

The virtual reality or the dream world, theme or fantasy, being Matrix (only the first one) actually the last scifi movie that really moved my brain experience anywere,Avatar...sorry it didnīt...though
I appreciated some wonderful cg work..but the there was other stuff in it I didnīt like.
I couldnīt get a grasp of inception..not sure if it qualifies as scifi by the way.
Minority report was quite a good show too.

Space battle and invasions and conflicts ...I generally loved it before, but not anymore...when that becomes the leading Actor with itīs explosive highlights and action as the driving force instead of a good story, it is just dull.

I do have an scifi idea of us humans having to resort to genetics and some radiation or some other clever device allowing us to shrink ourself, which is needed in the future when all nature resources are almost used up, and we
are constantly growing in numbers, so in the end we are subjected to experiments and finally find ourself being small as fairies, and that would impose conflicts with other species here on earth.
Donīt steel my idea now:) or maybe someone already has thought of that?

Michael

jasonwestmas
09-18-2013, 03:15 PM
The acting reminds me of the old 1990s Star Trek spin offs. But hey, it's T.V. Xena and Hercules springs to mind too. lol

pinkmouse
09-18-2013, 03:43 PM
...the BBC did a one off radio play version which was superb and a TV version could not match it :-)

Ooh, missed that. Should come 'round on 4Extra though eventually. ;)

Qexit
09-18-2013, 05:14 PM
Ooh, missed that. Should come 'round on 4Extra though eventually. ;)Very likely. Mind you, as it first went out on September 5th 1981 it might take a while to show up. I still have the tape I made of it at that time along with a recording of Arthur C Clarke's 'A Fall of Moondust' by the same team at around the same time. I'm pretty sure they also covered 'The Chrysalids' by John Wyndham but I missed recording that one.

jeric_synergy
09-18-2013, 07:33 PM
a little off topic spin here...since you guys mention it.
so who do I look like? :)
I'll say Gary Sinise.

++++
As to writing: I think an 'omnibus' show that just mined the last 30 years of Nebula/Hugo award short stories would be good. Omnibus (think 'Twilight Zone') shows have rather gone out of fashion as the celebrity culture has emerged, but I liked 'em. PLUS, readymade body of work.

The BEST tv S.F. I've seen in forever was one episode of the NEW (seven+ years ago???) 'Outer Limits', about a time traveling physicist who'd wait until a serial murderer was convicted, then go back in time and execute him (it's always a guy) before his first murder. Only trouble was, now she's got two histories in her head.... It was really quite good, although they soft-pedaled the "time machine requires human fetus" aspect of the script.

Anyway, since writers nowadays seem to suck like a Hoover, mining these GOOD stories might be damn refreshing.

++
My nominations for books that should be movies:

"Way Station" -- you could do it soooo cheap!
"NOVA" -- it would be SOOOOOoooooo expensive, but GREAT!

++
I looked at that poll, and very very few of those would be good movies, IMNSHO. Nothing by Iain M. Banks would make a good movie, he's all about language.

Remember a movie is at MOST a novella. A big thick doorstop book does not a good movie make, because unless you're Peter Jackson too much gets left out.

Something shallow and stupid like 'Ringworld' would make a good movie. I'd love to see the Shaper/Mechanist universe get brought to the screen though.

"Moving Mars" might make a good movie.

pinkmouse
09-19-2013, 12:44 AM
Remember a movie is at MOST a novella. A big thick doorstop book does not a good movie make, because unless you're Peter Jackson too much gets left out.

I agree, that's why I was suggesting them in the context of a TV series. ;)

stiff paper
09-19-2013, 08:21 AM
There was an interesting scifi story about a man surviving a disaster, and he finds himself all alone on earth, but he isnīt sure, he does get help from robotīs to rebuild the world and search for surviving life..and he submits himself to cryostasis several times during thousands of years in different periods, ordering the robots to improve the world around him and create life I think..that was interesting and Iīm not sure if it has been adapted to film yet. Sadly I donīt know who wrote it, donīt have the book where I can find it anyway..have to google search I guess.
It bothers me that I can't identify whatever that novel is. Bah. Also, it seems from your precis that it would have a slow, almost elegiac tone, and I don't think any SF with that sort of tone stands much chance of being made these days, at least not if it would be expensive to make. Everything these days has to be dumb enough, have enough explosions in it, and have enough soap-opera style "characterization" in it to appeal to all the humanoids out there.


Nothing by Iain M. Banks would make a good movie...
Ah, but if you get rid of the M then The Wasp Factory could be a great movie. Not actually a very nice movie, sure, but potentially good.

dsol
09-19-2013, 08:49 AM
Nothing by Iain M. Banks would make a good movie, he's all about language.

Remember a movie is at MOST a novella. A big thick doorstop book does not a good movie make, because unless you're Peter Jackson too much gets left out.

