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View Full Version : Plant Factory now shipping-from e-onsoftware.



prometheus
09-10-2013, 02:55 PM
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/news/?page=newsletter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8cIjMQJHeQ


What do you think?

Michael

calilifestyle
09-11-2013, 03:14 PM
Insanely expensive first thought . after that i don't really care much for it, I could be wrong . My 3rd thought is will they start breaking Vue X and inf.and force people to buy this so they can customize and create plants in those apps. I was thinking of picking up Vue Complete. But now wounder how broken things will get over at e-onsoftware. They seem to just be stripping items out of their core program and repackaging it.

prometheus
09-11-2013, 03:30 PM
Insanely expensive first thought . after that i don't really care much for it, I could be wrong . My 3rd thought is will they start breaking Vue X and inf.and force people to buy this so they can customize and create plants in those apps. I was thinking of picking up Vue Complete. But now wounder how broken things will get over at e-onsoftware. They seem to just be stripping items out of their core program and repackaging it.

The only other comparable product would bee speedtree cinema(4995$), That is an insanely price ...way beyond what plant factory will cost(1495$), so just picking the most advanced version of plant studio will be much cheaper, then you got all the other lighter versions which are considerably cheeper, studio for 995$, designer 495$f and plant factory artist for 199$.
some additional cost for maintanace service etc.

I think you are wrong about the statement of e-on seemingly just stripping items out of the core program and repacking, plant factory has never been in vue, Itīs a completly new plant generator, carbon scatter is additional ecosystem designed to enhance other software with vegetation specificly for those just in need of that, and e-on is still developing new great stuff it seems in every vue version.

The negative stuff I hear about e-on is the way licensing is handled, and raised pricing etc and some guys not finding vue-xstream production worthy with lightwave, but some do find it worthy(Rob Powers)

Michael

Tranimatronic
09-11-2013, 03:50 PM
I was going to go for this when it was in beta for cheap, but was put off by their EULA. (which I cant find right now, but I remember it being unworkable)
No export to other programs was a killer for me.
I found vueXstream to be unusable too, and abandoned it altogether in favor of zbrush->decimate->lightwave for anything close up enough to need it, and xfrog for anything else
An interesting alternative for me was creation platform's flora, though I have never seen this working.

prometheus
09-11-2013, 03:59 PM
I was going to go for this when it was in beta for cheap, but was put off by their EULA. (which I cant find right now, but I remember it being unworkable)
No export to other programs was a killer for me.
I found vueXstream to be unusable too, and abandoned it altogether in favor of zbrush->decimate->lightwave for anything close up enough to need it, and xfrog for anything else
An interesting alternative for me was creation platform's flora, though I have never seen this working.

I havenīt read their EULA, might be so that they have formed it badly.

VueXstream unusable? I think not, loads of things you can do with it that other software donīt come close to, but that depends on what made it unusable for you..you donīt say what perticular area you find it unusable for?

Rob Powers has given his +1 for vuexstream and lightwave..especially when working with Avatar..and The defiance series and the team behind that seem to have used it, Kelly Myers I think have given his minus for it during the production of Iron sky I think..but I canīt say for sure.

Michael

Tranimatronic
09-11-2013, 04:12 PM
It was the rendertimes that I couldnt work with using xstream. It killed all 'flow' in my workflow. This was years ago now, but the bad feeling never left
I have met others that hated it over the years, others that love it too.
It seems to be one of those softwares that it is easy to get wrong.
We use terragen at work now, which I wouldn't hesitate to recommend

prometheus
09-11-2013, 04:20 PM
It was the rendertimes that I couldnt work with using xstream. It killed all 'flow' in my workflow. This was years ago now, but the bad feeling never left
I have met others that hated it over the years, others that love it too.
It seems to be one of those softwares that it is easy to get wrong.
We use terragen at work now, which I wouldn't hesitate to recommend

Uhh..terragen...it isnīt even workable with the new release said to be speed improved on the previewer, which is about 20 times slower than vue previewer..or something like that.
vue is quite fast considering the complex algorithms for describing the atmospherics and volumetrics, if you just use standard atmosphere model it will come closer to lightwave and also more look like it ..since lightwave
doesnīt have such complex volumetric system for atmospheric.

You also have to be aware of and understand AA quality settings, and need to know what spectral cloud model is the slowest etc, infinite procedural is render clogger...but we donīt have any similar in lighwave anyway, s o you canīt
compare.

Terragen vs..vue, Id go for Vue for speed and features and user experience..Anytime.
I do however find terragen renders quite nice if made by some of the masters, But I think if aiming to be a master of vue ...that will also show in almost equally nice ones.

