PDA

View Full Version : HELP! Nevron is dead or have a prefix disability!



jaxtone
09-08-2013, 07:16 AM
I need assistance! I need help! I am going nuts!

I attach five images to describe the problem and hopefully not make any member at the NEWTEKīs discussion forum mad! I am both mad and old, especially when things not are following a flow. Sometimes I guess this software is gonna be my death and sometimes hope for a better future rises somewhere in the horizon, just like when CORE was announced, or maybe not that part of Lightwaveīs history :)

Anyway why in Gods name didnīt anyone at the sales department mentioning that the confusing prefix re-naming procedure had anything to do with re-targeting? I am stucked and nothing happens whatever I change the prefix into. Is there anyone in here more experienced of Genoma, Nevron and LW 11.6 than me that my that can solve a problem like this?

Dexter2999
09-08-2013, 09:03 AM
Maybe the vid from SIGGRAPH can help? Because from the descriptions on your pics you seem to be hitting some fundamental stumbling blocks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wVT_k7ggyo

I hope this does help.

OnlineRender
09-08-2013, 10:07 AM
think of pre_fix as not renaming over the top of original bones

jaxtone
09-08-2013, 10:46 PM
Dexter2999!

A big "thank you" for your effort in helping me! I watched this video before but unfortunally that is just as worthless as all the other support, tutorial and educational videos on the sam theme. The producers have assumed that were all living in a perfect world and that every aspect of character animation this time is calculated to fit into the software developers scenario. The day when every FBX and BVH file has the same amount of parts or the same setup as the Genoma rig isnīt here yet and the moment when every name hierarchy is constructed to fit into the Genoma rig doesnīt exist.

It was said that Nevron easily were designed to handle almost any FBX or BVH file but in my opinion that isnīt true at all. I have contacted support because I need some help, but strange enough Newtek doesnīt answer any questions on this subject... YET!

jaxtone
09-08-2013, 11:00 PM
OnlineRender!

I donīt know what to think about that because the imported BVH file doesnīt seem to have the same name hierarchy as Nevron craves. In the imported BVH rig I use the main control objects name is (Hips_1), and the bones have names like:

LHipJoint_1
GIMBAL_LeftUpLeg_1
LeftUpLeg_1
GIMBAL_LeftLeg_1
LeftLeg_1
GIMBAL_LeftFoot_1

and so on...

The Genoma/Nevron rig has 38 bones and the imported BVH rig has more than 50. In the Genoma/Nevron rigīs thigh bone, upper and lower arms and shin bone are constructed with two bone parts but in the imported BVH rig there is only one bone part in a thigh bone etc. Itīs realistic that of course not the imported BVH or FBX rigs can always be similar to how a Genoma/Nevron rig is constructed. But if this has to mean that the Genoma/Nevron program concept ban every rig thatīs not designed by NEWTEKīs CA team itīs strange, what is the solution? Meaning that if it was said that the Genoma/Nevron concept easily could handle imported rigs Newtek should also have added tutorials, warnings or advice of how to handle scenarios who where not designed in the NEWTEK lab.

lino.grandi
09-09-2013, 02:18 AM
While the names/item in the Nevron Rig are hard coded, of course Motion Capture files/formats can have different names/hierarchies.

That's the reason why it's possible to customize the Source names in the NevronMotion panel.

Of course you need to find out what the best match is among the source and target items.

If you need, you can post the mocap file you're using here, and we can create a specific preset for it.

jaxtone
09-09-2013, 05:12 AM
Hi Lino!

When speaking about mocap files thereīs a minor problem, the BVH file I use is originally from a link I got from you the other week. I just downloaded a bunch of free mocap files there and then tried to use them with the Genoma/Nevron concept. Didnīt have a clue of any technical problems and thought it was just as easy as in your tutorial to make it work. But it wasnīt at all and I still after one week havenīt made any character move even a millimeter with the Genoma/Nevron concept.

In the worst scenario I wanīt you to tell me where can I get access to FBX or BVH files that perfectly fit into the Genoma/Nevron concept rig system? I guess youīve had your reasons creating it in a special way but you canīt have abandoned all resources out there with FBX, BVH files for sale, download or share that doesnīt have the same designed aspects?

Of course I can and probably will post the mocap file here but wouldnīt it be better to learn a starving man how to fish instead of giving him a fish? Itīs just one of many files out there and I guess very few of them are designed to fit in with the Genoma rig! Am I right or have I missed something?

lino.grandi
09-09-2013, 12:11 PM
Hi Lino!

When speaking about mocap files thereīs a minor problem, the BVH file I use is originally from a link I got from you the other week. I just downloaded a bunch of free mocap files there and then tried to use them with the Genoma/Nevron concept. Didnīt have a clue of any technical problems and thought it was just as easy as in your tutorial to make it work. But it wasnīt at all and I still after one week havenīt made any character move even a millimeter with the Genoma/Nevron concept.