I'd kill to see a good adaptation of Iain M Bank's works to screen. I agree that shoehorning them into movies would be difficult, but I don't think it's impossible. Eg. "The player of games" has already been optioned several times (though I suspect the cost of adapting it is a stumbling block). "Consider Phlebas", "Against a dark background" and "matter" are all ripe for movie adaptations, with careful streamlining of the plots. More complex novels than those have made it successfully to the screen. Though, of course, I'd much rather see an HBO miniseries of them! (and Peter F Hamilton's "Night's Dawn" trilogy too)

jeric_synergy
09-19-2013, 09:25 AM
I enjoyed IMB's works, but often felt there was little "there, there". A consummate wordsmith to be sure. Eh, maybe I'm too shallow.
Some writers can make a grocery list readable. Banks was one of them. I certainly regretted reading the punch line to "Use of Weapons".

Heck, what about Heinlein's juveniles? "Tunnel In The Sky" cries out for tv-series/miniseries realization. Cheap too. Maybe a bit too much "Terra Nova".

But really, I'd prefer some Jack Vance: people just doing their jobs in a fantastic milieu.

dsol
09-19-2013, 09:32 AM
I enjoyed IMB's works, but often felt there was little "there, there". A consummate wordsmith to be sure. Eh, maybe I'm too shallow.
Some writers can make a grocery list readable. Banks was one of them. I certainly regretted reading the punch line to "Use of Weapons".

Heck, what about Heinlein's juveniles? "Tunnel In The Sky" cries out for tv-series/miniseries realization. Cheap too. Maybe a bit too much "Terra Nova".

But really, I'd prefer some Jack Vance: people just doing their jobs in a fantastic milieu.

You should *really* read the Night's Dawn trilogy then. It's rollicking super-heroic, action sci-fi (with interesting supernatural horror crossover aspects too!). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reality_Dysfunction

I like Heinlein, but I do think his work's all very much "of its time". You'd have to make some fairly wide-ranging changes to make it suit modern tastes

prometheus
09-19-2013, 12:19 PM
It bothers me that I can't identify whatever that novel is. Bah. Also, it seems from your precis that it would have a slow, almost elegiac tone, and I don't think any SF with that sort of tone stands much chance of being made these days, at least not if it would be expensive to make. Everything these days has to be dumb enough, have enough explosions in it, and have enough soap-opera style "characterization" in it to appeal to all the humanoids out there.




Yeah...that might be so that it doesnīt have a chance of being made, that doesnīt say though..if accepted It could be a great movie, it all comes down to the story itself being something that attracts to people, then the director, camera men, editing, dialog and actors and of course the art department and vfx studios and soundtrack score, when all of those elements sing in harmony, you got something great..but it could just be enough if just one of all those fails ...and it could screw up the whole movie.

I actually beleive that the o extatic explosive era...might be on the verge to fall out of grace from what the audience find amusing quite soon, perhaps surviving a couple of years ahead depending on how it fits in to stories etc, it has been survivingquite long though, not sure when the theme of explosions started to really go highwire? in the history of film that is.

Still canīt find that scifi story or author, must look for it..Itīs odd that I canīt remember it though, since I recall reading it almost non stop to the end, and as you mentioned..the story seem to have a slow tone to it, even boring..but it depends on how you fill the voids and scenes with interesting scenes, questions..dialog with robots that really makes you question your place as a human, civilization and our own environment etc.
I really enjoyed Ai..and bicentennial man, would call those high action..even thou there are some chase excitement in AI.
Now there might be so that..a tv series might have a hard time to survive with such themes.

By the way, one of my favourite scifi films is "GATTACA" ..There is no gene for the human spirit:)

prometheus
09-19-2013, 12:38 PM
Regarding the story and author I was looking for about the only living man after a world war, he could tell the robots to put him in to hibernation, while the robots searched for life and improved the world around him, and improve themself..maybe even create a human being again, it was James white and the title, "second ending" (in swedish completly different titel called... "eternal life")
http://www.sectorgeneral.com/books/secondending.html"

Michael

prometheus
09-21-2013, 06:43 AM
seen the third episode of Defiance, this wont do it for me, that was the last chance...3 hours wasted actually on watching that show.
the third episod even less vfx or less visual goodies, and it continues to have this dialog of mumbling different species without context so you have no idea of
what they talk about .
The pace of the series and conflict types are pretty dull.

So for the general show idea and story ..this isnīt for me, If anyone knows of a perticular episode that could be of interest from a Lightwavers point of view with something really nice, please feel free to share ..and I might keep an eye of that, but following the series isnīt worth it.

I rather spend time watching ancient babylon 5 over and over again really...or go out for a walk in the sun.