Depending on atmosphere spectral layers, terrain model type and quality settings, I think renders could turn up like 45 minutes or 1 hours 30 minutes in vue, almost same size of image with hv volumetrics
and volumetric god rays in lightwave, pull in instances and even lower quality terrains, and you will be up there too in render times, and that with lesser realism.
But honestly it is too difficult to compare, since the two software uses completly different approaches for environment stuff.

instances have made lightwave more attractive to use for environmental work, and also using zbrush, It still has a lot left to catch up on with volumetrics and environment atmospherics.

Michael

Tranimatronic
09-11-2013, 04:54 PM
"Terragen vs..vue"
$699 vs $1995 is my biggest obstacle in re-looking at Vue.

I tried to find more on the PlantFactory EULA, but it seems the posts about it are now missing from their website. Google has snippets, but it appears all links now lead back to plantFactory's main page.
Id be interested to hear if you go for this and what you make of it. It really LOOKS nice, but it doesnt work for me if I can't export into Lightwave or Maya.

Tranimatronic
09-11-2013, 05:01 PM
It still has a lot left to catch up on with volumetrics and environment atmospherics.
l

Agreed, and point taken

prometheus
09-11-2013, 05:09 PM
Agreed, and point taken


They should do everything they could to get hold of ogo taiki(not production friendly today,but promising), if possible and develop that, speed enhancements, better ui, and more easier setup of sky/spectral model and it will be closer to a good tool for environments, add vertex mesh edit in layout for terrain editing and some trees and it is getting closer, as it is now though...introducing instances is just a small step, e-on is advancing Even much more than Lw can catch up in terms of environment creation.

Plant factor purchase?, I just wanted to share the news, and find it interesting and cool..but, unless I get a full time job or a lottery win, I have other priorities before going there, including 3d printers, additional software like modo,cinema..or focus on Lw 12 release ..depending on wich one of those are matching my future road map, Getting vue xstream and plant factory would be secondary or third priorities I guess.
I might be able to afford the cheapest versions of plant factory, but I need to get feedback on those, and how much differs from the other versions etc.

Michael

JonW
09-11-2013, 05:23 PM
I find one tends to use the same trees over and over & generally make them do. I made the Gymea Lily & all others from scratch. A lot of software is near impossible once you are outside it's boundary.

prometheus
09-12-2013, 07:39 AM
I find one tends to use the same trees over and over & generally make them do. I made the Gymea Lily & all others from scratch. A lot of software is near impossible once you are outside it's boundary.

I think that using free premade or buying xfrog commercial models would do fine, and even modeling your own, maybe with help of dpont_verdure or tree designer..that will probably be enough for many folks up to letīs say 85% maybe.
But that said, beeing able to freeform trees exactly as you want them by drawing and manipulate them in the way plant factory and speed tree does might be extremly valuable for some people, since it offers a much faster approach
to get it done, and as you want them, speed tree cinema also offers dynamics and dynamic interaction for those who requires some falling or breaking trees like in avatar.

I donīt know if plant factory offers such advanced dynamics like speedtree? I think it only has wind effectors. so the pricing of speedtree cinema might have something to do with speedtree offering that type of dynamics no other
software does?

I figure most guys in here would use trees for archviz or stills, some fewer might need it for environments in animations, and even fewer would really have the need for dynamic trees reacting to hard body impacts etc.

Michael

Tranimatronic
09-12-2013, 12:03 PM
http://algorithmicbotany.org/TreeSketch/
this looks awesome, though I have a vague recollection it was difficult to export.
I think there was a thread here about it a while back. Now version 3. Great if you have an ipad.

prometheus
09-14-2013, 10:09 AM
http://algorithmicbotany.org/TreeSketch/
this looks awesome, though I have a vague recollection it was difficult to export.
I think there was a thread here about it a while back. Now version 3. Great if you have an ipad.

Uhmm---windows version please, donīt want to have to buy Ipad for getting acess to it.

Heres one guy testing the Ipad and lw pipeline.
http://www.artstorm.net/journal/2011/08/treesketch2-ipad-lightwave-3d/

VIDandCGI
09-14-2013, 01:27 PM
Was funny seeing this thread I have recently been playing with version 3 of treesketch its a nice little app. Export is now in FBX and OBJ, textures are output at 2048 or lower.
Also has 2D vector formats and export can now be done via iTunes or DropBox.
Apparently the textures can be upgraded for those needing via an external website.
Very simple to use and a great little scene filler for backgrounds etc.

JonW
09-15-2013, 04:33 PM
Donīt want to have to buy Ipad for getting access to it.

Agree!

XswampyX
09-15-2013, 04:55 PM
But.... it would be cheaper to buy an Ipad and use Treesketch than this software, and you get an Ipad.

prometheus
09-17-2013, 07:40 AM
But.... it would be cheaper to buy an Ipad and use Treesketch than this software, and you get an Ipad.

Isnīt treesketch a free software? and only for ipad , and it isnīt available for any other platform, so I donīt follow you here?

mikala
09-17-2013, 08:09 AM
In other words have something you would actually use all the time and pay the less for than E-on's bloated prices.