Sorry about that! Let's work on it together.



In the worst scenario I wanīt you to tell me where can I get access to FBX or BVH files that perfectly fit into the Genoma/Nevron concept rig system? I guess youīve had your reasons creating it in a special way but you canīt have abandoned all resources out there with FBX, BVH files for sale, download or share that doesnīt have the same designed aspects?

NevronMotion has been created in such a way any motion capture file with an avaialble T Pose can be used with the system.

Mocap comes in different formats, and every format can have its own naming and hierarchical structure (but dealing with human figures, those structures are of course very similar). That's why you can change the names of any source item.

Of course you need to understand which item in the source should control the item in the target rig (the Nevron Rig).

I've made an image showing the standard naming of the NevroMotion rig.

116952

Here you can see at which item in the Nevron Rig the names in the Left column (Target) of the NevronMotion panel are referred to.




Of course I can and probably will post the mocap file here but wouldnīt it be better to learn a starving man how to fish instead of giving him a fish? Itīs just one of many files out there and I guess very few of them are designed to fit in with the Genoma rig! Am I right or have I missed something?

I've taken a look at your file. The main problem with it (more due to how the BVH importer works than something woring you've made) is that the importer itself doesn't create a master Null you can use to scale the rig. You've scaled the "Hips" Null, something that can't be done with this kind of Mocap.

You should create a new Null, select the "Hips" Null and parent it to the Null you've just created.

I've created a LScript for you, that should make the whole operation of importing and editing a BVH file something less problematic (not just for you, but more in general for any NevronMotion user!).

You can use this instead of the standard BVH import option.

You can put your file anywhere (even on your desktop).

To use it, select the Utilities tab and click on "LScript". Then select the script (Import BVH with Master).

The BVH importer panel will open.

My advice is to set the Bone scale factor to somethng like 0.05 and Bone name postfix to 1.

Once you've done selecting your BVH file, hitting ok will create a green Master Null for you (BVH_Mocap_Master). You have to use it to scale/move the BVH motion capture hierarchy around, and adapt it to the rig of your character.

Using the image in this post, you should then be able to match the right source item with the right target.

The next NevronMotion build, available soon, will show the current retargeting situation in a very clear way.

116957

The exclamation mark next to an item name reveals a problem with that item (an item with that name is probably not present in the scene).

The image I posted shows what happens in you scene.

We have a problem with Spine2_1 and Head_Top_End_1 (they're not present in this particular BVH). In this case we can disable Head_Top_End_1 retargeting. Or rename it to Head_END_1 (that's the name in the BVH).

About the Spine, we need to choose which of the Nevron Rig Spine bones we want to retarget to the (only) 2 spine bone available in the BVH rig.

In this case, I would target LW_Rig:Spine (the one in the Nevron Rig) to Spine_1 in the BVH. And LW_Rig:Spine2 in the Nevron Rig to Spine1_1 in the BVH rig.

You can turn off retargeting for LW_Rig:Spine1, LW_Rig:Spine2 and LW_Rig:Spine3 .

This will solve the situation.

We also need to target the hands to the right BVH bone (GIMBAL_LeftHandThumb1_1 and GIMBAL_RightHandThumb1_1 are not present in the scene).

We need to replace them with LeftFingerBase_1 and RightFingerBase_1 (which in this particular BVH rig are the closest to be considered hand joints).

The final situation should look like this:

116958

Now you should be able to correctly retarget your character.

Please let me know if something is not clear.

P.S.

I was about to make a video explaining all this, but then decided that this post could have been faster. Just let me know if you think a video is still needed!

lino.grandi
09-09-2013, 12:24 PM
I've saved a preset that should work with this kind of BVH file.

Unzip it and put it in:

C:\Users\PC\.NewTek\LightWave\11.6\ NevronMotionPresets

(the path of course may be different depending on your user name)

Please let me know if this helps.

jaxtone
09-09-2013, 12:30 PM
Well Lino!

I really appreciate your effort in helping me and I have to reveal that even if I thought I got every aspect of your latest information Iīll have to read it a couple of times before I get back to you. But of course a tutorial video is a good companion, not only for me but all upcoming Lightwave customers with the same handicap like myself. I wouldnīt call myself an idiot but if thereīs some kind of dyslexia connected to scripts and coding and CA rigs I definitely got it. This is probably caused by too many pointless tries with the old LW CA system and short customer deadlines and might even just be some kind of a nervous matter :)

Iīll read this a couple of times andīll get back to you as soon as possible!

Regards
Jack

jaxtone
09-11-2013, 03:08 PM
Hi Lino!

It seems like the compressed rar file you sent me miss some very important information. Please see the attached image! I canīt get any further without this information.