Michael

Red_Oddity
09-21-2013, 06:44 AM
George RR Martin's Hunter's Run (http://www.georgerrmartin.com/grrm_book/hunters-run/) was a nice little piece of sci-fi as well, and The Expanse series from James SA Corey (http://www.danielabraham.com/books-2/the-expanse/) is a really nice read as well (if you like space opera)

prometheus
09-26-2013, 08:18 AM
Back to Defiance analysis...

Havenīt seen this before, might be interesting to look at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtnPBh7Ih_k

And more insight from the lightwave3d news...
https://www.lightwave3d.com/news/article/meet-the-jedi-knights-of-syfys-defiance/

Even though I have some very harsh critics against the show, and didnīt like it in many aspects, it is always valuable and interesting to find out behind the scenes stuff, and how tools was used, ideas etc.
I didnīt know that it is a two way production in conjuction with the Game.

To bad they had a busy schedule and need to save time, if they had pushed vue a little more, they could have gotten more believable clouds, you got to work those clouds(check trailer of missiles above clouds with typical cloud puffs and shapes not looking good, including general atmosphere beeing to standard type) Thereīs also Some explosions in there that didnīt look convincing either.

Anyway..production insight is very interesting, the show not unfortunatly.

geo_n
09-26-2013, 12:51 PM
Nice find. I'm looking forward to the next season. Good work on building up the character up to the finale.

JohnMarchant
09-26-2013, 01:01 PM
Your not alone prometheus, i tried one episode and turned it off. Boring and formulaic. Im just watching Under The Dome and to be honest the only reason im still watching it is because the wife likes it.

Maybe its me and i expect more, but both of these dont really do anything for me.

jeric_synergy
09-26-2013, 01:14 PM
I think there's been too much poo-poo'ing of Big Ideas in favor of soap opera in the sf narrative world. People LIKE the big ideas.

Personally, I much prefer a fictional exploration of an IDEA, than a fictional exploration of a FICTIONAL character's life.

After all, IDEAS are real: characters are not.

prometheus
09-26-2013, 01:31 PM
I think there's been too much poo-poo'ing of Big Ideas in favor of soap opera in the sf narrative world. People LIKE the big ideas.

Personally, I much prefer a fictional exploration of an IDEA, than a fictional exploration of a FICTIONAL character's life.

After all, IDEAS are real: characters are not.

I kind of feel that this defiance show is quite much about sequences that is recognizable to us in many everyday life, struggles, affairs etc, Unfortunatly I donīt like such approach in a scifi-series that equally
could fit in a everyday life story series sort of, If the story dont raise deeper, bigger or new questions where it make sense to put it in a scifi environment, then it isnīt a good scifi.

Michael

geo_n
09-26-2013, 01:54 PM
Isn't that why the next gen star wars movies were considered bad by sci fi geeks? Because it was mostly about the effects and the story was just about the grand story of the empire and clone wars that the personality of the characters felt shallow and underdeveloped and life, struggles, affairs seemed forced because of the bad script and bad acting?
That's what I read anyway. I liked the new starwars anyway since I have no nostalgic bond with the older films.
Defiance and BSG seem to work on the same formula of integrating real life characterization and situations.

stiff paper
09-26-2013, 02:48 PM
Isn't that why the next gen star wars movies were considered bad by sci fi geeks? Because it was mostly about the effects and the story was just about the grand story of the empire and clone wars that the personality of the characters felt shallow and underdeveloped and life, struggles, affairs seemed forced because of the bad script and bad acting?
Personally, I think they were just scrabbling desperately for something convenient to pin the blame on after their Nerdgod Lucas turned out to have feet of clay and the new movies -into which they'd invested their entire self worth- turned out to be too crappy to even pretend otherwise. I'm perfectly fine with either an ideas or character based approach to storytelling, but what's actually wrong with the Star Wars prequels is that every single thing about them is wrongheaded, ill thought out and hamfisted.


I think there's been too much poo-poo'ing of Big Ideas in favor of soap opera in the sf narrative world.
Storytelling with ideas... yeah, I remember that. It used to be called drama. I agree with your point, but movies and TV aren't going to start doing ideas again any time soon. If you start including ideas then some people might disagree and not like the ideas and then they won't watch and then there's one less person to monetize and... and... and... and.

Also, from the 1980s onwards, soap opera completely replaced traditional drama as a method for storytelling, first on TV and then in movies. I'd like to see less soap opera style characterization all around, but it's much easier to do than actual drama and it's very big business. Soap opera storytelling can't really do ideas, because it's specifically designed only to awful, hackneyed, non-realistic "character" interaction. Up until the end of the 1980s simple minded, easily digestible, easily understood "comic book" and "soap opera" storytelling was pretty universally scorned, but looking around now, it's plain that simple-minded is what most people really prefer. Drama with ideas is hard work, both to make and to consume.

Or, in other words, I think you're going to be S.o.o.L.