Iaian7
04-23-2014, 04:57 PM
Here I am, rudely resurrecting the thread...but there's currently a sale on SpeedTree Studio 7 ($595) and SpeedTree Architect 7 ($345) - https://store.speedtree.com

Comparison chart including Cinema - http://www.speedtree.com/3d-animation-software-comparison.php

Pretty tempting, as I've always been deeply uncomfortable with E-on's business practices and software quality in OSX. So, anyone want to take the bate and discuss a little more? At this point, SpeedTree Studio 7 includes quad geometry, subdivision surfaces, and should integrate well enough with Lightwave (such as motion import, etc.).

Are there any major failings I should be aware of? Alternatives? For the past few years I've been using TreeSketch, NGPlant, and TreesDesigner (though the latest version is unusable for me, v1.0 gave significantly higher quality), and am ready for something more powerful (especially with wind!).

eagleeyed
04-23-2014, 07:20 PM
I recently was in a huge internal debate with myself about purchasing SpeedTree Studio, but in the end purchased TreesDesigner because of the significantly cheaper price and great being all within LightWave.
Since I got the email, I have again had my interest perked.

Can I ask why TreesDesigner is unusable for you? Just want to see your opinion, as I am not up to creating a large amount of trees yet, so want to see what downfalls I may be up for?

I am also against E-ons business practices, and found the software quite unstable anyway, so ruled that off my list pretty quickly. Also was not that impressed with the results.

Keep in mind though, Speedtree's license is pretty restrictive aswell though:

From their forum:

In plain English, these terms prohibit the sale or distribution of anything created with SpeedTree, whether based on our assets or on your own. If/when this policy changes, we’ll try to get the word out far and wide.
http://www.speedtree.com/forum/showthread.php?3196-EULA-question-and-tutorial-request - Post 2

This would not affect me as I am doing my own project, and won't find a need for giving assets to people, however this could affect a lot of others.

Have a lot of thinking to do.

Iaian7
04-23-2014, 08:02 PM
Thanks Eagleeyed! I suspected SpeedTree was restricted in some way, but hadn't fully researched it yet. Still not as draconian as E-on has been in my embittered experience. :D

I used TreesDesigner 1.0 many (many) years ago on various personal projects, and while it required quite a lot of manual input (modelling the target geometry, then finding a seed that gave usable results), the sub patch models were always pretty good (and the only option I knew of at the time that created continuous geometry). Very nice. I had to quit using it when Lightwave moved to universal binary, as the plugin was no longer supported. When Pawel Olas released 1.5 with support for the latest LW Mac version, I purchased it immediately! Unfortunately, the controls no longer work as before; some settings do nothing, and no matter what controls I adjust, the trunk is a complete mess (like rolls of fat everywhere). The previously-finicky controls seem completely out of control now, and the detail settings don't help at all (far too many rings around the trunk, which ends up twisted and contorted, and almost none in the branches, which are always straight and detail-less).

I contacted Pawel Olas directly to ask what was going on, and while he's a great guy and responded quickly, ultimately solved nothing for me. He just said that using the new twigs setting was better for large numbers of branches...and...uh...not much else. Unfortunately in actual usage the trunks are still terrible, the twigs aren't the same level of detail (just two point polygon lines with minimal divisions), and a number of the settings are apparently disconnected (the final tab of settings seems largely superfluous with a whole lot of numbers that impact nothing). Again, this is just my experience in OSX; Windows versions might be fine, or maybe I've just never found the magical combination of settings that actually creates trees...though tellingly, it appears the examples on his website were all created in version 1.0, not 1.5...so I've given up trying to use it.

NGplant is, in many ways, the complete opposite. It's fully procedural (no directing geometry or shape control at all), completely discontinuous (no branch connectivity), and while the controls are often problematic for very specific looks (trying to create an acacia, for example, is an exercise in frustration!), it is largely much more reliable. Also, it's free, so there's little excuse not to try it out! Due to the procedural rules-based design, of course, quickly generating random forest collections is quite fast, albeit still requiring manual input for the seed (interestingly, SpeedTree Cinema includes batch generation support...SpeedTree Studio does not). I've used NGplant on a number of productions in the past few years, but the amount and detail of control is lacking. For example, it's nearly impossible to fine tune how a branch intersects with the trunk (such as specific branching angles independent of global branch directions), and attempting to add certain branch variations actually requires creating separate branch families entirely (impossible to manage efficiently).

Again, these are just my experiences and my opinions. :D Like I said, Pawel is a great guy, I've just not been able to make any use of the plugin since the update myself. NGplant has proven astoundingly good for the price, but lacks detail control and quality. Of course TreeSketch for iPad is shockingly powerful when it comes to directed growth, but the quality took a nose dive in version 3.0; trunks are no longer contiguous!