Jack

lino.grandi
09-12-2013, 02:31 AM
I've saved a preset that should work with this kind of BVH file.

Unzip it and put it in:

C:\Users\PC\.NewTek\LightWave\11.6\ NevronMotionPresets

(the path of course may of be different depending on your user name)

Please let me know if this helps.


Hi Lino!

It seems like the compressed rar file you sent me miss some very important information. Please see the attached image! I canīt get any further without this information.

Jack

Nothing is missing....please follow the steps I posted in this very same thread (I quoted the steps in this message as well).

jaxtone
09-12-2013, 02:57 AM
No Lino! Nothing at all happens when I place the file you sent in this folder: "C:\Users\Jack\NewTek\LightWave\11.6\ NevronMotionPresets" That folder is totally empty, contains nothing at all.

All my Nevron Presets are located at "C:/ProgramFiles/NewTek/Lightwave11.6/Support/genoma/ComplexRigs/Bipeds" and if I put your file without extension there nothing at all happens. See the attached image cause I canīt find a new rig anywhere!

My first though were that your new file without file extension used another of the rigs object files but since nothing at all changes I need you to explain how and why nothing have changed! Please tell me what name the new rig are supposed to have and what it are supposed to look like cause here nothing new has happen.

Jack

lino.grandi
09-12-2013, 03:05 AM
What I sent you is NOT a Genoma preset. Is a Retargeting Preset for NevronMotion. That's why you should put it in the folder I specified in my post.
Once you copy the file and open NevronMotion, you can then access the RETARGETING preset from the Presets list.


Your screen-grab shows that you wanted to copy the file in the Genoma Preset folder. That's wrong, because that's not a Genoma Preset. ;)

jaxtone
09-12-2013, 03:10 AM
Oh, sorry! My bad! Sorry again! Thankīs for having patience!

Just a question, wasnīt your idea about a video tutorial on this issue a very smart solution?

Jack

lino.grandi
09-12-2013, 04:13 AM
Oh, sorry! My bad! Sorry again! Thankīs for having patience!

Just a question, wasnīt your idea about a video tutorial on this issue a very smart solution?

Jack

Both NevronMotion and the Genoma Preset have been updated. Any video will be produced when the next build of NevronMotion will be released (which should happen soon). ;)

jaxtone
09-12-2013, 04:42 AM
Great to hear that!

Sometimes itīs possible that it looks like I forgot that Nevron isnīt in itīs final state and as you can see I am not either in my final state when it comes to CA!

I really hope that Lightwave more people will discover the positive parts in Lightwave and compared to older versions you guys are definitely on the right track. The more the merrier and I guess that NEWTEK wouldnīt mind being more profitable in competition with Autodesk or other competitors out there.

Jack

SPICE
09-12-2013, 11:26 PM
I tried it with all three kinds of BVH Files.. MBuilder, DAZ & MAX
All files looks fine in BVHViewer1.0 and in POSER the DAZ FILES works too

In LW ... Hmmm! (http://www.frederik-ehlers.de/fe/bilder/BVHimport.jpg)

What did I miss?

CaptainMarlowe
09-12-2013, 11:35 PM
Have you check that the bones naming of the preset was identical of the bah bones name ? If it's not the case, you have to assign the target bones manually with the getsell function (especially with daz motion files)
Else, is it the genoma nevron motion skeleton or the layout neuron motion skeleton ? In the second case, you have to activate all the bones once you have finished posing them (before importing the bvh). There is a lscript in the nevron motion folder to activate them quickly.

jaxtone
09-13-2013, 01:36 AM
Lino! BeeVee! Anyone!


I still canīt make it work, all my characters donīt give a damn about any scripts, plugins, Genoma or Nevron connections. This is just getting more and more complicated and I feel like the interest is very low. But if I try hundred times without succeding when trying to reach at least one moving limb from my characters with a software module that are said to be easy to use it might be understandable that this guy even more feels like a total idiot.

I attach a file for you to examine and maybe come up with an explanation easy enough to understand and preferably a nice and functional tutorial step by step of how you or anyone else have succeeded in giving this 3D-character even a single movement.

I still donīt have a clue about the prefix procedure... which name is the one I have to use as a prefix? Is it "BVH Mocap MAster" or is it "Hips_1"? Non of them work so if you have other alternatives please explain what the logic between this routine shall be to make it functional?

Regards Jack

BeeVee
09-13-2013, 04:15 AM
Type _1 into the NevronMotion Text box, then use the Source Modifier dropdown to Add Suffix (to make sure the Nevron rig has the same names as your mocap rig. You can see why I said to use _1 as a suffix if you select one of the bones in the mocap). Untick all the Retarget items that have an ! in front of them in the Source column, then hit Retarget. You will see that it works, but that you need to correct the skeleton at frame 0.

B