So...that's why I'm interested in SpeedTree. It's expensive, and my hope is that it's worth it.

eagleeyed
04-23-2014, 09:29 PM
Thanks for the detailed reply.
I am going to give TreesDesigner a decent play with over the next couple of days and see what I can create.
I did not notice the 'roll of fat' symptom you described, however had noticed a couple of other minor issues (root and trunk intersection providing mixed results, texture stretching around the same area).
I just did another quick test, can see what you mean with the 'roll of fat' now. Bummer, not going to unsee that. :P

I have the feeling I will go ahead with SpeedTree, just due to the power of all the different variations.
Especially as all the variations are quite heavily discounted as-well. The price was the only thing putting me off (that and the exchange rate). This has changed things.

Things I learnt from the demo dealing directly with lightwave:
- The fully exported model they bundle with the demo does not work with LightWave (or I could not get it going)
- You can export your creations, however it deletes a large percentage of the polys in the demo. The results when I did this and changed a few settings in the exporter worked well with LightWave.

- All textures do not work straight on export - I found whatever format I used I needed to fix stuff that was wrong or just plain missing (spec, bump/normal etc) From memory, .obj required the least tidy up.
- Could not get animation/wind to work, however I feel this was the demo being overzealous with its limitations.

The demo has the really annoying feature of occasionally not exporting leaves at all as per demo limit, on one case I had to export the model 8 times with no settings changes just to get a test model showing what I wanted in LightWave.
Before I figured out it was the demo not exporting leaves randomly, I was driving myself mad wondering what I had done wrong.

CaptainMarlowe
04-24-2014, 12:12 AM
I am a big fan of tree designer because its inside lightwave, it's inexpensive, and it allows you to sell the trees you created with it. Also for the automatic weight mapping, which is great for further fake wind animation, like showed in this thread :
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?121042-Tutorial-Tree-animation-in-lightwave3d&highlight=wind+trees+leaves

About what you call the roll of fat, have you tried with the "thin" setting in the trunk thick type ? (by default, it's set to thick, and gives the roll of fat look).
What I like with tree designer is the possibility to get a lot of various shapes in minutes, even if it is sometimes a bit unstable on Mac OS X.
Before that, I used Arbaro, but tree designer is much simpler. I will give a look at ngplant. Speedtree is interesting, but too expensive for me. As for E-on, unfortunately, like many others, I had too bad and experience with their customer support to try again. I still have a Vue 9 studio version, mainly for converting and selling some of my stuff on Cornucopia3D, but that's all. The look of their spectral atmospheres is fantastic, and I had Ozone a long time ago. I tried Ozone 6 recently, but it worked with 11.6, but not with 11.6.x, at least on my two macs. I sent request to E-on customer support, but they never considered an answer would be welcome. Same on their forums... So I wouldn't even think about TPF, even if the price tag was more affordable.
A bit OT, but If I were to opt for landscape generator, now, I would use Terragen creative+animation, since the old LW2TG lscript, which allows exporting cameras from lightwave to Terragen still works. The UI is a bit complicated, but not impossible to understand, and the renders are very good. Free TG3 edition allows for some types of height fields exporting directly in .lwo which is also interesting for compositing with shadow catcher, of simple for creating scenes directly in LW from a TG3 generated terrain.

dickbill
04-24-2014, 10:44 AM
Agree with VidandCGI. What I found particularly useful in Vue Infinite (I have VueInfinite 5) was the possibility to export the entire Vue scene: objects, textures, sun light, camera position and perspective, into LW.
Certain, or all, objects in the scene could then be partially re-rendered in LW, but using the Vue output (fast) as a background since the perspective matched. That was an easy way to avoid very long rendering time in LW since large sized outdoor-type scene with lots of volumetric and atmospherics are so complex to render. Something like that:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1576245&user_id=78233&np&np

sadkkf
05-09-2014, 01:33 PM
Just wondering if anyone took advantage of the xfrog sale...full version for $200.

spherical
05-09-2014, 04:19 PM
Did back in December, during that sale. Got it and all the plants. Still downloading the libraries. Have yet to carve out time to work with the plant creator.

rubberman
06-09-2014, 03:09 PM
So which is easiest to use/highest quality/cheapest?

safetyman
06-11-2014, 05:53 AM
If all I did was arch-viz and needed scenes with trees all the time, I might invest in Plant Factory, but $1500 is a lot since I rarely need realistic looking trees/plants. I can get away with using Blender's built-in Sapling tool for trees. It can produce some good results if you use your own textures. The trunk/branches can remain curves even after you commit to the settings (which are numerous). You can save your own presets when you get settings that you like and build future trees based on those settings.

Blender also has a built-in ivy generator and particle grass and once you create some trees, rocks, etc., you can use the particle system to distribute everything.